PDA

View Full Version : Modafinil/Smart Drugs



grizzleb
21-10-2009, 07:28 PM
Been reading about these recently, was thinking about getting them for some 'extra help' when studying for exams.

Anyone ever tried them? Anybody think it's wrong to use such drugs?

HMGovt
22-10-2009, 03:05 PM
i dabbled with gingko, piracetam, vasopressin and procaine just before and after my finals. can't say it made much difference.

things seem to have moved on, Get Smart sounds effective. I recommended to a friend recently who ordered some - yet to hear how it's going

http://www.wired.com/reviews/product/pr_studydrugs

sufi
22-10-2009, 03:54 PM
beta blockers for the nerves, if you can get em
highly recommended

vimothy
22-10-2009, 03:54 PM
Might have a go with these at some point. Why not?

4linehaiku
22-10-2009, 04:14 PM
Uni acquaintance of mine had one of these completely fictitious spoilt-brat American 'disorders' that got her a prescription for Adderall in the US. I am assured that it is "like Ritalin but like, totally way better". Turned her into a fucking zombie every exam period / assignment deadline / etc, but seemed to do the trick as I think she got a first in the end. I recall her crushing them up and snorting them which does rather undermine any claims of legitimate medical use.
A friend tried them once and wrote an essay for like 12 hours straight right through the night, no breaks, no distractions, no tiredness. Just pure chemical focus. Sounded pretty effective.

Actually I just looked up Modafinil and I guess it's a a lot less extreme. Same basic idea though, chemical mental performance enhancement.
Probably a bad idea all in all though, not advocating it etc etc.

grizzleb
22-10-2009, 04:25 PM
My attitude is basically that of 'fuck it', it's probably stupid and probably more than not a placrbo effect - but placebos work! I take drugs for everything else, why not for study?

mixed_biscuits
22-10-2009, 04:25 PM
I have used a brain-training game that has been used to treat ADD in children - nothing to ingest yet effective nonetheless.

grizzleb
22-10-2009, 04:32 PM
I have used a brain-training game that has been used to treat ADD in children - nothing to ingest yet effective nonetheless.That sounds good, my attention span has been wracked by years of internet abuse and smoking weed. Any info? haha

mixed_biscuits
22-10-2009, 04:36 PM
<div id="cf_wd_point_5"></div><script type="text/javascript" src="http://cognitivefun.net/wloader/js/5"></script>

Click on it to play.

You press left or right if the sound or image matches that shown two rounds previously.

viktorvaughn
22-10-2009, 04:43 PM
I take drugs for everything else, why not for study?

Haha good line.

Mr. Tea
22-10-2009, 05:16 PM
Uni acquaintance of mine had one of these completely fictitious spoilt-brat American 'disorders' that got her a prescription for Adderall in the US. I am assured that it is "like Ritalin but like, totally way better". Turned her into a fucking zombie every exam period / assignment deadline / etc, but seemed to do the trick as I think she got a first in the end. I recall her crushing them up and snorting them which does rather undermine any claims of legitimate medical use.
A friend tried them once and wrote an essay for like 12 hours straight right through the night, no breaks, no distractions, no tiredness. Just pure chemical focus. Sounded pretty effective.

Adderall is literally just speed, there's nothing remotely 'smart' about. Pretty effective though, I'd have thought. Sounds like your friend was lucky - I've heard of other people using speed to stay up and write essays, and at the time they're like "Oh my god, this is amazing, I'm on fire here, this is the best stuff I've ever written!" and then looked at it the next day after they've come down and slept a bit and it's actually just nonsense.



Actually I just looked up Modafinil and I guess it's a a lot less extreme. Same basic idea though, chemical mental performance enhancement.
Probably a bad idea all in all though, not advocating it etc etc.

I think Modafinil is fairly mild, it's meant to have fewer side-effects than caffeine. A mate of mine uses it to perk herself up at work when she's got a hangover, she swears by the stuff.

4linehaiku
22-10-2009, 06:06 PM
Yeah I slightly misjudged the brief with that contribution. Apologies. Maybe I need more Omega 3?

4linehaiku
22-10-2009, 06:07 PM
Oh and also...


Adderall is literally just speed, there's nothing remotely 'smart' about. Pretty effective though, I'd have thought. Sounds like your friend was lucky - I've heard of other people using speed to stay up and write essays, and at the time they're like "Oh my god, this is amazing, I'm on fire here, this is the best stuff I've ever written!" and then looked at it the next day after they've come down and slept a bit and it's actually just nonsense.

http://m.assetbar.com/achewood/autaux?b=M&#37;5ea11f09b8576e606bcb5038dfdb92fb821&u=http%3A%2F%2Fachewood.com%2Fcomic.php%3Fdate%3D0 9022003

Pestario
23-10-2009, 01:32 PM
procaine

sounds like cocaine marketed for PRO G4MERS

like this razor:

http://www.techdigest.tv/gillette-gamer-razor.jpg

oblioblioblio
23-10-2009, 01:37 PM
I have used to a reasonable degree piracetam, centrophenoxine and hydergine. as well as other things in this area like ginkgo, and obviously tea and tobacco (though these last ones are probably not so worthy of mention).

I used the nootropics whilst studying for some exams but it was a last ditch attempt to learn stuff which I had being paying zero attention to all year and also had very little interest in. in this situation they substances were the opposite of useful.

I have had some better effects from using them to understand things which I already have a reasonble grasp of, and that I am not under ridiculous time pressure to understand. Used in the right doses (for me, quite low.. esp w/ hydergine (and this one I do not use so often)), I feel they can enhance my capacity for learning, my excitement for engaging with certain kinds of material and some other things.

I do not feel 100% comfortable taking them though. There has been very little scientific research, and also I thinkk they benefit from repeated expsoure, rather than just once off dosages, and I am quite uncomfortable altering my brain chemistry like this, even though the substances are very non toxic.

Also I had an incident on a plane that was not fun. piracetam + high altitude is a very unhealthy mix it would seem.

I think Albert Hofman was a big fan of hydergine.

oblioblioblio
23-10-2009, 01:41 PM
ooh, also these substances can make me less desirous of nicotine and to a lesser extent caffeine. i think they play around with similar brain receptors to the ones that nicotine do (acetylcholine). I am more likely to be irritable when using piracetam et al I find.

I don't think there is too much to loose from doing a little trial run to see if it fits your personal chemistry/lifestyle.

There are some useful resources around on the internet I think.

Mr. Tea
23-10-2009, 02:40 PM
If someone wants a pleasant, energising high that's not too 'wired'-feeling they could do worse than try (a moderate dose of) 4-fluoroamphetamine (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/4_fluoroamphetamine/4_fluoroamphetamine.shtml). Cheap and legal, too.

scottdisco
23-10-2009, 05:04 PM
this bloke (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200911/brave-thinkers2/13) is interesting

nomadthethird
23-10-2009, 09:02 PM
this bloke (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200911/brave-thinkers2/13) is interesting

Very interesting...I would agree with this guy if we lived in an alternate universe where long-term recreational amphetamine use wasn't associated with so many horrible, detrimental effects on health.

1) high BP

2) increased risk of heart attack

3) increased risk of stroke

4) liver damage

5) cognitive side-effects/deficits

6) decreased immune response

7) increased risk of hepatitis infection

Believe me, if I could get back the brain cells that meth and adderall stole from me, I'd happily give back every "good" paper I ever wrote on it.

I'd be reeeally careful messing with medical grade fluoroamphetamines...at least if you do that, get a digital scale that weighs to at least the hundredth place and be precise about your dose.

mixed_biscuits
23-10-2009, 09:38 PM
I've experimented recently with overwork.

A few months ago, I decided to test how much sustained (ie. no breaks of greater than 30 seconds), serious thinking I could do: I completed about 3000 grammar problems over two days and then a string of Maths puzzles on the third. Result: a very odd feeling in the top of my head, difficulty in walking upright (ie. I was tending to tilt to one side), nausea when having to process anything even vaguely cerebral for two days afterwards (reading, even watching the telly) and slightly garbled speech. Moral of the story: don't do it again.

A couple of days ago, I tried to test the limits of memorisation on one of those spaced repetition things. 2000 words repped over two days (ie. speeded forced recall). Towards the end of the second round of reps on the second day I was feeling distinctly agitated and it felt like my brain was attempting to escape. Immediately afterwards: the same odd feeling in the top of my head, language incomprehensibilities (slight babbling), bouts of dizziness...BUT, in the evening, improved performance on memory game and more lucid thinking. Also, seem to have memorised about 1400 of the words. Conclusion: no bloody idea.

nomadthethird
23-10-2009, 09:59 PM
I've experimented recently with overwork.

A few months ago, I decided to test how much sustained (ie. no breaks of greater than 30 seconds), serious thinking I could do: I completed about 3000 grammar problems over two days and then a string of Maths puzzles on the third. Result: a very odd feeling in the top of my head, difficulty in walking upright (ie. I was tending to tilt to one side), nausea when having to process anything even vaguely cerebral for two days afterwards (reading, even watching the telly) and slightly garbled speech. Moral of the story: don't do it again.

A couple of days ago, I tried to test the limits of memorisation on one of those spaced repetition things. 2000 words repped over two days (ie. speeded forced recall). Towards the end of the second round of reps on the second day I was feeling distinctly agitated and it felt like my brain was attempting to escape. Immediately afterwards: the same odd feeling in the top of my head, language incomprehensibilities (slight babbling), bouts of dizziness...BUT, in the evening, improved performance on memory game and more lucid thinking. Also, seem to have memorised about 1400 of the words. Conclusion: no bloody idea.

Totally OT but I notice this exact same thing, and I'm definitely noticing it this weekend (I'm procrastinating like crazy--have 70 stoichiometry calculations to do by Monday, a chem exam on Monday to study for, a chemistry pre-lab assignment due on Wednesday, a 15 page research paper to write by Thursday, a bio lab quiz and written assignment, a bio exam on Friday on Mendelian genetics, mitosis, and meoisis, and miscellaneous other assignments that are going to have to fall by the wayside.)

What I'm finding, and I've always found, is that in situations where I flood my brain with information, I switch back and forth between moments of a feeling sort of like nausea and intense confusion, then moments of clarity when things come together and make sense, then back to the nausea.

At the end of the day here, I have the syndrome you're describing up there. You could call it "overload syndrome". But when things settle down and I go a weekend without having much work, rest a while, I notice a marked improvement in my ability to figure out difficult problems or memorize things or focus intently, etc.

grizzleb
23-10-2009, 10:52 PM
I think you can definitely change your brain states simply by the quantity/type of things you put in it. It doesn't sound as crazy as what nomad is chatting, but times when I would spend a whole weekend reading the same book, and find it starts to seep into your thoughts, and my internal monologue starts to sound a bit like the authors and stuff...Different with heavily abstract stuff like scientific shit etc though.

edit: got some of these beests ordered up, will report back.

mixed_biscuits
23-10-2009, 11:19 PM
What I'm finding, and I've always found, is that in situations where I flood my brain with information, I switch back and forth between moments of a feeling sort of like nausea and intense confusion, then moments of clarity when things come together and make sense, then back to the nausea.

It's bizarre isn't it, I wonder what's 'really' going on.

I also wonder whether the brain has to be pushed to a point at which it starts 'failing' in order to bring about the changes you report (parallel to weight training?). btw the game I posted up-thread was first used by those researchers as part of a PhD thesis on cerebral 'overheating'; the idea behind it is that it pushes at the very limits of one's powers of memory and concentration.

scottdisco
23-10-2009, 11:21 PM
Very interesting...I would agree with this guy if we lived in an alternate universe where long-term recreational amphetamine use wasn't associated with so many horrible, detrimental effects on health.

1) high BP

2) increased risk of heart attack

3) increased risk of stroke

4) liver damage

5) cognitive side-effects/deficits

6) decreased immune response

7) increased risk of hepatitis infection

Believe me, if I could get back the brain cells that meth and adderall stole from me, I'd happily give back every "good" paper I ever wrote on it.

I'd be reeeally careful messing with medical grade fluoroamphetamines...at least if you do that, get a digital scale that weighs to at least the hundredth place and be precise about your dose.

cheers Nomad, i trust you over the Atlantic any day, your post is going on my blog!!

Mr. Tea
24-10-2009, 09:30 AM
I'd be reeeally careful messing with medical grade fluoroamphetamines...at least if you do that, get a digital scale that weighs to at least the hundredth place and be precise about your dose.

Well I'm not studying for exams at the moment or trying to bust my balls on cognition tests, so I tried it for the sake of trying it, really. It seemed less edgy than most kinds of speed, anyway. Clearly a sustained amphetamine habit is not recommended unless you're either Hunter S. Thompson or Paul Erdos. Also I just guestimated a reasonable (informed) dose and managed not to end up looking like a Face Of Meth. Any more than I do anyway, at least.

scottdisco
24-10-2009, 09:51 AM
Well I'm not studying for exams at the moment or trying to bust my balls on cognition tests, so I tried it for the sake of trying it, really. It seemed less edgy than most kinds of speed, anyway. Clearly a sustained amphetamine habit is not recommedned unless you're either Hunter S. Thompson or Paul Erdos.

Tea edges ahead of Swears in my and Luka's Greatest Englishman Poll for his dogged attitude toward pursuing pharmacological enlightenment a la the Englishmen of old who climbed dangerous mountains 'because they are there'.

bravo Tea!
:p

nomadthethird
24-10-2009, 05:59 PM
Well I'm not studying for exams at the moment or trying to bust my balls on cognition tests, so I tried it for the sake of trying it, really. It seemed less edgy than most kinds of speed, anyway. Clearly a sustained amphetamine habit is not recommended unless you're either Hunter S. Thompson or Paul Erdos. Also I just guestimated a reasonable (informed) dose and managed not to end up looking like a Face Of Meth. Any more than I do anyway, at least.

Right, I'm just saying, there are people out there who don't understand designer drugs, they'd eyeball what looks like a good amount of meth and snort a huge line of it or whatever, thinking it's like other amphetamines in concentration, which (being medical grade), it's probably not. It's potentially much more pure. So I'm just saying, be careful with your dose.

Not you, I realize you can probably eyeball 120 mg, but some people can't.

mixed_biscuits
26-10-2009, 12:39 PM
Lifting the lid on the smart drugs industry:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/o3VfRgIc3wc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/o3VfRgIc3wc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

four_five_one
23-02-2010, 11:02 PM
I bought some modafinil a couple of months ago (probably after reading this thread actually). Here's the diary I wrote while on it:


body weight 67kg
drugs used: provigil, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, xylometazoline
(plus pyriodoxine hci, base melissa officinalis, bacopa monniera,
taurine, astaxanthin, passion flower[s] etc)

dropped some ALCAR abt 3 pm thought it would potentiate the stuff and
then the anxiety set in (as had an accidental really strong coffee
which i definitely didn't need); but at the same time proper buzzing
due to the extra release of dopamine & n/rp but w/o the warm blanket
of serotonin and the calming efx of gaba to straighten out the path.
so chopped up some l-theanine and mainlined it to give gaba boost,
anxiety lessened but killed the good fx of the modafinil too, now just
feel flat and a bit tired. experiencing major dissatisfaction w/my
life decisions: a dysphoria i'm usually capable of producing
endogenously but this time needed a little extra help. from too buzzed
to read > to nr exhaustion.

(tho i must say i often find benzos & theanine etc often have a
paradoxical fxt w/ me sometimes making me more anxious [not
physically] but mentally because everything is superflat and i feel a
bit impaired, so perhaps not a fair test. maybe just need to get the
dose right. perhaps 5htp would've been a better bet??? plus who knows
what the bacopa is adding to the mix here, that's the unknown quantity
innit)

Did nothing for me at all. Too much anxiety (which you're not supposed to get), although maybe mine is a bad batch, might have caffeine in it too. Definitely modafinil though, there's a particular metabolite smell when you urinate. Anyway, even if we subtract the anxiety, it is hard to think whilst on it, I couldn't remember a lot of words and found it hard to finish stuff I was writing (creativity seems to disappear). It does work in terms of relieving tiredness though, definitely. Much more effective than caffeine in that respect. I would probably use it for that, if it weren't for the anxiety. I've only used it so far when I haven't sleep for a day or so, because I thought that would be a proper test of it.

Anyway, most of these nootropics are expensive and make no significant difference, and if they do affect you, it's as likely to be negative as positive. The ones I've tried and seem to have positive effects tend to be the cheaper ones anyway, I'd probably recommend: Turmeric, L-Theanine, Gingko and Bacopa. That's what I take regularly. But to be honest you've have a more positive net effect paying more attention to diet/exercise, drinking less etc, meditation etc. Obviously I'd prefer to pay for an effective pill instead of doing all that, but there just isn't one yet... (at least one that's powerful enough but doesn't have deleterious side fx, speed etc). As far as vitamins and stuff, Vitamin D is the only one I take daily, and I highly recommend it. Plus fish-oil obviously.

Mr. Tea
24-02-2010, 11:17 AM
Oblimey...I guess the Dissensus/Erowid crossover had to happen eventually.

you
31-08-2010, 07:34 PM
Anyone done anymore or have any other suggestions??

jojboli
18-09-2010, 04:43 PM
Don't you find interesting how in late capitalism drug abuse focus shifts from "getting wasted", "chilling" etc. towards "getting concentrated", "perform better" etc?

CHAOTROPIC
18-09-2010, 06:03 PM
Don't you find interesting how in late capitalism drug abuse focus shifts from "getting wasted", "chilling" etc. towards "getting concentrated", "perform better" etc?

My experience of late capitalist squat parties would contradict this :eek:

Mods & skins bombed uppers, hippies dope themselves into gentleness with downers, businessmen bond on ego-uppers but also drink themselves into catatonia at the weekends, clubbers cane meth until they grind teeth to powder & final-year med students spend half the time drunk & the other half bombing speed to handle the revision. Horses for courses & always has been. Don't think it's symptomatic of the age.

I'm speaking as a speed freak of course.

Mr. Tea
19-09-2010, 07:47 PM
Don't you find interesting how in late capitalism drug abuse focus shifts from "getting wasted", "chilling" etc. towards "getting concentrated", "perform better" etc?

Not sure I know any late capitalists. Most of the people I know love getting a bit (or a lot) mashed now and then, though.

Dr Awesome
19-09-2010, 09:09 PM
How do you know it's late Capitalism anyway?
More importantly, who's going to write Decline and Fall?
Hawking?

Mr. Tea
19-09-2010, 09:30 PM
I waited three hours for Capitalism the other night and the cunt didn't even show up.

Dr Awesome
19-09-2010, 09:31 PM
I waited three hours for Capitalism the other night and the cunt didn't even show up.

Yeah, I hear Socialism's always punctual however.

Mr. Tea
19-09-2010, 09:43 PM
Yeah, I hear Socialism's always punctual however.

Communism is always on time. Early, even. And anyone who says otherwise is invited to reconsider from the comfort of a Siberian labour colony.

Bangpuss
29-09-2010, 02:15 PM
I have some Modafinil left over from my exams in June. Would happily swap them for something else... Let me know.

pattycakes
29-09-2010, 08:40 PM
how about 3 magic beans?

Bangpuss
30-09-2010, 09:38 AM
How about one magic bean per 2 modafinil?

you
20-02-2012, 01:22 AM
bump - any adderall fans in the house?

CHAOTROPIC
20-02-2012, 01:26 AM
bump - any adderall fans in the house?

I was thinking of getting some of that just to see what it's like - it's pure amphetamine isn't it? Can you buy in online reliably?

But I gave up speed a month ago so I probably shouldn't ...

slowtrain
20-02-2012, 04:50 AM
I don't think you can get adderall in NZ (someone please prove me wrong?)

but that reminds I want to try some ritalin for bashing out this weeks essssay

luka
20-02-2012, 08:43 AM
Don't you find interesting how in late capitalism drug abuse focus shifts from "getting wasted", "chilling" etc. towards "getting concentrated", "perform better" etc?

bruce sterling said this would happen but i dont think it has. unless you count coffee. but thats not very new.

Mr. Tea
20-02-2012, 09:37 AM
It's funny, when coffee first kicked off in England in the 17th century it was the drink/drug of choice for all kinds of radicals, intellectuals, political reformers, religious dissidents and so on. Like speed for the Beats and weed/acid for the hippies. You had these clubs and informal debating societies that formed in coffee shops, I guess the forerunners of think tanks and pressure groups.

Get many radicals in your cafe, luka?

luka
20-02-2012, 09:50 AM
quite the opposite. we have the most reactionary clientele in australia. i do have one communist but otherwise certainly not. its very good for me. its easy to think the whole world thinks like you do unless youre in these kinds of enviroments.

luka
20-02-2012, 09:51 AM
its a wonderful talking drug though and i lvoe talking. conversation is easily my favourite thing. it always has been.

you
20-02-2012, 09:56 AM
I was thinking of getting some of that just to see what it's like - it's pure amphetamine isn't it? Can you buy in online reliably?

But I gave up speed a month ago so I probably shouldn't ...

well I have found some sites online selling it, I'd quite like to get some tbh.

It's a mix of 4 psychoactive amp salts - a girl gave me some a while back and I just had such a clear head on the 'come-down' bit - I'd like to mix it with libraries.

feel free to pm me a reliable online source...

Mr. Tea
20-02-2012, 11:20 AM
Doesn't sound as good as pink Mitzubishis, to be honest....

Bangpuss
20-02-2012, 01:58 PM
Think I still have some Modafinil from when I was taking exams. That's not speed though. More like a mix between coffee and head-strengthener.

Mr. Tea
20-02-2012, 07:37 PM
head-strengthener.

You what? Do you mean coke?

Dr Awesome
20-02-2012, 08:12 PM
You what? Do you mean coke?

Epoxy Resin and dynabolts the kids use nowadays.

Schedule A strengtheners.

Bangpuss
20-02-2012, 08:31 PM
You what? Do you mean coke?

No. There is no real word to describe a drug that makes you able to concentrate better that doesn't make you grind your teeth (other than 'smart drug', which is kind of misleading since I don't thinker they actually make you smarter per se), which is what I mean by 'head strengthener'.


Head strengthener. n. Substance which helps put one's noggin to better use as a retainer of information

Mr. Tea
20-02-2012, 08:37 PM
Oh, it sounded like a play on being 'headstrong', which I thought was fairly apt for the old marching powder.

Mr. Tea
20-02-2012, 08:39 PM
The original and best 'smart drug':

http://content8.flixster.com/question/64/63/70/6463706_std.jpg


It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.