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zhao
10-12-2009, 08:12 AM
2009 Uganda bill which might become law:

life imprisonment for being gay
death penalty for being gay and HIV positive
3 years imprisonment for knowing a gay and not reporting for prosecution

directly related to influential US conservatives and fundamental Christians.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908//vp/34337416#34337247

john eden
10-12-2009, 09:18 AM
Well hopefully it won't become law but it has to be said that this isn't far off what happens to gay people in Uganda already.

The one gay bloke I met when I was out there was very secretive and was making strenuous efforts to get out as soon as possible.

Similarly - the role of churches in giving aid which had conditions about promoting abstinence rather than condoms is a de facto death sentence for millions of people.

scottdisco
10-12-2009, 10:26 AM
:eek:

tragically, this has been coming i think, it's like the end game and forseeable consequence of codifying what has been normal practice, w a few egregious extras bolted on (not that i have John's on the ground experience, interesting stuff there mate).

Museveni has been making homophobic and inciteful statements for years, his authorities have been harassing and detaining LGBTQ activists on a whim for years, the press have been railing against the sin of sodomy for years, and so on/forth.

got to say the current HIV/AIDS bill they're trying to get through in Kampala is similarly appalling; that bill, in fact, is deadly.

opens up vital questions wrt bigots in powerful countries influencing the agenda of weaker states, eg Tehran's man in Kabul who was directly responsible for that 'rape law' bill (among other components) they tried to shove through (which was discredited and defeated in its original incarnation thanks to the actions of Afghani civil society, of course).

no doubt we shall see more and more of this sort of thing as the world becomes ever 'smaller'..

Mr. Tea
10-12-2009, 11:23 AM
Just really depressing - even the bad excuse that it's an attempt to stop HIV/Aids is transparently rubbish, as the vast majority of HIV carriers in Africa are heterosexual (and more than half are women, IIRC).

There's been some talk of threatening Uganda with expulsion from the Commonwealth - anyone think this'll make a blind bit of difference?

john eden
10-12-2009, 11:46 AM
There's been some talk with threatening Uganda with expulsion from the Commonwealth - anythng think this'll make a blind bit of difference?

It could do, but I imagine the funding from the US is more significant, so I would think Obama's position on the issue would be more crucial.

I daresay there are also people in the political class of Uganda who want independence anyway...

scottdisco
10-12-2009, 12:42 PM
Miliband was asked earlier this year could Britain force Sri Lanka from the Commonwealth temporarily as a gesture.

he told his Tory questioner that, unfortunately, Britain didn't have the numbers behind them to do that at secretariat level.

john eden
10-12-2009, 12:46 PM
Miliband was asked earlier this year could Britain force Sri Lanka from the Commonwealth temporarily as a gesture.

he told his Tory questioner that, unfortunately, Britain didn't have the numbers behind them to do that at secretariat level.

Hmmm and actually now I think about it, this is a very similar issue to what is causing the potenital schism for yer Anglicans, with the African churches threatening to head off into the sunset over gay rights...

mistersloane
13-12-2009, 11:31 PM
Good piece about this in the Observer today :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/13/death-penalty-uganda-homosexuals

viktorvaughn
14-12-2009, 10:25 AM
bit lame claiming it's a colonial hangover when it's being introduced in 2009 and Uganda was independent is the 60s or am i missing something?

Mr. Tea
14-12-2009, 11:00 AM
This bit is just bizarre:


Lively released a half-hearted condemnation: "It should be no surprise… that modern Ugandans are very unhappy that homosexual political activists from Europe and the US are working aggressively to rehomosexualise their nation."

I must have been off sick the day the rest of the class covered the infamous 'homosexualisation of Uganda' in GCSE History. :confused:

Also, it's unexpected (and heartening) to hear that "the most powerful evangelical in America" has condemned the bill as "unjust, extreme and un-Christian" - especially since hardline evangelists from the US are being blamed in large part for whipping up the bigotry over there.

mistersloane
14-12-2009, 12:37 PM
bit lame claiming it's a colonial hangover when it's being introduced in 2009 and Uganda was independent is the 60s or am i missing something?

I think John had a point about the Anglicans, and I think what the article was trying to say without being able to state it directly is that all of the countries which have / which had a large Anglican missionary infiltration are largely the ones with problems over "homosexualisation". Just cos Uganda achieved independence doesn't mean that the influence of these missionaries isn't still all pervasive, hence the colonial hangover thing.

Mr. Tea
14-12-2009, 12:51 PM
It says in that Observer piece that Uganda has (slightly) more Catholics than Anglicans.

Not that the Catholic church is a great traditional supporter of gay rights either, of course.

mistersloane
14-12-2009, 01:52 PM
It says in that Observer piece that Uganda has (slightly) more Catholics than Anglicans.

Not that the Catholic church is a great traditional supporter of gay rights either, of course.

Yeah, this is definitely Anglican propaganda from the Church of Uganda though.

I was kinda trying to present or think about a unifying theory of why this insanity is happening...not that it's possible!

STN
16-12-2009, 10:02 PM
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=7347&sortBy=2&edition=1&ttl=20091216220114

Um, no.

scottdisco
16-12-2009, 10:08 PM
^ :mad:

not Uganda, but relevant


“Ten young Iranian men, including eight teenagers, are currently awaiting execution for sodomy, and two more are being re-tried on the same capital charge. And, in an exclusive interview with Gay City News, an Iranian student gay rights activist confirmed for the first time the existence of queer organizing on multiple university campuses throughout Iran...Defendants in sodomy cases are denied open trials. Last month, Human Rigths Watch, basing its finding on an Iranian newspaper report, told of the execution of two men for sodomy.

here (http://www.gaycitynews.com/articles/2009/12/11/gay_city_news/news/doc4b2109624f65c652502853.txt)

don_quixote
16-12-2009, 10:12 PM
to be fair sodomy is a sin

it's just the idea of a sin is so fucking outdated and medieval it makes you want to cry that these fucking retards think it matters so much that they would enshrine it in law and kill.

every day i try to homosexualise nations. oh no i don't because it doesn't fucking mean a fucking thing.

you know the whole repressed homosexuality thing? i can't see how it cannot be true. otherwise; why so scared?

Mr. Tea
17-12-2009, 11:36 AM
"If God didn't want people to have bumsex, why did he make arseholes so much fun?"

mistersloane
17-12-2009, 12:49 PM
It's stuff like this that kinda rips me in two : the decadent in me finds that homosexuality and capitalism are being gradually equated perverse and thus pleasurable; the anarchist homosexual in me finds it revolting.

I think we'll see more and more as the century goes on that homosexuality and thus decadence and thus the West become totally enshrined. Sodom and all that.

baboon2004
17-12-2009, 12:55 PM
you know the whole repressed homosexuality thing? i can't see how it cannot be true. otherwise; why so scared?

very true, and of course elements of divide and conquer in there - give the majority a minority group they can endlessly blame/victimise.

Mr. Tea
17-12-2009, 01:44 PM
I'm very impressed that mistersloane can type that clearly with both a decadent and an anarchist homosexual in him at the same time. Top multitasking, sir! :D

Edit: sorry, this probably isn't the ideal thread for dad-joke flippancy.

sufi
17-12-2009, 11:41 PM
Joseph is a 17‑year‑old gay young man from Uganda.

Joseph’s mother died when he was six years old. His father was abducted by Kony rebels shortly afterwards. Although a neighbour looked after him initially, they could not afford to keep him for any length of time and he was left on the streets of Kampala to fend for himself. Joseph’s body is covered in the scars he carries from the numerous times he was caught in a police round up of street children who were taken to the police station and mercilessly beaten. Eventually a kind and generous man took Joseph into his home and helped him to leave the country. Because Joseph looks older than he is, the false passport he used when he entered the UK at fourteen, said that he was eighteen.

When he was fifteen Joseph claimed asylum and was held in a detention centre for over a year while his solicitor tried to prove his age.

Joseph is a brave and resilient young man. Whilst in detention he assisted several other detainees to contact Medical Justice and UKLGIG. Joseph resisted several attempts at deportation by refusing to leave the escort van, refusing to leave the detention centre, climbing onto the roof of the detention centre, being disruptive and having the Captain refuse to take him on a flight.

On 1st August 2007, almost three years after he arrived in the UK, Joseph was deported to Uganda – having been injected in the neck with a strong sedative and being handcuffed for the entire flight.

http://www.uklgig.org.uk/stories.htm
uk on ugandan gays

Mr. Tea
18-12-2009, 12:16 AM
Absolutely fucking disgraceful. And people get so worked up over some MPs with their hand in the petty cash when stuff like this is going on.

john eden
18-12-2009, 12:45 AM
Absolutely fucking disgraceful. And people get so worked up over some MPs with their hand in the petty cash when stuff like this is going on.

whilst they have their hand in the petty cash they aren't concerned about the lives of people in Uganda.

And actually, we are talking about people with significant influence here. They could make a difference but are feathering their own nests instead.

mistersloane
18-12-2009, 10:43 AM
I'm very impressed that mistersloane can type that clearly with both a decadent and an anarchist homosexual in him at the same time. Top multitasking, sir! :D

Edit: sorry, this probably isn't the ideal thread for dad-joke flippancy.

The decadent is neuraesthenic so doesn't move much, and the anarchist is on ketamine, so they don't move around much either.

mistersloane
18-12-2009, 10:46 AM
whilst they have their hand in the petty cash they aren't concerned about the lives of people in Uganda.

And actually, we are talking about people with significant influence here. They could make a difference but are feathering their own nests instead.

And if the bill in Uganda does go through, do you think there will be sanctions? I kinda doubt it, in spite of all of it, homosexuality I think is still deep down viewed as some sort of lifestyle choice.

baboon2004
18-12-2009, 10:49 AM
And if the bill in Uganda does go through, do you think there will be sanctions? I kinda doubt it, in spite of all of it, homosexuality I think is still deep down viewed as some sort of lifestyle choice.

Even if there are sanctions, I guess they'll just be absorbed by the poor as usual...do you think Uganda actually expects sanctions though? There's a lot of hard talk about them not caring:

"James Buturo, Uganda's minister of ethics has become a spokesperson for the legislation and defended last week that Uganda would not 'bend over' for donor aid."

I read those links that Sufi put up - the shameful fact is that the UK government doesn't give a shit either, when it suits them (as always). And I'm not even sure homophobia is a (overwhelming) factor in that - they're getting treated like all other asylum-seekers who fear for their lives. Appallingly.

mistersloane
18-12-2009, 11:02 AM
Even if there are sanctions, I guess they'll just be absorbed by the poor as usual...do you think Uganda actually expects sanctions though?

No, I think it's a sharp move, I don't think any country would introduce sanctions against the genocide of homosexuals. It's sad but I don't think, can't see it happening.

Still, it's nice to know one's place in the world I guess. Hi gypsies! Hi dogs!

scottdisco
18-12-2009, 11:03 AM
nobody sanctions Iran for actually executing men for the crime of, er, loving other men, so, i doubt Kampala is too arsed.

as discussed up-thread, Sri Lanka's end game against the Tigers recently included the killing of thousands upon thousands of civilians in a matter of weeks, as well as summary execution of Tiger detainees.
and they ended up getting praised at the UN for this, because the countries who wanted to try and censure them somehow were outnumbered by more Westphalian-friendly states.

wrt the excellent points John and Sufi raised, on the individual level there are cases of UK MPs - cross-party - supporting the cause of one or two individual failed {sic} asylum seekers who are facing return, and that's excellent, of course we need to applaud that.

but i know of very few MPs - Mark Oaten when he was Home brief for the Lib-Dems at least spoke warmly, although that wasn't hard in comparison to his counterparts at the time who were Blunkett and Davis (a drum i keep banging, i know) - who appear to take a humane overall attitude and question our asylum system in general; there's too many who take a band-aid approach to one or two cases that happen to be in their constituency.

which is great, but more should be done.

anyway, something sloane said up-thread reminded me - a bit - of reading about the family code in Mali; it was sent back to parliament for redrafting at the end of August. let us hope the people who are fighting for this progressive code can get it reinstated and properly on the books there as there's some good stuff in its articles.
anyway. just thought i'd quote something from an openDemocracy piece i recently blogged about


The new Code, which had been under discussion for a decade, does not recognise customary marriage (and instead requires all marriages to be registered with the civic authorities), sets the minimum age of marriage at 18 years and expands inheritance rights for girls. Most important, it provides for equal rights and responsibilities of the spouses and ends the wife’s duty to obey her husband. Hence the dramatic message of the wedding dress.

Opponents have warned that the new provisions would lead to immorality, harm women’s interests, threaten ‘African values’ and result in a loss of cultural identity.

[...]

Globally, there are increasingly visible arguments for equality and justice in the Muslim family using both international human rights language as well as Muslim jurisprudence and Qur’anic interpretations, and demanding that laws be brought into line with social realities. One of the main tactics that the new code’s opponents have used is to dismiss those who seek greater equality for women in the family as ‘westernised’. Both personal actions like Fatoumata’s as well as successful national campaigns like that in Morocco and Turkey show that there is plenty of locally rooted support for family law reform."

[...]

Developments in Mali have been closely watched by rights activists in neighbouring countries. Isatou Touray who works with The Gambian Committee on Traditional Practices (GAMCOTRAP) says “In Mali, the mullahs were able to mobilise the grassroots because they engaged the people - particularly men - at community level, indoctrinating them with patriarchal interpretations of Islam and women's rights. The answer is to focus on the poor and powerless who need the right information to dismantle the shackles of discrimination and violence against women in the name of religion.”

'African values'?

reminds you of Dr Mahathir and his "Asian values" (something his govt was keen to trumpet, and yet - funnily enough - local activists kept calling bullshit at him for it).

scottdisco
18-12-2009, 11:21 AM
I read those links that Sufi put up - the shameful fact is that the UK government doesn't give a shit either, when it suits them (as always). And I'm not even sure homophobia is a (overwhelming) factor in that - they're getting treated like all other asylum-seekers who fear for their lives. Appallingly.

yup.

New Labour can - and must - be criticised about many things but they are not homophobes, they just don't give a shit in general, on the whole. (though of course this is not to deny time-poor, cynical assessment officers may not individually have a casual attitude to claims of homophobic persecution as reason for seeking asylum. and civil servants don't get screened for their social attitudes.)

as Keith Best of the Immigration Advisory Service noted years ago, the govt seemed to have made up its mind to play to the gallery of "Daily Express readers" wrt the asylum seeker issue not too long after assuming power, and it painted itself into that hole years ago, and has not been able to get out since even if it wanted to; the roll call of Home Office secretaries and ministers like O'Brien, Clarke, Reid, all colluding in the general shafting of asylum seekers, is long indeed.

Mr. Tea
18-12-2009, 11:40 AM
The decadent is neuraesthenic so doesn't move much, and the anarchist is on ketamine, so they don't move around much either.

Are you channeling Bill Burroughs today, mistersloane?

Re. the young Ugandan bloke, I don't think there's any particular homophobia on the part of the British authorities, beyond the cavalier indifference towards the severe (and now legally enforced) homophobia he'll experience back in Uganda. The authorities routinely send people back who have good reason to fear for their lives and liberty for all kinds of reasons.

Does anyone know what happened to the young gay Iranian who was trying to stay here? Last I heard he was living in the Netherlands, so he'd managed to avoid repatriation anyway. There was some especially repellant oar-sticking-in by some so-called 'Respect' types over this case, I seem to recall.

Edit: Scott, I think the phrase "failed asylum seekers" is accurate as long as you take it to mean asylum seekers who have been failed by the country where they sought sanctuary from whatever they were fleeing.

mistersloane
18-12-2009, 11:46 AM
Are you channeling Bill Burroughs today, mistersloane?

All day, every day, it's nothin, I do it this on the daily fam!

scottdisco
18-12-2009, 01:59 PM
Edit: Scott, I think the phrase "failed asylum seekers" is accurate as long as you take it to mean asylum seekers who have been failed by the country where they sought sanctuary from whatever they were fleeing.

you are of course right Tea, i just put that {sic} in w respect to anyone who might have called me on it otherwise; think i'm being too even-handed sometimes :)

Mr. Tea
18-12-2009, 02:07 PM
you are of course right Tea, i just put that {sic} in w respect to anyone who might have called me on it otherwise; think i'm being too even-handed sometimes :)

Stop being so unreasonably reasonable! :mad:

scottdisco
18-12-2009, 06:29 PM
:p (with knobs on Tea, with knobs on *)

'Globalizing the culture wars' (http://www.publiceye.org/publications/globalizing-the-culture-wars/index.php) - not read it yet, but looks good, and very on-topic

*
Excuse me Prime Minister, but we do have some lovely jelly in the pantry

scottdisco
19-12-2009, 12:14 AM
i've still not read ^, but here's part of a backgrounder on dude who authored report. touches what we've raised on-thread. sorry for excerpting at length, but it's all good stuff.
(the emboldening is mine.)


Could Rick Warren be the man to stop pending anti-gay legislation in Uganda?

That’s the hope of Rev. Kapya Kaoma, an Episcopalian Priest from Zambia, the author of a new report from Political Research Associates, which traces a wave of homophobia on the African continent to the efforts of conservative evangelical pastors in the US. In a conference call with members of the media today, Kaoma declared that, “The US culture wars are being exported to Africa. They’re having an impact not just in the US, but also amongst African Christians.”

The culture wars Kaoma refers to have been particularly intense within the Anglican communion, his (and, as it happens, my) church. After the election of Gene Robinson, an openly gay priest, to bishop of New Hampshire, a number of bishops moved to “realign” their congregations outside of mainstream Anglican authority. Two new, more conservative Anglican groups have emerged, and some African congregations have aligned with these new groups.

Kaoma argues that, in the mainline US churches, most congregants and pastors are leaning towards progressive Christianity. The more conservative individuals – in the minority – are aligning with the fast-growing churches in Africa. “Conservatives have gone to Africa because they’re going where the numbers are, and because they’re being legitimated by associating themselves with Christians outside the US.”

These conservative pastors, Kaoma argues, “need to demean the leadership of US mainline churches,” and present their views as the legitimate alternative. It’s become common to present the US mainline churches as imperialistic, and to argue that these mainline churches as trying to export non-African values. “Once you appeal to the post-colonial ethos, people are bound to overreact. The entire gay issue has been put into the post-colonial narrative.” Because the issue of gay rights has been turned into a battle about a purported recolonization of the African continent, Kaoma argues, a struggle for gay rights isn’t seen as a human rights issue, but as an attempt to export “un-African” ideas to the African continent.

Uganda has been a particular battleground for this exported culture war. The wife of President Yoweri Museveni, herself an influential MP, is a born-again Christian, and has been instrumental in bringing abstinence-focused anti-AIDS funding to the country. (Helen Epstein’s “God and the Fight Against AIDS” in the New York Review of Books is an excellent introduction to the spread and politicization of evangelical Christianity in Uganda.) And Uganda, bordering on majority Muslim countries, has become a popular venue for evangelical outreach.

[...]

While I strongly agree with Reverend Kaoma, and believe the proposed legislation is abominable, I thought he was putting too much weight on international activists and not enough responsibility on people in Uganda. I asked whether it was fair to offer his interpretation, given that the majority of Sub-Saharan African countries have laws against homosexual activities – was it possible that the law in Uganda was simply a manifestation of public will and mood?

Reverend Kaoma explained that a framing of homosexuality as an attack on the family has worked extremely well in bringing activist anger to the forefront. The combination of a neo-imperial narrative, an international conspiracy and classic “the gays are out to get your children” are collectively changing attitudes on the ground in countries like Uganda, he argues. He points out that, in most countries where homosexual behavior is banned by law, very few people are arrested and prosecuted for violating those laws. He also referenced King Mwanda, a ruler of the Buganda in the 1880s, who many historians believe was gay. “Even Pastor Ssempa himself accepts this part of Ugandan homosexual history,” says Kaoma. “Gays are part and parcel of African life. What’s strange now is using the Christian religion as a foundation for persecution around homosexuality.”

While Kaoma believes that Ugandans are more liberal about homosexuality than the current bill would lead one to believe, he acknowledges that the masses are not speaking out or supporting the bill. “There’s been a call to go door to door and tell people that ‘if you love your child, then fight homosexuality’. There is a petition going around Uganda in rural areas, saying that homosexuals are recruiting young children in the schools, using money from America. The petition says that if the Americans get just get two kids per school, Uganda as we know it is gone.”

Kaoma argues that the authoritarian nature of Ugandan politics is also making it easier to carry out this sort of crusade. In his native Zambia, the Vice President urged the arrest of gays, but there were no arrests. In Ghana and Kenya, church leaders have advocated cutting ties with the Anglican communion over gay issues, but many churches have refused to comply. But in less representative societies, these crusades – with the support of political authority – have a much higher chance of success.

There are brave Ugandans standing up for gay rights. Frank Mugisha, the leader of Sexual Minorities Uganda (which uses the wonderful acronym SMUG), has been a visible opponent of the legislation, despite the fact that he will likely need to leave the country or face arrest if the bill passes. The Dean of the prestigious Makerere University has publicly opposed the legislation. Such support entails serious risks – Kaoma tells us about meeting with SMUG at a hotel in Kampala – a woman attending the meeting, who is lesbian, stepped out of the hotel as was immediately arrested, beaten and had her money stolen by the police. “And there was nothing we could do,” says Kaoma.

Reverend Kaoma spoke about this story in a sad but calm fashion. But he got quite agitated when I asked him about the possibility that the Anglican church – hugely influential in Uganda – would condemn the legislation. “The Archbishop doesn’t want to be seen as interfering. After the bill passes and people are getting killed, then we’ll hear his voice? Our friends are being rounded up because people think the bill has already been passed.”

If the Archbishop of Canterbury and Rick Warren won’t step up, are there other paths to leverage the Ugandan goverment? Sure – there’s always money. Up to 40% of the Uganda government budget comes from aid dollars. Kaoma tells us that Sweden has declared that if Uganda passes this bill, Sweden will sever all ties. It’s unlikely that the US would take nearly such a dramatic step. But Kaoma leaves us with a challenge: “Don’t just condemn Uganda – accept responsibility for helping start this on American soil.”

That’s tricky, of course. Gay rights groups in the US condemning the legislation simply add fuel to the fire for those who argue that homosexuality is a western plot. And that’s why the voice of someone like Pastor Warren could be so powerful in affirming the human rights of GLBT people and condeming this dangerous legislation.

scottdisco
19-12-2009, 12:25 AM
and speaking of dangerous Ugandan Xtians, taking you all the way from, er, circle 7 in Kampala to the very lowest level in the bush


KINSHASA, Dec 18 (Reuters) - The U.N. peacekeeping force in Congo has put its soldiers on high alert after reports that Ugandan rebels are threatening to carry out mass killings of the kind they conducted last Christmas, a spokesman said on Friday.
Ugandan Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) rebels, who murdered over 800 civilians around Christmas and early January last year, have threatened a fresh wave of attacks despite a year of multi-national military operations against them, analysts warn...Although training camps were broken up and some fighters have been disarmed, the rebels, whose leadership is wanted for war crimes by the International Criminal Court, have continued to carry out attacks on civilians in Congo, Sudan and the CAR.
"The LRA might be planning fresh Christmas attacks as a response to recent claims by the Congolese and Ugandan governments that the rebels are finished," U.S.-based advocacy group Enough Project warned in a statement on Thursday.
Enough said residents in the villages of Bangadi and Niangara, as well as local and international relief organisations, reported having seen letters from the rebels threatening mass killings over Christmas.

scottdisco
20-12-2009, 10:23 PM
to Rwanda, and this (http://allafrica.com/stories/200912190017.html) is worth quoting in full, certainly reassuring, especially the closing paragraph


The Minister of Justice Tharcisse Karugarama has condemned and refuted reports that government intends to criminalize homosexual acts saying that sexual orientation is a private matter not a state business.

His reaction comes after international organizations, including rights groups and gay communities across the world raised an alarm in several reports accusing the government of trying to consider a law against homosexuality.

"The government I serve and speak for on certain issues cannot and will not in any way criminalize homosexuality; sexual orientation is a private matter and each individual has his or her own orientation - - this is not a State matter at all," said Karugarama.

The International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, the Coalition of African Lesbians (CAL), and Rwanda's Horizon Community Association (HOCA), recently issued statements demanding that the Rwandan Parliament withdraws article 217 of the penal code regarding homosexuality.

The Minister accused the 'groups for either acting in total ignorance or intentionally presenting wrong facts for their own political motives.'

"They allege that the law was to be passed in Parliament on December 16, but sincerely there was nothing like that in the parliament that day."

He clearly stated that; "these people should distinguish between issues debated by private parties and concrete proposals from the government."

He hastened to add that the government has held a meeting with its development partners on this particular issue and told them their position 'which is that the government has no intentions whatsoever to criminalize homosexuality.'

Mr. Tea
22-03-2010, 12:23 PM
Story on today's beeb: Malawi, rather than Uganda, but the same topic - gay couple face up to 14 years in jail for "gross indeceny" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8579738.stm). :(

All the same though,



Malawi is a deeply conservative society but recently a group of campaigners came together to form a gay rights organisation, Centre for the Development of People (CEDEP)

it's heartening to hear that countries with very repressive legislation have organisations like this at all, even before they're made any tangible progress against laws of this kind.