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BareBones
01-03-2010, 04:11 PM
any good?

massrock
01-03-2010, 06:50 PM
It sounds good, like it would go well with some stoner metal or something.

But honestly I (I mean someone I met) would rather go with something with a bit more of a history of human abuse, like say MDMA.

You read up on erowid, yes?

grizzleb
01-03-2010, 07:00 PM
Heard it is pretty similar. I'm not into class A's anymore - they make me feel insane - but I would probably try this if I wanted to get pilled up.

Immryr
01-03-2010, 09:11 PM
it's alright. it makes you feel high definitely - much more chatty and all that kind of stuff. it doesn't really have anything like as much of a euphoric feel as mdma or good pills though, which is the best thing about mdma. what's bad about it's omnipresence is now when you're buying any powder based upper type drug you could be getting majorly fobbed off with this stuff.

Mr. Tea
02-03-2010, 09:27 AM
what's bad about it's omnipresence is now when you're buying any powder based upper type drug you could be getting majorly fobbed off with this stuff.

True - but at least mephedrone is guaranteed to actually do something, unlike the majority of, ahem, "cocaine" sold in this country.

It's fun stuff, but I fear it's officially 'over' - one of my housemates buys NME and there was a big article in it about mephedrone last month.

Not quite sure what this thread is doing in 'Nature'...pssst, it's not really 'plant food'... :)

BareBones
02-03-2010, 09:53 AM
yeah there was a centre-pages article about it in the metro yesterday. my brain (worryingly?) interpreted it as a big promotion.

the only horror stories on erowid seem to be people that have eg either snorted like 5 grams in an hour or used it continuously over days. and they're not really horror stories, just stuff like "i threw up and felt like shit".

david nutt recommends sticking to pills too massrock

massrock
02-03-2010, 12:02 PM
And the guy whose knees turned purple. But yes he did do an excessive amount.

four_five_one
02-03-2010, 02:06 PM
Seems to be the most popular recreational club drug now, judging by the amount of people 'bombing' it in rizlas last time I went out.

None of my friends that have tried it think it's anywhere near as good as proper MDMA or a good pill, but it definitely 'does something'. Someone told me that if you buy pills now, they're very likely to be mephedrone anyway, not E. Don't know if that's true, but if it is, it's probably just better buying the pure stuff anyway, surely? Least you know what you're getting.

simon silverdollar
02-03-2010, 08:15 PM
me and my friends did this quite a bit at bestival last year. it's nice - like mdma, but with none of the emotional elements. no sense of oneness with the world and all that funny business - but music and dancing is great. gave me mad memory loss though - seeing the photos afterwards was like the final scene in The Hangover.

Immryr
02-03-2010, 09:04 PM
it also has a funny smell to it, which can lnger on for ages.

reeltoreel
03-03-2010, 07:26 AM
And the guy whose knees turned purple.

This sounds like something from the Goon Show.

Lichen
03-03-2010, 08:07 AM
Is it an effective plant food though?

Mr. Tea
03-03-2010, 09:26 AM
Is it an effective plant food though?

Well IdleRich has the greenest, shiniest leaves I've seen in ages, if that's anything to go by.

nomadthethird
03-03-2010, 04:04 PM
Mephedrone is just souped up ephedrine.

Y'alls takin diet pills in powder form.

grizzleb
03-03-2010, 04:11 PM
Mephedrone is just souped up ephedrine.

Y'alls takin diet pills in powder form.

Yeah, and ketamine is a drug for horses.

Mr. Tea
03-03-2010, 04:12 PM
Mephedrone is just souped up ephedrine.


As is methamphetamine!

All these compounds are very similar, chemically. An oxygen here, a methyl group there...

Kate Mossad
03-03-2010, 05:33 PM
This is what it sounds like...

http://www.myspace.com/palaceofswords

nomadthethird
03-03-2010, 10:52 PM
As is methamphetamine!

All these compounds are very similar, chemically. An oxygen here, a methyl group there...

Check out the structures of mephedrone and methamphetamine.

The difference is that methamphetamine gives you a good serotonin/dopamine surge. Mephedrone mostly just raises your BP/heart rate...

Tho I haven't tried it just going by the chemical structure...

swears
03-03-2010, 11:00 PM
yeah there was a centre-pages article about it in the metro yesterday. my brain (worryingly?) interpreted it as a big promotion.



Few years back The Liverpool Echo had a headline "TWO ECSTACY PILLS FOR A FIVER" demonstrating how cheap E had become and therefore a danger to kids, more ODs, etc. For two seconds tho, I was like "Are they doing a voucher deal or something, like when you get a soup with your pasty at Sayers?"

Mr. Tea
03-03-2010, 11:32 PM
Mephedrone mostly just raises your BP/heart rate...

Would clubbers be consuming a metric shitload of this stuff every weekend if that's all it did?


Tho I haven't tried it just going by the chemical structure...

Quite.

grizzleb
03-03-2010, 11:37 PM
How do you know that the chemical structure affects the brain in such a way? Are you studying that sort of thing or something?

BareBones
04-03-2010, 01:04 PM
Few years back The Liverpool Echo had a headline "TWO ECSTACY PILLS FOR A FIVER" demonstrating how cheap E had become and therefore a danger to kids, more ODs, etc. For two seconds tho, I was like "Are they doing a voucher deal or something, like when you get a soup with your pasty at Sayers?"

megalolz

Sectionfive
04-03-2010, 03:02 PM
There was a head shop burned down and another attempted arson the other week. Its more then likely linked to criminal elements then concerned mammys...

They've been getting alot of free publicity in the media here the last few weeks, so now their making moves to ban it, along with spice and all that other craic.

nomadthethird
04-03-2010, 03:17 PM
Would clubbers be consuming a metric shitload of this stuff every weekend if that's all it did?



Quite.

People consume metric shitloads of ephedrine!

To me it looks like one of those shitty designer drugs that's nowhere near as good as most street drugs, just easier to get in some places, and cheap to manufacture.

Mr. Tea
04-03-2010, 03:34 PM
You can think what you like - mephedrone is very effective. Bear in mind that dexedrine and meth were novel, legal, designer drugs too, once. You've admitted you're talking from a position of ignorance wrt to the subjective effects...

nomadthethird
04-03-2010, 03:57 PM
You can think what you like - mephedrone is very effective. Bear in mind that dexedrine and meth were novel, legal, designer drugs too, once. You've admitted you're talking from a position of ignorance wrt to the subjective effects...

If it's anywhere near as good as meth, I could sure use some right now...

I have two exams tomorrow :eek:

luka
05-03-2010, 05:59 AM
if drugs dont work very well for me anymore is it cos im not getting good drugs or cos i burnt out some vital bits of brain matter?

baboon2004
05-03-2010, 09:44 AM
Where does one get good drugs from these days anyway? Oh for legalisation....

nomadthethird
05-03-2010, 11:10 AM
if drugs dont work very well for me anymore is it cos im not getting good drugs or cos i burnt out some vital bits of brain matter?

Almost no drugs work for me anymore, except my prescriptions. You have to take a long break, then go back.

Took me like a year of no coke for it to work again. Conflicts weirdly with my seizure meds though I think meth would too, tbh.

luka
05-03-2010, 10:25 PM
even if you take a long break, it might be alright the first time, not amazing but fairly fun, the second time even but then its boring again. not just boring but desolate.

massrock
05-03-2010, 10:35 PM
Where does one get good drugs from these days anyway? Oh for legalisation....
Hippies, as ever.

You need to know the right people and not be afraid of a bit of psytrance.

Kate Mossad
05-03-2010, 11:02 PM
This is what it sounds like...

http://www.myspace.com/palaceofswords

Okay, going to take the liberty of bumping this. Some music I made to accompany the mephedrone experience.

nomadthethird
06-03-2010, 12:37 AM
even if you take a long break, it might be alright the first time, not amazing but fairly fun, the second time even but then its boring again. not just boring but desolate.

Yeah, exactly...now when I do anything I mostly spend the whole time wondering how in the hell it used to be the only possible way I could make myself exist comfortably. Even if I feel them.

When medications adjust your brain to resemble a normal person's (or as close to it as possible), it's really strange how not amazing drugs are. It used to be either drugs or intense misery, so there was no real choice in the matter. Drug intoxication was the only bearable feeling I'd ever experienced, because I'd never experienced life from the perspective of someone without neurochemical imbalances.

In my current state I can take or leave 'em, which is how I suppose normal people always feel--they end up being more of a hassle than anything. (I still like acid, but it gives me two-three week periods of low energy and depression afterward, everytime I take it. My doctors ask me "why do you think you like altering reality so much?" and I just stare blankly at them like that's a rhetorical question.)

Chuu
12-03-2010, 11:21 AM
It's just for kids and plants, says so on the packet.

owengriffiths
12-03-2010, 04:59 PM
There was a head shop burned down and another attempted arson the other week. Its more then likely linked to criminal elements then concerned mammys....

Though in Northern Ireland there is proper vigilantism against head shops, an owner was shot in the legs by the Real IRA recently- other dealers have been threatened. Bit cheeky given that they probably sold E's themselves though maybe that's been put on the back burner now they're taking the arming struggle thing seriously.

grizzleb
12-03-2010, 05:28 PM
Though in Northern Ireland there is proper vigilantism against head shops, an owner was shot in the legs by the Real IRA recently- other dealers have been threatened.
That's mental. Why the fuck do they care?

Mr. Tea
12-03-2010, 05:45 PM
That's mental. Why the fuck do they care?

Daily Mail-inspired won'tsomebodypleasethinkofthechildren-ism?

Or it's just dealers masquerading as 'vigilantes'? Actually they'd probably want people to know it was done by dealers, wouldn't they. There've been addicts gunned down outside rehab clinics in Mexico; wouldn't be surprised if legal high vendors were targeted for similar reasons.

owengriffiths
13-03-2010, 03:09 PM
Well the interesting thing is that they specifically mentioned mephedrone as the reason why the man was shot- it's an indication of how mainstream it is now. Other businesses protested against the attack. In any case northern irish paramilitaries have always acted as community policemen, kneecapping people for various crimes like antisocial behaviour, housebreaking, and ridiculously, sniffing glue. I never really understood the last one, but the dealers themselves have always been targets. Despite the fact that all the paramilitaries have drug dealers in the ranks, and bizzarely the punishment gangs are often made up of people who were punished themeselves when they were younger.

But yeah it seems like a lot of fuss over something that is legal

swears
14-03-2010, 12:43 AM
Shit, everybody is on this. It's mental!

nomadthethird
14-03-2010, 03:15 AM
There've been addicts gunned down outside rehab clinics in Mexico

When I read about that I was like "pff, yeah addicts who robbed dealers then went off to hide in rehab when they got found out"

But that was just the relentless cynicism talking I guess.

Bettysnake
14-03-2010, 03:52 PM
Shit, everybody is on this. It's mental!

'parrently its related to Khat (http://www.thepoisongarden.co.uk/phantastica/khat.htm) hence the name 'meow'

Mr. Tea
15-03-2010, 10:08 AM
UMA THURMAN: *snort*

UMA THURMAN: Aargh Jesus, it burns!

UMA THURMAN: What the fuck is this, you wanker? I thought it was coke!

JOHN TRAVOLTA: Oh yeah, sorry love, it's 'plant food', I forgot to mention.

.... + 5 mins ....

UMA THURMAN: Oh God I am so high right now. Gimme some more.

nomadthethird
16-03-2010, 01:17 AM
UMA THURMAN: *snort*

UMA THURMAN: Aargh Jesus, it burns!

UMA THURMAN: What the fuck is this, you wanker? I thought it was coke!

JOHN TRAVOLTA: Oh yeah, sorry love, it's 'plant food', I forgot to mention.

.... + 5 mins ....

UMA THURMAN: Oh God I am so high right now. Gimme some more.

We've had that here for a long time...it's called bathtub crank.

Mr. Tea
16-03-2010, 11:41 AM
...it's called bathtub crank.

Gosh, drugs are so glamorous, aren't they?

I think that stuff is plain methcathinone - 'meph' is 4-methyl-methcathinone. Probably pretty similar. Fuck, I really should stop being such a pharma-trainspotter, it's can't be healthy. Maybe I should get into stamps or something.

matmustard
17-03-2010, 01:34 AM
Gosh, drugs are so glamorous, aren't they?
Maybe I should get into stamps or something.

'got that penny black, right here.. penny black - shit is the bomb, yo..'

DannyL
17-03-2010, 05:35 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/mar/17/three-arrested-suspected-mephedrone-deaths

cobretti
17-03-2010, 09:29 AM
There's been a lot of coverage and subsequent outrage following those boys' deaths, but there hasn't been any explanation in the media regarding how the drug killed them. Has anyone seen anything explaining that side of things? I've never taken Mephedrone and don't really care much whether it's banned, criminalised or left with its current legal status, but this is just the same old sensationalist nonsense and of course the big three political parties are going to try and ride it all the way to the polls.

massrock
17-03-2010, 10:28 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8571599.stm


NAHT general secretary Mick Brookes told the BBC...we need to think very carefully about what we do, but act with some speed

Oh so it's OK for head teachers to take amphetamines is it?

Mr. Tea
17-03-2010, 10:51 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8571599.stm



Oh so it's OK for head teachers to take amphetamines is it?

Haha, well spotted there.

cobretti
17-03-2010, 10:52 AM
Apparently earlier reports noted that they'd taken mephedrone at night, then methadone the following morning to bring them down. If so it's likely the combination of alcohol, mephedrone and methadone was what killed them.

grizzleb
17-03-2010, 11:53 AM
Wonder how many people died of boozing in the last month.

Mr. Tea
17-03-2010, 12:09 PM
Wonder how many people died of boozing in the last month.

My thoughts exactly. Whenever someone dies from a combination of drugs (which I'm sure is much, much commoner that people OD'ing on a single drug), it's invariably the new drugs, especially new legal or grey-market drugs, that get the attention. Established illegal drugs come second and alcohol is hardly ever even mentioned, even though it's probably a contributing factor in many if not most 'drug' deaths.

PeteUM
17-03-2010, 02:37 PM
Sounds like these guys were killed by the methadone/alcohol combo to me, not that we'll hear much about it from our trusty news sources.

muser
17-03-2010, 03:01 PM
^seems like they first started saying methadone and alcohol (pretty lethal I think) then possibly mephedrone and lots of alcohol followed by methadone (still lethal). Now just read in the metro today 2 people killed by mepehdrone with no mention of anything else :rolleyes:. Not going to be long before this substance gets banned, probably a good thing in a way considering how irresponsible these chem dealers are and the age (and complete ignorance) of the majority of people that are buying it.

Mr. Tea
17-03-2010, 03:40 PM
Yeah, it's fun but pretty vacuous really - ecstasy's dumb, loud kid brother. Still, value for money for a party or a night out.

As far as I can see, it never really had any particular youth subculture associations beyond general run-of-the-mill 21st century hedonism. Though having said that, I can see it fitting nu-rave like a glove: a cheap, disposable knock-off of ecstasy for a cheap, disposable knock-off of original acid/rave culture.

[wow, who knew I was a cheap, disposable knock-off of Simon Reynolds? :slanted:]

baboon2004
17-03-2010, 03:45 PM
what about meow meow?

Mr. Tea
17-03-2010, 03:52 PM
what about meow meow?

Goes well with russell dust but whatever you do, don't take it while smoking ponce-on-the-heath. :eek:

nomadthethird
17-03-2010, 08:59 PM
It's actually difficult to overdose on stimulants unless you inject them.

The most common culprits in ODs are invariably CNS depressants (alcohol, opiates) and benzodiazepines, which when mixed kill a large percentage of those who don't have a high tolerance for them and even quite a lot of people who do.

Entactogens sure are popular in the U.K.

mistersloane
17-03-2010, 09:25 PM
I don't think I believe that two kids story at all, the interview with the parents doesn't ring true to me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8571935.stm

I guess that's cynical of me. But whatever.

In the interests of research for Dissensus, I went out and did some testing and it's rubbish, stupid functional soma drug. Fine, but whatever.

Someone told me it was more addictive than crack though which made me like it more. I didn't believe them but it was a nice thought.

grizzleb
17-03-2010, 10:21 PM
My thoughts exactly. Whenever someone dies from a combination of drugs (which I'm sure is much, much commoner that people OD'ing on a single drug), it's invariably the new drugs, especially new legal or grey-market drugs, that get the attention. Established illegal drugs come second and alcohol is hardly ever even mentioned, even though it's probably a contributing factor in many if not most 'drug' deaths.

Alcohol kills 100 peeps a day according to some boy on ITV news. So there ya go.

Mr. Tea
17-03-2010, 10:46 PM
Entactogens sure are popular in the U.K.

It's true, a handfull of pink Mitzubishis are the only thing that can melt that stiff upper lip.

Meph isn't really entactogenic or empathogenic though, it's just another variation on a theme of speed.

Mr. Tea
17-03-2010, 10:50 PM
Alcohol kills 100 peeps a day according to some boy on ITV news. So there ya go.

Of course you have to weigh that up against the much higher number of people who drink...then again, meph isn't exactly an obscure "research chemical" anymore, I mean I wouldn't be surprised if tens or hundreds of 1,000s of people are using on any given weekend at the moment.

cobretti
17-03-2010, 11:57 PM
Of course you have to weigh that up against the much higher number of people who drink...then again, meph isn't exactly an obscure "research chemical" anymore, I mean I wouldn't be surprised if tens or hundreds of 1,000s of people are using on any given weekend at the moment.

There were probably over a thousand people using it at Bloc alone last weekend.

I agree with Sloane though, not to be disrespectful but I think the parents have quite a blinkered view of their son saying he would never have taken it if it was illegal; in my experience, teens and young adults who are interested in mind altering substances aren't concerned with whether or not the substance is illegal, only if it gives a good dunt or not. Maybe that's just Glasgwegians.

mistersloane
18-03-2010, 09:21 AM
There were probably over a thousand people using it at Bloc alone last weekend.

I agree with Sloane though, not to be disrespectful but I think the parents have quite a blinkered view of their son saying he would never have taken it if it was illegal; in my experience, teens and young adults who are interested in mind altering substances aren't concerned with whether or not the substance is illegal, only if it gives a good dunt or not. Maybe that's just Glasgwegians.

Maybe it's just me but the interview with the parents looked totally staged, like something from Brasseye, or a government advert made in order to get something banned.

It's quite weird with this stuff, I've never seen a substance become so prevalent so fast. E took much longer, and was way too expensive for most people when it happened.

What worries me is the lack of people stating that there's obviously the market for a legal drug, all this 'must ban it now' stuff just makes me depressed, methedrone is so ripe and blaaaaand enough to be able to just keep it legal and tax it.

mistersloane
18-03-2010, 09:22 AM
good dunt

Great phrase, not heard that before.

DannyL
18-03-2010, 09:35 AM
The BBC News last night was actually fairly objective, considering. They gave a good summary of the case against banning - creation of a criminalised black market, pushing the substance and it's users underground, criminalising young people,degradation in quality - and let David Nutt speak his piece - his idea about a Category D. However, as they sacked him recently and as we're in the run up to an election I don't think any party wants to be appear soft of the issue. Goodbye common sense, hello Mail-stule outrage and prohibition.

This country sometimes. I swear.

mistersloane
18-03-2010, 09:50 AM
The BBC News last night was actually fairly objective, considering. They gave a good summary of the case against banning - creation of a criminalised black market, pushing the substance and it's users underground, criminalising young people,degradation in quality - and let David Nutt speak his piece - his idea about a Category D. However, as they sacked him recently and as we're in the run up to an election I don't think any party wants to be appear soft of the issue. Goodbye common sense, hello Mail-stule outrage and prohibition.

This country sometimes. I swear.

That's really good to hear, cos as much as the legalise-it stuff bores me to tears - it'll never happen here - I just wasn't seeing another side to the story anywhere and like you said, this country...

Grizzle's right as well, legality doesn't even come in to it when people want drugs.

Part of the fact it's become so prevalent is that, in London anyway it seems, is that K supplies ran dry. Or dealers/suppliers switched to a legal substance - it seemed like such a good exercise in 'look! if you provide a legal alternative to this stuff, people will just take that instead!'....

DannyL
18-03-2010, 10:06 AM
Grizzle's right as well, legality doesn't even come in to it when people want drugs.

And to state the obvious, the blurring between legality and illegality - the moral case - is made shaky by the kind of hysterical scare-mongering in the press. i.e. the Mail screaming "KILLER DRUG" when this directly contradicts the experiences of thousands and thousands of people. Why do people buy these papers just to be scared? Can't they just go on a rollercoaster instead? if you basically lie about one thing, why should someone believe the truth is being told about heroin or crack?

Sorry to belabour the obvious, I just wanted to get that off my chest.

Mr. Tea
18-03-2010, 11:08 AM
I agree with Sloane though, not to be disrespectful but I think the parents have quite a blinkered view of their son saying he would never have taken it if it was illegal...

But hadn't they taken methadone as well? Which is a class A drug already? The mind boggles...

grizzleb
18-03-2010, 04:31 PM
Does anyone not think that all substances should be legalised and regulated? I've not heard anyone arguing for the contrary that didn't have a parochial, small-minded attitude towards the subject based on a childish 'fear' of drugs and drug users, whilst they freely go out on the booze and get steaming. Every weekend.

The irony of this is that Britain as a nation LOVES to get off it's head. People who don't drink are viewed as an oddity in this country. And from my own experience, as well as that of many people I know - drink is so often the worst of all drugs, in its affects on behaviour as well as health and its addictive properties.

People will always die by ingesting/inhaling/insufflating stuff, if we legalise it, and give people access to the right information (i.e don't tell everyone to down water whilst they are on E therefore killing various overcautious teenagers) then these risks can be seriously minimalised, and we as a society can have a mature attitude towards mind-bending substances.

grizzleb
18-03-2010, 04:38 PM
Grizzle's right as well, legality doesn't even come in to it when people want drugs.
That was cobretti btb.

cobretti
18-03-2010, 04:49 PM
Go on MSN some evening soon Boo, I usually fire it on for a bit most nights and you're never bloody on any more.

Anyhoo, as you were...

massrock
18-03-2010, 05:01 PM
People will always die by ingesting/inhaling/insufflating stuff, if we legalise it, and give people access to the right information (i.e don't tell everyone to down water whilst they are on E therefore killing various overcautious teenagers) then these risks can be seriously minimalised, and we as a society can have a mature attitude towards mind-bending substances.
It's irrational, but then the fear of 'altered' or unauthorised states is irrational, yet quite real.

However, the brewing industry and the pharmaceutical industry are, as far as they see their business interests, quite rational.

massrock
18-03-2010, 05:08 PM
But hadn't they taken methadone as well? Which is a class A drug already? The mind boggles...
To be fair they're probably not thinking very clearly. The parents that is.

cobretti
18-03-2010, 05:16 PM
Does anyone not think that all substances should be legalised and regulated? I've not heard anyone arguing for the contrary that didn't have a parochial, small-minded attitude towards the subject based on a childish 'fear' of drugs and drug users, whilst they freely go out on the booze and get steaming. Every weekend.

The irony of this is that Britain as a nation LOVES to get off it's head. People who don't drink are viewed as an oddity in this country. And from my own experience, as well as that of many people I know - drink is so often the worst of all drugs, in its affects on behaviour as well as health and its addictive properties.

People will always die by ingesting/inhaling/insufflating stuff, if we legalise it, and give people access to the right information (i.e don't tell everyone to down water whilst they are on E therefore killing various overcautious teenagers) then these risks can be seriously minimalised, and we as a society can have a mature attitude towards mind-bending substances.

I don't think the one size fits all 'legalise it' would work at all, I've had the same discussion many times with a friend of mine who insists that drug laws, smoking bans and such are violations of human rights, but that's obviously not the angle you're coming from. You know where I work, right by Glasgow's biggest railway station, between the business area at the west of the city centre, the retail centre bang in the middle, and the relative opulence of Merchant City in the east, and even here it's very easy to see from the people I encounter that legalising heroin for one, would not solve the real problem, which isn't necessarily people falling in to the trap of addiction (and the subsequent stigma attached to asking for help with the problem), but the mindless zombies people become when they just don't give a fuck. It's nice to envisage a world where everyone is respectable and, without things like substance abuse to drag them down, would be living as respectable citizens etc, but unfortunately there are still a minority (questionable in Glasgow at times though :p) who will still recklessly abuse whether or not adequate laws and support systems are in place.

You could say that alcohol has the same effect on people but I'd say that's a better case for more restrictive alcohol laws than legalising everything else.

massrock
18-03-2010, 05:18 PM
Indeed, how many people does water kill every year? I think we should told. And I'll bet a good percentage of those supposed 'alcohol' related deaths actually involved a dangerous cocktail of alcohol, water and god knows what else. This kind of solvent abuse is rife I tell you!

grizzleb
18-03-2010, 05:46 PM
I don't think the one size fits all 'legalise it' would work at all, I've had the same discussion many times with a friend of mine who insists that drug laws, smoking bans and such are violations of human rights, but that's obviously not the angle you're coming from. You know where I work, right by Glasgow's biggest railway station, between the business area at the west of the city centre, the retail centre bang in the middle, and the relative opulence of Merchant City in the east, and even here it's very easy to see from the people I encounter that legalising heroin for one, would not solve the real problem, which isn't necessarily people falling in to the trap of addiction (and the subsequent stigma attached to asking for help with the problem), but the mindless zombies people become when they just don't give a fuck. It's nice to envisage a world where everyone is respectable and, without things like substance abuse to drag them down, would be living as respectable citizens etc, but unfortunately there are still a minority (questionable in Glasgow at times though :p) who will still recklessly abuse whether or not adequate laws and support systems are in place.

You could say that alcohol has the same effect on people but I'd say that's a better case for more restrictive alcohol laws than legalising everything else.

The average age of smack junkies in holland changed from something like 21 to mid 40s when it got legalised iirc. Of course you can't stop people from fucking themselves up - but if you legalise it there are many advantages (depending on your stance). Clean needles and gear meaning less dead people, the fact of its legality means less of a feeling of stigmatization leading to improved sense of self-worth (or certainly one less obstacle anyway), also more prospects for help in getting off the drugs if you want as people are known to the authorities, etc. All this lead me to believe that legalising it would be a good idea.

The point from my perspective is - if your community is one where everyone around you is prospect-less, where crime is almost a part of your culture, where the only pressing avaliable options are to work on the till in asda till you die or get out of your tits for the rest of your days, I know how people end up in that position. For me, it's not the drug which causes the harm per se, it's more the feeling that people have no other option - of your entire community and social mileu being populated with people prone to casual violence and a prevalance towards drug use. People don't give a fuck because they don't see themselves as having the potential to lead a life other than the one that they've been exposed to.

cobretti
18-03-2010, 07:11 PM
The average age of smack junkies in holland changed from something like 21 to mid 40s when it got legalised iirc. Of course you can't stop people from fucking themselves up - but if you legalise it there are many advantages (depending on your stance). Clean needles and gear meaning less dead people, the fact of its legality means less of a feeling of stigmatization leading to improved sense of self-worth (or certainly one less obstacle anyway), also more prospects for help in getting off the drugs if you want as people are known to the authorities, etc. All this lead me to believe that legalising it would be a good idea.

The point from my perspective is - if your community is one where everyone around you is prospect-less, where crime is almost a part of your culture, where the only pressing avaliable options are to work on the till in asda till you die or get out of your tits for the rest of your days, I know how people end up in that position. For me, it's not the drug which causes the harm per se, it's more the feeling that people have no other option - of your entire community and social mileu being populated with people prone to casual violence and a prevalance towards drug use. People don't give a fuck because they don't see themselves as having the potential to lead a life other than the one that they've been exposed to.

There are many advantages, but also many disadvantages. When you get in to the idea of legalising everything, you have to weigh things life possible lives saved, diseases contracted against things like the possibility of more people becoming addicted to certain drugs, more overdoses from people used to watered down gear or not knowing their limits on a first dose and such. I see where you're coming from but I wouldn't condone it, for it to work you'd have to educate a whole generation before bringing the laws in to effect to avoid the initial shock that would undoubtedly occur should all substances be legalised.

cobretti
18-03-2010, 07:35 PM
Back on topic, very interesting that on tonight's Channel 4 News there was a report on a Mepehedrone related death and a piece on alcohol destroying people's lives in the North East within half an hour of each hour, but no discussion of the dichotomy between the demonised destructive qualities of illegal drugs and oft trivialised qualities of their legal counterparts, or for that matter their comparative death rates. Ah well, hopefully anyone with half a brain cell will join the dots.

Mr. Tea
18-03-2010, 09:27 PM
To be fair they're probably not thinking very clearly. The parents that is.

Warning: being a parent of someone who takes recreational drugs could seriously impair your judgement.

craner
18-03-2010, 09:29 PM
Who knows anything about propranolol? I've got to start taking this shit, and just reading about the side effects terrifies me.

craner
18-03-2010, 09:30 PM
It's probably lightweight, but I'm a capsule novice.

Mr. Tea
18-03-2010, 09:32 PM
The average age of smack junkies in holland changed from something like 21 to mid 40s when it got legalised iirc.

Heroin is legal in Holland now???

I'm sure you mean "available on prescription to registered addicts" - there's a pretty big difference between that and being able to walk into a 'head shop' and buy it (or order it online a la plant food).

Edit: I think there are still a (very) few addicts with smack prescriptions in the UK, just a couple of hundred maybe.

grizzleb
19-03-2010, 12:29 AM
Heroin is legal in Holland now???

I'm sure you mean "available on prescription to registered addicts" - there's a pretty big difference between that and being able to walk into a 'head shop' and buy it (or order it online a la plant food).

Edit: I think there are still a (very) few addicts with smack prescriptions in the UK, just a couple of hundred maybe.I'm not too up on it at the moment, so apologies if I got my facts mixed up. The point about being different from being able to buy it off the net ala mephedrone/plant food is central to what I'm saying - if you regulate these things and monitor this is different to being able to buy something online with no controls etc. I'm not recommending a free for all where a kilo of smack can be delivered first class by royal mail...

massrock
19-03-2010, 12:33 AM
Warning: being a parent of someone who takes recreational drugs could seriously impair your judgement.
Er, and has just died.

You cold, Tea.

Mr. Tea
19-03-2010, 09:51 AM
Er, and has just died.

You cold, Tea.

Yeah, fair enough.

Well I wasn't talking about those parents in particular, just parents in general who get their 'information' on stuff like this from tabloid newspapers (not that the broadsheets are necessarily a good source of unbiased, accurate information either).

I guess it's basically unreasonable to expect a recently bereaved parent to be able to take an objective view of anything associated with their kid's death, which is all the more reason not to parade them all over the media when the government's trying to make policy - of course, it makes good copy, so it always happens.

bassbeyondreason
19-03-2010, 10:18 AM
Who knows anything about propranolol? I've got to start taking this shit, and just reading about the side effects terrifies me.

I can only speak from my experience, but all I got (had it for anxiety) was a slowed heart rate and occassionally a dry mouth. I'm sure nomad will be along to tell you about reading side-effects lists.

massrock
19-03-2010, 10:19 AM
Were you referring to that line about acid (not sure if it was Terrence McKenna who said it...)?

"LSD is a psychedelic drug which occasionally cases psychotic behaviour in people who have NOT taken it."

DannyL
19-03-2010, 10:26 AM
I think that might be a Timothy Leary quote.

massrock
19-03-2010, 10:27 AM
That's what I thought but I had a quick goog and there doesn't seem to be consensus.

I like the Steven Wright one here (http://www.alternativereel.com/includes/top-ten/display_review.php?id=00095) -

"If God dropped acid, would He see people?"

Mr. Tea
19-03-2010, 10:51 AM
Were you referring to that line about acid (not sure if it was Terrence McKenna who said it...)?

"LSD is a psychedelic drug which occasionally cases psychotic behaviour in people who have NOT taken it."

No, I'd not heard that one - good quote though!

Tentative Andy
19-03-2010, 01:46 PM
You cold, Tea.

And there's really nothing worse than cold Tea.


(Sorry. You can get back to your serious discussion now).

continuum
20-03-2010, 09:20 PM
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DannyL
22-03-2010, 07:54 AM
Charlie Brooker nails it. As one of the comments said, the last time we'll see common sense in the debate.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/22/charlie-brooker-newspapers-dangerous-drug

Mr. Tea
22-03-2010, 09:13 AM
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There's something pretty fcuked about being told not to take drugs by anthropomorphic nunchuck-weilding turtle.

Edit: ha, these days I'm sure the Turtles' pizza obsession would be seen as encouraging obesity. Also you've got to love the cherubic pre-teen drug dealer. It was exactly like that at my middle school.

owengriffiths
30-03-2010, 12:52 AM
I never knew drugs were so prevalent in the primary schools in middle class suburbia, without the turtles to save the day white americans of the 90's would be truly fucked.

I've never understood the mainstream belief that teenagers ('the kids') are by far and away the demographic most likely to indulge in drug taking, drinking and sex. What a load of bollocks.

Mr. Tea
30-03-2010, 09:37 AM
I've never understood the mainstream belief that teenagers ('the kids') are by far and away the demographic most likely to indulge in drug taking, drinking and sex. What a load of bollocks.

I blame Skins.

owengriffiths
30-03-2010, 12:36 PM
Well at least they're over 18, it makes it more plausible. I blame the paedophiles, the labour party have pandered to minority interest groups like them and look where it's bloody got us. The country would be in safe hands if it was ran by the editor of the daily mail. Old enoch was right...

Mr. Tea
30-03-2010, 12:44 PM
Well at least they're over 18, it makes it more plausible. I blame the paedophiles, the labour party have pandered to minority interest groups like them and look where it's bloody got us. The country would be in safe hands if it was ran by the editor of the daily mail. Old enoch was right...

I've coined the term 'Enochulation' for the process of gradually getting more right-wing as one gets older... :cool:

4linehaiku
30-03-2010, 03:39 PM
Does that mean the MMR jab makes kids fascists? The public has a right to know.

massrock
02-04-2010, 09:40 PM
Only if they hit a major artery.
...
Johann Hari talking sense on prohibition in the Independent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-drugs-royals-and-the-lousy-laws-being-rushed-through-1933787.html

IdleRich
21-04-2010, 02:53 PM
Anyone else see this adver.. I mean article in the Times?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7101516.ece

PeteUM
28-05-2010, 09:57 PM
Mephedrone ODs weren't... (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/may/28/mephedrone-cleared-teenage-uk-deaths)

Brother Randy Hickey
28-05-2010, 10:14 PM
that was so totally bound to happen. Even at the time, some authority sources were playing down the meph angle. Makes a fucking mockery of drug policy in this country: it's dumb enough to pass an under-researched, over-wrought law on the back of two suspected deaths; but to get even that wrong - sheesh.

Personally, I loathe the stuff and know a lot of people who fucked up with it. But for those who were perhaps put off by the alleged "meph deaths", this is going to get seen as proof that it's perfectly safe after all, which it clearly isn't.

Thus having ENTIRELY the reverse effect to the desired one. As per fucking usual

Mr. Tea
11-06-2010, 11:39 AM
I think the mephedrone that was sold here all came from China - revenge for the Opium Wars 170 years on?