wikipedia and the populations of uk cities

dominic

Beast of Burden
notoriousJ.I.M said:
Here's c/o the Wikipedia

over in the music section the notororious j.i.m. mentioned an article on bleep & bass in wikipedia, which then led to my investigating the wikipedia links about various uk cities -- talk about bloody confusing!!!

so we have this about Bradford:

"The Bradford Metropolitan District (population:477,775) is England's 4th largest metropolitan area in terms of population"

and this about Leeds:

"Leeds is part of a metropolitan borough named the City of Leeds. According to the 2001 census the urban area of the city had a population of 429,242 while the full City of Leeds had a population of 716,513, the boundaries of the City of Leeds however include places which are separate from the urban area of Leeds itself and are not generally considered part of the urban city. Recent population estimates make Leeds the third largest English city."

this about Sheffield:

"Sheffield is a city and metropolitan borough in the north of England. The population of the City of Sheffield in 2002 was estimated at 512,242. It has grown, from its industrial roots to encompass a wide economic base and is now the third largest city in England, the fourth largest in Great Britain, and the only one in South Yorkshire."

this about Birmingham:

"Birmingham is a city and metropolitan borough in the West Midlands of England. It is the UK's second largest and most ethnically diverse city and continues to be considered the country's "second city". The City of Birmingham has a population of 992,100 (2003 estimate); the Birmingham metropolitan area (the West Midlands county) has a population of 2,575,768."

this about Manchester:

"Manchester is a city in North West England . . . . In 2002 the central district had a population of 422,302. This district is the heart of a large conurbation called the metropolitan county of Greater Manchester, which has a population of 2,513,468."

this about Liverpool:

"Liverpool is a city and metropolitan borough in Merseyside in north west England . . . . The population of the borough in 2002 was 441,477, and that of the Merseyside conurbation was 1,362,026."

Could somebody please sort this mess out for me? I can't make heads or tales of it.

What are the largest cities in the UK, in order? And what are the largest metropolitan areas, in order?
 

dominic

Beast of Burden
not that the populations of u.s. cities and metropolitan areas should be any less confusing for outsiders

And this is what Wikipedia says about St Louis city, St Louis county, and the St Louis metroplitan populations (I use this example because it's where I grew up):

"Saint Louis encompasses an independent city in the American state of Missouri (the "City of Saint Louis") and its metropolitan area ("Greater Saint Louis"). The city, which is named after Louis IX of France, borders, but is not a part of, Saint Louis County, Missouri. The Saint Louis metropolitan area, which includes counties in both Missouri and Illinois, is the 18th largest in the United States, with a total population of 2,603,607 as of the 2000 census. While the population of the metropolitan area has been increasing, the population of the City of Saint Louis (348,189) has been declining since the 1950s, as many have moved to the many suburbs in Saint Louis County, or to other parts of the metropolitan area."

"St. Louis County is a county located in the state of Missouri. As of 2000, the population is 1,016,315. This county is notable for its 400+ private-street associations. Its county seat is Clayton. St. Louis County borders, but does not include, the City of St. Louis."

And of course New York is composed of five boroughs:

"New York City has a population of over 8 million people contained within 309 square miles (800 km²). Immigrants from over 180 countries live in the city, making it one of the most cosmopolitan places on earth . . . . New York City lies at the heart of the New York Metropolitan Area, which, with over 22 million people, is one of the largest urban conglomerations in the world. The city comprises five boroughs: Brooklyn, the Bronx, Manhattan, Queens, and Staten Island, each of which could be a major city in its own right"

"Manhattan is coterminous with New York County and includes the Island of Manhattan, as well as several other smaller islands and a small portion of the mainland (see geography). As of 2000, the population comprised 1,537,195 people"

"Brooklyn is the most populous of the five boroughs of New York City. With about 2.5 million inhabitants, it would be the fourth largest city in the United States all by itself, were it a city. An independent city prior to 1898, Brooklyn developed out of the small Dutch-founded town of "Breuckelen" on the East River shore, named after Breukelen in the Netherlands. Kings County is coterminous with Brooklyn . . . ."

"Queens, the most ethnically diverse county in the United States, is geographically the largest of the five boroughs of New York City. It is coterminous with Queens County in the State of New York and is located on western Long Island . . . . As of 2000, the population is 2,229,379"

"The Bronx is one of the five boroughs of New York City in the United States. It is coterminous with Bronx County of the State of New York. It is the northernmost and only borough of New York City on the North American mainland . . . . According to a 2003 census estimate, the population of Bronx County was approximately 1,363,198"

"Staten Island is one of the five boroughs of New York City, located on an island of the same name on the west side of the Narrows at the entrance of New York Harbor. It is coterminous with Richmond County . . . . As of the census of 2000, there are 443,728 people"

Any questions?
 

dominic

Beast of Burden
and all throughout the Northeast there are political units called boroughs -- but only in NYC are boroughs coterminous with counties
 

dominic

Beast of Burden
here's a link to 50 largest U.S. cities:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

and here's a link to 50 largest U.S. metropolitan areas:

http://www.demographia.com/db-99met-r.htm

IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT U.S. STANDARD FOR METROPOLITAN AREAS IS DIFFERENT THAN THE BRITISH/EUROPEAN STANDARD FOR URBAN AREAS -- i.e., st louis metropolitan area has roughly same number of people as manchester urban area, but they are not at all comparable in terms of population density
 
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dominic

Beast of Burden
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dominic

Beast of Burden
find it interesting that u.s. computes metropolitan areas, and european census bureaus compute urban areas ------- you could probably read into this how automobile-centric american thinking is, whereas europeans think in terms of buildings

in any case, this is how wikipedia explains difference b/w the terms:

"Urban areas are contiguous built-up areas where houses are not more than 200 meters apart (discounting rivers, parks, roads, industrial fields, etc.). A metropolitan area is an urban area plus the satellite cities around the urban area and the agricultural land in between.

"The majority of European statistical offices do not have a definition for metropolitan areas, they only define urban areas, therefore it is not possible to give figures for metropolitan areas. Figures for European metropolitan areas than can be found online, such as London 13 million inhabitants, Randstad 7 million, etc., are only rough estimates, and should be taken with a lot of care. France is one of the few countries in Europe that actually define metropolitan areas, and calculate their population . . . .

"Figures here are accurate, unlike rough estimates of European metropolitan areas than can be found online. However, figures here cannot be compared with figures of American metropolitan areas. The Census Bureau in the United States computes metropolitan areas, which are larger than urban areas. The Census Bureau does not compute urban areas, so that it is practically impossible to compare the size of American and European cities, except in the case of a few European coutries such as France where the statistical office computes metropolitan areas.

"Please do not be surprised if you are used to higher figures for the cities listed below. London is frequently listed with 13 million inhabitants, Stuttgart is frequently listed with 2.2 million inhabitants, Munich with 2 million or more, etc. This is because figures here are only for urban areas, which are smaller than metropolitan areas. Urban areas can be computed by private people or institutions using maps and looking where the built-up area stops. Metropolitan areas, which imply much more complicated definitions (such as the proportion of people in satellite cities working in the core of the metropolitan area), can be accurately computed only by statistical offices, after they have chosen a definition for metropolitan areas, but unfortunately the majority of European statistical offices do not define or compute metropolitan areas . . . ."
 

Pearsall

Prodigal Son
You might find this interesting:
In 2000, there were 5.2 million immigrants in the New York Metropolitan Region, which includes the city’s five counties, an inner ring of 12 counties closest to the city and outer ring of 14 counties. While the inner counties accounted for one-third of immigrants, the outer counties accounted for less than one-tenth.

Another thing to remember is that, in Britain at least, a city has to be legally defined as one by government act!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_status_in_the_United_Kingdom
 
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