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luka
01-06-2010, 09:31 AM
yes or no or not sure?

droid
01-06-2010, 09:36 AM
No. Delete thread.

luka
01-06-2010, 09:37 AM
no. i disagree. i would like to see it dissolved.

droid
01-06-2010, 09:38 AM
Like solpadeine?

luka
01-06-2010, 09:40 AM
i mean, in practical terms its impossible.

luka
01-06-2010, 09:41 AM
but life would be easier without it. what i have in mind is a country called palestine with jews and arabs living together in peace and harmony. it would not be a religous state. just a normal counttry. it was a pretty big mistake, as mistakes go. i dont like the idea of religious countries.

vimothy
01-06-2010, 09:44 AM
And will you also be dissolving Pakistan?

luka
01-06-2010, 09:46 AM
dont expect me to enter into debate. you know i dont do that. i make pronouncements that you can interpret any way you like. it doesnt interest me.

droid
01-06-2010, 09:59 AM
All the more reason to delete the thread.

If you only want people to interpret your pronouncements - join the clergy.

luka
01-06-2010, 10:07 AM
why censor it? pointless. if k-punk can call for israel to be destroyed then i can share my vision of mulims and jews peacefuly raving together in a united palestine.

scottdisco
01-06-2010, 10:27 AM
why censor it? pointless. if k-punk can call for israel to be destroyed then i can share my vision of mulims and jews peacefuly raving together in a united palestine.

it's a lovely vision Luka you ironmonger loon you.

padraig (u.s.)
03-06-2010, 07:15 AM
dont expect me to enter into debate. you know i dont do that. i make pronouncements that you can interpret any way you like. it doesnt interest me.

w/all due respect, that's absolute nonsense. "hello, I'm luka, I issue inflammatory decrees from my throne of detached aloofness & then refuse to discuss the inevitable reactions b/c I'm above all that.":rolleyes:: in any regard, it's not your decision to make, nor, in any way, is it your judgement to pass.

unfortunately, matters are a wee bit more complicated than you make out. you know why I respect a dude like Droid? he actually cares & does his homework & is unafraid to "enter into debate" with goodwill. it takes intellectual courage to do that. if you're not willing to do that, why bother saying anything in the first place? it's one thing to make aesthetic proclamations about music or art, but this is different. & it's not about silly Internet debate rules or anything either, just about having a bit of respect. tbc, it's not a taboo question or anything - I'm certainly never in favor of censorship - but this is absolutely the most unhelpful (harmful, even) way of asking it. I don't think the thread should be deleted but if people - luka or anybody else - want to talk about it, then have a real discussion, don't just toss this around b.s.

(incidentally I'd like to thank Droid for his level-headed response, which helped to cool my initial rxn & stopped me from saying something much, much nastier)

luka
03-06-2010, 08:31 AM
padraig with all due respect i find you the most boring annoying poster on dissensus. you really are infuriating and if you are contributing to a thread i usually steer clear of it. thanks for your 2 cents, now fuck off. thanks. prick.

luka
03-06-2010, 08:40 AM
if you had any idea how fucking furious it makes me reading you dickheads pontificate about things you know BSOLUTELY NOTHING about.... posing as authorites... when you read the same websites as i do and gether your informtaiotn from the same places you po faced little shits. how dare you get on your high horse you humourless brain dead cunt.

luka
03-06-2010, 08:56 AM
this is not even just about you beig a cock. which you are. i abuse craner, who i love, about this all the time. its grotesque. really horrific thing to witness. priveleged little wankers spouting off... just cos you read some newspaper articles, self importnat dickheads... fuck off.... how dare you talk to your betters like that.

zhao
03-06-2010, 09:33 AM
i'm riding with luka all the way, on both the dissolution of Israel

At least nine people have been killed after Israeli commandos stormed a convoy of ships carrying aid to the Gaza Strip, the Israeli army says. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10195838.stm)

and the brain-dead humorless cunts posing as authority.

Dr Awesome
03-06-2010, 09:33 AM
Dissolved with a little olive oil and black pepper.

zhao
03-06-2010, 09:36 AM
"Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran"


Uzi Mahnaimi in Tel Aviv


"Three German-built Israeli submarines equipped with nuclear cruise missiles are to be deployed in the Gulf near the Iranian coastline.

The first has been sent in response to Israeli fears that ballistic missiles developed by Iran, Syria and Hezbollah, a political and military organisation in Lebanon, could hit sites in Israel, including air bases and missile launchers.

The submarines of Flotilla 7 — Dolphin, Tekuma and Leviathan — have visited the Gulf before. But the decision has now been taken to ensure a permanent presence of at least one of the vessels.

The flotilla’s commander, identified only as “Colonel O”, told an Israeli newspaper: “We are an underwater assault force. We’re operating deep and far, very far, from our borders.”

Each of the submarines has a crew of 35 to 50, commanded by a colonel capable of launching a nuclear cruise missile.

The vessels can remain at sea for about 50 days and stay submerged up to 1,150ft below the surface for at least a week. Some of the cruise missiles are equipped with the most advanced nuclear warheads in the Israeli arsenal.

The deployment is designed to act as a deterrent, gather intelligence and potentially to land Mossad agents. “We’re a solid base for collecting sensitive information, as we can stay for a long time in one place,” said a flotilla officer.

The submarines could be used if Iran continues its programme to produce a nuclear bomb. “The 1,500km range of the submarines’ cruise missiles can reach any target in Iran,” said a navy officer.

Apparently responding to the Israeli activity, an Iranian admiral said: “Anyone who wishes to do an evil act in the Persian Gulf will receive a forceful response from us.”

Israel’s urgent need to deter the Iran-Syria-Hezbollah alliance was demonstrated last month. Ehud Barak, the defence minister, was said to have shown President Barack Obama classified satellite images of a convoy of ballistic missiles leaving Syria on the way to Hezbollah in Lebanon.

Binyamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, will emphasise the danger to Obama in Washington this week.

Tel Aviv, Israel’s business and defence centre, remains the most threatened city in the world, said one expert. “There are more missiles per square foot targeting Tel Aviv than any other city,” he said."


Thanks to US funding, Israel has the 2nd largest fleet of F-16s in the world:

http://www.f-16.net/news_article1002.html

Also they are the one of the biggest recipients of US military funding:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_–_United_States_military_relations

Fuck America. Fuck Israel. Amen.

Dr Awesome
03-06-2010, 09:46 AM
F16's can be shot down.
Will be interesting to see if the US is wiling to sell them anything with stealth technology.

mms
03-06-2010, 09:49 AM
i see them more as a suppository

zhao
03-06-2010, 10:20 AM
but the most important reason for dissolution:

psy-trance.

zhao
03-06-2010, 11:28 AM
i just found this and do not necessarily endorse the message:

http://wobzilla.com/jews.jpg

droid
03-06-2010, 12:15 PM
this is not even just about you beig a cock. which you are. i abuse craner, who i love, about this all the time. its grotesque. really horrific thing to witness. priveleged little wankers spouting off... just cos you read some newspaper articles, self importnat dickheads... fuck off.... how dare you talk to your betters like that.

LOL, are you serious Luka? Seems like you have more in common with K-Punk than I thought.

FYI, Ive never claimed to be an 'authority' on anything. Most of my background on Israel comes from years of reading due to a pointless obsession with the politics of the region.

I dont really want to be patronising or play into the hands of abusive idiocy here but its impossible.

Pick up your toys, get back in your pram and fuck off before you make even more of a total fool out of yourself.

luka
03-06-2010, 12:38 PM
DRIOD i dont really want to do nothing with you cos we done that too many times... we rub each other up the wrong way... we dont like each other, but we know it, and we mostly avoid clashing now cos we know and thats great, so lets leave it.
i beleive a one state solution is the way to go but i dont get on a soapbox cos what the fuck do i know.

droid
03-06-2010, 12:48 PM
Actually Luka, the only time I have a problem with you is when you start acting like a twat which is what you're doing here. You earned my respect when you were the only person here with the balls to take on the original Padraig when he was being backed up by the Dissensus intelligentsia.

A one state solution does not require the dissolution of Israel, and you certainly didn't make it clear that this is what you were on about anyway.

The reason I called for you to delete the thread is that it came across as being a thoughtless, emotional, provocative and reactionary call fro the destruction of Israel, your reluctance to elaborate or debate only increases that perception.

luka
03-06-2010, 01:42 PM
A one state solution does not require the dissolution of Israel


i think it does in that one state is not a jewish state. its a secular state. two state means you have too many problems around say, jerusalem etc.
the title of the thread is there to be eye catching and provacactive and to register my emotional response, which is, essentially, fuck israel, what a bunch of cunts. i cant beleive they just did that. so yes, it was certainly an emotional response and i make no apologies for that.
yeah you had my back with the irish padraig and i still remember that and am grateful for that. like i said i dont want to get into beef with you again.

padraig (u.s.)
03-06-2010, 08:27 PM
well, luka.

like Droid, I'm not claiming to be an "authority" but I am pretty certain that I'm better informed, if only on this, than you or most non-Israelis/Palestinians, only b/c I have good reason to be: I have family, including my dad, in Israel; I know at least half a dozen people who've done ISM or similar work in the Territories; my stepdad was president of the local chapter of Peace Now when I was growing up; and so on. it's something that's been a rather big part of my life, in one way or another, since I was very small. mostly I wish it wasn't. for me it's generally an endless, gutwrenching, tremendously complicated emotional reaction, punctuated by terrible moments like this or hearing about my friend getting shot. I wish more than anybody I could snap my fingers & they'd just magically come to an equitable solution, but's it just not that easy.

yunno, I'm not asking you (or anyone) to write a freaking dissertation before you can voice your opinion, I'm just saying: if you're gonna say that's clearly inflammatory, if that's your honest emotional reaction, fine, but to make these decrees & then act like you're above other people's honest emotional reactions to what you said, that's just so condescending, & infuriating. anyway, again like Droid, I think you're a pretty interesting dude & I usually enjoy reading what you have to say, & if I didn't think you were worth it I wouldn't bother saying anything. I said all that cos you really f**king pissed me off, and I really think you know better. I mean for crissakes you're a poet - you know better than most people (better than me, most likely) the power words have. so call me all the names you want - sticks & stones & all that - I just ask you do me the same favor I try to do you of trying to engage w/what you have to say.

Sectionfive
03-06-2010, 08:35 PM
but the most important reason for dissolution:

psy-trance.

lol, Infected mushroom are here at the weekend, there's talk of a boycott

four_five_one
03-06-2010, 08:53 PM
Dissolved into what?

Dr Awesome
04-06-2010, 01:47 AM
Dissolved into what?

A free state run by the league of nations.

luka
04-06-2010, 02:19 AM
ive gone into taliban mode again....
it will pass....

zhao
04-06-2010, 09:35 AM
ive gone into taliban mode again....

go with it man. if you need supplies or ammo just holler

droid
04-06-2010, 09:44 AM
ive gone into taliban mode again....
it will pass....

LOL, and its understandable, but (and this is just my opinion), I think you were way over the top towards Padraig and you owe him an apology, especially after his last message.

I saw your deleted post on the Iranian hostage thread as well btw... :o

Mr. Tea
04-06-2010, 10:28 AM
Dissolved into what?

Some sort of fractious, ludicrously well-armed, Jewish soup, one would imagine.

luka
04-06-2010, 11:43 AM
droid i deleted that when i saw padraig said he knnew one of them.

luka
04-06-2010, 11:45 AM
i didn't bother reading what he wrote before i wrote that but when i did i deleted it.

vimothy
04-06-2010, 02:45 PM
pontificate about things you know BSOLUTELY NOTHING about.... posing as authorites... when you read the same websites as i do and gether your informtaiotn from the same places you po fa

I think there is an interesting point in here somewhere (I can admit to feeling a small pang of guilt). But isn't this really what everyone does, especially the journalists, whom we're all reading? Even the "experts" are mostly people who've just read more about you in a particular area.

luka
04-06-2010, 02:52 PM
ok yes i was just doing it on the rugby thread although i think that is slighlty less unwholesome. and again yes 'real' journalists do it too.

although i dont think that 'everybody does it' is a serious counter argument and nor do you.

vimothy
04-06-2010, 02:54 PM
No that's not what I mean.

vimothy
04-06-2010, 02:58 PM
How do you know something anyway?

You read and you discuss. In a professional setting you practice (after you've spent a lot of time reading and discussing). An "expert" is someone who has been doing this longer than you (relatively speaking).

And how do you evaluate professional or expert knowledge? Again, you read and you discuss.

luka
04-06-2010, 03:01 PM
boring now. ive said my bit.

vimothy
04-06-2010, 03:03 PM
Ha!

vimothy
04-06-2010, 03:06 PM
Anyway, point being that there's no hard and fast distinction between expert knowledge and the knowledge that the rest of us poor shmucks have, contra the implication of your post. It's simply a question of degrees.