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crackerjack
09-06-2010, 12:12 PM
I've moved this from the other thread. with the BNP having a disastrouss election and undergoing some kind of oprganisational meltdown, the EDL is likely to be home to most of the action for the far right, so it should get its own thread. They also get a surprisingly easy ride (http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/2311/full) from people who wouldn't touch the BNP.

Things are brewing round here
http://trialbyjeory.wordpress.com/20...of-persuasion/
http://uaf.org.uk/2010/06/stop-the-r...n-east-london/

June 20, EDL vs UAF outside the Troxy, which is hosting Islamic (alleged) nasties.

blacktulip
10-06-2010, 12:52 PM
Your links are screwed somehow.

hucks
10-06-2010, 01:03 PM
I think you've copied the shortened links, rather than the full ones

Anyhow, is one of the reasons the EDL gets an easy ride/ is not fully exposed simply because it's so provincial? It's not a London thing, it seems to come mainly from the Midlands,and the Metropolitan media just have not been interested.

I'm from Norwich, and my friends at home, as it were, are much more aware of the EDL than I am. I say "aware", I mean "sympathetic to" in some cases. I also say "friends"...

crackerjack
10-06-2010, 01:16 PM
http://trialbyjeory.wordpress.com/2010/06/05/the-art-of-persuasion/

http://uaf.org.uk/2010/06/stop-the-racist-edl-in-east-london/

sorry about that.

crackerjack
10-06-2010, 01:22 PM
I think you've copied the shortened links, rather than the full ones

Anyhow, is one of the reasons the EDL gets an easy ride/ is not fully exposed simply because it's so provincial? It's not a London thing, it seems to come mainly from the Midlands,and the Metropolitan media just have not been interested.

I'm from Norwich, and my friends at home, as it were, are much more aware of the EDL than I am. I say "aware", I mean "sympathetic to" in some cases. I also say "friends"...

They've been quite careful (after a bad start) to distance themselves from the BNP, deny any links to racism and wave their token Sikh around (I believe he's now a fairly senior official, notionally at least). Saying your against Islamic extremism is something of a no-brainer too, though how that tallies with a gang of football hooligans walking around Asian areas singing "We want out country back"...

btw, I don't think the media have ignored them, but reporting is necessarily confined to the marches and demos (which usually just tunr into rucks with teh UAF). Big piece in the Guardian a few weeks back. dunno what the middle-brow tabs make of them - where's Scottdisco when you need him?

hucks
15-06-2010, 01:46 PM
Rally in East London cancelled (http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/content/towerhamlets/advertiser/news/story.aspx?brand=elaonline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsela&itemid=WeED15%20Jun%202010%2011%3A48%3A18%3A477). Good

crackerjack
15-06-2010, 04:53 PM
Rally in East London cancelled (http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/content/towerhamlets/advertiser/news/story.aspx?brand=elaonline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsela&itemid=WeED15%20Jun%202010%2011%3A48%3A18%3A477). Good

Yup, the council issued a statement saying they\'d review their relationship with the Troxy if it went ahead. They took the hint.

Downside is the EDL claim a small victory (though it's a weird kind of victory that amounts to the council organising to keep you out), but I can live with that if it means a) making life harder for IFE types to organise and propagandise b) keeping these BNP-type scum from holding punch-ups in our streets.

scottdisco
16-06-2010, 12:19 PM
Big piece in the Guardian a few weeks back. dunno what the middle-brow tabs make of them - where's Scottdisco when you need him?

i wuv you too Cracker :)

i am afraid haven't the foggiest re Mail. Express, AFAICT, avoids them, or condemns street violence in passing but doesn't go in to things.

the latter are clearly in a bind. as you may know, they loudly condemned the BNP pre-election, though everyone else could see they have been an effective recruiting pamphlet for the BNP for years - New Labour who obv bear responsibility, Margaret Hodge etc, Mike O'Brien when in the Home Office, all Home Secs, esp Blunkett and probably Clarke (you know the history) and the tabs in symbiosis egging ea other on still further have done that anyway, of course.

so, they made overt statements condemning the BNP (because it is easy to be the Express and laud, as they genuinely do, Britons of any ethnic heritage who are settled here and who are honest, hard-working taxpayers, not this recent bunch who just want to swamp us), but the letters page tone was fairly easy to read; Express readers would write in now and again praising the BNP (who were) promising an even tougher stance on migrants than we already had under Nu Lab etc or the then main oppo Tories were promising.

and the steady drip-feed of Express stories (nonsense, conflation, exaggeration, outright lies, etc) did a great job for the BNP.

so i imagine they can't go too near the EDL, because even the slowest Express readers would see the similarities in terms of analysis about Muzzies that a gang of street thugs definitely share w Mr Desmond's organ.

as i say, haven't a clue about the Mail mind.

at least both papers lauded Refugee Week this week, which is something. there's still all their regular garbage about immigrants, but this is a bit of progress.

scottdisco
16-06-2010, 12:35 PM
tbc, the UK being one of the few govts to keep open borders during that big enlargement round a few years ago of course wasn't the country being hard on migrants per se, but, i mean, because until fairly recently the middle-brow tabs still appeared to have trouble understanding the difference between asylum seekers, EU immigrants, etc, they fostered that culture of cynicism about asylum seekers (and still do about immigrants), and it all just feeds into one giant populist laundry list, that Kurdish chap, for one, kicked to death by youths in the northeast some years back and witnesses said they heard them shouting anti-Muslim slogans as they murdered him, people believing TalkSport when they did that patently false story about Kosovans and the Queen's swans, just the general toxification of the air...

scottdisco
16-06-2010, 12:39 PM
citing a murder in the same breath as a bit of uninformed rabble-rousing over the airwaves might sound like i'm breaking some sort of Godwin's law for media studies, but i'll leave that post up, FWIW.

crackerjack
10-02-2011, 03:07 PM
In the week following their Newsnight debut, EDL get their first paper (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2011/feb/10/dailystar-english-defence-league) supporter.

Many more pathetic fumbles like Paxman last week and they might get more, Express being the next obvious choice. (Mail might be wary of Hurrah for the Burberry Caps-type headlines, especially given the footy-hoolie background of the EDL).

john eden
10-02-2011, 03:54 PM
The transition from street fighting and boasting on facebook to being an actual political party that people will vote for is not an easy one.

The EDL seems to largely consist of fantasists and self-identified football "crews". Unlikely to succeed, even with the Star's support.

Likely scenarios include:

Being absorbed by BNP/UKIP or similar.

Another big scandal about the leadership either being corrupt or being stupid or both. (See: the seemingly completely invented assassination attempt against The Leader prior to the Luton event).

A series of static demos which get more boring and lose support.

Some other way of successfully releasing all that pent up testosterone and adrenaline, which results in prison sentences aplenty.

john eden
10-02-2011, 03:56 PM
The Guardian piece completely fails to get to grips with the EDL's wacky post-modernism.

The conclusion about them being anti-semitic is hardly proven and their gay/jewish "sections" (is it one person who happens to be both?) is not addressed. Nor them flying the Israeli flag.

crackerjack
10-02-2011, 05:27 PM
The Guardian piece completely fails to get to grips with the EDL's wacky post-modernism.

The conclusion about them being anti-semitic is hardly proven and their gay/jewish "sections" (is it one person who happens to be both?) is not addressed. Nor them flying the Israeli flag.

No, it's just based on outdated assumptions about EDL=racist=BNP=anti-semite. Whatever we think of EDL's claim not to be racist, it seems pretty clear they're a new(er) generation with little of the Hitlerite baggage of Tyndall.

And anti-Islamism/Islamophobia (as you will) has much more widespread support than the BNP. Their main obstacle to growth (at least as a movement, even more so as political party) is their hoolie roots. Your leader adopting the name of a local football hooligan as a pseudonym (completely overlooked by Paxman) doesn't help.

A merger with UKIP would be funny, if only for the Farage/Robinson press conference.

Mr. Tea
10-02-2011, 05:32 PM
The Guardian piece completely fails to get to grips with the EDL's wacky post-modernism.

The conclusion about them being anti-semitic is hardly proven and their gay/jewish "sections" (is it one person who happens to be both?) is not addressed. Nor them flying the Israeli flag.

Yeah, what the hell's with that? I wouldn't be at all surprised if plenty of their boys on the streets were a bit anti-Semetic, I mean it goes with xenophobia generally, but I'd have thought the leaders would have tried to get some visibly Jewish characters on board to further legitimise the "We're not racist, see?" line. And it surely wouldn't be that hard to find some conservative Jews who might share their scaremongering views on Islam - would be quite funny to see them recruit Melanie Philips...

Edit: also, what crackerjack said.

john eden
10-02-2011, 08:48 PM
Yeah people forget that the overriding aspect is anti-Islam, bolstered up by the terrorist attacks and some stupidness by extreme Islamists in the UK. I wonder if you've actually had any experience of jewish people if you're a working class bloke in Luton or wherever? I imagine it's all fairly humdrum stuff if you have?

So yeah the old NF/BNP models don't apply because the EDL can position themselves as being for "women's rights" or pro-gay or pro-Israel because "militant Islam" is "against" these things. And they can even posture about not being racist because "Islam isn't a race".

I think they have one token Sikh member, for example (the Muslim and Sikh kids at my school hated each other, but were all victims of racism, go figure...). Newsnight included a section where their leader received a package of research material about the Koran from... Israel.

But yes as you say there are problems with this on the ground, they've had PR grief and fist fights when overt nazis turned up and started sieg heiling for example.

Mr. Tea
11-02-2011, 12:13 AM
So yeah the old NF/BNP models don't apply because the EDL can position themselves as being for "women's rights" or pro-gay or pro-Israel because "militant Islam" is "against" these things.

Well, let's face it, it is. But clearly it's not going to go away just because some people have a march and do a bit of shouting, or even if they do more unpleasant things; quite the opposite, of course.

But then, how feminist, pro-gay-rights etc. is the average EDLer, blah blah.



And they can even posture about not being racist because "Islam isn't a race".

Again, this is strictly true - for a given value of "race". You don't have to be racist to feel uncomfortable with certains aspects of a religion or the actions of some of its followers, and if you're ill-informed and fed propaganda it's easy to extend those feelings towards everyone who follows that religion or even comes from an associated ethnic background (which is where the racism-per-se comes in). I don't see Islam in this country as an unalloyed good, not because I'm terrified of Different People but because it's an authoritarian organised religion (standard disclaimer: just like Christianity - in fact I think a lot of people fail to realise just how similar the two religions are).


Newsnight included a section where their leader received a package of research material about the Koran from... Israel.

Oh dear...

john eden
11-02-2011, 07:38 AM
Yes absolutely... the difficulty I have is that these sorts of attacks which focus on muslims as muslims (rather than any other identity) are more likely to make them more religious/militant, as people band together when under the cosh.

It's hard to see a more liberal or even secular muslim identity emerging under these conditions, which you would think would be a sensible aim. (Unless you're just up for a ruck).

There was some footage on Youtube of about half a dozen EDL blokes, with their hoods up (bit like Burkas, eh?) shouting insults at a lone muslim woman on a train. Bravery issues aside, I doubt they bothered to ask her about how "militant" she was or got into a discussion about the finer points of her interpretation of the Koran. What about a "woman's right" to travel peacefully without intimidation?

And yet the defence the EDL mounts is that they are only interested in the barking mad excesses of islam in the UK...

Mr. Tea
11-02-2011, 11:39 AM
Well yeah, I mean it's a truism that in situations like this the extremists on either side are really each other's best mates, aren't they?

crackerjack
04-03-2011, 07:04 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/mar/04/daily-star-reporter-quits-protest

Webstarr
06-03-2011, 01:34 AM
I agree with the point that a series of stagnant marches could see support/interest in the EDL wane. I do get the impression that half the people who go are there mainly for a few beers, the social aspect and/or a fight with the political reasons playing second to that.

Slothrop
09-07-2011, 09:22 PM
EDL march in Cambridge today managed 200 people, of whom 180 were bussed in from outside.

TUC / UAF counter-demonstration had about 1500 locals.

So yeah, stagnant marches looks like it.

Which leaves you with the broader issue of islamaphobia in general. Presumably British Muslisms as a whole can't bring a class action against the tabloid press for defamation or something? You'd think we ought to be able to get some decent use out of our libel laws...

crackerjack
10-07-2011, 12:03 AM
A group of them were chucked out of the Salmon & Ball pub by Bethnal Green tube by the police earlier today. If the "Islamic Republic of Tower Hamlets" (as the scaremongers are calling us) can only bring out enough to fill a pub, it's not looking good for tommy & his boys.

Sectionfive
25-07-2011, 09:40 PM
http://www.channel4.com/news/edls-connections-with-breiviks-norwegian-cell


The Norwegian anti-Muslim group that terrorist Anders Behring Breivik claimed to have co-founded is connected with its English counterpart, online postings reveal.

Breivik, the man behind the killing of at least 76 people in a bomb blast in Oslo and a series of shootings at a youth camp on the nearby island of Utoya on Friday, notes that he is affiliated with the Norwegian Defence League (NDL) in his near-1,500-page manifesto posted on the internet hours before carrying out the atrocities.

The Christian fundamentalist also mentions his ties with the far-right English Defence League throughout the writings, revealing that that he had been "impressed" by the group, which campaigns against what it sees as the spread of Islam and Sharia Law in Britain.

In a manifesto titled 2083, Breivik writes: "I used to have more than 600 EDL members as Facebook friends and have spoken with tens of EDL members and leaders. In fact; I was one of the individuals who supplied them with processed ideological material (including rhetorical strategies) in the very beginning."

e/y
03-09-2011, 10:51 AM
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1341/the-guns-of-the-edl#.TlzeRtazyqg.twitter

crackerjack
03-09-2011, 12:05 PM
Supposed to be in Tower Hamlets today. Big police presence down Cambridge Heath Rd already and quite a few antis too. According to HNH, the EDL are congregating round Islington before coming here for their static protest.

edit: apparently there's 150 of them in the Big Chill bar, of all places

computer_rock
03-09-2011, 12:47 PM
Supposed to be in Tower Hamlets today. Big police presence down Cambridge Heath Rd already and quite a few antis too. According to HNH, the EDL are congregating round Islington before coming here for their static protest.

edit: apparently there's 150 of them in the Big Chill bar, of all places

any idea where the static protest is? i went an had a look down whitechapel earlier and it's all swp an uaf bods

crackerjack
03-09-2011, 12:50 PM
any idea where the static protest is? i went an had a look down whitechapel earlier and it's all swp an uaf bods

near Sainsburys and the market on Whitechapel Road, I believe

edit: HNH now saying round the back of Aldgate East tube - your best bet for updates is to 'like' their Facebook page. They're pretty regular.

computer_rock
03-09-2011, 01:05 PM
near Sainsburys and the market on Whitechapel Road, I believe

edit: HNH now saying round the back of Aldgate East tube - your best bet for updates is to 'like' their Facebook page. They're pretty regular.

i'm basically there now so i'll have a look around. this live stream appears to be king's cross:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/historyhistory#utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=8660369&utm_medium=social

it's blurry but I think there is a group of people penned in by the rozzers outside keystone

crackerjack
03-09-2011, 01:35 PM
i'm basically there now so i'll have a look around. this live stream appears to be king's cross:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/historyhistory#utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=8660369&utm_medium=social

it's blurry but I think there is a group of people penned in by the rozzers outside keystone

Matthew Taylor on Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/mrmatthewtaylor) says EDL look like they're being kettled in Kings Cross, which, if true, is obviously a terrible denial of their freedom to demonstrate ;)

There's another 200 of them round Liv St though.

Also read the UAF counter-demo has been kettled too, though dunno where that is - edit: Valance Rd, by the sound of it, so best avoided

crackerjack
03-09-2011, 02:03 PM
Police now talking of 1000+ EDL heading this way :eek:

baboon2004
03-09-2011, 04:09 PM
Where's Valance Road? Just came from the demo on Whitechapel Road....

oh scrap that, just saw it on the map - yep, that's where it was. Well, we left about 2.30-3ish, and nothing but Nitin Sawhney playing a DJ set. No kettling, but lots of police.

From the twitter feeds, seems like we missed a lot of the action five mins down the road: http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23uafeastend

crackerjack
03-09-2011, 04:20 PM
according to HNH, they never made it into the borough, which is a nice symbolic victory, I feel, despite the large EDL turnout

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1382/1600-they-did-not-pass#.TmJES0VNqVw.twitter

baboon2004
03-09-2011, 07:28 PM
I think the depressing thing in hindsight after today, is that with the governmental system we have at present, the NF/BNP/EDL/ANOther fascist movement are going to recurrently reach points where they have the kind of membership/support to become a threat again. And it must be really fucking boring if you've had to go on these marches every few years or so for decades - the problem hasn't been sorted in any meaningful way, not at all.

And first of all, of course, we have to identify what the problem exactly is, as in why a sizeable number of people attach themselves to such lunatic fascist movements - the answer to which I guess depends upon your view of humanity... :/

Obviously the fact that the EDL has targetted Muslims is not distinct from the Islamophobic discourse that has penetrated a lot of society over the past decade, aided and encouraged by the abject stupidities of the war on terror (and other abstract concepts) and the discourse around it. And that's my starter for ten....

One woman when interviewed as to why she joined the EDL: "I don't want my children growing up under Islamic law". Seriously. She said that.

crackerjack
03-09-2011, 08:14 PM
is it definitely all done? - fucking sirens and helicopter haven't stopped for a minute and I'm right over on the east side of Bethnal Green. Mind you, they've barely let up for a minute since the riots.

john eden
03-09-2011, 08:42 PM
Some reports of locals kicking off with police.

An EDL coachload jeered at a mosque earlier. Coach got smashed up. Great stuff, shades of Hyde Park 1989.

crackerjack
03-09-2011, 09:12 PM
Amused by all the 'They shall not pass' posts when it turned out they hadn't got inside TH. Shades of Retromania.

baboon2004
03-09-2011, 11:21 PM
Yeah, some of the speakers made broad comparisons with Cable Street, rightly so.

Fucking mental: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AQDOjQGZuA . How little has really changed, esp re the police.

computer_rock
03-09-2011, 11:25 PM
after spending some time at liverpool street and watching the kettle (and having bangers thrown at me) i somehow found my way onto the EDL 'march' to aldgate where the static protest was. actually ended up inside part of the EDL cordon, with the EDL between where i was and the UAF protest. saw it kick off a couple of times when people heckled EDL protesters who then broke the police line and chased them. after a while i noticed every single way out was blocked by a police line, and a battalion of fully suited TSG had arrived so it was time to leave. managed to get out the cordon - i guess this one was just it keep people out, not in.

all in all a thoroughly entertaining day out in the sunshine.

mistersloane
04-09-2011, 03:59 AM
It's having to go through 'official' police checks to join the EDL that bugs me the most about them. I think the fascists seriously need to separate from the police if they're in any way to be taken seriously.

grizzleb
04-09-2011, 04:06 AM
It's having to go through 'official' police checks to join the EDL that bugs me the most about them. I think the fascists seriously need to separate from the police if they're in any way to be taken seriously.
Haha, brilliant.

mistersloane
08-09-2011, 10:05 AM
Haha, brilliant.

Actually got this on good authority from an acquaintance that's, erm, entered the beast so to speak.