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MK-ULTRA
27-09-2010, 12:51 AM
the as yet non-existent "Drag / witch house" thread...


There was a bit of discussion on Salem etc on the Hypnagogic pop and Juke threads...

I agree Salem didnt come across very well in the interview posted on the juke thread: http://vimeo.com/10292988 and understand the hipster accusations but i agree with franz where he says their music...
is at least somewhat amazing

Downloaded the Salem mixtapes and whilst badly mixed and structured i was intrigued to hear them playing 4/4 dance tunes slowed right down, would be interested to hear any other (more successful?) examples of this.
Inspired by screwed hip hop and the beginnings of new beat, a friend and I have experimented with this (4/4 at 33) using the term shitalo (http://soundcloud.com/hate-kru) over the last few years at snails pace.

As regards to other acts which are being called drag I havent heard that much. Out of what i have oOoOO and Stalker seemed the most promising. Any tips?

michael
27-09-2010, 02:31 AM
Downloaded the Salem mixtapes and whilst badly mixed and structured i was intrigued to hear them playing 4/4 dance tunes slowed right down, would be interested to hear any other (more successful?) examples of this.
Inspired by screwed hip hop and the beginnings of new beat, a friend and I have experimented with this (4/4 at 33) using the term shitalo (http://soundcloud.com/hate-kru) over the last few years at snails pace.

I'm crossing the hipster streams, but Games have a bunch of mixes (http://soundcloud.com/games) that are slowed right down. Often more sort of new age synth stuff than dance tracks (although certainly some Italo stuff - Tarzan Boy from memory!?), but I remember reading one-half of Games (the famous half) describing them as sounding like Codeine ... which is pretty close to explicitly referring to screwed & chopped stuff.

zhao
27-09-2010, 03:47 AM
nevermind...

Alfons
27-09-2010, 01:23 PM
I like the concept more than the actual music, at least as far as Salem goes. Listened through the album once, has some interesting points and a few places where you go "this might be good" but then it doesn't really live up to it, imho.

Maybe I should check the mixes and other artists, any special recommendations?

CrowleyHead
27-09-2010, 01:33 PM
As far as Salem, it's welcome to me just because it's got a slight sheen of muck to the whole thing. It's nice to know music can be dreamy without sounding like another guitar crescendo/post-Aphex heroin coma. And it's taking everything I like nowadays, and somehow making them fit.

Dude really should avoid rapping live though. He's kind of awful.

Also in the Drag/Witch House field, there's someone named "Master Suspiria Vision" making all these convoluted mixes... Like, Horror Rave. It's pretty formulaic, but he's got some attention so it might lead to something.

Leo
27-09-2010, 03:16 PM
to paraphrase an old reese's peanut butter cups commercial:

"someone got chillwave in my goth!
someone got goth in my chillwave!"

Tyro
27-09-2010, 06:10 PM
My initial excitement in finding this thread quickly evaporated when I realised it wasn't an appraisal of the type of house music championed at Michael and Gerlinde's KINKY GERLINY club in the 90's:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Drag-Addict-Various-Artists/dp/B00000752R

The music of Salem is not without charm but the drag they parade in is markedly drab;)





www.myspace.com/glowofhonour

nomos
27-09-2010, 08:48 PM
ooh that salem interview really is awful isn't it, on everyone's part. the ennui!

curious to hear more. right now i'm tempted by the hype williams 7" that's just come out http://boomkat.com/vinyl/338442-hype-williams-do-roids-kill-e-rything#

slowtrain
28-09-2010, 05:14 AM
I really like a lot of the 'concepts' these genres bring up, but I'm not really feeling any of the tracks i;ve heard so far, it seems kinda sloppy and just bashed together lazily to me

KifNKin
28-09-2010, 10:57 AM
Own trumpets blare : http://www.thestoolpigeon.co.uk/features/salem.html

Apologies. Follow-up interview to those I did previously for No Pain In Pop/Stool Pigeon.

john eden
28-09-2010, 11:11 AM
ooh that salem interview really is awful isn't it, on everyone's part. the ennui!

curious to hear more. right now i'm tempted by the hype williams 7" that's just come out http://boomkat.com/vinyl/338442-hype-williams-do-roids-kill-e-rything#

yeah I also quite liked the sound of it, but the high price and awful synth sounds put me off in the end. there is something good going on there though.

droid
28-09-2010, 11:15 AM
Some of this stuff is quite good. Kind of a mix of Italian horror soundtrack, industrial and 4AD type vox with loads of dirty south snare rolls.

I was expecting utter shite.

droid
28-09-2010, 11:17 AM
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CrowleyHead
28-09-2010, 12:20 PM
Out of the whole thread, Hype Williams have to be, like, THE best bet for musical amazement.

Amicose
28-09-2010, 12:31 PM
Just making a fist of listening to the whole Salem album. Started off worrying that I was going to have to admit to everyone what I'd done and what a good time I had, cos I was having a good time at the start but then the same dread ennui you see in the interview video happens. Which is like a totally valid thing but definitely not something I'm setting out to recreate by listening to it again.

Sort of unfortunate for them that they just happened to want to make this really easily explicable synthesis of goth, juke toms and pounding euro techno just when industry's demanding a new rehash of something cos all the old rehashes are losing momentum. There's enough in there to think that in circumstances they could have gone somewhere interesting, and it's always interesting to ask why certain things are being rehashed but they're just docile and apposite to the times enough to make this boring thing with their eyes totally on the prize.

stephenk
28-09-2010, 05:33 PM
Own trumpets blare : http://www.thestoolpigeon.co.uk/features/salem.html

Apologies. Follow-up interview to those I did previously for No Pain In Pop/Stool Pigeon.

ohh this was nice, i feel the nirvana thing too, and this: "during the time iím in america, theirs are the only conversations that extend beyond pointless, say-nothing small talk."

i feel like i should say something about this controversial genre but i'm too disinterested. salem makes me cry and hype williams are nice too because they seem batshit insane.

Leo
28-09-2010, 06:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IOX3LQbwdw

surprised no one has brought up the whole "salem booed off stage at sxsw" thing. i like some of their records, but i can't say i blame the crowd here.

slowtrain
29-09-2010, 08:35 AM
Actually, those white ring tracks are really great. I need to check out some Hype Williams then I suppose...

Whats with all the triangle shit though?

samdiamond
29-09-2010, 10:43 AM
I've been listening to this so much recently
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FeZsad3s3hk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FeZsad3s3hk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Not too sure about most of this stuff though

polystyle desu
30-09-2010, 02:44 PM
See if you like this - oOoOO is probably more interesting ...
Liked some of these cuts ( 1 & 3 ) fine ( nothing 'house-y' about it )
While it's up ...
http://www.xlr8r.com/news/2010/09/stream-new-ooooo-ep

baboon2004
25-11-2010, 03:09 PM
I've been listening to this so much recently
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FeZsad3s3hk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FeZsad3s3hk?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Not too sure about most of this stuff though

This is bloody great!

Fundamental
25-11-2010, 10:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtG4X6Vl60o

I dunno if I get where it is from, but I like it. Kinda shoegazy.

baboon2004
25-11-2010, 10:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtG4X6Vl60o

I dunno if I get where it is from, but I like it. Kinda shoegazy.

This is really great, but I checked out a bunch of their other stuff, and it's wishy-washy to the point of tedium...nothing so catchy as a crunchy synth line...

Fundamental
25-11-2010, 10:49 PM
yeah, probably why it was the only tune on my itunes. The only other tune on my drag digital crate digging session was Salem- Frost.

Drag mainly seems to be a lot of bad musicians and songwriters cunningly disguising poor songs and performances amongst lush, psychoacoustic reverb and satisfying faux-analogue synths.

baboon2004
26-11-2010, 10:11 AM
That Salem video was the worst thing I've ever seen. They're beyond terrible.

unknown soulja
26-11-2010, 10:24 AM
I really like the whole o0o00 EP. Love all the sounds in Mumbai, just wish the drums were a bit straighter.

Some of Balam Acab's stuff is great (dont think he's been mentioned?) Theres a few free downloads on his myspace and his See Birds ep is on boomkat etc.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VNvrOiQZP-0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_GB"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VNvrOiQZP-0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Yeah the Salem live video was one fo the funniest things ive seen in a while!

daddek
26-11-2010, 07:03 PM
listened to that stupid ass 'Fuck NoOoOO: the anti witch house mixtape' yesterday, and it made all these bands seem all the more fresh and inspired

balem caleb one is lovely.

daddek
26-11-2010, 07:11 PM
Drag mainly seems to be a lot of bad musicians and songwriters cunningly disguising poor songs and performances amongst lush, psychoacoustic reverb and satisfying faux-analogue synths.

lol, I totally agree. Nonetheless some genuinely affective, pretty music is being created, albiet hapharzadly. They're having great ideas, but the lack of technical ability (musicianship wise & production wise) diminishes the end result - and the emotional reaction to it all. Drenching in reverb and tape saturation does wonders tho.

kids nowadays.

Leo
26-11-2010, 07:17 PM
salem are horrible live, but i sort of like their cd. if you can manage to separate the music from their pretentious image, some of it sounds pretty cool.

mms
26-11-2010, 07:25 PM
its a bit mad how salem have been hoisted into the view of 50 quid man or whatever, it could be that they're quickly victims of their own success - esp if they're playing live etc- it seems to make no sense apart from that they've kinda got the ultra cool thing covered ie the stories about being a rent boy and the 'yes i smoke crack' first single. I wonder how they feel about it, it all seems a bit uncomfortable, even if the invasion is to be applauded.

slowtrain
26-11-2010, 08:32 PM
Yeah, I've been having that same problem here as well... For every wicked tune (like that Hype Williams one) there are about 5 salems or some rubbish 80's pop tunes run through a tape echo and a 4-track....

I think maybe need to just sit it out for a year or so and wait till someone merges some of these techniques with other more 'pop' ideas...

Then again, the skaters are wicked, they've been doing this shit for years already...

Benny B
26-11-2010, 10:06 PM
The live performance vids are laughable. One of the worst performances I've ever seen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0ZetW6bQ7Q

How utterly, utterly shit. The worst thing I've seen in ages.

Damien
27-11-2010, 04:10 PM
I really can't fucking stand Salem, all the hipsters who live in trashed expensive housing wearing ridiculously over-priced clothes from the boutique bang on about Salem all the time. I can't hear it

slowtrain
30-11-2010, 06:11 AM
I do like this though....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSz_hninVAc

mms
30-11-2010, 09:35 AM
this one reminds me of French and Saunders or Not the 9 oclock news i can't help finding it really silly

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/16124732" width="400" height="265" frameborder="0"></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/16124732">LA Vampires feat. Matrix Metals - How Would U Know</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user3843569">Not Not Fun</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

mms
30-11-2010, 09:36 AM
I really can't fucking stand Salem, all the hipsters who live in trashed expensive housing wearing ridiculously over-priced clothes from the boutique bang on about Salem all the time. I can't hear it

i dunno it's difficult but don't let the people that like it put you off too much

Aww Nein
30-11-2010, 12:07 PM
a lot of this stuff seems to be cr33ping into the kinda post-dubstep mixes recently, namely the Becoming Real Fact mix and the Damu mix on Blackdowns blog...

to be honest im pretty into Salem, i think the bandwagon accusations arent really founded as theyve been making the same kinda music for a while now, and i cant really see them making a big stylistic shift in the future, its kinda like an endpoint, hugley compressed bleak swagger. And hipsters are into everything, thats what makes them hipsters, so no point worrieing.

however this
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/weDQIkGhEkY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_GB"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/weDQIkGhEkY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

does remind me a lot of this
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BDLxzDVYKgE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_GB"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BDLxzDVYKgE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

unknown soulja
30-11-2010, 12:29 PM
I prefered Salem's screwed versions of Gucci to any of their other stuff; quite like her washy vocals when they just provide another layer of sound behind a purposeful focus, otherwise they just become an annoying dirge lacking any punch....

The fact that hipsters rate it is irrelevant.

baboon2004
30-11-2010, 01:34 PM
this one reminds me of French and Saunders or Not the 9 oclock news i can't help finding it really silly

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/16124732" width="400" height="265" frameborder="0"></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/16124732">LA Vampires feat. Matrix Metals - How Would U Know</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user3843569">Not Not Fun</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

it's pretty good though. has the same kind of dreamy, throwaway quality that a lot of Italo has.

outraygeous
17-01-2011, 02:58 PM
HOLY WOW

SALEM are that bad. Well, I mean i just dont like them.

Hmmm

grizzleb
17-01-2011, 06:03 PM
LA Vampires instrumentals is one of the best thing from last year::: better than the 'proper' release.

http://stolenlynx.blogspot.com/2010/11/matrix-metals-la-vampires-instrumentals.html

paolo
23-01-2011, 06:23 PM
I like oOoOO

http://soundcloud.com/ooooosounds

hucks
23-01-2011, 09:53 PM
I like oOoOO

http://soundcloud.com/ooooosounds

Me too. nosummr4u on that page is lovely.


Does anyone have the Tri angle fact mix from last year to download?

simon silverdollar
23-01-2011, 09:58 PM
How utterly, utterly shit. The worst thing I've seen in ages.

it's a bit like a Mighty Boosh skit innit

slowtrain
02-03-2011, 04:09 AM
Anyone seen this?

http://dialplus4915788914297.bigcartel.com/product/animals-of-farthing-wood-bootleg-redubndubz-series

There is a brief clip on pootube, but I'm interested to see something more interesting:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3iDWVV2_cG4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

paolo
02-03-2011, 07:50 AM
Anyone else think that Raime sort of fit into this scene? Or is that just daft?

skull kid
02-03-2011, 09:07 AM
kinda daft but i can kinda see what you mean. i'd say raime already fit into an existing scene that includes downwards records, function, regis and sandwell district, ancient methods, all that new brum techno stuff that's coming out, perc trax, shackleton, mordant, vindicatrix, factory floor, demdike stare, alter records, chasing voices, and some euro techno stuff like stroboscopic artefacts, prologue, milton bradley/do not resist the beat

it's a completely different set of references: old school industrial, cabs, 80s goth and darkwave and minimal synth stuff, ballardian dystopia, primitive electronics, black and white xeroxed fanzines, re:search, early 90s og idm/intelligent techno, mick harris, jeff mills' ambient soundtracky stuff, basic channel, that kinda thing

padraig (u.s.)
03-07-2011, 03:37 PM
I was at some pretty awful hipster party the other night (that's what happens when you accept random invitations from random girls you met on the internet I guess) + some dude started talking to me about "grave wave" and I was like wtf...apparently it's basically witch house (or whatever people call it) but just the gothier side, altho salem etc was quite gothy to begin with so I don't really know? I don't really keep up with that kind of pitchfork-bait end of dance music but I thought what the hell + googled it so here is a "guide to grave wave" (http://mishkanyc.com/bloglin/2010/11/24/%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B0-presents-the-guide-to-grave-wave-3-disc-compilation-feature-article/) w/accompanying mixes for anyone interested. I skimmed thru + unsurprisingly it's pretty uniformly bad. I dunno, it's not even really terrible it's just mostly boring...not that drag was that great either but at least it inspired people to hate it...this is just blah. the mixes run from ambient stuff all the way to stock sisters of mercy ripoffs, some of it reminds of post-dubstep stuff in that it sounds like a bunch of good influences but the sum is far less than the parts. actually the whole aesthetic is weirdly reminiscent of bedroom black metal except w/ariel pink + andy eldritch as the cultural touchstones instead of burzum + darkthrone. anyway...

sidenote: "grave wave" has got to be one of the worst genre/fad tags I've ever heard

sidenote 2: rather hilariously, that party got broken up by cops about 20 minutes after I got there. b/c of the neighborhood it was in, like 30 of them showed up ready to bust serious ass and they got there and it was just a bunch of white hipsters drinking shitty beer and listening to bad cosmic disco, i.e. the most unthreatening group of people in the entire world

yyaldrin
27-04-2012, 11:04 AM
http://www.xlr8r.com/news/2012/04/stream-new-ooooo-ep

grizzleb
27-04-2012, 02:35 PM
Haha, grave wave. That's hilarious.

Mr. Tea
27-04-2012, 03:39 PM
How long before someone puts on a grave wave rave?

Been listening to loads and loads and loads of Demdike Stare recently, loving them to bits. Are they 'witch house'? Certainly very witchy but it's about as far from anything I would consider 'house' as it's possible to get. But then, I guess Salem aren't gonna get booked to play Ministry of Sound any time soon, either...

Leo
27-04-2012, 03:46 PM
Please let me know when New Grave happens. Or Gravestep, whichever. Thanks.

Slothrop
27-04-2012, 03:46 PM
How long before someone puts on a grave wave rave?
They could have it in a cave?

Mr. Tea
27-04-2012, 03:52 PM
They could have it in a cave?

With Nick Cave!

allegiant
27-04-2012, 03:58 PM
Been listening to loads and loads and loads of Demdike Stare recently, loving them to bits. Are they 'witch house'?
Though a certain Mr. Mugwump might try to tell you otherwise, no, they're most certainly not.

Gombreak
27-04-2012, 04:01 PM
How long before someone puts on a grave wave rave?

Been listening to loads and loads and loads of Demdike Stare recently, loving them to bits. Are they 'witch house'? Certainly very witchy but it's about as far from anything I would consider 'house' as it's possible to get. But then, I guess Salem aren't gonna get booked to play Ministry of Sound any time soon, either...


I've always seen DS fitting more with the UK techno style of Downwards/Sandwell District etc than anything else.

comelately
27-04-2012, 04:35 PM
With Nick Cave!

Behave.