PDA

View Full Version : who are wiley's equivalents on the hardcore 'nuum?



simon silverdollar
26-03-2005, 10:24 AM
so, wiley:- godfather, and creator, of the scene. universally respected. can pretty much do anything he likes- go on any station he wants, work with any producer pr MCs he wants, turn up at any rave he wants, cuz he's THE top boy.

what i want to know is whether there's any equivalent cases of one person dominating a scene to the extent that wiley does. was there a 'wiley' of jungle? of ardkore? of 2-step? of darkside rave?

scarboi
26-03-2005, 10:39 AM
just an obvious one

for jungle/d'n'b

Goldie?

maybe?

Tactics
26-03-2005, 12:11 PM
is wiley even the top boy? how many times has he lost clashes?

Blackdown
28-03-2005, 11:41 AM
wiley is the lightning conductor.

consider the things in grime he's instigated..

grime's riddim structure ( "eskimo")
grime's love of strings n horns ("eskimo")
1-on-1 clashing/battle hype
one line flows ("i know sufferer and he dont know you/i know street and he dont know you")
bass/devil mixes
the "artist" mentality (with dizzee)
bringing new people through (dizzee, tinchy & ruff sqwad, JME, Trim ...)
the dancehall influence ("ice rink" versions)
producer clashing (with jammer)

bun-u
28-03-2005, 02:08 PM
um ...a difficult comparison to make, rave was too much of a free-for-all for such a figure but jungle as it became more established I'd say Grooverider had a similar level of respect (ran nights, had a label, was a producer).....I don't recall a svegali figure in uk garage though Norris (Da Boss) Windross was suppsosedly pulling the strings behind-the-scenes

nomos
28-03-2005, 05:42 PM
I'd compare Wiley to a 4 Hero/Grooverider. (Or is he A Guy Called Gerald?) Maybe Dizzee to Goldie. Plasticman might be an Ed Rush. Who would Slimzee be?

simon silverdollar
28-03-2005, 09:36 PM
is wiley even the top boy? how many times has he lost clashes?

well, i think the general consensus is that only doogz ever really came close to beating him.

but regardless of whether he gets beaten in clashes or not, wiley is still the godfather of grime, and that's what i meant when i called him THE top boy.

simon silverdollar
28-03-2005, 09:38 PM
I'd compare Wiley to a 4 Hero/Grooverider. (Or is he A Guy Called Gerald?) Maybe Dizzee to Goldie. Plasticman might be an Ed Rush. Who would Slimzee be?


how much respect does grooverider get from the d n b scene today? i'm quite ignorant of such matters.

Pearsall
28-03-2005, 09:49 PM
I think Wiley is a unique figure. There hasn't been a previous scene where one man's vision was so dominant.

Looking back to dnb, I think Grooverider had an impact comparable to Slimzee's two years ago, where he could single-handedly break a track and was associated for quite a while as being the absolute key figure in bringing through a new sound (Groove with techstep/darkside dnb and Slim with grime). I'm not so sure the Wiley comparison fits. I think purely from a production standpoint Goldie isn't a bad comparison, in terms of blowing open the rule book in terms of sonically what could be done (there were antecedents for Goldie's sound, but he took it so much further than anyone else, at least at first), a bit like Wiley.

nomos
28-03-2005, 10:06 PM
well ok, i guess. but i don't know how i'm supposed to understand the present if i can't just arbitrarily map it onto what i already know of the past. :confused:

...wait! I know. wiley's the whole "Committee." there you go. simple.

Pearsall
28-03-2005, 10:57 PM
...wait! I know. wiley's the whole "Committee." there you go. simple.

lol :D

Melchior
29-03-2005, 12:17 AM
how much respect does grooverider get from the d n b scene today? i'm quite ignorant of such matters.

Far too much. Average DJ, plays boring tracks and is resting on laurels. But everyone's heard of him.

captain easychord
29-03-2005, 02:39 AM
Far too much. Average DJ, plays boring tracks and is resting on laurels. But everyone's heard of him.

**wobble-wobble-wobble-wobble-wobble-wobble-woble-wobble-wobble**

kingofcars
29-03-2005, 05:09 AM
grime's is hardly my field of expertise, but a few possible corellations (maybe not really w/in the hardcore continuum) -

dj assault for ghetto tek
pretty tony for early miami bass/freestyle
dj marlboro for baile funk
maybe praga khan for new beat?

i think region-specific dance scenes are often largely dictated by the aesthetic vision of one or two producers...

minikomi
29-03-2005, 05:48 AM
aphex.

originaldrum
29-03-2005, 10:14 AM
aphex.


i hear ya

Noah Baby Food
29-03-2005, 11:44 AM
There wasn't anyone like Wiley back in the hardcore days. Things were way too diverse, coming from many different directions. It was literally, Italian house b2b with Renegade Soundwave with Frank de Wulf with 808 State with Quadrophonia. Rave had no central figurehead. And there wasn't any internet, so people didn't pull everything to pieces with the over-analysis like they do now. We survived, and the music thrived and changed, without every nuance being endlessly debated. The facts is this: Prodigy releasing "Charly" kicked the whole thing in the head and ushered in all this cheesy toytown stuff, then it all spilt into a million fragments. But in the early days, there was no don, boss, top boy...it just didn't work like that.

Things changed when jungle came in and people like Goldie started working the media (and using a lot of other producers, let's not forget...Rob Playford to begin with, till they fell out, then masses of people on the second album...TOTALLY unlike Wiley. Plus, very media friendly...again, unlike Wiley). And the aforementioned Prodigy...with their later stuff there was enough visual identity to be sold to rock kids as a Band...a lot more marketable than white label culture.

Really though there's no comparison. Wiley is top boy in grime, which is made almost entirely in London. These cats all know (or know of) each other. Hardcore was a load of different records thrown together, originating from Italy, Belgium, New York, Sheffield, wherever, by people who didn't know each other. Some DJs were powerful - Grooverider's a great example of one who was influential across the board, but then you had someone like Stu Allan who was massive up North but FA down South, or someone like Aubrey who was vice versa.

Like I say, no comparison.

gumdrops
29-03-2005, 03:34 PM
i think grime is a drastic move away from the hardcore lineage, its a break from it.

Tactics
29-03-2005, 03:42 PM
i think grime is a drastic move away from the hardcore lineage, its a break from it.


how come?