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petergunn
02-12-2010, 09:37 AM
is everyone too saturated w/ this to have a dissenian opinion?

it's on the the front page every day here in nyc...

luka
02-12-2010, 09:39 AM
oh yeah i was gonna do this today

luka
02-12-2010, 09:41 AM
the dissensus opinion is troublemakers and shit stirrers are good in themselves. inherently good and holy. pissing off powerful people is good and holy.

crackerjack
02-12-2010, 09:47 AM
At the moment I'm more shocked by the reaction (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8172916/WikiLeaks-guilty-parties-should-face-death-penalty.html) than the content.

Death penalty, treason, drones...

That raging misfiring death star Palin comparing Assange to bin Laden.

petergunn
02-12-2010, 10:00 AM
the dissensus opinion is troublemakers and shit stirrers are good in themselves. inherently good and holy. pissing off powerful people is good and holy.

BUT WHAT ABOUT "STATECRAFT"???

luka
02-12-2010, 10:03 AM
i dunno, is it like world of warcraft?

Mr. Tea
02-12-2010, 11:53 AM
I touched on it in ye olde War In Iran thread yesterday...I dunno, apart from the sheer volume of stuff that's come out, it doesn't seem all that surprising. It's easy to see why conservative figures in the US are pissed off with all of their country's dirty laundry over the last few years being aired around the world.

luka
02-12-2010, 12:09 PM
thats the standard too cool for school response tea. i think its the wrong response. the proper response is glee.

Mr. Tea
02-12-2010, 12:27 PM
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm full of glee as well!

Just because something isn't surprising, doesn't mean it can't make you smile. And anything that makes Sarah Palin howl with indignation can only do that.

luka
02-12-2010, 12:37 PM
oh well good we're in agreement, i even thought of a soup i like. i like rasam. i love it. in fact any soup without food inside i dont mind. heinz tomato soup for instance. but if there's food in i dont like it.

martin
02-12-2010, 01:13 PM
I think the others all are too busy twittering about the student demos.

But yeah, it's been the best thing on the internet in ages - first thing to persuade me to bookmark the Guardian site anyway, just to watch the updates as they come. Though I agree with Tea - there's nothing in there to cause outrage/hilarity, like drunken comments about "cutting Israel loose", Clinton making racist remarks about Obama or confirmation of specific assassinations - yet. But it's been good fun anyway.

The Assange rape charges confuse me though. If they're nothing more than an attempt to discredit the bloke, surely Interpol must realise how retardedly blatant they look to everyone else?

deadtrax
02-12-2010, 02:12 PM
oh well good we're in agreement, i even thought of a soup i like. i like rasam. i love it. in fact any soup without food inside i dont mind. heinz tomato soup for instance. but if there's food in i dont like it.

what, not even seafood noodle soup? you prefer HEINZ to that???? i think we need a soup thread.

Mr. Tea
02-12-2010, 02:19 PM
'Thread: why is there no soup thread?'

PeteUM
02-12-2010, 03:04 PM
oh yeah i was gonna do this today

Yeah, I want this thread!

PeteUM
02-12-2010, 03:05 PM
Uh, and a soup thread.

PeteUM
02-12-2010, 03:08 PM
This Russia stuff makes me fear for Assange.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/12/2/1291284026259/Vladimir-Putin-and-Silvio-006.jpg

BareBones
02-12-2010, 03:12 PM
^ an older, european phil and grant

deadtrax
02-12-2010, 03:47 PM
what, not even seafood noodle soup? you prefer HEINZ to that???? i think we need a soup thread.

there's something about their base level tomato that gets quite sickly after a while. its also as MOR as it gets - the dire straits of the cheap tinned soup world.

i'm also quite partial to a heinz chilli bean soup.

//derailment//

IdleRich
02-12-2010, 07:05 PM
Yeah, it's not surprising stuff in the main but the point is that it confirms a load of stuff that everyone knows and that the powers-that-be constantly deny (well I guess no-one denies that Prince Andrew is anything but a total moron but you know what I mean) with bland, non-specific denials. This confirmation is a good thing. And if it pisses off a load of wankers so much the better.

baboon2004
02-12-2010, 07:36 PM
Assange has got to have balls of steel. He is without doubt the world's greatest living Australian.

Dr Awesome
03-12-2010, 12:13 AM
Assange has got to have balls of steel. He is without doubt the world's greatest living Australian.

Fittingly he's now a criminal too.

baboon2004
03-12-2010, 01:11 AM
Now, now...

petergunn
03-12-2010, 07:53 AM
i understand that in these diplomatic "cables" there is a need to speak in a quick and witty shorthand to get yr point across easily, but today when reading the paper on my dinner break, i noticed the following:

putin and medvedev are like "batman and robin"

now, i flip the newspaper like 2 pages and come across this:

"canada feels like batman to the USA's robin" (http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20101201/wikileaks-sarkozy-harper-101201/)...

what is up w/ these repeated batman and robin references? are the embassies staffed w/ comic book nerds? if so, could we get some hipper references? maybe a "Magneto to the USA's Dr Doom"?

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080809003303/marveldatabase/images/thumb/7/74/SuperVillainTeamUp14.jpg/300px-SuperVillainTeamUp14.jpg

Sectionfive
03-12-2010, 06:52 PM
^ an older, european phil and grant


unbelievable

mistersloane
03-12-2010, 11:44 PM
Yeah, I want this thread!

You got a mention in the Observer last week. I was like 'oh wow I know him, he looks like Phil Collins', until I realised that I didn't, and you don't.

massrock
04-12-2010, 12:19 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2010/dec/03/julian-assange-wikileaks

"Mr Assange,
have there ever been documents forwarded to you which deal with the topic of UFOs or extraterrestrials?"

"...it is worth noting that in yet-to-be-published parts of the cablegate archive there are indeed references to UFOs."

this'll probably be to do with gary mckinnon don't you think?

not necessarily et related but i have wondered if wikileaks have something quite dramatic they've been sitting on. something that would boost the courage and conviction needed to put themselves in the position they're in, or work as insurance. it takes some cajones.

has assange been so public because it's safer? the old way would have been to leak the sensitive stuff anonymously.

stevied
04-12-2010, 05:59 AM
Excellent CounterPunch piece by Alexander Cockburn on JA.

Years ago Rebecca West wrote in her novel The Thinking Reed of a British diplomat who, "even when he was peering down a woman's dress at her breasts managed to look as though he was thinking about India." In the updated version, given Hillary Clinton's orders to the State Department, the US envoy, pretending to admire the figure of the charming French cultural attaché, would actually be thinking how to steal her credit card information, obtain a retinal scan, her email passwords and frequent flier number.

http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn12032010.html

If you don`t already, it's worth reading AC's diary piece every week. The columns are published on the US Counterpunch site on Fridays. Thanks very much!

zhao
04-12-2010, 01:34 PM
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/03-12-2010/116041-valerie_plame_wikileaks-0/


Of course, I do not know if Assange committed the crime he is accused of. I do know that to the American legal "system" the truth is irrelevant. The minute Assange revealed the extent of America's criminality and cover-ups to the world, he became a marked man. And America is going to do anything it can to silence him.

Sectionfive
04-12-2010, 02:10 PM
^

How much rent is batman getting I wonder

crackerjack
04-12-2010, 07:16 PM
The Assange Assassination squad (can I be the first to call it AssAss?) is turning up in unexpected (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/2/assassinate-assange/) places...

stevied
05-12-2010, 08:14 AM
Why unexpected? The Washington Times is extremely conservative and is owned and funded by Sun Myung Moon. I think it loses millions each year.

luka
05-12-2010, 11:34 AM
i think da powers dat be are wise enough to know that killing assange wouldn't stop the wikileaks movement. it may be worth doing even so, to set an example, but i doubt it. i think it may well make the situation worse for them. they'll probably just make loads of fucked up stupid laws to deal with it like they usually do and the world will be a little less free again....

crackerjack
05-12-2010, 12:43 PM
Why unexpected? The Washington Times is extremely conservative and is owned and funded by Sun Myung Moon. I think it loses millions each year.

Doh! Didn't look closely, thought it was WaPo.

stevied
06-12-2010, 07:58 AM
No problem. The Washington Post is certainly a different kind of newspaper and obviously renowned for breaking Watergate. But it too has moved significantly to the right over the years. Sure, there are a some honest and good journalists still there, but it also employs plenty of hacks and shills for the State Department and corporate America: it was trying to outdo the NYT in pro-war fervour in the run-up to Iraq; publishes dissimulations by Peter Peterson, Wall Street billionaire and Nixon administration cabinet member, on the "need" to gut Social Security and Medicare; and last year was involved in a scandal about journalists being available for corporate hire. Thanks!

zhao
06-12-2010, 06:37 PM
nvermind

Dr Awesome
07-12-2010, 11:44 AM
Arrested (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11937110) - thoughts?

I always though Sweden liked to thumb it's nose a bit to the US of A, seems as though these charges are kind of... conveniently timed to say the least however...

Mr. Tea
07-12-2010, 02:27 PM
I bet the poor guy's been put off having sex ever again.

I distinctly remember he was up against a rape charge when the charges were first made, but now they're calling it "sexual assualt" - so does that mean a horribly violent rape, or a pinch on the arse? Of course, for all we know maybe the allegations are true - which is why it's such an effective way to smear someone, if they're not...

Sectionfive
07-12-2010, 03:30 PM
No bail granted.
In custody till later this month.

John Pilger was gonna put up some of the bail.


" Assange smiled twice in court. Once when giving Australian PO box as his address. Then when judge said Wikipedia instead of Wikileaks. "

droid
07-12-2010, 05:23 PM
I bet the poor guy's been put off having sex ever again.

I distinctly remember he was up against a rape charge when the charges were first made, but now they're calling it "sexual assualt" - so does that mean a horribly violent rape, or a pinch on the arse? Of course, for all we know maybe the allegations are true - which is why it's such an effective way to smear someone, if they're not...

He was charged, the charges were dropped.

Now theyre back again. The allegation is that he either failed to wear, or took off/broke a condom during consensual sex. It all seems extremely dodgy.

Mr. Tea
07-12-2010, 05:34 PM
If the sex was consensual, how can it be considered "rape", condom or no condom?

He should get one of these for the next time he has a hot date:

http://www.spymaster.co.uk/images/products/NBC-suit.jpg

droid
07-12-2010, 05:39 PM
If it's just that they didn't use one in the first place, how on earth is that his 'fault' any more than hers? And something you can be legally charged with? The mind boggles.

He should get one of these for the next time he has a hot date:

http://www.spymaster.co.uk/images/products/NBC-suit.jpg

Afaik the act was in progress when the condom was either removed or broken in either case.

Fair enough. I guess the ladies were just trying to avoid any sticky-leaks!

BOOM BOOM BOOM!!!

reeltoreel
07-12-2010, 06:59 PM
This post is good -

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/12/06/some-thoughts-on-sex-by-surprise/

links to this one -

http://studentactivism.net/2010/12/04/julian-assange-condoms-rape-and-sex-by-surprise/

crackerjack
07-12-2010, 07:14 PM
He was charged, the charges were dropped.

Now theyre back again. The allegation is that he either failed to wear, or took off/broke a condom during consensual sex. It all seems extremely dodgy.

His lawyer on C4 News now. Apparently still no charges, he's just wanted for questioning and the lawyer who's revived the case is a right-wing politician.

This is barely a pretence of proper legal proceedings.

you
07-12-2010, 11:08 PM
I cannot believe this shit - gibsonian.

More than one person, in more than one country is being seriously leaned on here.

Following from the guardian:

The WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange, who is wanted in Sweden over claims he sexually assaulted two women, was in Wandsworth prison tonight after a judge refused him bail at an extradition hearing in London. The 39-year-old Australian, who denies the allegations, was driven away in a white prison van after an extraordinary one-hour hearing at City of Westminster magistrates court. The district judge, Howard Riddle, ruled there was a risk Assange would fail to surrender if granted bail.

Despite Jemima Khan, former wife of Pakistan cricketer Imran Khan, the campaigning journalist John Pilger, the British film director Ken Loach and others offering to stand surety totalling £180,000, the judge said Assange's "weak community ties" in the UK, and his "means and ability" to abscond, were "substantial grounds" for refusing bail.

He was remanded until 14 December, when the case can be reviewed at the same court. His legal team said he would again apply for bail at that hearing.

The move against Assange came on a day when increasing pressure was brought to bear in the US on companies and organisations with ties to WikiLeaks.

As Joe Lieberman, chairman of the Senate homeland security committee, urged businesses to sever their ties with the website, Visa suspended all donations through its credit card.

Asked about the New York Times's role in publishing the leaked cables, Lieberman told Fox news the newspaper "has committed at least an act of bad citizenship. Whether they have committed a crime I think bears very intensive inquiry".

Assange, wearing a black suit and open-necked white shirt, stood in the glass-panelled dock as more than 50 journalists from around the world packed into the well and more than 20 supporters and friends crammed into the public gallery. Outside, the pavement was swallowed up as more photographers and camera crew jostled with angry protesters gathered at the building's main entrance.

After the ruling – with supporters waving A4 printouts reading "Character Assassination" and "Protect Free Speech" – his solicitor, Mark Stephens, emerged on to the court's steps to claim the prosecution was "politically motivated" and pledged that WikiLeaks would not be cowed. Assange was entitled to a high court appeal, he said, adding the judge was "impressed" with the number of people prepared to "stand up" on his client's behalf. "[Those supporters] were but the tip of the iceberg," he said. "This is going to go viral. Many people believe Mr Assange to be innocent, myself included. Many people believe that this prosecution is politically motivated."

Pilger, who told the judge he did know Assange and had "very high regard for him", said outside court: "Sweden should be ashamed. This is not justice – this is outrageous."

Assange was arrested by appointment at a London police station at 9.20am after a European arrest warrant was received by the Metropolitan police extradition unit yesterday. He appeared in court at 2pm, where he spoke to confirm his name and date of birth and to tell the court: "I do not consent to my extradition."

There was confusion when he initially refused to give an address except a Post Office box number. When told this was unacceptable, his lawyer, John Jones, read out an address at 177 Grantham Street, Parkville, Victoria, Australia. Assange is wanted in connection with four allegations including of rape and molestation.

Gemma Lindfield, for the Swedish prosecutors, said the first involved complainant A, who said she was the victim of "unlawful coercion" on the night of 14 August in Stockholm. The court heard Assange is accused of using his body weight to hold her down in a sexual manner.

The second charge alleged Assange "sexually molested" Miss A by having sex with her without a condom when it was her "express wish" one should be used.

The third charge claimed Assange "deliberately molested" Miss A on 18 August "in a way designed to violate her sexual integrity". The fourth charge accused Assange of having sex with a second woman, Miss W, on 17 August without a condom while she was asleep at her Stockholm home.

Lindfield argued there was a "high risk of flight" because of Assange's "lifestyle, connections and potential assets".

He had access to funds, through PayPal donations to the WikiLeaks website, had a "network of international contacts", lived a "nomadic" lifestyle, and spent his time in "hiding", she said. The court later heard that for the past three weeks he had been staying at a UK address, and before then had spent two months living at the Frontline media club in Paddington.

There was no record of him entering the UK in the first place. He had displayed an unwillingness to co-operate, refusing to be photographed, fingerprinted or give a DNA sample on arrest, she added.

No details were given about the strength of evidence, with Lindfield saying it "is not a factor in relation to bail". She also opposed bail for reasons of his personal safety, saying if granted "any number of unstable persons could take it upon themselves to cause him serious harm".

"This is someone, simply put, to whom no conditions, even the most stringent conditions, could be imposed that would ensure he surrendered to the jurisdiction of this court," she said.

John Jones said the case must be "shorn of all political and media hysteria" associated with WikiLeaks.

Assange was of previous good character, and had voluntarily handed himself in to Kentish Town police station in London. His refusal to be photographed, fingerprinted or give a DNA sample was on legal advice.

He had stayed in Sweden for 40 days after the allegations were made to answer the charges and only left the country after being given "express permission" by the Swedish prosecutor.

Since he had arrived in the UK he had "consistently agreed to talk to the Swedish authorities". His defence fund had been frozen, and he would also be "instantly recognised" if he tried to leave the country, said Jones.

"He resists extradition as it is disproportionate to extradite someone under these circumstances. There has been every indication that the point of this warrant is to get him back for questioning."

The judge said the warrant did state it was for prosecution.

Others offering surety were Professor Patricia David, and the lawyer Geoffrey Sheen, president of Union Solidarity International, who both said although they did not know Assange they were concerned about human rights. An unnamed relative of Assange offered £80,000.

But judge Riddle said: "The nature and strength of the evidence is not there, this is normal at this stage in proceedings. What we have here is the serious possible allegations against someone with comparatively weak community ties in this country. He has the means and ability to abscond if he wants to and I am satisfied that there are substantial grounds to believe if I granted him bail he would fail to surrender."

Downing Street said Assange's arrest was "a matter for the police" and there had been no ministerial involvement.

A WikiLeaks spokesman, Kristinn Hrafnsson, said it would not stop the release of more secret files. "WikiLeaks is operational. We are continuing on the same track as laid out before. Any development with regards to Julian Assange will not change the plans we have with regards to the releases today and in the coming days."

Unlike the UK, Swedish rape law is not based on consent but on the aforementioned concept of sexual integrity. There are a number of possible offences against this integrity. Those that involve both penetration and either physical force or a threat of some illegal act, such as violence, are classified as rape. So are assaults on people who are helpless at the time, either as a result of intoxication or severe mental disturbance. The degree of physical force involved need only be very small. It can be enough merely to move the victim's legs apart, according to Gunilla Berglund, at the Swedish ministry of justice. Rape carries a sentence of between two and six years; aggravated rape a sentence of four to 10 years.

An issue concerning Assange's lawyers is the lack of bail in Swedish criminal procedure. Suspects are remanded in custody when legal grounds can be made out for their detention – particularly when they are foreigners who are deemed at risk of absconding.

However, there are strict limits on the timescale for bringing a suspect to trial, with a formal charge required within two weeks of being remanded into custody, and trial one week after that.

The Swedish director of public prosecutions, Marianne Ny, dismissed suggestions of a political motive for the rape allegations.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/07/julian-assange-denied-bail

Then, on news night Kirsty asked if the distinction between Assange and Wikileaks was important - 'no', Kirsty pressed and explained that Assange has put 'levers' in place so that information would continue to be released even without Assange being around, if he is not actually releasing such leaks directly himself is it still correct to pursue his punishment? Answer : "well that is in the eye of the beholder" - - - - ho ho ho, says a lot about american democracy or justice notions ( or any political force anywhere for that matter ) - impression I took away is that it doesn't even matter if he's guilty, he's hunted, and he's going to be punished because he's upset people.

Also, the sex crimes are not actually awfully heinous, basically just misunderstandings within consensual sex from what I gather, considering his full co-operation so far such politically driven heavy handedness appears even more conspicuous.

Dr Awesome
07-12-2010, 11:24 PM
Ha. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/interpol-the-worlds-datin_b_793033.html)

you
07-12-2010, 11:49 PM
very good....

PeteUM
08-12-2010, 12:50 AM
Reuters on the rape-ish facts. (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B669H20101207)

slim jenkins
08-12-2010, 07:50 AM
is everyone too saturated w/ this to have a dissenian opinion?



Everyone?
I can't answer, obviously.
Me?
Yes.

Mr. Tea
08-12-2010, 12:25 PM
Reuters on the rape-ish facts. (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B669H20101207)

So, the claim here is that the two women tried to get hold of JA to ask him to get tested for STDs after having unprotected sex with them, purely out of concern for their (and I guess his) wellbeing, and that the public prosecutor got wind of this and decided to prosecute for rape, or molestation, or something.

I guess it's a truism to say that the only people who really know what happened are JA and the two women...it does sound as if he's been a bit of a twat at the very least but it's hard to imagine how he could get anything approaching a fair trial should this come to court.

you
08-12-2010, 07:16 PM
not sure about this article - good url though

http://thestandard.org.nz/marianne-ny-making-an-arse-of-swedish-law/

reeltoreel
08-12-2010, 10:45 PM
^^^
damnit

http://studentactivism.net/2010/12/04/julian-assange-condoms-rape-and-sex-by-surprise/


Slate characterizes this as a case in which Swedish prosecutors have confirmed that the sex in each instance was consensual, but are pursuing charges anyway. Their only sources for this claim, though, are two of Assange’s lawyers. And if that wasn’t bad enough, Slate vouches for the lawyers’ analysis in their own account of the incidents, even though it’s clear that whether the sex was consensual is under dispute. (Even the Daily Mail — Slate’s only non-Assange source for their piece — whose own reporting is deeply creepy in many ways, is more honest about the charges than Slate is.)


The Swedish authorities have released details of the allegations against Assange. They claim that he used his body weight to hold one woman down during a non-consensual sexual act, that he had sex with her without using a condom in violation of her “express wish,” and that four days later he ”deliberately molested” her “in a way designed to violate her sexual integrity.” The other complainant alleges that he took sexual advantage of her while she was asleep, and that he did not use a condom.

Also - http://studentactivism.net/2010/12/08/guilt-innocence-and-justice-in-the-julian-assange-case/


When a public figure is accused of misconduct, his supporters are often tempted to minimize the charges against him — to say that the accusations are not merely false, but also unserious. But in this case the accusations are serious. Assange may be guilty or he may be innocent, but he is accused of serious crimes.

And - http://feminismandtea.blogspot.com/2010/12/sex-by-surprise.html


First of all, let me put this straight: there is no such crime as "sex by surprise" in Sweden. Assange is charged for rape, sexual harassment and duress, and this is, what is called in Swedish legal terms, on "sannolika skäl;" a classification that means that the prosecutor has enough evidence to make her believe it is likely the verdict will be in her favour. There is fairly strong evidence, then, it is not charge pulled out of thin air. "Sex by surprise" or överraskningssex as it would be translated in Swedish is slang for rape. It is a term that is used when speaking about rape, but jokingly, or keeping it light, a word that brings with it positive connotations, which makes the word inappropriate in itself, but it is nevertheless synonymous with rape.

Mr. Tea
09-12-2010, 12:07 PM
Sensible piece on studentactivism there - justice should be done, though it's hard to see how impartiality can be ensured when so many powerful people are baying for his blood.

I liked:

"Despite what you might have read on the web, for instance, consensual sex without a condom isn’t illegal in Sweden."

You'd hope so, wouldn't you?

nochexxx
11-12-2010, 11:46 AM
there's a very good doc on Wikileaks here. (http://svtplay.se/v/2264028/wikirebels___the_documentary?cb,a1364145,1,f,-1/pb,a1364142,1,f,-1/pl,v,,2264028/sb,p118750,1,f,-1)

Sectionfive
11-12-2010, 04:06 PM
#wookieleaks

Leo
12-12-2010, 08:05 PM
perhaps the most disturbing wikileaks cable of all: http://www.ding.net/wikileaks/234867.txt

nochexxx
13-12-2010, 07:10 PM
why did Lamo shop Manning?

nochexxx
16-12-2010, 09:40 PM
where are the cables on UFO's!!! no cables no conspiracy. i shall be depressed.

Alfons
17-12-2010, 12:11 AM
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14/manning/

I guess they are setting a "don't leak our shit" precedent?

vimothy
17-12-2010, 12:24 AM
So fucked up, so inevitable. What was this guy thinking?

BareBones
17-12-2010, 01:00 PM
it's a shame manning seems to have been forgotten in all of this furore over julian assange. can't believe this treatment of him, it's fucking disgusting....

did anyone see that john pilger doc the other day, "the war you don't see"? very difficult viewing at times...

stevied
18-12-2010, 06:34 AM
Oooh, a Doomsday File... very nice!

When the talk of assassination heated up, Assange and his team released an insurance file to their allies. This heavily encrypted file contains damaging material on British Petroleum, Guantanamo Bay and other matters. It sits on computers, awaiting the 256-digit key. The WikiLeaks team has appropriately called this the Doomsday File.

From Empire Unmasked by Vijay Prashad

http://www.counterpunch.org/prashad12152010.html

stevied
18-12-2010, 06:38 AM
Yes, Bradley Manning is having a bad time. And, you're right, he is being ignored. Although, I saw a report by Glen Greenwald on Democracy Now the other day about his treatment.

nochexxx
18-12-2010, 02:16 PM
[QUOTE=BareBones;24943did anyone see that john pilger doc the other day, "the war you don't see"? very difficult viewing at times...[/QUOTE]

inevitably depressing, essential viewing. here's the link (http://www.itv.com/itvplayer/video/?Filter=198443)

must confess i was one of the idiots that fell for the Obama deception.

adruu
18-12-2010, 03:48 PM
democracy now is the standard for marginal american political discourse.

i really dont see the point in torturing this child, but i guess im old fashioned

Dr Awesome
19-12-2010, 02:44 AM
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padraig (u.s.)
23-12-2010, 02:07 AM
What was this guy thinking?

what was daniel ellsberg thinking? what was jeffrey wigand thinking? what was mark felt (aka deep throat) thinking? what is any whistleblower ever thinking? my hat goes off to him, for better or worse. my hat goes off to him, for better or worse, and there've been both.

speaking of ellsberg, here's a link to him on colbert the other night (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/368131/december-09-2010/international-manhunt-for-julian-assange---daniel-ellsberg), as well as some other bits on assange & wikileaks (I seem to recall that daily show & colbert clips won't play if you're in the UK for copyright reasons so apologies in advance if that's the case)

padraig (u.s.)
23-12-2010, 02:10 AM
also: I've been surprised at how bloodthirsty the media coverage has been here. I suppose I shouldn't be but calls for execution or worse, assassination are unusual even for fox news etc. and if it's not that it's politicos talking about making up new laws in order to have something to convict him of. I wonder if it was as bad for ellsberg - I think not, I know he was in a lot of trouble and went underground (though only for a couple weeks if I remember) but he was also very much a dissenter from within the establishment; american, former marine, longtime defense analyst and a player in those circles - he was actually a hawkish, cold warrior type before the war. in other words, someone who couldn't just be written off, and also someone who played by a well-defined set of rules, even if he chose to break them. whereas assange is pretty much straight out of a William Gibson short story, a hacker with that ethos & mindset, and targeting leaders of leaderless, faceless movements is the utmost futility. he was stupid to make himself a target, that was a bad mistake, but chop one head - hopefully not literally - and a thousand more will spring up in its place, as already demonstrated. it might be amusing watching folks try to shove everything back into pandora's box if it wasn't so alternatively depressing and infuriating. it's like all the hounds baying for assange's blood have just slept through everything that's happened since about 1998 or so. whatever, I'm sure all this has been said more eloquently by others elsewhere, I haven't been paying close attention, but I needed to get off my chest the feeling of watching this bloody absurd spectacle unfold.

and even tho focusing on assange himself is a distraction from the actual issues at hand, it will be a black mark against 10 downing if it colludes in this sham of an extradition.

Mr. Tea
23-12-2010, 10:11 PM
Ha, my brother was just telling me about a Wikileaks mirror site he hosts, run from a server in Iceland, that was the target of the DOS attack that blacked out Iceland's internet access for six hours last week.

Wonder who was behind that.

Funny old world.

crackerjack
24-12-2010, 10:51 AM
and even tho focusing on assange himself is a distraction from the actual issues at hand, it will be a black mark against 10 downing if it colludes in this sham of an extradition.

If may be quite difficult for them not to collude with the Swedish one. If the sexual assault charges look remotely credible, I don't see how they can refuse.

These Euro-extradition orders are designed to make it extradition within EU as simple as possible - even though the rule was brought in with terrorists in mind, it's hardly ever used for that. Packing him off to Sweden will also let the UK wash their hands of him without handing him directly to the Yanks.

petergunn
24-12-2010, 11:03 AM
Yes, Bradley Manning is having a bad time. And, you're right, he is being ignored. Although, I saw a report by Glen Greenwald on Democracy Now the other day about his treatment.

not a single American politician has anything to gain by seeing him treated well or fairly... saying anything (about his right to a certain standard of treatment, that he is innocent til proven guilty etc) would be political suicide.. people like Hillary and Obama see him as an opportunity to show how tough and patriotic they are... and the fringe right really do want to see him executed...

this administration has shown they will cave to pressure from the far right (Shirley Sherrod anyone?) over and over... any sign of kindness to an accused military traitor will be seen as weak liberal bullshit from the majority of the country... so, while treating Manning humanely would be the civil thing to do, i don't see it happening...

nochexxx
06-01-2011, 04:25 PM
Wikileaks is being leaked (http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2011/02/the-guardian-201102)

Sectionfive
27-01-2011, 04:55 PM
Some quarters still having abit of trouble with irony it seems, still though (http://www.techspot.com/news/41889-leaked-us-government-strategy-to-prevent-leaks.html)

nochexxx
27-01-2011, 09:05 PM
yeserday i discovered Manning has dual citizenship (http://ukfriendsofbradleymanning.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/bradley-manning-is-a-uk-citizen/)and is therefore a UK citizen!

i found out through Twitter, how shit is that.

Mr. Tea
27-01-2011, 10:30 PM
yeserday i discovered Manning has dual citizenship (http://ukfriendsofbradleymanning.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/bradley-manning-is-a-uk-citizen/)and is therefore a UK citizen!


Does that mean some political leverage could be applied to his case from this side?

Assuming we lived in a fantasy world where anyone in a position of authority in this country would actually want to do so...

nochexxx
28-01-2011, 12:52 AM
Does that mean some political leverage could be applied to his case from this side?

judging by the McKinnon case i'd say no, but at least there had been valid attempts for his trial to be held in the UK. what's really sad about Manning's case is we're not even allowed a sniff. no mainstream outlets are touching this with a barge pole.



Assuming we lived in a fantasy world where anyone in a position of authority in this country would actually want to do so...

yes, exactly.

nochexxx
28-01-2011, 10:42 AM
Greenwald article (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14/manning)

Sectionfive
28-01-2011, 12:27 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/magazine/30Wikileaks-t.html?_r=2&src=me&ref=homepage

nochexxx
02-02-2011, 10:01 AM
Assange on 60 Minutes (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7300034n&tag=contentMain;contentAux)

nochexxx
02-02-2011, 12:51 PM
what's really sad about Manning's case is we're not even allowed a sniff. no mainstream outlets are touching this with a barge pole.

i stand corrected. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/01/bradley-manning-uk-citizen)

Mr. Tea
02-02-2011, 01:18 PM
He has been charged with illegally obtaining 150,000 secret US government cables and handing more than 50 of them to an unauthorised person.

Someone help me out here - what exactly is a "cable" when it's at home? Seems like a curiously archaic term - is it just a catch-all for emails, phone calls, photocopied memos etc., that sort of thing? I assume U.S. diplomats and generals no longer communicate via telegram.

crackerjack
03-02-2011, 06:29 PM
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2011/02/wikileaks-legal-guardian


Whatever good wikileaks has done, seems increasingly clear Assange himself is a menace to the reputation of his own organisation.

Sectionfive
18-02-2011, 09:21 AM
bank-of-america-and-the-secret-plan-to-destroy-wikileaks (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/bank-of-america-and-the-secret-plan-to-destroy-wikileaks-15088535.html)

nochexxx
18-02-2011, 05:27 PM
The Forgotten Man (http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/special_eds/20110214/leaks/default.htm)documentary and extended interviews (http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/special_eds/20110214/leaks/default.htm) are well worth watching.

i really detest John Sweeney and his Panorama doc, but it's here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/default.stm) if you want to watch it.

crackerjack
18-02-2011, 05:40 PM
i really detest John Sweeney and his Panorama doc, but it's here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/default.stm) if you want to watch it.

I thought it was pretty fair. On a personal level Assange came across much as he did here (http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2011/02/the-guardian-201102)- badly.

nochexxx
18-02-2011, 10:29 PM
I thought it was pretty fair. On a personal level Assange came across much as he did here (http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2011/02/the-guardian-201102)- badly.

some of the points within the Panorama doc may have been valid but to my mind the documentary felt like a sinister witchhunt. desperately sensationalist in comparison to ABC's style imo, which also shared varying viewpoints on Assange's personality.

PeteUM
19-02-2011, 01:02 PM
Flawed heroes are OK by me. It's kind of the way that shit works.

crackerjack
01-03-2011, 05:13 PM
How flawed (http://www.thejc.com/antisemitism/45955/wikileaks-julian-assange-blames-jewish-conspiracy) is OK?

IdleRich
01-03-2011, 07:50 PM
That's just nuts - I mean it's so weird it's hard to form a moral value judgment in response to it. I guess it makes him pretty fucking flawed though.


Mr Assange accused the Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger of being part of the conspiracy, despite the fact that neither he or the other writers mentioned are not Jewish.
According to Private Eye, when informed of this “Assange insisted that [Rusbridger] was “sort of Jewish” because he was related to [Guardian journalist] David Leigh”.
That bit especially.

IdleRich
01-03-2011, 08:15 PM
Do you reckon he's friends with John Galliano?

http://www.artlyst.com/articles/john-galliano-racist-attack-video

Mr. Tea
01-03-2011, 10:00 PM
Sounds to me increasingly like Wikileaks could do with a new figurehead, or at least some sort of acting spokesperson, while Assange sorts himself the fuck out.


Do you reckon he's friends with John Galliano?


I was just thinking that. They should go out on the lash with Mel Gibson, I bet they'd all have a whale of a time.

grizzleb
02-03-2011, 07:39 AM
It doesn't sound like he actually said 'Jewish conspiracy'. Sounds like some proper smear shit tbh...just let him speak for any length of time and then eventually he'll say some daft shit you can selectively quote, and then bobs your uncle

Loved the cartoon in this month's prospect though.

crackerjack
02-03-2011, 08:12 AM
It doesn't sound like he actually said 'Jewish conspiracy'. Sounds like some proper smear shit tbh...just let him speak for any length of time and then eventually he'll say some daft shit you can selectively quote, and then bobs your uncle

Oh FFS, if you don't go on about people your enemies all being Jewish then there's nothing there for people to "selectively quote". Once you do, you're in the land of the indefensible.

grizzleb
02-03-2011, 12:36 PM
It doesn't sound like he did say that though.

Mr. Tea
02-03-2011, 12:49 PM
In the same interview Mr Assange added that [Private Eye] was “part of a conspiracy” led by “Jewish” writers.

Mr Assange accused the Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger of being part of the conspiracy, despite the fact that neither he or the other writers mentioned are not Jewish.

According to Private Eye, when informed of this “Assange insisted that [Rusbridger] was “sort of Jewish” because he was related to [Guardian journalist] David Leigh”.

Admittedly the JC is unlikely to take an entirely disinterested stance on this, but either Assange said those things or he didn't, and if he did it's quite damning, isn't it?

Edit: crackerjack, admittedly he didn't say *all* his enemies were Jewish, did he? That would kind of mean the entire American establishment was Jewish...

crackerjack
02-03-2011, 12:52 PM
It doesn't sound like he did say that though.

He very clearly said certain journalists were Jewish (wrongly in at least one case) and that they were deliberately misrepresenting him and his work because of that.

PeteUM
02-03-2011, 05:02 PM
Just clarify/attempt to wriggle out of what I said upthread (:eek:) i.e. the thing about flawed heroes - I meant that this kind of binary good guys/bad guys world always strikes me as a bit weird, although I must admit I want Assange to be whiter than white myself (no racial undertone to that) just cos, you know, fuck the The Man and stuff. Granted that he is accused of rape, and that this Jewish conspiracy claim sounds pretty paranoid, but it seems that he has to be Jesus or Satan for people, and I find that interesting. I dunno, I'm into myths and archetypes and I find him a fascinating character from that point of view. Like, here's this white-haired weirdo outsider representing a new paradigm (harnessing new relationships of power and technology) that emerges during a structural shift in a society's values, who stands up against the old order/makes them look foolish/inflames the youth/blah blah blah, and we're somewhere in Act 2 right now, witnessing a downfall due to inherent flaws/eternal verities, presumably followed by some kind of synthesis. He he, perhaps I'm getting a bit carried away, but the saviour/betrayer thing is a cultural/historical classic innit.

Mr. Tea
02-03-2011, 05:15 PM
Great post, Pete.

Assange's paranoia towards International Jewry does makes a certain twisted sense if you think he really believes his own (capital-M) Messiah-hood - "They got Him, they're after Me too!", haha.

PeteUM
02-03-2011, 06:02 PM
Great post, Pete.

Assange's paranoia towards International Jewry does makes a certain twisted sense if you think he really believes his own (capital-M) Messiah-hood - "They got Him, they're after Me too!", haha.


Ah yeah, I hadn't thought of that! Still don't totally get this connection between paranoia and Jew-hating though.

I almost did write something about Assange's own operating myth - how he sees himself, but I didn't want to get too tangential. Related to that is the question of the pressure he is under and what that can do to you. He can't have had a good night's sleep, like, ever...

Mr. Tea
02-03-2011, 06:12 PM
I'm not sure it's strictly possible for Assange to really be paranoid - everyone (in a position of power) really is out to get him. He's the Man Who Kicked The Hornets' Nest, innit.

adruu
05-03-2011, 08:17 PM
it is utterly bizarre that a bunch of tech nerds would practice redundancy in everything BUT their public persona (assange)

way to put all eggs in a basket under an anvil

Sectionfive
05-03-2011, 10:25 PM
@wikileaks: If you thought Wikileaks was important wait untill the
#Egyptians start uploading what they found tonight.

bggg

Sectionfive
17-06-2011, 12:48 PM
Haitian French language newspaper Haïti Liberté has obtained a number of US Embassy cables related to the island and is collaborating with The Nation in a series of articles on US policy towards the country. Recent articles examine the free-for-all described by the US ambassador as American companies joined the reconstruction gold rush after the January 2010 earthquake.



"THE GOLD RUSH IS ON!" Merten headlined a section of his 6 PM situation report—or SitRep—to Washington. "As Haiti digs out from the earthquake, different [US] companies are moving in to sell their concepts, products and services," he wrote. "President Preval met with Gen Wesley Clark Saturday [January 29] and received a sales presentation on a hurricane/earthquake resistant foam core house designed for low income residents."


Another cable from 2009 shows how the US tried to prevent a rise in the minimum wage because of opposition to the measure from US multinational clothing manufacturers:


Contractors for Fruit of the Loom, Hanes and Levi’s worked in close concert with the US Embassy when they aggressively moved to block a minimum wage increase for Haitian assembly zone workers, the lowest-paid in the hemisphere, according to secret State Department cables.
The factory owners told the Haitian Parliament that they were willing to give workers a 9-cents-per-hour pay increase to 31 cents per hour to make T-shirts, bras and underwear for US clothing giants like Dockers and Nautica.

But the factory owners refused to pay 62 cents per hour, or $5 per day, as a measure unanimously passed by the Haitian Parliament in June 2009 would have mandated. And they had the vigorous backing of the US Agency for International Development and the US Embassy when they took that stand.

http://www.thenation.com/article/161057/wikileaks-haiti-let-them-live-3-day
http://www.thenation.com/article/161469/wikileaks-haiti-post-quake-gold-rush-reconstruction-contracts


:mad:

Mr. Tea
26-06-2011, 02:51 PM
Not Wikileaks-related per se, but:

Senior Tory found dead on the bog at Glasto. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jun/26/tory-christopher-shale-dead-glastonbury) :eek:

Sounds like it might be suicide after he was quoted in documents leaked to a newspaper in which he called his party "graceless, voracious, crass, always on the take" - sounds like he might have been on to something.

Still, what a way to go...

Sectionfive
20-08-2011, 02:14 AM
Crikey



OpenLeaks-Founder wants to destroy WikiLeaks datas
Source: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/OpenLeaks-Gruender-wollen-Wikileaks-Dateien-loeschen-1326758.html The founder of the whistleblower platform OpenLeaks, Daniel Domscheit-Berg, now wants to destroy the datas taken along when leaving WikiLeaks completely. This was confirmed to heise online by the former companion of WikiLeaks-Boss Julian Assange. Before I take a risk for the sources I rather stay on the safe side´ said Domscheit-Berg on Friday. The files uploaded by an unknown whistleblower to WikiLeaks should be destroyed now under supervision of a notary. The former WikiLeaks activists around Domscheit-Berg also want to confirm the deletion with an affidavit. On Thursday Domscheit-Berg explained that he and his companions only want to destroy their keys for WikiLeaks and the files.ÄI do feel sorry for the WikiLeaks-Leaker but they have to send their material once again somewhere where they trust the system, Daniel Domscheit-Berg stated. Anything else would be too high of risk for the sources. But there should be many projects now worldwide giving the whistleblowers a safe leaking platform. OpenLeaks will be part of them. ÄThe safety of the sources always has top priority, then the project comes and at the end all the Egos which are existing obviously. Daniel Domscheit-Berg criticizes that WikiLeaks didn't care for along time about the files after his exit. He had closed down 4 servers sponsored by himself in September 2010 but saved and encrypted the files. Not until October they reacted and asked for a full copy of the Wiki with the already published material which they then received.He made the decision to do Ätabula rasa because everything seems to be out of control,Domscheit-Berg explained on Friday to heise online. Before that Julian Assange announced ina phone call to Spiegel journalist Holger Stark that he doesn't own a key for the files 'Backstage' Andy Müller-Maguhn, board member of the Chaos Computer Club, tried even on Friday morning to prevent the reaching out for the Delete key. Müller-Maguhn is considered to be the driving force behind the expulsion of Domscheit-Berg. They think the OpenLeaks founder tried to use the reputation of the association with his appearance at the Chaos Communication Camp 2011. If now, with the upcoming deletion under supervision of a notary, all files sent to WikiLeaks until September are lost is not clear. An insurance file published by WikiLeaks in end of July2010 is said to contain everything. Perhaps this 1,4 GB big packed file contains also the submissions by whistleblowers up till July 2010. Domscheit-Berg, back in that time a WikiLeaks spokesperson by the name of ÄDaniel Schmitt, announced to Freitag that he doesn't know the content of this data insurance.CCC-board member Müller-Maguhn can't come to terms with this behaviour of Domscheit-Berg. To heise online he emphasized that the source protection of WikiLeaks up till now always worked out and that the project never made mistakes. Furthermore one has to assume that every source took risks to leak the material to WikiLeaks for publishing. To ignore this wish by the sources is something I consider as a monstrosity particularly if that comes from someone who builds up a platform for transmission of files. So one has to ask in whose interests or by what moral standards Daniel Domscheit-Berg now acts.³

IdleRich
20-08-2011, 02:04 PM
Find that very hard to follow - is it a translation? If I understand it correctly then OpenLeaks want to destroy all the data that has been leaked to Wikileaks as they think it's potentially risky for the leakers, they want them to releak it to the more secure OpenLeaks, is that right?

luka
28-02-2012, 10:41 AM
anyfink interesting in the stratfor emails?