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View Full Version : Dissensus' Ethical Question of the Day



baboon2004
16-02-2011, 12:34 PM
#1 - If a friend has their wedding (for no discernible reason) in an apparently random and faraway city in the middle of the week, do I have to go? Or have they just succumbed to wedding madness?

Sectionfive
16-02-2011, 01:01 PM
Would they go to yours ?

baboon2004
16-02-2011, 01:29 PM
It's a fair question - she probably would, and I probably will end up going. But I would never make it so difficult for people to come to mine...

But i figure the communciation is mad. If you want people to come to your wedding (she lives in Oxford, btw), then make it relatively easy for them (transport and hotels don't cost nothing, after all). If you want to have a very small wedding with only a handful of people, only invite a few people. Inviting people but making it difficult for them is a sign of not knowing what you want, and doesn't make people feel as though you want them to be there, frankly. There's a small possibility there's a hidden reason I'm missing, but this is the kind of behaviour that makes me detest the whole idea of weddings....

Mr. Tea
16-02-2011, 01:41 PM
How good is the spread going to be? Will the bubbly be Dom P or cava?

Mr. Tea
16-02-2011, 01:44 PM
Call it materialism if you want, it's just a practical cost/benefit analysis.

zhao
16-02-2011, 01:45 PM
oh i thought it was going to be one of those

"you're on a train and if it goes ahead it will kill 5 workers but if you pull a lever and make the train go down a separate track..." or

"if you could go back in time and kill Margaret Thatcher..."

i quite like those.

Mr. Tea
16-02-2011, 01:47 PM
You still single, baboon? Is there much chance of some drunken bridesmaid action?

Corpsey
16-02-2011, 02:12 PM
Just tell her you'll turn up for her signing the divorce papers in about five years instead. ;)

nochexxx
16-02-2011, 02:38 PM
do what thou wilt. get's you into people's bad books but fuk it.

bandshell
16-02-2011, 04:11 PM
Grab a few friends.

Road Trip!

baboon2004
16-02-2011, 04:19 PM
You still single, baboon? Is there much chance of some drunken bridesmaid action?

Obviously this is indeed the main consideration. Sadly her really fit friend is married. Maybe there are others of whom I do not yet know?

Road trip is a good idea. Making it my annual drugs week is also a good idea.

IdleRich
16-02-2011, 04:41 PM
But you live in London don't you Baboon? I'd hardly call Oxford a "random and far away city" - well it may be random but you can be there in less than an hour on the train. It's closer than Cockfosters.

Mr. Tea
16-02-2011, 04:51 PM
Just tell her you'll turn up for her signing the divorce papers in about five years instead. ;)

This is the kind of honest, old-fashioned cynicism that I find so heartwarming. :)

Edit: Rich, baboon said his friend lives in Oxford but has chosen a 'random' city to get married in, which presumably excludes Oxford. Babs, how far are we talking? Are you going to have to catch a plane?

baboon2004
16-02-2011, 05:05 PM
But you live in London don't you Baboon? I'd hardly call Oxford a "random and far away city" - well it may be random but you can be there in less than an hour on the train. It's closer than Cockfosters.

Ah yes, the point I didn't explain - it's in Glasgow, for presently obscure reasons. On a Thursday. This is my main point.

bandshell
16-02-2011, 05:06 PM
A road trip is the best course of action.

Fancy dress is optional.

IdleRich
16-02-2011, 05:12 PM
"Ah yes, the point I didn't explain - it's in Glasgow, for presently obscure reasons. On a Thursday. This is my main point."
Ah, sorry, I get you. Well fuck her then - tell her you can't get the time off work.

IdleRich
16-02-2011, 05:15 PM
I think I'm still bitter about spending loads of money on a stag do in Estonia only for the couple in question to divorce a year or so later. I want my money back. When my friend got married again (an arranged marriage this time) I flat out refused to go on another stag do - I think everyone else did too.

baboon2004
16-02-2011, 05:25 PM
Haha - don't blame you in that instance. The problem is that I've never had any problems with the friend in question before, and it's disspiriting to think weddings can change someone's way of dealing with other people. Plus I don't like (any more) holding grudges against people that I can't really talk about (and in this situation it's difficult to talk about it)

Edit: If I ever get married, I'm having a do in London, will tell everyone specifically not to bother with wedding presents, but that they'll have to pay for their own drinks as on a normal night out, and then organise something really good with a modicum of free drugs per person.

Mr. Tea
16-02-2011, 05:51 PM
Ah yes, the point I didn't explain - it's in Glasgow, for presently obscure reasons. On a Thursday. This is my main point.

Oh jesus, I thought you meant it was in Rome or Istanbul or whatever... :(

baboon2004
16-02-2011, 05:54 PM
Oh no. I'd like to go to Glasgow, don't get me wrong, but it's the combination of too far to travel there and back in a day, and in midweek. Hotel costs, flight costs blah, residual resentment blah.

Mr. Tea
16-02-2011, 05:58 PM
I think I'm still bitter about spending loads of money on a stag do in Estonia only for the couple in question to divorce a year or so later. I want my money back. When my friend got married again (an arranged marriage this time) I flat out refused to go on another stag do - I think everyone else did too.

A couple of years ago my brother had this mad year when I think just over a dozen of his friends got married in one year - or more than than, as he knew both the bride and groom in several cases, but anyway I think he was doing more than one a month on average over the year. One couple got hitched in some stupendously expensive country-house hotel in the New Forest and another couple (both of them from, and living in, SE England) got married somewhere in the Scottish Highlands. Between travel and gifts he spent several grand. And the couple who had the most expensive bash did what your mate did, and got divorced less than a year later. I'd have been tempted to ask for the present back!

baboon2004
16-02-2011, 06:06 PM
God, people can be arses when it comes to weddings.

sufi
16-02-2011, 11:38 PM
Well, totally disagree with everybody on this one :D nothing better than than the random wedding destination - pamplona & georgia (us) in the last few years, also rejkyavic and even.... glasgow * in the past, all of them were so well worth the (massive & exhausting & pricy) efforts - my only regret is missing 2 others in philipines and tanzania 2010 & 08

looking fwd for ethical dissensus dilemma #2 tomoro!!

* o yeh - can you all guess which longtime dissenter - still happily wed after all these years x ?

Sick Boy
16-02-2011, 11:49 PM
Argh, this is actually a pet peeve of mine. I don't understand why couples do this to their friends and family. Hey! We're having a day/weekend that is entirely about us and how great it is to be either of us where you all politely stand around and agree, and because we completely DON'T take it for granted that we have anyone in the world who genuinely wants to participate in that, we'll make it as DIFFICULT AS POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO ATTEND.

In conclusion: of course you have to go. But you don't have to like it.

baboon2004
16-02-2011, 11:54 PM
Argh, this is actually a pet peeve of mine. I don't understand why couples do this to their friends and family. Hey! We're having a day/weekend that is entirely about us and how great it is to be either of us where you all politely stand around and agree, and because we completely DON'T take it for granted that we have anyone in the world who genuinely wants to participate in that, we'll make it as DIFFICULT AS POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO ATTEND.

In conclusion: of course you have to go. But you don't have to like it.

Was just trying to think of how to reply to Sufi, whose position I understand and agree with to an extent - it's the weird, passive-aggressive mode of communication used in these kind of wedding invites that really pisses me off. And you've hit nail on head there.

Ethical Dilemma #2 - ah shit, I've landed myself in it here, haven't I....

baboon2004
17-02-2011, 10:29 AM
Dissensus Ethical Question #2

If someone has wronged someone you know but aren't particularly close to (but who you like, but not that much), to what extent is it incumbent upon you to exact some measure of revenge upon that person?

I can't help but make these vague, sorry!

luka
17-02-2011, 11:20 AM
when i livd in uk you could gt to glasgow for 1 pound on mega bus.com you curmudgeounly old git... i thought when i saw this thread it was gonna be in hawaii

baboon2004
17-02-2011, 11:25 AM
Are you saying there's anything wrong with being a curmudgeon?

Hawaii has sunshine and waves.

STN
17-02-2011, 11:31 AM
Dissensus Ethical Question #2

If someone has wronged someone you know but aren't particularly close to (but who you like, but not that much), to what extent is it incumbent upon you to exact some measure of revenge upon that person?

I can't help but make these vague, sorry!

If the opportunity for vengeance presents itself, it would be churlish not to take it, but don't feel you have to make special arrangements.

as for #1, it's only Glasgow. I like a good wedding. Sneak in some Buckfast or something.

baboon2004
17-02-2011, 11:35 AM
True, but it is more the principle of clear communication and due concern for other people, rather than the location of the wedding, that is what bothers me most. Sure, Glasgow's near, relatively.

So you advocate a principle of spontaneous vengeance?

STN
17-02-2011, 11:56 AM
It doesn't strike me that you'll be making a great, principled stand if you don't go, to be honest.

Yes, I do, at least in the sort of case you outline in your query. And woe betide you if it turns out I know this woman and you upset her by failing to attend her wedding.

Slothrop
17-02-2011, 12:00 PM
As far as I'm concerned, having a wedding somewhere a bit random is fine - although if it's actually on the other side of the world, then you don't expect everyone to make the trip - but having one on a weekday is a bit random and annoying.

IdleRich
17-02-2011, 12:27 PM
"having one on a weekday is a bit random and annoying."
I actually think that the weekday thing is fine - it makes it a lot cheaper and I think that people are entitled to reduce the costs of what is already gonna be an expensive day. Though the combination of far and weekday makes it difficult I guess. Maybe you have to pick one or the other.


If someone has wronged someone you know but aren't particularly close to (but who you like, but not that much), to what extent is it incumbent upon you to exact some measure of revenge upon that person?
I think how incumbent on you it is to exact revenge is directly proportional to how much you like the wronged person multiplied by how badly they've been wronged.

Mr. Tea
17-02-2011, 12:34 PM
IdleRich presents: THE CALCULUS OF REVENGE!

john eden
17-02-2011, 01:46 PM
Dissensus Ethical Question #2

If someone has wronged someone you know but aren't particularly close to (but who you like, but not that much), to what extent is it incumbent upon you to exact some measure of revenge upon that person?

I can't help but make these vague, sorry!

Not incumbent at all, unless the injured party has made it plain that this would be welcomed.

Otherwise isn't revenge in this instance all about ego or wanting to be the hero?

baboon2004
17-02-2011, 02:09 PM
Not incumbent at all, unless the injured party has made it plain that this would be welcomed.

Otherwise isn't revenge in this instance all about ego or wanting to be the hero?

Isn't it usually? :confused:

mistersloane
21-02-2011, 09:43 AM
Dissensus Ethical Question #2

If someone has wronged someone you know but aren't particularly close to (but who you like, but not that much), to what extent is it incumbent upon you to exact some measure of revenge upon that person?

I can't help but make these vague, sorry!

Unless it's rape or perhaps burglary then I wouldn't really get involved.

You could get weirdly moral and exact a measure of revenge upon the person that you aren't particularly close to but like but not much, just for the fun of it, for making you have to think about such matters. An emetic in a pint of beer, that sort of thing.

baboon2004
21-02-2011, 12:14 PM
yes, that makes sense. to be honest, i've given up worrying about it - people can sort out their own medium-sized problems (generally speaking).

sufi
22-02-2011, 10:47 PM
Not incumbent at all, unless the injured party has made it plain that this would be welcomed.

Otherwise isn't revenge in this instance all about ego or wanting to be the hero?
What about solidarity in the face of adversity?

Sick Boy
22-02-2011, 11:38 PM
Unless the person is close, no obligation to exact revenge at all. Vengeance when done on someone else's behalf is actually a pretty intimate gesture. It says that you're willing to put yourself on the line for no other reason than to defend their honour. Not everyone deserves that.