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IdleRich
30-03-2011, 12:16 PM
Alright, I started the thread on noirs but recently I've realised that I enjoy a lot of (or at least some) later films that basically use the look and feel of a noir but which are slightly less formulaic and are ultimately a bit weirder. I guess I'm thinking of Chinatown, Alphaville, The American Soldier, Mickey One (although I actually hated that it fits the bill) and Brick. What else is there in this genre though? Can anyone suggest anything? The weirder the better I'd say. Also, has anyone seen the second version of The Big Sleep set in England with Robert Mitchum as Marlowe? Sounds kind of interesting although it's a tough one to improve on.

STN
30-03-2011, 12:36 PM
How odd, was just looking at the Wikipedia page for Altman's 'Long Goodbye', which it defines thus, and wondering what other 'Neo-noir' films there were. So that's my contribution: Altman's Long Goodbye.

crackerjack
30-03-2011, 12:39 PM
Alright, I started the thread on noirs but recently I've realised that I enjoy a lot (or at least some) later films that basically use the look and feel of a noir but which are slightly less formulaic and are ultimately a bit weirder. I guess I'm thinking of Chinatown, Alphaville, The American Soldier, Mickey One (although I actually hated that it fits the bill) and Brick. What else is there in this genre though? Can anyone suggest anything? The weirder the better I'd say. Also, has anyone seen the second version of The Big Sleep set in England with Robert Mitchum as Marlowe? Sounds kind of interesting although it's a tough one to improve on.

Big Sleep remake is terrible – google the director's name if you want to know why – but his Farewell My Lovely is pretty good. Altman's Long Goodbye is utterly amazing, but you probably know that already.

American Friend just about qualifies, and is excellent. I'd recommend Miller's Crossing but I seem to remember you foolishly don't like it.

Busy now but will think of more.

gumdrops
30-03-2011, 12:45 PM
body heat with kathleen turner.
(http://www.gothamjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/img/2009/01/body_heat_ver1.jpg)i love this film.

LA confidential too.

slim jenkins
30-03-2011, 12:53 PM
I second LA Confidential - amazing film.

The Man Who Wasn't There - Coen Bros, big favourite of mine.

crackerjack
30-03-2011, 01:02 PM
body heat with kathleen turner.
(http://www.gothamjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/img/2009/01/body_heat_ver1.jpg)i love this film.

LA confidential too.

oh yes, of course, to both those films

KT is smoking in Body Heat, even if it is a typically de Palma secondhand idea of what smoking looks like

IdleRich
30-03-2011, 01:09 PM
For some reason I've never seen The Long Goodbye or The Long Kiss Goodbye - I guess I just don't like long goodbyes. Sorry, that's absolutely beyond terrible, I should edit it out but I'm not going to.
American Friend is a Ripley one isn't it, I enjoyed that. Miller's Crossing is ok but I think it added ironic remove to the noir feel and little else. Man Who Wasn't There - why is that a neo-noir, didn't feel that way to me at all?
Dark City - I remember seeing that at the cinema. At the time I thought it was superior to The Matrix which had similar themes and came along fairly soon afterwards. It didn't have the same fx though and was maybe a bit more reliant on the philosophical themes which meant it was never going to be so popular - although on the other hand it had someone from Home and Away getting naked if I remember rightly which should have been a money-spinner.
Naked Lunch - I know what you're saying there, something about the feel of the mysterious man in Tangiers or wherever it is says noir to me.
LA Confidential was good, reminded me of The Big Sleep I think. I reckon I'll try the remake anyway despite your advice Crackerjack - I'm sure it's rubbish but I'd like to compare. Similarly Obsession by De Palma which sounds as though it's almost a remake of Vertigo. You have to be brave or stupid (or greedy I suppose) to fuck with films such as those.
Also this is a neo-noir I guess

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085226/

And how about Who Framed Roger Rabbit? That was great when I was little, does it still stand up?

IdleRich
30-03-2011, 01:19 PM
I'm not bad - I was just drawn that way


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFCIaMyMORg

IdleRich
30-03-2011, 01:21 PM
That must have been influenced by Ralph Bakshi's Coonskin but I digress.

IdleRich
30-03-2011, 01:33 PM
"Big Sleep remake is terrible – google the director's name if you want to know why"
Ah, I see, it was Michael Loser. Maybe I won't bother then.

IdleRich
30-03-2011, 01:51 PM
Good call. I love that film and the book as well. That's exactly the kind of thing I'm after. Has anyone ever made a film out of City of Glass? I know a few Auster books have been adapted.

JohnCalvert
18-05-2011, 06:57 AM
To Die For
The Last Seduction
The Two Jakes (More Retro Noir than Neo)
Insomnia
Cool World

The Naked Lunch is noir cuz of the art direction (40's no-time) and the costumes. You could say the same about Bladerunner, and Dark City.

IdleRich
18-05-2011, 07:31 PM
Yeah, agreed re Bladerunner and Naked Lunch. I watched Body Heat and it reminded me a lot of The Last Seduction so I guess that's in. Two Jakes is, to damn with faint praise, not quite as bad as everyone says... To Die For, is that the Nicole Kidman thing? Not sure that counts. Didn't really have that feel to me - I guess it's the femme fatale thing you're referring to here but can't remember much else that felt noiry (there's a horrible word) to me.
What's Cool World?

STN
18-05-2011, 09:19 PM
Night Moves is a good one.

JohnCalvert
19-05-2011, 08:33 AM
Yeah, agreed re Bladerunner and Naked Lunch. I watched Body Heat and it reminded me a lot of The Last Seduction so I guess that's in. Two Jakes is, to damn with faint praise, not quite as bad as everyone says... To Die For, is that the Nicole Kidman thing? Not sure that counts. Didn't really have that feel to me - I guess it's the femme fatale thing you're referring to here but can't remember much else that felt noiry (there's a horrible word) to me.
What's Cool World?

Like The Last Seduction, To Die For doesn't have that noirish shroud of atmosphere, moody lighting and such, but like all neo noir it is caustic and packs a dim view of humanity. only as defines neo-noir, the protagonists have modern desires. Kidman's holy grail is a good career in TV.

IdleRich
21-05-2011, 01:49 PM
I dunno, from what I remember (which may not be very much) I would have said that The Last Seduction is nearer to having that noirish atmosphere. Also, I think that in The Last Seduction you are kind of expected to identify with the main character which makes Linda Fiorentino's character a genuine femme fatale, in To Die For there is really only Kidman's character whose place you might be able to put yourself in and I can't think of any noirs off the top of my head where the main character is the femme fatale. Doesn't mean that there aren't any though I suppose.

mistersloane
22-05-2011, 06:01 PM
I love The Last Seduction. I still use that 'what does a girl have to suck around here to get a drink' line in bars.

Sick Boy
26-05-2011, 05:11 AM
A lot of recommendations here!:

http://www.theyshootpictures.com/noirneo.htm

IdleRich
26-05-2011, 05:29 PM
Yep, looks as though there are a fair few to get my teeth into there. I watched The Curse of the Jade Scorpion last night which is a Woody Allen thing where he plays an insurance investigator who always solves his case by his instincts - very much like the guy in Double Indemnity basically. The similarities basically end there though as this is just a slight detective story/rom com decorated with a few bits of forties scenery and clothing. Superficially appears like a neo-noir but really just borrows the look in an attempt to add atmosphere. Passed the time but there's not that much there to be honest, like a lot of other Woody Allen films to be honest.

crackerjack
26-05-2011, 08:39 PM
A lot of recommendations here!:

http://www.theyshootpictures.com/noirneo.htm

weird list - how does Usual Suspects get in there?

Sick Boy
27-05-2011, 01:57 AM
Oh, they sort of explain that in the introduction. They admit they are going off of a more broad definition of "noir." They provide these three quotes to give you an idea of their criteria:


"Film noir is not a genre....It is not defined, as are the western and gangster genres, by conventions of setting and conflict, but rather by the more subtle qualities of tone and mood. It is a film "noir," as opposed to the possible variants of film gray and off white." - Paul Schrader, Notes on Film Noir, Film Comment, 1972



"Film Noir is a historical, stylistic and thematic trend that took place primarily, but not exclusively, within the generic complex of the American crime film of the forties and fifties. The term was first introduced by French cinéaste Nino Frank in 1946. For many years it was known only to the French, who seemed to be the only ones equipped (critically or otherwise) to grapple with its definition and/or historical implications." - Spencer Selby (Dark City: The Film Noir; 1984)


"Film Noir is the flip side of the all-American success story. It's about people who realize that following the program will never get them what they crave. So they cross the line, commit a crime and reap the consequences. Or, they're tales about seemingly innocent people tortured by paranoia and ass-kicked by Fate. Either way, they depict a world that's merciless and unforgiving." - Eddie Muller