New College of the Humanities

IdleRich

IdleRich
Haven't seen a thread about this but it's quite a weird/interesting development that seems to have kicked up a storm and pissed off a lot of people. Unsurprisingly as most of these professors seem to be or claim to be on the left but look as though they are going to make some money from ushering in a system of paying for education.
For those who haven't seen:

A new private university in London staffed by some of the world's most famous academics is to offer degrees in the humanities, economics and law from 2012 at a cost of £18,000 a year, double the normal rate.
The Oxbridge-style university college aims to educate a new British elite with compulsory teaching in science literacy, critical thinking, ethics and professional skills on top of degree subjects taught in one-to-one tutorials.
Its first master will be the philosopher AC Grayling, and top teachers from Harvard, Princeton, Oxford and Cambridge will include Richard Dawkins teaching evolutionary biology and science literacy, Niall Ferguson teaching economics and economic history and Steven Pinker teaching philosophy and psychology.
New College of the Humanities, based in Bloomsbury, is being backed by private funding and will aim to make a profit. It will offer some scholarships, with assisted places being granted to one in five of the first 200 students.
Grayling said he was motivated in part by fears that government cuts to university humanities and arts courses could leave "the fabric of society poorer as a result".
"Society needs us to be thoughtful voters, good neighbours, loving parents and responsible citizens," he said. "If we are to discover and inspire the next generation of lawyers, journalists, financiers, politicians, civil servants, writers, artists and teachers, we need to educate to the highest standards and with imagination, breadth and depth."
The college aims to attract candidates with at least three A grades at A-level with the promise of more direct teaching than at traditional universities. The student-teacher ratio will be better than 10 to one and there will be 12 to 13 hours' contact with teachers each week.
Graduates will come away with a degree from the University of London and a separate diploma from the college to reflect the additional course that includes practical professional skills such as financial literacy, teamwork, presentation and strategy.
Other teachers signed up include Sir David Cannadine, a history lecturer at Princeton; Ronald Dworkin QC, a leading constitutional lawyer teaching at University College London and New York University; and Steve Jones, a leading geneticist. Lawrence Krauss, professor of Earth and space exploration and physics at Arizona state university, who has advised Barack Obama on science policy, will teach cosmology and science literacy.
One of the backers is Charles Watson, chairman of the City PR firm Financial Dynamics. He said: "Higher education in the UK must evolve if it is to offer the best quality experience for students and safeguard our future economic and intellectual wealth. New College offers a different model – one that brings additional, private sector funding into higher education in the humanities when it is most needed, and combines scholarships and tuition fees."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/jun/05/new-university-college-humanities-degrees

There seem to be a number of controversies above and beyond the fact that it could be the start of a two-tier education system. Off the top of my head:

1. You get a University of London degree that you can get elsewhere for half the price.
2. They claim to be offering scholarships for the disadvantaged but this seems to be predicated on the idea that the government will give grants up to the first £9k whereas the government say that they won't give any grants to students at universities that charge above the £9k cap.
3. Some of the "star" lecturers are only going to teach for one hour in the first year.
4. The course descriptions for their courses have been copied off the websites of a number of other institutions which are accredited by University of London.

I'm sure there are more things... any thoughts?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Isn't it quite likely that employers are just going to look at graduates from this place as rich kids who went there because they couldn't get into Oxbridge/UCL/LSE?

Getting a "University of London" degree is all very well but an employer or another university is obviously going to know which actual college you went to.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Dunno what the entrance requirements are gonna be - presumably at least as high as Oxbridge I guess if they are serious about competing with them. It's small and probably will be attractive so they can be picky.
 

grizzleb

Well-known member
Grayling is a fanny, he was my personal tutor this year and couldn't be bothered replying to my emails about my meeting him to discuss how I was getting on (we were emailed and told we should arrange meetings with our personal tutors). Hope he treats his new students a bit better than that if they're paying 18k a year.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I don't give a fuck about this and am amazed at the vitriol and space given over to the reaction against it.

Once you start allowing Universities to charge what they like, this is what will happen. It is inevitable.

For all Dawkins and Grayling's cuddly humanism I don't think they've ever pretended to be raging anti-capitalists.

But having said, that -fuck them anyway.

But also a big "fuck you" to anyone who expects UK Universities to be bastions of fairness and equality in the 21st Century.

Open source free/cheap education FTW.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Is it inevitable? I mean, it's always been the case that a college could set itself up privately and charge money to its students hasn't it? What made it happen now - the fact that "normal" universities are charging already?
I wonder what Grayling's motivation is - surely if it was just money then he could get more from boshing out a book or whatever, but on the other hand it it's just about academic standards it can't be right to charge so much.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Isn't it quite likely that employers are just going to look at graduates from this place as rich kids who went there because they couldn't get into Oxbridge/UCL/LSE?

Getting a "University of London" degree is all very well but an employer or another university is obviously going to know which actual college you went to.

Tbh, some employers probably won't have a fucking clue/won't read the small print, at least when shortlisting.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Is it inevitable? I mean, it's always been the case that a college could set itself up privately and charge money to its students hasn't it? What made it happen now - the fact that "normal" universities are charging already?
I wonder what Grayling's motivation is - surely if it was just money then he could get more from boshing out a book or whatever, but on the other hand it it's just about academic standards it can't be right to charge so much.

I think he's just spotted a gap in the market, or thinks he has. If people will pay 9 grand then why not double that for a more "exclusive" audience...
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I don't give a fuck about this and am amazed at the vitriol and space given over to the reaction against it.

Once you start allowing Universities to charge what they like, this is what will happen. It is inevitable.

For all Dawkins and Grayling's cuddly humanism I don't think they've ever pretended to be raging anti-capitalists.

But having said, that -fuck them anyway.

But also a big "fuck you" to anyone who expects UK Universities to be bastions of fairness and equality in the 21st Century.

Open source free/cheap education FTW.

Agree generally, but isn't there a bit of a descriptive/prescriptive distinction to be made here? I think that a lot of people are (a) not surprised from a pragmatic angle that it's come to this, partic those working within the uni system, but (b) are still outraged/think it shouldn't be happening/shocked at the sheer brazenness of it.

The extent to which (many) employers overrate university degrees is my own personal bugbear. How many impossibly stupid/vapid ppl did I meet who walked out with an Oxbridge degree? A fucking lot....
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I think John's right, this is just a more explicit case of what's happening (has happened) in higher education generally.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Grayling is a fanny, he was my personal tutor this year and couldn't be bothered replying to my emails about my meeting him to discuss how I was getting on (we were emailed and told we should arrange meetings with our personal tutors). Hope he treats his new students a bit better than that if they're paying 18k a year.

Aren't they getting 1 personal tutorial a week or something, isn't that part of the draw? I got that in the mid-90s for nothing (except living expenses)! Ludicrous.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Anyways, point is that load sof ppl at Uni of London are pissed off because this is muddying the waters between private and public universities, just at a time when loadas of ppl at UoL are being made to reapply for their own jobs/persuaded to take early retirement.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I wonder what Grayling's motivation is - surely if it was just money then he could get more from boshing out a book or whatever, but on the other hand it it's just about academic standards it can't be right to charge so much.

Fame/ego, I should imagine.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I guess a bit of fame, a bit of money and, if all goes according to plan, a few well-educated students. What's not to like? From his point of view at least. I get the impression that the strength of the anger they've encountered has surprised them though. I read the other day that Dawkins had distanced himself from the actual creation of the college on his website but I can't find those remarks on there now. Maybe because he's a shareholder so the remarks are obviously bollocks.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
I wonder what Grayling's motivation is - surely if it was just money then he could get more from boshing out a book or whatever, but on the other hand it it's just about academic standards it can't be right to charge so much.
I'd imagine that it's partly an indirect riposte to the ongoing insinuation throughout the tuition fees debate that while engineering, statistics, biochemistry and so on are useful subjects that do good for the nation, the humanities basically contribute nothing to society apart from a way for thick kids to stay off the dole for three years while watching daytime TV and smoking pot. Creating a prestigious college dedicated specifically to the humanities which will, presumably, have academically able, hard working and well taught alumni going off and doing impressive things with themselves would provide something of a counterpoint to that...

It's interesting that everyone's slating Grayling and Dawkins, though. Is it just taken as read that Niall Ferguson's an odious pissflap?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Ignoring the fees aspect for a moment, it kind of makes sense in that London already has several schools/colleges/unis dedicated to other subjects, i.e. Imperial for nat sci, engineering and medicine, LSE for economics and political science, RADA for dramatic arts, SOAS for...OAS, I guess.

Though there's plenty of crossover, of course...wonder how worried LSE, UCL, Birkbeck etc. are about having their best staff poached by the prospect of higher wages?

Edit: I don't know much about Ferguson but that's the second time I've seen him called 'odious' on here...
 

luka

Well-known member
fereguson is oliver craners favourite historian. i still got an email he snt me which reads 'been reading empire, its well wicked. hes a really cool guy with an interesting spin on things and just knows so many FACTS. totally awesome i really reccomend it.'
 
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