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mistersloane
03-08-2011, 12:52 AM
Where did they go? There aren't any male homosexuals in pop anymore. They got replaced by heterosexual women saying it was great to be a gay man, but where did the gay men go?

I think the last one was kinda Will Young, and maybe that little Geordie lad off X Factor. Did they decide that the market demographic was such that gay men make better Consumers than Producers? Or did they all go off into presenting children's TV?

Where did the gays go?

They even killed Stephen Gately off in their homo pop purda. Did the A-Gays become too successful, and have kept the youngers down? Is it a massive A-Gay conspiracy?

It's even OK to be (Robbie and Gary) gay if you're straight, but no.

If you're real, you're concealed.

Where did they go?

Ulala
03-08-2011, 10:33 AM
Hmm, I'm pretty sure Ricky Martin's career flatlined after coming out so perhaps there is more reticence among artists these days? Off the top of my head there is still Adam Lambert (who was on American Idol, and who is successful in the US, if not elsewhere) and as mentioned earlier, the Scissor Sisters fella and Will Young.

Isn't it the case that most of the significant gay performers of the past were also writers as well? I'm thinking Pet Shop Boys, Frankie, Erasure... you could also include Elton John and Freddie Mercury, though neither were actually 'out' at the time of their greatest success. (Despite widespread public knowledge of the fact.) Erm... Luther Vandross? Anyway, these guys wrote enormously popular songs, and it's those by which a pop star is made - the X-Factor guy (Joe McElderry) won the show, after all, so the public obviously liked his voice and had no issue with his sexuality: it was the piss-poor quality of his singles that doomed him (and they were written by committee, as is often the way these days, and probably goes to prove my point, I expect).

In short, then: I don't know why. I do believe that straight 'pop' is a dying breed, though. The all powerful urban/R&B juggernaut has eclipsed it, and I'm pretty sure most mainstream gay clubs are now playing Rihanna and Jason DeRulo just like any mainstream straight/mixed clubs do.

luka
03-08-2011, 11:22 AM
not much r&b in the charts nowadays. rhianna sounds like pink singing over old eurodance records.

Mr. Tea
03-08-2011, 11:29 AM
50 Cent?

mistersloane
03-08-2011, 11:36 AM
It'd be great if 50 was a batty.

I'm not sure if the hypothesis is true, is it? It just came up after 15 pints the other day and seemed like a good idea.

I think certainly alot of pop has been queered so maybe it's not the challenge it once was. Scissor Sisters good call though, I'd forgotten about them. Looking back it just seems like everyone in the 80s was gay and now they've all disappeared from mainstream view. I guess you could argue thus that male homosexuality is having a second underground. Or maybe co-option has proved that shopping is more fun.

And yeah maybe Ulalla they are taking behind the scenes roles as writers rather than being up front, maybe it co-incides with the rise of the solo female artist.

baboon2004
03-08-2011, 11:37 AM
Lil B?

mistersloane
03-08-2011, 11:42 AM
Lil B?

I think him and OF and that girl will definitely be seen as the game changers with hiphop on that front, not sure if he's a batty tho, just batty-wise I think.

Dr Awesome
03-08-2011, 11:48 AM
I'm sure it's cos all the stuff they play on mainstream "rock" stations is now officially homosexual.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60GKTp0pf1A


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJKOg_KWkZs&ob=av2e

Ulala
03-08-2011, 12:03 PM
not much r&b in the charts nowadays. rhianna sounds like pink singing over old eurodance records.

Innit, but the point is it still gets called r&b regardless of whether it sounds like it or not. Pick up your average 'best of r&b' cd and there's no, let's say, Teedra Moses or Jazmine Sullivan, but there is JLS, Rihanna, etc. In the eyes of the industry and (most of) the public, r&b (or more accurately, 'urban') is anything made by young black people that could be danced to.

Anyway, I suppose my argument is that the eurodance elements are probably partly responsible for the crossover of this music into the gay club scene and the related erosion of gay artists making traditional pop music.

mistersloane
03-08-2011, 12:12 PM
Anyway, I suppose my argument is that the eurodance elements are probably partly responsible for the crossover of this music into the gay club scene and the related erosion of gay artists making traditional pop music.

Maybe the borg like assimilation is complete and all male pop homosexuals have moved off to colonise another planet. It took 20 years of hammering home bad euro in gay clubs before it finally took over the world, mission ended.

pattycakes
03-08-2011, 12:36 PM
And yeah maybe Ulalla they are taking behind the scenes roles as writers rather than being up front, maybe it co-incides with the rise of the solo female artist.

probably stating the obvious here but the gays have been behind the scenes running the business side of the industry since the 50s.

first thing that came to mind when i saw the thread title was that there's barely any distinguishable difference between hetero and homo in the male pop singer world

edited.

BareBones
03-08-2011, 12:37 PM
Is that guy Antony (of the Johnsons) gay? how about that Rufus Wainwright fella?

BareBones
03-08-2011, 12:38 PM
Plus it's way worse in the film industry right? How many openly gay actors can you name? I can only think of Rupert Everett

muser
03-08-2011, 12:56 PM
Is that guy Antony (of the Johnsons) gay? how about that Rufus Wainwright fella?

I'm pretty sure he is bisexual he got with both the chicks (sisters) in coco rosie, apparently not sure if thats a lie.

Benny B
03-08-2011, 01:02 PM
that dude out of bloc party is gay isn't he? lame example admittedly...

Roshman
03-08-2011, 01:06 PM
How has Mika not been mentioned?

Mr. Tea
03-08-2011, 01:53 PM
How has Mika not been mentioned?

Because we're talking about ordinary gays and Mika is, like, THUPERGAY!

Ulala
03-08-2011, 01:54 PM
How has Mika not been mentioned?

Presumably because others, like I did, have installed a complex system of mnemonic blocks to erase any memory of his caterwauling. He is, technically, I suppose, a gifted singer. But his songs, ugh.

mistersloane
03-08-2011, 02:47 PM
Because we're talking about ordinary gays and Mika is, like, THUPERGAY!

That really made me laugh.

Mika's like the living gay atavist. But good call on mentioning him, and Rufus.

I don't think Anthony counts, he's post-queer-homo-next-gen. Maybe he ATE all the gay people.

I loved it when Mika's sister threw herself out of their house onto some railings. I knew just how she felt.

Mr. Tea
03-08-2011, 02:54 PM
Wasn't one of Junior Senior gay? Haha, talk about blast from the very recent past.

Speaking of co-option, would it be fair to say that Lady Gaga is her own fantasy idea of what every gay man's secret fantasy self looks like?



I loved it when Mika's sister threw herself out of their house onto some railings. I knew just how she felt.

Was she a 'big' girl that he felt the need to constantly reassure was beautiful, *despite* her bigness?

gumdrops
03-08-2011, 03:19 PM
yeah kele from bloc partys gay, so is anthony hegarty. rufus wainwright is gay but is he 'pop'? not sure. not sure who else. i suppose well find out who in the charts is gay in 15 or so years.

Littlefoot
03-08-2011, 10:09 PM
There are probably tonnes, but don't feel the need to mention it..

blacktulip
04-08-2011, 07:31 PM
I'm pretty sure he is bisexual he got with both the chicks (sisters) in coco rosie, apparently not sure if thats a lie.

Now I KNOW I'm on the Internet.

Mr. Tea
04-08-2011, 11:06 PM
There are probably tonnes, but don't feel the need to mention it..

This guy's keeping it under his hat pretty well, I reckon:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbGkxcY7YFU

gumdrops
05-08-2011, 09:00 AM
i remember reading a take that review in timeout i think where they said tht they now sound far too 'serious' (read: hetro, apparently) compared to their earlier material which was much more in the somewhat gay/lighter mould.

SecondLine
05-08-2011, 09:46 PM
There are probably tonnes, but don't feel the need to mention it..

yeah, i wouldn't claim to be anything other than a vastly under-informed amateur theorist on this issue but maybe what you're talking about is the total un-tethering of 'camp' from 'gay'?

plenty of camp as fuck pop music around (tbh, most of it lately, even when it tries to be macho) but it's no longer consistently associated with gay community/gay individuals like it was in the 80s.

speaking of which, great article in one of those loops journals applying susan sontag's notes on camp to uber-macho hip-hop. might have to dig that out.

SecondLine
05-08-2011, 09:50 PM
e.g. some idle googling suggests that basement jaxx aren't gay.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHCf4dQDOCs

mistersloane
06-08-2011, 03:33 AM
yeah, i wouldn't claim to be anything other than a vastly under-informed amateur theorist on this issue but maybe what you're talking about is the total un-tethering of 'camp' from 'gay'?

plenty of camp as fuck pop music around (tbh, most of it lately, even when it tries to be macho) but it's no longer consistently associated with gay community/gay individuals like it was in the 80s.

speaking of which, great article in one of those loops journals applying susan sontag's notes on camp to uber-macho hip-hop. might have to dig that out.

Yes please SL, if you got a link that'd be great. That's kinda what I was asking in a roundabout way. I know that the idea was to 'gay-ify' mainstream culture, and it just seems like it happened, and what I'd like to know is where the gays have gone.

I mean, I know where the queer punks have gone, they're off listening to armageddoncore and Berlin-ing, but I kinda wonder what the mainstream lot are up to. It must be weird to be assimilated that entirely, even if that was the idea in the first place. It does make me think of the Borg.

SecondLine
06-08-2011, 11:00 AM
here you go, not all entirely relevant but a good read all the same -

http://www3.waterstones.com/wat/images/special/promo/samdaviesarticle.pdf

although maybe this bit answers your original question:

"There’s no need to whisper rumours on internet forums, start YouTube beefs, or
pre-empt innuendo because, in terms of much of their mental furniture...everyone
in hip hop is gay – at least a little bit."

IdleRich
06-08-2011, 11:30 AM
Jessie J is gay apparently.

muser
06-08-2011, 11:39 AM
http://westcoastpioneers.com/uploads/pics/cover_world_class_wreckin_cru_world_class_kru_cut_ kc_004_1985_lp_f.jpg

JWoulf
06-08-2011, 12:24 PM
r'n'b guys taking on a gangsta persona snuffed the gay out, cause part of the stereotype is to be homophobic, which is apparently accepted.

CrowleyHead
06-08-2011, 01:12 PM
Which is funny, because despite all their homophobia, everyone in hip-hop/R&B is so broken-wristed it's hilarious.

Vaguely remember Chris Brown saying he had songs on his album for the gay community, and his audience who stood by him after Rhi-Rhi-Gate were fairly appalled. Amusing-ish.

JWoulf
06-08-2011, 02:52 PM
Which is funny, because despite all their homophobia, everyone in hip-hop/R&B is so broken-wristed it's hilarious.


Not sure i agree, they may have some of the feminine traits homophobes like to call gay; but the music pretty much only consist of tunes celebrating heterosexuality. Rappers on the other hand have lots of tunes calling women bitches and about their love of men.

But i'm thinking the lack of gays in pop might be a result of a cultural acceptance, making homosexuality less provocative, and thus less interesting. Theres no FGTH any more, instead we have Mika and Scissors Scisters, both 'flaming' of course, but also quite boring in their celebration of a culture that now seems a gay cliché.

SecondLine
06-08-2011, 06:36 PM
But i'm thinking the lack of gays in pop might be a result of a cultural acceptance, making homosexuality less provocative, and thus less interesting.

fair point. If you were taking a scrooge-like, Reynoldsian stance you could say that that's a problem afflicting a lot of pop from the last decade...looking for boundaries to transgress but failing to find any, making everything end up kind of tepid.

The recent exception to that I can think of is odd future, where paradoxically 'breaking the last taboo' seems to involve ramping up the homophobia even further.

Incidentally the usual justification for tyler's epic gaybashing - that it's 'a character', or an 'ironic critique of homophobia in hip-hop' etc. - chimes well with the above article about hip-hop & camp..

"Camp sees everything in quotation marks"

It may not seem like it but I sit on the fence when it comes to OF, just playing devil's advocate.

mistersloane
07-08-2011, 01:44 PM
here you go, not all entirely relevant but a good read all the same -

http://www3.waterstones.com/wat/images/special/promo/samdaviesarticle.pdf

although maybe this bit answers your original question:

"There’s no need to whisper rumours on internet forums, start YouTube beefs, or
pre-empt innuendo because, in terms of much of their mental furniture...everyone
in hip hop is gay – at least a little bit."

Thanks. I like this bit :

"So hip hop Camp is like a mutant Camp, Camp gone wrong – a new kind of Camp which bears the same relationship to the original as the Y chromosome does to the X: a malformed variant of the original."

61

CrowleyHead
07-08-2011, 02:17 PM
Invoking the Dre pic makes it all better. "I Need A Doctor" was subliminally one of the most homo-erotic records in years. Two guys endlessly pontificating about how much they love each other, Dre reciting Eminem's lyrics of telling foes to kiss his 'indecisive ass crack'.

@JWoulf; I don't know if that's right though. The message is one thing but if you look at the poses most of these artists make, it's a general vibe of 'the less masculine you are, the more successful you shall be'. Hence a young non-person like Big Sean who appears more obsessed with wearing clothes than any girl he'll meet is on a higher pedestal than say, Pusha-T and Cyhi.

Also, that's forgetting the whole stretch of the Atlanta Futuristic movement. The message was hetero, but a bunch of teen black kids in tight-fitting clothing singing in cartoonish high-pitched voices is obviously NOT the most masculine of rap.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bhWP-Q2O_qw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1WFB_LXLib8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/laKZgVdbj2U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I mean, a lot of this movement as petered out, and the biggest stars in this whole style have drained a lot of the fey-qualities out (Travis Porter & Future), but it was a hilarious event.

Mr. Tea
07-08-2011, 04:24 PM
I think even before you consider the lyrical content, it's clear that one of the easiest ways (as a man) to look as camp as tits is to go out of your way to look as macho as possible. I mean come on, all those gleaming pecs and biceps, baggy pants that show off your arse and a shitload of flashy jewellery...

Damien
09-08-2011, 12:54 PM
http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2009/galleries/ai_kids/adam_lambert_a_300x400.jpg