Pirates during the London riots.

No clue, but I was wondering what the grime scene would make of this

little mention of it all on air, from what i heard. altho Shanti has just clarified that a track called 'goods' isn't condoning looting!

as a side-note: I think London pirate radio is generally pretty boring now, tbh. there's still some great DJs and MCs, of course, but bland house and minimal has really taken over, with DJs seeming to see it all as a stepping stone to Pacha or wherever.

there's a lack of energy to most pirate shows now. it's nothing compared to the vibe of 5 or 10 years ago. you now have to be quite careful to pick out a few shows to get anything worth listening to - you used to be able to just switch on the radio at random. it makes me quite sad.

This show was happening while things were kicking off.

Elijah & Skilliam feat Trim


Trim briefly touched on it a few times.

Rinse has been off for the past couple of days though, only come back on this afternoon.

@simon its hard 2 broadcast exciting radio without exciting music going on atm

Scratcha was talking about it Monday morning if Rinse still counts.

Elijah said:

@Simon its hard 2 broadcast exciting radio without exciting music going on atm

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apologies for the sycophancy, but you seem to be managing it alright!

I went looking on google for wiley tweets, but all i found was a rather ugly beef he had with jay sean...

i thought there would be something about it but not heard much

thought something might be said on the marcus show last night but nothing

youd think nothing happened - it was pretty fucking weird listening to the show carrying on just as normal - feels almost like pirate/semi pirate radio like rinse is kinda disconnected a bit - a station like rinse should really be having debates about it.

youd think the artists might have some sort of opinion on it but doesnt look like many of them do

maybe theyre playing it safe

or maybe they just have no way of articulating themselves when it comes to something like this (wileys tweets are neither here nor there). wouldnt be surprising, when you consider that most political grime tracks arent all that good, esp not compared to hip hop (in its prime anyway).

anyway i did a bit of homework for you good ppl on dissensus:

terror danjah
TerrorDanjah Terror Danjah
I know it ain't right but, England been looting other countries for centuries, so why do expect the kids do better, THINK ABOUT IT???

Bashy Bashy
by Davinche
This has now reached Birmingham & Liverpool. I can't believe my eyes...Its no longer the London Riots, its the English Riots.

Donaeo Donaeo Zephron
by Davinche
THE DAMAGE WE CAUSE TODAY WILL LAST ALOT LONGER THAN THE COUPLE OF DAYS IT TOOK TO DISTROY EVERYTHING PLS THINK BEFORE U ACT
8 Aug Favorite Retweet Reply

Davinche Davinche Canvas
Africa's holding comic relief for London

djlogansama Logan Sama
These riots are just like holding up a carnival mirror in front of society.
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Logan Sama
djlogansama Logan Sama
We have turned into a race of thieves, short cutters and selfish people who don't respect others or the world around us enough.

djlogansama Logan Sama
The fact that the news seems obsessed with finding out how these people are being punished. That's why there is a problem in the 1st place.

MARCUSNASTY Marcus Ramsay
I've seen people on here who are thieves, drug dealers etc all making comments about the rioters SHUT UP you are part of the problem too

MARCUSNASTY Marcus Ramsay
@
@FunkButcher stop trying to act like a saint I bet u looted ur school tuck shop & @AlizaeDPMO had an ASBO banning him from buying matches

MRGOLDIE Goldie
by jakeshench
I think youts today have to really understand how lucky we really are in this country compared to absolute poverty in other places?!?

jammerbbk Jammer
@
@Jpizzledizzle I'm not sure all I can say is I don't condone the looting at all end of. The Government don't connect with the youth

jammerbbk Jammer
@
@baby_liyah0 I come from the ends worked & made something but I'm one of little that get a chance. I know how hard it is to get out the hood

jammerbbk Jammer
@
@baby_liyah0 they shouldn't have to when other kids get everything. I don't like talking to small minded people so drop me out now pls

jammerbbk Jammer
@
@spencer_stils @wretch32 it's just true some one has to understand the youts they don't get a chance out here do u know how hard it is 4 dem

Yeah Jammer and Funkbutcher were talking a good bit of sense on twitter, without pontificating. Alex Nut wrote a letter.

Assumed it would fall under Rinse's remit now with their community status and the stuff that was in their licence application.
They would have a much better insight then the beeb at the moment.

they missed a real opportunity

wiley and skepta were also on it - skepta supporting the clean up in tottenham etc...
elijah was sharp as usual

Bok Bok shoulda got Boris on, calm things down.

simon's post triggered a train of though...

i didn't really talk about it (beyond a brief mention) on rinse last sunday cos i wasn't really sure what i made of it all. would definitely address it this week but not doing the show cos we're playing boomtown fair.

i've seen and engaged with loads of people in music / on radio talking about it

two music pieces on the riots
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/aug/14/krissi-murison-punk-pop-riots

the funny thing reading this was that i thought 'well road rap and grime talk about whats going on' and i eye rolled when she talks about tyler from OF as the best representative of angry youth but then she says this:

I'm not dissing Tyler: unlike Strummer, he didn't ask to be a mouthpiece for a generation. And like the kids torching and looting family-run shops in their own neighbourhoods, he's the first to concede he doesn't have anything much to say. He just likes causing a disturbance, however pointless. This, though, is apparently what rebellion sounds like in 2011: dead-eyed, mob-like and opportunistic.

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and its largely right. yes kids have plenty to be angry about, but they dont seem able to articulate it that well. grime for the most part had loads of anger and frustration which made for great music and it reflects the somewhat directionless (apart from at the police) anger a lot of kids feel but if youre looking for politically directed anger, it doesnt seem to have that many examples. or at least, and i know this is subjective, examples where it translates to good songs. i think partly thats something to do with depoliticisation in areas where there used to be that, but also just the wider musical climate of talking about Big Subjects being a bad thing or something to be cynical about.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/aug/12/rap-riots-professor-green-lethal-bizzle-wiley?CMP=twt_gu
some good quotes in this one - the wiley quote in particular seems spot on. if he was out there rioting, they would wanna take him down so they could brag about it.

dont imagine many of the post-riot songs cited are all that great though. which is sort of what counts as far as this thread. i mean, writing and recordings songs about riots when theyve barely ended seems a bit too quick.

It's an age-old argument – one that most will never change their views about – but the case that music with morally unpalatable messages merely reflects reality, rather than glamourises or incites amorality, needs to be reaffirmed more than ever.

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i know this is the liberal, and has been the rapper-endorsed viewpoint far as i can remember, but i think while its def the former, the latter isnt totally void. it does reflect it. but it glamourises it somewhat too. if it didnt, if all it was was a sobering reality check, we prob wouldnt listen to it.

gumdrops said:

and its largely right. yes kids have plenty to be angry about, but they dont seem able to articulate it that well. grime for the most part had loads of anger and frustration which made for great music and it reflects the somewhat directionless (apart from at the police) anger a lot of kids feel but if youre looking for politically directed anger, it doesnt seem to have that many examples.

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so I haven't followed this all as closely as British people (tho probably closer than most Americans), and I know music journos are prone to making hackneyed comparisons + vacuous sweeping observations but that one is particularly bad. angry teenagers are never able to articulate their feelings, or not never but it's exceedingly rare. Joe Strummer was 25 in 1977, Tyler was 18 or 19 when OF began their rise to fame. that's a huge difference. actually a lot of people associated w/1st gen UK punk rock were adults. many of the actual musicians were in their 20s or even early 30s. a lot of them had been to art school or university. it wasn't really music by teenagers for teenagers, that didn't really start until hardcore (as in Minor Threat not ardkore) a much better comparison to OF etc, incidentally. there's also race (exceedingly white) and class (mixed but w/many middle class types like for example Strummer). not to mention that plenty of early punk rock was nihilistic + inarticulate; the Dead Boys or yunno, the Sex Pistols. even though I understand why people say it the rap=black punk rock is an exceedingly lazy, cliched trope for soooo many reasons. a much better/more topical comparison would probably have been reggae + black youth of the early-mid 80s, i.e. Babylon, Brixton/Handsworth/etc riots, + so on.

in re: music recorded right after the event CSNY famously released "Ohio" like 2 weeks after the Kent State shootings..

oh + Mr Hancox's piece was, unsurprisingly, much better + better considered. reckon a lot of its larger points about grime also ring true for most American rap.

as far as the reality/cautionary tales vs. glamorizing in rap I don't see why both can't be true at the same time. it's a standard defense of rap but that's what murder ballads etc have been doing for centuries, like when Johnny Cash shoots a man in Reno or whatever.

i dont care about punk. it gets boring with ppl banging on about punk year after year. but you could compare it to hip hop from the late 80s/early 90s if you want to talk about political rap. i agree that yeah a lot of youth anger is never that well articulated but there at least it knew its targets and wasnt afraid to say them. im not saying it has to sound like newsnight or immortal technique - ppl used to moan that a lot of rap was unfocused too, but then thats the same with a lot of music, its music after all, not a political manifesto. if you want that, read new statesman or something. but yeah if you compare grime to hip hop, it still produced a lot of great angry songs with articulated targets. grime isnt like that. the anger is mostly inward. there are exceptions though - there was a song on logans show last week at the end thats worth checking out. a sort of 'streets made me' kind of track. its good.

as far as the reality/cautionary tales vs. glamorizing in rap I don't see why both can't be true at the same time. it's a standard defense of rap but that's what murder ballads etc have been doing for centuries, like when Johnny Cash shoots a man in Reno or whatever.

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thats my point. but liberals often go way too far in the opposite direction, as if rick ross is merely reflecting reality and not not also conjuring a pretty seductive fantasy of it at the same time.