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gumdrops
27-08-2011, 11:34 AM
i mean its not 100% RIP by any means but it does seem really slow compared to when i first came here. is it just cos there arent many new users?

Ulala
27-08-2011, 11:50 AM
"Looks dead - but it isn't, it just wishes it was."

Isn't it just the summer slowdown which affects all things - people are out in the sun or on holiday or whatever? Pretty sure that, when people are stuck inside in the cold come November, they'll be more vociferous.

The only way to defibrillate it is to post lots and/or start new threads. The more provocatively titled the better, like this one.

(Incidentally, I have a hangover, hence the above is probably gibberish. I do have some own brand 'Fabulous Iron Brew', however, so worry not.)

hucks
27-08-2011, 02:27 PM
I actually think it's better now than it was about a year ago. The board had lost a few interesting posters -Noel Limits, Nomad. The Salute Tottenham and Adam Curtis threads are good.

The music ones maybe not so much. Too much YouTube. There's also some sort of balance between creating content and consuming it. The standard post industrial decline. I'm more of a consumer than a producer myself, but too many people like me can make a board boring.

craner
27-08-2011, 02:43 PM
I think it drags, I'm sad to say. I don't know why. Everybody is too reasonable, a lot of the big personalities have drifted away (or stormed off), and the essential and important nutters have all been banned. An enormous reason, maybe THE reason, for the stagnation has been the elimination of Padraig/HMLT. The defection of the K-Punk bloc has been detrimental, too, although that happened a long time ago.

gumdrops
27-08-2011, 02:59 PM
Everybody is too reasonable

yes

maybe theyre trying to 'network', not sure


The music ones maybe not so much. Too much YouTube.

definitely

i hate seeing a post with endless youtube videos (though i have heard good stuff from these things, its just offputting to see too much of it in place of actual words).

Sectionfive
27-08-2011, 05:13 PM
Think we've been here before. (http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?7433-board-is-really-dead&highlight=forum)

Board is still good/getting better imo.

Corpsey
27-08-2011, 09:37 PM
I love it here, I post on this forum more than any other nowadays...

But I think us newcomers probably ruined it a bit by posting up too many youtube links etc. The standard of discussion on here was much higher in the past (from searching through old threads) - or much more interesting/provocative, at least. I think perhaps the new generation of dissensians should lay down their swords and let the french theory spouting maniacs of old return. We could make a spin-off forum called ''Only Built 4 Youtube Linx''.

zhao
28-08-2011, 07:50 PM
i drifted off for a minute (or a year) but been kinda stepping back from time to time. still one of the only places on this internet thing where i can find people into some of the same shit i am. (even though most here fall into the same trappings as mainstream bullshit CONsensus reality in many respects)

i said it at the time and i'll say it again: banning HTML was not only supremely stupid because it's bad for the energy of the board, but also just plainly, morally WRONG, UNJUST, and ill fitting of the idea behind this very forum. -- so the fuck what if dude was militant and got emotional and called people racists and neo-cons??? i thought this place was called DISSENSUS - meaning a place to DISAGREE for fuck sake?!?!?!

(i visit the american "hollerboard" sometimes and constantly, seriously piss everyone there off, including the mods, with my anti-nationalist - which of course always gets interpreted as anti-American :rolleyes: - and whatever posts. and calling them retard gun loving hillbillies or whatever - i can honestly say a LOT of people on there really, really hate me - i call that DJ Ayers, part founder of that board, a "drooling idiot" to his face and i have never been banned. so on this front at least: Hollerboard 1, Dissensus 0)

i think the people who banned him owe him an APOLOGY and should ask him to come back.

Martin D
28-08-2011, 08:09 PM
Too many rolling threads.

zhao
28-08-2011, 08:16 PM
Too many rolling threads.

not enough trolling threads.

Ory
28-08-2011, 09:25 PM
no interesting music = no interesting discussion

nomos
28-08-2011, 09:39 PM
Fucksake, zhao. Calm down. People need to quit harping about HMLT. It had nothing to do with his politics. He repeatedly insulted, (physically) threatened, and harassed people, both on the board and through the messaging system. He's one major reason why a number of longtime posters stopped bothering. And as the moderator who spent the most time dealing with his shit (most of which you never saw) I don't have any apologies whatsoever. I'll accept one from you though.

Ness Rowlah
28-08-2011, 10:34 PM
no interesting music = no interesting discussion

fair point? The big threads are all on grime, dubstep, juke and UK House:
maybe we are just waiting for that next big thing to surface.

Also - there seems to be more bitesized stuff here now, influence from Twitter
and Tumblr? In fact some of the contributors might have moved on to places like
these.

It's a bit like blogging, not as popular as before. Every dog has its day,
but dissensus is still worth a visit. A thread like the Adam Curtis one is lively
and interesting enough to make dissenssus worthwhile.

craner
29-08-2011, 12:17 AM
No way! He physically threatened people? Who? How? Spill the beans, moderator.

One of the fun things about Padraig would be the periods sometime after he'd been banned again, when he would sign up with a brand-new nom de plume while strenuously trying to disguise his identity. It would always fail because he found concealment and subtlety impossible to sustain. Slowly the posts would get suspiciously Padraig-ised (with the give-away kenning insults, the gaudy splattering of graphics) and soon enough one of us would unmask him -- usually me, I could always sense his return, like a dog sniffing the air. It was an annual competition that quickly turned into a bloodsport. Sadly, the periods between reappearance and carnage got too short and, I think, he was barred on mental health grounds, never to return.

baboon2004
29-08-2011, 01:13 AM
i think there's been a massive lull due to summer (i wouldn't be on here as often if I didn't need to (put off) do(ing) my bastard dissertation); I remember similar sentiments being expressed before in periods of lull, as someone else said here.

i've moved off the music threads, which I thought was largely cos I'd finally stopped getting as interested in new music as I was (which I said to myself would never happen), but I think there's been enough dischord on the other threads to merit the name still. As to the music....I just don't care much about James Blake or post-dubstep much either way, I guess...and funky seems to me to have gone off the boil , but then maybe again I just got old. Can grime come back properly please?

zhao
29-08-2011, 01:42 AM
Fucksake, zhao. Calm down. People need to quit harping about HMLT. It had nothing to do with his politics. He repeatedly insulted, (physically) threatened, and harassed people, both on the board and through the messaging system. He's one major reason why a number of longtime posters stopped bothering. And as the moderator who spent the most time dealing with his shit (most of which you never saw) I don't have any apologies whatsoever. I'll accept one from you though.

in addition to telling who and how he physically threatened, please to list the "number of longtime posters" who left because of him.

my assessment may be on or off mark, and i've always liked you nomos, but apologize to you for what? disagreeing?

nomos
29-08-2011, 02:08 AM
yeah i was being facetious about that. but come on zhao, four years later and you're suddenly getting in an all-caps froth over the persecution of Pad/HMLT? demanding names and restitution - shall we have a public inquiry? it's not hard to see why he was banned or who he went after, just look at the threads. and there was more going on in the background, which i'm not going to get into.

zhao
29-08-2011, 02:28 AM
well i never liked the banning, and said it in a softer way at the time, but now with the perspective which comes with time passing, i feel even stronger about it.

and by the way i also know people who stopped posting because of the ban. i remember receiving PMs like "i don't know about this place or what it's turning into..."

whatever. i suppose it's water under the bridge now. polluted or not.

but a great universal truth is that flaws make people interesting... and extreme flaws sometimes make people extremely interesting.

bruno
29-08-2011, 02:29 AM
as someone who never made a great mark on the board, and who left ages ago, i can offer my detached perspective.

the world is vast. the board, on the other hand, is too london-centric, too uk-centric. this is fine in that you don't ask the pear tree for oranges, but the result is that the outlook is limited and not very stimulating. there is a closing in of sorts that has made the uk very dull (aside from the shard, which is coming along nicely!). funky house, to give an example, is just not very stimulating or interesting outside of london, in fact it's a measure of how stale things seem from the outside.

almost as untouchable as london are the human totems/sacred cows. the founders of the board are not to be spoken ill of, naturally, nor is mr. reynolds and his all-encompassing theory of the continuum. all are treated with much respect and reverence, and some grovelling. as to users, obnoxious, narcissistic, self-aggrandizing, quasi fascistic ones will be tolerated, (obnoxious) communists such as hundredmillionlifetimes will be banned.

the youtube thing mentioned above is also an issue to those of us in the periphery as threads have one embedded video after another that is unavailable in my country or has been taken down. i'm not a poet or writer, but i prefer even the odd scribble to the wasteland of dead posts that say nothing.

ultimately however i only have myself to blame for losing interest in dissensus. i'm sure i have missed out on a lot of things and may not have contributed anything of interest had i posted more frequently anyway. i really have nothing to say other than dissensus is still in my autocomplete and that leads me here from time to time, lured by the prospect of interesting content/posts. so to end this note, i have to say i loved this place and wish the board and all of you the best in the future!

bruno

bruno
29-08-2011, 02:39 AM
also, i miss francesco, dr. lloyd and polystyle for atmospheric posting.

zhao
29-08-2011, 02:52 AM
only point of contention from above is that funky is a LOT less london centric than Garage, which is REALLY not interesting outside of london. funky has had a lot of international appeal far as recent UK scenes go, second only to brostep.

bruno
29-08-2011, 02:58 AM
is it? i was under the impression it was the thing (london) grime producers did after the genre died. in any case i'm completely disconnected from all of this, i mentioned it as something semi-new and uninteresting to my ears on first listen (as opposed to old garage).

john eden
29-08-2011, 10:13 AM
There are similar threads on other forums at the moment: urban75, uk-dance, blood and fire.

But still good discussions on most of them too.

More places to go to talk = less focus perhaps.

I can't access dissensus at work now either.

craner
29-08-2011, 10:42 AM
obnoxious, narcissistic, self-aggrandizing, quasi fascistic ones will be tolerated

Ha ha (nervous laughter), ouch.

crackerjack
29-08-2011, 10:58 AM
obnoxious, narcissistic, self-aggrandizing, quasi fascistic ones will be tolerated, (obnoxious) communists such as hundredmillionlifetimes will be banned.
bruno

Can we just bury this idea that HMLT was banned for being a bit too far left? His politics are much closer to the Dissensus mainstream than, say, Craner or Vimothy and from I'd guess there are/were one or two mods who'd regard themselves as communists (though perhaps of a more anarcho bent).

e/y
29-08-2011, 11:00 AM
nor is mr. reynolds and his all-encompassing theory of the continuum. all are treated with much respect and reverence, and some grovelling

I don't think this is really the case. I'm quite new here, but over the last few months I've been reading many of the older threads, and quite often people disagree with Reynolds (in many instances, rather strongly) on multitudes of subjects, including the 'nuum. There are even separate threads which question the validity of it, to various degrees, and you only have to take a brief look in the p*st-dubstep thread to see how upset people were with him. Obviously there is a lot of respect for Reynolds and his work - because he's a very good / important writer, but to me there absolutely isn't a sense that he's a sacred cow beyond reproach.


also, there is/was another Padraig?

craner
29-08-2011, 11:14 AM
Exactly, now Matt Ingram on the other hand...

(Only joking.)

Considering this board started life at the fag end of the first Bush Administration, based around a network of blogs that have largely shut down, it's not in bad shape. I think it is undeniable, however, that the forum is not as busy or sparky or funny or grandiose as it was even 3 years ago. A lot of arguments and feuds burnt themselves out long ago and there's a general exhaustion and confusion politically and culturally that is replicated/reflected here. Also a lot of characters have become caricatures and are thoroughly bored of their own reflection.

crackerjack
29-08-2011, 11:19 AM
also, there is/was another Padraig?

Yes. Padraig US shouldn't be confused with Padraig, who should be confused with HMLT, Waffle and quite a few others that existed before I ever got here.

grizzleb
29-08-2011, 12:01 PM
Just seems to me that dissensus is going the way of all forums really. They are less relevant nowadays as people migrate to facebook.

Martin D
29-08-2011, 12:04 PM
not enough trolling threads.

Trolls often kill a board and are a nightmare to deal with and when it goes "real" world you're only left with one choice.

I think all the rolling threads here have slowed it down, and you don't often see as many on any other board, that's my thoughts.

Mr. Tea
29-08-2011, 03:42 PM
i think the people who banned him owe him an APOLOGY and should ask him to come back.

Come off it man, this is ludicrous. To imply that HMLT got banned because of his political views, or even because of the (ahem) robust way he liked to put them across, is a gross distortion of what actually happened (ah, I see crackerjack got in there before me). He got banned because 75% of his posts were just invective-laden diatribes of highly offensive and usually unprovoked ad-hominem attacks on other members, frequently interspersed with huge swaths of Zizek quotes. Spirited and impassioned debate is great, I'm sure we all love it, but that's not what HMLT engaged in most of the time; as I recall, his favoured rhetorical tactic was just to call everyone a "fascist". Laughably, he used to apply this term even to people with impeccable anti-capitalist/anti-imperialist credentials - remember when he turned on droid, of all people? - but who had a somewhat more nuanced and mature posting style than he did (which is not saying a lot). In fact there are, or at least were, a good number of other members who came from a pretty similar angle politically but were never banned or even suspended, because they were actually capable of engaging with people they didn't agree with without resorting to hysterical, childish name-calling. The dude was a straight-up troll: a very well-read and politically informed troll, but a troll nonetheless. If you just want to insult and offend people, fine, fuck off and do it on 4chan.

I hadn't heard about the nasty PMs and physical threats but I can't say I'm in the least surprised.

Edit: it's especially ironic that you're defending him by pointing out the name of this forum, when the simple fact is that HMLT couldn't cope with people who disagreed with him about ANYTHING - which, sooner of later, was everyone. Either you agreed with every word he wrote or you were some combination of "neocon", "imperialist", "racist", "Zionist" and, inevitably, "fascist"*. It wasn't exciting, it was just really fucking tedious.

*Ooh, don't forget "gliberal", "pomo" and "disavowed"!

Mr. Tea
29-08-2011, 04:05 PM
Anyway, in answer to gumdrops' original question, I think the forum is certainly a bit quieter than it was a few years ago but "dead" is an overstatement. Look at the Adam Curtis thread: lanugo is claiming Curtis is a shill for the NWO because he seeks to explain global socioeconomic phenomena in terms of the human motives of politicians and business leaders rather than portraying them as depraved psychopaths who cackle madly as they drink the blood of Christian infants; grizzleb, IdleRich, rob_giri and I are disagreeing with him; padraig (u.s.) is sticking up for lanugo and we've already had words like "stupid", "childish" and "fuck off" flung aroung. It's just like old times! :)

crackerjack
29-08-2011, 04:21 PM
Anyway, in answer to gumdrops' original question, I think the forum is certainly a bit quieter than it was a few years ago but "dead" is an overstatement. Look at the Adam Curtis thread: lanugo is claiming Curtis is a shill for the NWO because he seeks to explain global socioeconomic phenomena in terms of the human motives of politicians and business leaders rather than portraying them as depraved psychopaths who cackle madly as they drink the blood of Christian infants; grizzleb, IdleRich, rob_giri and I are disagreeing with him; padraig (u.s.) is sticking up for lanugo and we've already had words like "stupid", "childish" and "fuck off" flung aroung. It's just like old times! :)

Funn y you should mention Lanugo and HMLT in successive posts. I did wonder there for a while...

Mr. Tea
29-08-2011, 04:32 PM
Haha, I can see why you might think that, but HMLT didn't have lanugo's monomaniacal obsession with grand conspiracies and while I often disagree with lanugo, in all fairness he doesn't possess anything like Mr. Lifetimes' raw obnoxiousness.

crackerjack
29-08-2011, 04:46 PM
Haha, I can see why you might think that, but HMLT didn't have lanugo's monomaniacal obsession with grand conspiracies and while I often disagree with lanugo, in all fairness he doesn't possess anything like Mr. Lifetimes' raw obnoxiousness.

Agreed on both counts. But yunno, people change...

gumdrops
29-08-2011, 05:40 PM
the music board is def kinda dead (or it could just be i have nothing new to say myself, i have to think carefully before posting there now in case its already been said)

the others a bit less so

but without the music board i think the other boards suffer a bit

Mr. Tea
29-08-2011, 05:51 PM
Agreed on both counts. But yunno, people change...

That's true, of course, but I do really relish the image of HMLT as a doddery but permanently furious octegenarian, hobbling up the road to his local corner shop in a threadbare jacket decorated with pin badges bearing the hammer-and-sickle and the Palestinian flag, RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE still just about legible on the discoloured T-shirt underneath, then yelling "FASCISTS!" and feebly attempting to set about the bemused Sikh behind the counter with his stick because the price of a pint of milk's gone up a few cents...

Mr. Tea
29-08-2011, 05:54 PM
Basically Wolfie from Citizen Smith crossed with Victor Meldrew, with shades of Steptoe Snr.

e/y
29-08-2011, 06:01 PM
that made me laugh uncontrollably, and I don't even really know who HMLT was.

IdleRich
29-08-2011, 06:08 PM
Definitely not dead but quiet at times. I agree with what people have said - I think that the rolling threads tend to encourage short posts just listing a book/film or whatever and a few bits about why you like it. They don't really lead to debate in the way that an actual thread entirely devoted to one subject might. I also think that there are a few too many posts in various threads that consist only of a link - some kind of explanation should always be attached I reckon - although I'm sure I've done it myself.
HMLT had to go I reckon, when he was around there was nothing but increasingly vicious arguments which meant that no kind of actual debate could really take place. Also, when he was banned but sneaked back in in a new name he was always tolerated until he flipped out again. Whether or not it's best for dissensus I'm sure it's best for him, I don't think it can be good for someone's mental or even physical health to be spending that much time getting that annoyed about everything. On the other hand I could never figure out why that Australian guy kept getting banned.
True about it being London-centric I fear. I'm not quite sure why that should be - I joined because I was googling a record which led to Woebot's blog which led here and that kind of thing can presumably happen to anyone whether they're based in London or Peru. I guess that the more people from London there are the more stuff gets written about London and so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy or vicious circle or something. Definitely a shame because I liked it when there was a more international flavour, it just made things more interesting.
Always found your posts interesting Bruno.

Mr. Tea
29-08-2011, 06:21 PM
that made me laugh uncontrollably, and I don't even really know who HMLT was.

As far as I can tell he's basically what I described, only minus the walking stick and about 50 years.

Sectionfive
29-08-2011, 06:26 PM
Perhaps if someone cobbles together a rolling threads to posters with beards index we might find where we're going wrong.

bruno
29-08-2011, 08:31 PM
True about it being London-centric I fear. I'm not quite sure why that should be - I joined because I was googling a record which led to Woebot's blog which led here and that kind of thing can presumably happen to anyone whether they're based in London or Peru. I guess that the more people from London there are the more stuff gets written about London and so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy or vicious circle or something. Definitely a shame because I liked it when there was a more international flavour, it just made things more interesting.
Always found your posts interesting Bruno.
thank you, i like yours as well and saw the passenger based on your review, so thank you for that.

to be fair the closing off thing is not exclusive to london, i have also retreated to some extent and become more interested in local life (girlfriend, family, cycling), i think this is normal in times of change as people tend to look inward/find safe havens. it makes sense too that a large city or country becomes a world unto itself, the expectation is that things come to it rather than the other way around and i would imagine the tendency to open/close will ebb and flow with economic circumstance or whatever it is that makes people tick.

and crackerjack, you are right, it had more to do with character than politics, i did get the impression that politics had gone in a neo-con direction here and he was trying to counter that (by creating more sympathy for his enemies, paradoxically!).

re: sacred cows, like rich i arrived here through woebot and always liked him more than k-punk, but that is a question of affinity and means very little. my ideal is that everyone be on equal footing from the outset but that is really not possible, every word gives away who you are and is the basis of judgement, and some people rightly earn their fame through excellent character or some other quality, i see that now.

craner
29-08-2011, 10:50 PM
i did get the impression that politics had gone in a neo-con direction here

Fucking hell, as if.

Leo
29-08-2011, 11:04 PM
i think dissensus has gotten more interesting in the one day since this thread was started! maybe it prompted people to prove it wrong, starting up new threads and bumping old forgotten good ones. and bruno returns!

sufi
29-08-2011, 11:25 PM
luka, blackdown & mms called it here, a couple of weeks back: http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?11849-if-New-York-can-die-so-can-London&p=263118#post263118

but this is spot on

i think dissensus has gotten more interesting in the one day since this thread was started! maybe it prompted people to prove it wrong, starting up new threads and bumping old forgotten good ones. and bruno returns!
great to see ya bruno :D missing polystyle too and a few others of the old crew, many of whom have gone on to bigger & greater things, but it's always been all about the group innit? there are plenty of good posters around still to take the discussion staggering from strength to strength into new and uncharted topics,
get in there!

sufi
29-08-2011, 11:39 PM
o yeh this one too :D
http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?3893-Niceness-is-evil-or-why-Dissensus-is-shit&highlight=pot-smoking vs. http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?3841-Dissensus-welcomes-newcomers

bruno
29-08-2011, 11:59 PM
bruno returns!

great to see ya bruno :D
hey guys :-)


Fucking hell, as if.
i did say impression. two calm neo-cons vs one tourettes communist, it was hopeless.

Mr. Tea
30-08-2011, 12:10 AM
i did say impression. two calm neo-cons vs one tourettes communist, it was hopeless.

I'd still say the political centre-of-gravity here is, and always has been, well to the left of the general political centre. And while Vimothy and Craner may well be conservative in some senses (economically more than socially, I think) I'm not sure it's really fair to lump them in with "neocons" per se. They're both much too smart to have any time for political neanderthals like Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter, at any rate.

bruno
30-08-2011, 01:25 AM
I'd still say the political centre-of-gravity here is, and always has been, well to the left of the political centre. And while Vimothy and Craner may well be conservative in some senses (economically more than socially, I think) I'm not sure it's really fair to lump them in with "neocons" per se. They're both much too smart to have any time for political neanderthals like Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter, at any rate.
well, it's a slippery definition. i'm sure michael ledeen considers himself a socialist, and i consider him a crypto-fascist, but the convention is that he is a neo-conservative. and hmlt may be an excellent cook and royal-watcher privately, and oliver a consummate giallo-phile and many other things, people are complex but labels exist for convenience. if i cited julius evola left and right i would probably be labelled a fascist, i would object but that is the problem with impressions. incidentally, left of political centre is what i've seen the last few months, students marching for educational reform alongside unions, led by a militant, self-declared communist. she may not be a true communist, whatever that is, and may end up playing into other political hands (what matters is not only political action and the idea behind it but also the outcome), but the label is broadly right.

bruno
30-08-2011, 01:37 AM
having said all this, i think oliver craner is cool.

nomos
30-08-2011, 04:32 AM
Yeah craner and bruno are :cool: But where's mms? For the record, I once advocated turning all administrative duties over to Ian Town (http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?5004-Megaphones) and Yoghurt Sothoth (http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?1683-Glastonbury-Faecestival) but it didn't fly.

THis thread's going to get a bit Retromania if we're not careful. Go forth and spawn a new Dissensian dawn...

nomos
30-08-2011, 04:59 AM
Should we lock the rolling music threads again?

I also like the idea of ritual sacrifice.

bruno
30-08-2011, 06:44 AM
let's agree then that music is shit and writing about music is shit, there is nothing to write about. coincidentally, no one makes a living writing about or making music, there are no shops left but zilllions of lossy mp3s and poorly typeset books in our computers/phones/ipods that will end up in ghana as refuse. there is only money in blatant mechandising, the luxury market, drugs and war. facebook eclipsed all other forms of electronic communication. real dissent is crushed and forgotten in the real world. we were and remain a collection of obnoxious, self-obsessed failed artist hipster types with no life rambling on about nothing of consequence! i'm off to bed.

STN
30-08-2011, 08:19 AM
I was never one of the main people but my posting slowed down when I got a job I enjoyed.

I miss swears tho.

slowtrain
30-08-2011, 08:32 AM
I check hear every day (pretty much) and enjoy lots of stuff on here.

I would post more but I'm not English and generally a bit too uninformed and have very poor control of my grammar (see!) to contribute much of worth.

I have to agree that I generally don't care about discussing music (sorry!) and I don't really understand it very much (especially since I've never been involved in most of the electronic music scenes talked about here).

Also i don't really like music so much now anyway.

But generally I like this place and I don't have facebook, this is much better for finding out about stuff.

crackerjack
30-08-2011, 09:46 AM
They're both much too smart to have any time for political neanderthals like Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter, at any rate.

Beck's not a neocon, and tbh, there both just hucksters anyway. Craner is most definitely a neocon - his blog's called Kirkpatrick Mission FFS - but that's cool, he articulates it well.

crackerjack
30-08-2011, 09:47 AM
and Bruno needs to tell us more about what's happening in Chile - I only just realised it was kicking off down there

IdleRich
30-08-2011, 09:54 AM
"let's agree then that music is shit and writing about music is shit, there is nothing to write about. coincidentally, no one makes a living writing about or making music, there are no shops left but zilllions of lossy mp3s and poorly typeset books in our computers/phones/ipods that will end up in ghana as refuse."
But several brave souls have opened record shops in the UK recently (although apparently the Swindon one closed down three weeks later) - people are finding their niches and at least trying to turn the tide. A guy I know had an opening party for his on the weekend - I couldn't attend cos I was at a wedding but reports have been good

http://www.secondscene.co.uk/

Glad you enjoyed The Passenger anyway.

Mr. Tea
30-08-2011, 10:34 AM
Beck's not a neocon, and tbh, there both just hucksters anyway. Craner is most definitely a neocon - his blog's called Kirkpatrick Mission FFS - but that's cool, he articulates it well.

Fair enough, by the sound of it then I'm actually not clued up enough about modern politics to know what puts the "neo" in "neo-conservative" - I just have this vague sense that it means GWB and Palin as opposed to, say, Eisenhower or Nixon. Also I thought you had to be both American and a raving Christian loony to be a neocon, and clearly Craner is neither of those things. But anyway, he writes beautifully about films and is clearly pretty well clued up on politics in the Middle East, on which I've really enjoyed reading his essays. He also has great taste in female film stars of yesteryear. :)

Luka's insistence that Craner is some sort of demented, frothing Islamophobe is pretty tiresome, I think, but then those guys seem to have known each other IRL since forever so maybe it's more a harmless in-joke than anything else. In fact I love the way those two talk to and about each other, for all the world they sound like an old jilted couple who nonetheless still have some spark of affection for each other deep down...

Sectionfive
30-08-2011, 01:10 PM
Cj, probably for another thread but there have been massive student protests this year. Spilling over into wider society now

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/22/students-march-chile-education-protests
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/inpictures/2011/08/2011810142652304854.html

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l1KYWcYK38k&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l1KYWcYK38k&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

Would be very interested to hear from Bruno on this also.

crackerjack
30-08-2011, 01:24 PM
Also I thought you had to be both American and a raving Christian loony to be a neocon

No, definitely not. Historically, most of neocon's prime movers have been Jewish (Perle, Wolfowitz) and they've simply made common cause with the Christian right in the ME.

edit: really don't hae time to go into it now and it's not that appropriate here but I guess the defining aspects are belief in Manichean international politics and aggressive promotion of democracy abroad - at least, that's the theory ;)

Kissingerian is an insult to neocons - the master of real politik, stability, doing deals with the devil etc

craner
30-08-2011, 04:03 PM
They despised Kissinger (on the whole) because his version of realpolitik was amoral -- a critique that scanned with the Left, though they would suggest it was immoral.

craner
30-08-2011, 04:12 PM
I can describe all the various shades of the neoconservative persuasion, but I don't think it would interest very many people here. But it is true what crackerjack says, neoconservatism (for what it is) and the Tea Party (for what they are) do not cross over or stem from the same social or ideological roots -- and to the extent that they do is the extent that neoconservatism doesn't really exist as a distinct strain from American conservatism per se. In origin, it was always an intellectual and sociological disagreement: City College of New York Jews vs. Ivy League WASPs.

Also, I am intrigued to know why bruno thinks Michael Ledeen is a crypto-fascist, I hope he will explain.

craner
30-08-2011, 04:14 PM
You know I can get pretty boring about this.

BareBones
30-08-2011, 05:01 PM
I never really enter into any of the proper intellectual discussions on here - mainly because i'm a thick cunt compared to pretty much everyone else, with little or no understanding of international politics or economics or critical theory or arthouse cinema or whatever - but I do love this board and there's always find something thought-provoking and/or witty and/or fun to read, so it'd be a real shame if it did die. I have no idea how i've got to 1,300 posts or however many it is, because all I say is bollocks really. Which is probably why the forum is dying - too many reasonable cunts like me with nothing to say. This 'Thought' forum was always my favourite one and it's the one that's got way too quiet if you ask me.

bruno
31-08-2011, 12:06 AM
Also, I am intrigued to know why bruno thinks Michael Ledeen is a crypto-fascist, I hope he will explain.

well, he has a kind of revolutionary zeal, a belief in aggressive force/destruction/war to achieve political change/renewal (for democracy/freedom in america's image and for america's benefit), a yearning for uncontested truth and castigation of evil that feels very fascist to me, very manichean. he may not have a portrait of mussolini over his bed, and i'm sure he's a kind soul in person and you know his political philosophy better, but what little i've read of him reeks of love of authority and love of violence (between good and evil, etc.).


Cj, probably for another thread but there have been massive student protests this year. Spilling over into wider society now

the guardian article sums up the student view very well. the opposite view (piñera government) sees opposition support of the student movement as a cynical attempt to bring down the first centre-right government in fifty years, and rightly points out that under concertación (centre-left) governments the for-profit university system went uncontested. there are also elements of the concertación who see support for this movement as undermining the values of compromise/gradual change/financial stability that led to a reduction of poverty and development of chile after pinochet, and there is some truth in that.

thread derailed, sorry.

craner
31-08-2011, 09:15 AM
Ah, I see, fair enough. I thought you were going to bring up Lucio Gelli, D'Annunzio or Renzo de Felice, in which case I'd have had to WHIP you.

craner
04-07-2013, 09:24 AM
Hey, have I missed something, what has happened to Droid?

Mr. Tea
04-07-2013, 10:46 AM
Hey, have I missed something, what has happened to Droid?

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Broken-C3PO-Removeable-Limbs-For-Spares-/00/s/MTAwMFg3NTA=/z/sWgAAMXQQQhResfA/$(KGrHqFHJF!FFwdgTZjQBResf!iEeQ~~60_35.JPG

:(

baboon2004
04-07-2013, 11:35 AM
:(

Reports of Dissensus's death seem like reports of the death of house music- always premature

Patrick Swayze
04-07-2013, 12:39 PM
How can Dissensus be dead when Danny Dyer will live forever?

- RZA

craner
04-07-2013, 03:36 PM
Alright then, if Dissensus isn't dead, then why or how has Droid ceased to exist?

baboon2004
04-07-2013, 03:49 PM
No idea.

craner
04-07-2013, 04:09 PM
Does nobody else think this is a disaster?

paolo
04-07-2013, 10:06 PM
He's the droid you're looking for

(sorry)

woops
05-07-2013, 08:07 PM
what you call life, i call a shambling imitation.
dissensus is as inert and pliable as it has ever been