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DigitalDjigit
06-04-2005, 08:08 PM
Music videos: good, bad?

I generally dislike them because they impose some kind of narrative structure to a music piece where it is often inappropriate. Sometimes, when they are more abstract, they could create something greater than music by itself, a separate art piece. What really annoys me is that music could be listened to while doing lots of things but music videos make you sit there and watch the video. The whole critique of television could be applied here with the additional indictment that the video part is completely unnecessary.

Why do people bother? It's not like MTV shows them anymore.

Martin Dust
06-04-2005, 08:17 PM
Creative expression, visual langauge...and because...

There one on this page that we've just finished, see what you think...
http://www.dustscience.com/Releases/CarlTaylor-Simplex.php

tryptych
06-04-2005, 09:48 PM
I think I really like videos that have a narrative structure that is little or nothing to do with the music.. that Chemical Brothers vid a few years ago with the girl in the gymnastics competition springs to mind. Oh.. and the one Pleix made for Plaid http://www.pleix.net/films.html

So what do you think of the new VJ videomixing trend.. that gives a use for music videos, but also I guess might lead to people standing around in clubs watching rather than dancing, talking etc..

mms
06-04-2005, 09:53 PM
I think I really like videos that have a narrative structure that is little or nothing to do with the music.. that Chemical Brothers vid a few years ago with the girl in the gymnastics competition springs to mind. Oh.. and the one Pleix made for Plaid http://www.pleix.net/films.html

So what do you think of the new VJ videomixing trend.. that gives a use for music videos, but also I guess might lead to people standing around in clubs watching rather than dancing, talking etc..

vjing is almost always a very bad idea, club dancefloors should be smoke, red and white light and sweat

DigitalDjigit
06-04-2005, 10:01 PM
Why should videos be constrained by narrative structure? Is this because video is an outgrowth of movies which came from plays? Why should this narrative piece then accompany a music piece that lacks any sort of narrative? It is distracting at best. The flipside of this: movies using music to signify emotions, underscore events etc. I dislike that as well. Movies would lose a lot of their hyper-reality, they would feel flatter but it's not such a bad thing.

I don't have a problem with VJ's using abstract images and creating interesting visual displays to express their feelings of the music. I don't think VJ's would need music videos to do this. A composer wouldn't need a copy of someone's album, a sample bank would do just fine.

DigitalDjigit
06-04-2005, 10:03 PM
I am with mms though about clubs, the ideal decor is no decor with just a strobe and a red light or something equally dim for illumination. Safety hazard but if it needs to be insured it's already not ideal.

DavidD
06-04-2005, 11:13 PM
ruff sqwad's anna video is so great!

wonk_vitesse
06-04-2005, 11:32 PM
I'm no fan but sometimes watching them in the Cinema can be great. The 'Future Shorts' series which tours London monthly show a vid in amongst some short films. Daft Punk's 'Around the World' & a recent animated Radiohead one both looked wonderful on a big screen.

As for my fave probably 'Close to Me' by the Cure, concept/song/makeup what a treat!

seahorsegenius
07-04-2005, 12:13 AM
I'm sorry but I just don't get that point of view. Music is an art form, as is film, moving pictures. It's all the same. Looking at something, the lighting, the colors, the pace, these are all things that go into making music and film (and paintings and photography, etc.) It's the overall mood of the subject.

carlos
07-04-2005, 01:30 AM
Why do people bother? It's not like MTV shows them anymore.

MTV2 (aka M2) shows tons of videos- judging from the high production values i see on there- people do still care. the hiphop top 20 countdown on sunday mornings is a good way to start the day. if only to catch a glimpse of ciara...

DavidD
07-04-2005, 01:36 AM
BET has the best "after-school" video lineup with rap city followed by 106 and park, although the new rap city dude is pretty charisma-free.

tryptych
07-04-2005, 09:24 AM
I'm talking about those Pioneer decks that allow you to mix DVDs like CDs, with pitch control etc for the video.



I don't have a problem with VJ's using abstract images and creating interesting visual displays to express their feelings of the music. I don't think VJ's would need music videos to do this. A composer wouldn't need a copy of someone's album, a sample bank would do just fine.

Yeah, but we're not talking about composers, this is VJs as opposed to DJs. By the same analogy, a DJ wouldn't need a copy of someone's album/record, just a bank of samples. DJing and composing are two different things, although the lines are often blurred, can't we have the same distinction for VJs and video directors?

DigitalDjigit
07-04-2005, 02:33 PM
I'm talking about those Pioneer decks that allow you to mix DVDs like CDs, with pitch control etc for the video.



Yeah, but we're not talking about composers, this is VJs as opposed to DJs. By the same analogy, a DJ wouldn't need a copy of someone's album/record, just a bank of samples. DJing and composing are two different things, although the lines are often blurred, can't we have the same distinction for VJs and video directors?

It would seem pretty boring to me, cut up a movie into pieces? It's like taking a couple books and taking a page from each and pasting them together. Music is just way too different from film. It's like I keep saying, film has a narrative structure and music doesn't. Videos usually show stuff that is not too different from your everyday experience, even something like "Around the World" , yeah it's weird but it's just people walking around on stage. Music is like from another dimension.

DigitalDjigit
07-04-2005, 02:43 PM
There are music videos I enjoy. "Interstella 5555" that was just one long video and I liked that very much. But it's an exception. How many times can you watch a music video? Maybe a few times and then it gets boring but a piece of music you can listen to for a long time.

DigitalDjigit
07-04-2005, 03:13 PM
Abstract music calls for abstract images. Why keep using cameras and scripts and all that film baggage. It should be dynamically generated with computers or those oil machines the hippies used or fractal generators, whatever. The winamp Geist plugin is a much better accompaniment than anything Chris Cunningham can cook up.

puretokyo
07-04-2005, 04:31 PM
There are a million examples of where a video with strong musician involvement leads to an amazing combination, that adds to the original music. Some standouts off the top of my head (excuse the extraordinarily uncool bands, this is what used to show on our videos programme) include

Massive Attack - Angel
Faith No More - Evidence
Bjork - All is Full of Love
Squarepusher - Come on My Selector
Massive Attack - Inertia Creeps

and even

Rammstein - Du Hast
NIN - The Perfect Drug
Fatboy Slim - Praise You
Audio Bullies - whatever their one hit was

Some have narratives, others just imagery, the Faith one is just showing the band playing in a bar. All add to the music. Just cause a lot of shit videos go around doesn't mean they can't be done well.

Rammstein are an example of a band where the visual side almost precedes the music - neither stands without the other. In fact, probably my favourite video ever is their video for 'Stripped', it's a perfect video constructed from footage from Leni Riefenstahl's 'Olympia', the Nazi Olympics promo film.