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View Full Version : q. WHO INVENTED ELVES.



luka
02-12-2011, 11:11 AM
I WANT TO KNOW FOR A PROJECT I AM DOING. I AM BREEDING ELVES WITH HUMAN SLAVES.

luka
02-12-2011, 11:12 AM
i mean i think elves was general name for floaty spirit things. so who invented elves as tall skinny pale archers with high intelligence and possibly magical abilities?

craner
02-12-2011, 11:16 AM
Are you drunk?

Mr. Tea
02-12-2011, 11:45 AM
I love how you can tell a luka thread just from the title. :)

luka
02-12-2011, 11:49 AM
was it tolkein or does the origin of elves lie further back, back in the dawn of time?

luka
02-12-2011, 11:50 AM
did tolkein invent fantasy? where do these tropes come from? elves in particular. who invented elves?

luka
02-12-2011, 12:00 PM
THE ELF SALVE
Make a salve against the race of elves and against spirits walking about at night and against women with whom the devil has sexual intercourse.
Take the female hop plant, wormwood, bishop's wort, lupine, vervain, henbane, harewort, viper's bugloss, sprouts of heathberry, leek, garlic, seeds of cleavers, cockle and fennel. Put the herbs in a vessel, set them under the alter, sing masses over them, boil them in butter, and in sheep's fat, add a good quantity of holy salt, strain them through a cloth, throw the herbs into running water. If a man has any evil temptations, or is troubled by elves or nocturnal spirits, smear his face with this salve, and put something on his eyes and where his body may be painful. And smoke him with incense and frequently make the sign of the cross on him. His condition will soon be better.

from 'The Leechbook'

zhao
02-12-2011, 12:01 PM
why is this in politics?

luka
02-12-2011, 12:03 PM
In case a man is insane. Take the skin of a porpoise, make a whip of it, and beat the man with it. He will soon be better.

viktorvaughn
02-12-2011, 12:08 PM
In films/computer games they are always tall, slim and wicked with a bow and arrow but less good with massive hammers and suits of armour (dwarf territory).

droid
02-12-2011, 12:20 PM
Elves were small little wood people in ancient nordic and germanic mythology afaik. I think they got mixed up with faeries sometime in the 1800's... Tolkien wasn't far off I reckon.

They've been around for millennia. Wights too.

luka
02-12-2011, 12:20 PM
yeah, i know, why?
oliver craner of wales, i hav started smoking and drinking but at a moderate rate and i am in no way intoxicated. it is 11.19pm and my condition does no diservice to my dignity.

luka
02-12-2011, 12:21 PM
sorry, question directd at victor not droid.

Mr. Tea
02-12-2011, 12:21 PM
Terry Pratchett's Lords and Ladies ties together pretty well the proto-elves in Irish myth (Sidh, Tuatha de Danann), mediaeval/Renaissance fairies or 'faeries' a la Shakespeare and elves in the modern (post-)Tolkienian sense. They're very powerful and kinda nasty, or at least amoral.

luka
02-12-2011, 12:23 PM
but WHO INVENTED ELVES?

luka
02-12-2011, 12:25 PM
I say tolkein and if the answer is tolkein then tolkein invented fantasy. i have never read tolkein although my dad read me the hobbit when i was very young and i liked it. all the stock charactrs of fantasy come from him?

yyaldrin
02-12-2011, 12:27 PM
did tolkein invent fantasy? where do these tropes come from? elves in particular. who invented elves?

it's a good question. i have often wondered why fantasy is so boring, in fact it's one of the most predictable genre's there is. elves, orcs and dwarfs, that's about it.

Mr. Tea
02-12-2011, 12:28 PM
I say tolkein and if the answer is tolkein then tolkein invented fantasy. i have never read tolkein although my dad read me the hobbit when i was very young and i liked it. all the stock charactrs of fantasy come from him?

I should think it's uncontroversial to say he had more influence on it than any other author, yes. If it hadn't been for him the genre would probably not exist as we know it.

Mr. Tea
02-12-2011, 12:30 PM
it's a good question. i have often wondered why fantasy is so boring, in fact it's one of the most predictable genre's there is. elves, orcs and dwarfs, that's about it.

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?11278-Radical-Fantasy

Slothrop
02-12-2011, 12:53 PM
Eru Ilúvatar?

luka
02-12-2011, 12:56 PM
im not just trying to be controversial. its just amazing to think one man could have invented everything. every type except the barbarian which was howard, and the wizard which is oldish.

Slothrop
02-12-2011, 01:10 PM
I don't think he invented them so much as he came up with the realization that became 'definitive'. Dwarves and elves and trolls and goblins and things had been floating around in different forms before but the way Tolkein defined them was the one that everyone else more or less copied. I'm sure there's a good musical analogy here but I can't think of it. Maybe Coki and wobble or something.


Just remembered - Lord Dunsany had elves in the King of Elfland's Daughter.

Leo
02-12-2011, 01:32 PM
if new york can die, so can elves.

nomos
02-12-2011, 01:44 PM
it was Colonel Tom Parker

Mr. Tea
02-12-2011, 01:55 PM
I don't think he invented them so much as he came up with the realization that became 'definitive'.

Yeah, very little he wrote about was a complete invention. Ents, maybe, but then there were dryads and various woodland spirits in different mythologies since forever, so possibly not even them.

It's a bit like the way the classic red-suited Santa Claus was created in late C19 America (not by Coca-Cola, contrary to popular myth, though they certainly popularised him) out of an amalgamation of the British Father Christmas, Dutch Sinterklaas and Scandinavian Tomte.

What Tolkien did was to redefine creatures like elves that would have been familiar in some form or another to his readers as well as resurrect (in modified form) creatures like orcs that had been forgotten for centuries. I mean orcs ('orcneas') are mentioned in Beowulf as a sort of ghoul or zombie but would have been completely unknown to anyone other than a few dusty old scholars if Tolkien hadn't recycled them in the way he did. And hobbits are an amalgamation of brownies, pixies, 'the wee folk' generally.

bassnation
02-12-2011, 05:41 PM
Elves were small little wood people in ancient nordic and germanic mythology afaik. I think they got mixed up with faeries sometime in the 1800's... Tolkien wasn't far off I reckon.

They've been around for millennia. Wights too.

ok, now you've got me off researching wights on the net. apparently wiht is an old saxon word which was surprisingly broad in meaning - a person or object - but also could refer to evil spirits.

baboon2004
02-12-2011, 05:43 PM
Iceland?

Leo
02-12-2011, 07:38 PM
who invented L-VIS 1990?

luka
03-12-2011, 08:20 AM
http://th03.deviantart.net/fs28/PRE/f/2008/049/4/9/Barbarian_Warrior_J___11_by_mjranum_stock.jpg

luka
03-12-2011, 09:58 AM
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150391787271143&set=a.429905361142.226103.731621142&type=3&theater

grizzleb
03-12-2011, 03:45 PM
Elves was just a way for record producers to package black music to a white audience.

mistersloane
15-12-2011, 10:46 PM
Here yer go luka, the elven meme

http://cyberalfheim.info/elvenmeme.html

nomos
16-12-2011, 12:35 AM
Elves was just a way for record producers to package black music to a white audience.


it was Colonel Tom Parker

beat you to it :p