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faustus
09-01-2012, 07:47 AM
Bit early to start whining about the olympics, but never mind:

Games chief tells Britain to wake up to 'extraordinary opportunity' of Olympics (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jan/08/locog-chief-olympics-opportunity)


Paul Deighton, chief executive of the London Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic Games (Locog), said he was concerned that many businesses and members of the public would not recognise its scale until shortly before it started.

"When the world starts arriving here, the light will begin to go on and people will start to say 'Wow, I had no idea. This will be the experience of a lifetime.' This is my real concern," he said.

"The thing that keeps me up at night is whether we will take full advantage of the extraordinary opportunity coming our way this summer. I know that by the time we get to the end of this most people will say that they had no idea of the scale and opportunity of this, if only. I don't want too many if onlys."

Funnily enough, comments aren't switched on for this particular piece of crack reporting

baboon2004
09-01-2012, 10:44 AM
When the world starts arriving here for..two weeks. An extraordinary opportunity to do what, exactly? I'm sure we'll sell slightly more T-shirts than normal. Is that what he means?

IdleRich
09-01-2012, 12:33 PM
I'm seriously thinking about renting out my flat if I can tidy it up in time. Is that the kind of opportunity they mean?

Mr. Tea
09-01-2012, 12:49 PM
I'm seriously thinking about renting out my flat if I can tidy it up in time.

You'd better get a shift on, August is only seven months away...

Leo
09-01-2012, 01:28 PM
i know a couple in sydney who rented out their apartment during the olympics because they wanted to avoid the whole thing, and then later got kind of swept up in all the excitement and actually got some tickets and came back to town to attend! personally, i'm more the type to want to get out of town even if i didn't rent out my place.

faustus
09-01-2012, 02:47 PM
i know a couple in sydney who rented out their apartment during the olympics because they wanted to avoid the whole thing, and then later got kind of swept up in all the excitement and actually got some tickets and came back to town to attend! personally, i'm more the type to want to get out of town even if i didn't rent out my place.

i'm definitely not coming back to england until it's all over and out of the papers and off the telly

Mr. Tea
09-01-2012, 02:52 PM
It's gonna be horrible, the whole city will be crawling with cops (and squaddies!) in full zero-tolerance mode. You won't be able to fart without picking up an on-the-spot penalty. Which would be bad news for me, I can tell you. Glad to be out of it to be honest.

One of my former housemates has successfully tried out for some sort of display performance shenanigans, she's well into it. I'm sure it's going to be fun for the people actually taking part in some way.

baboon2004
09-01-2012, 03:02 PM
http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2009/02/stadium-athens-415x275.jpg

Stratford in October 2012.

Of Athens post-2004: “The children are only interested in basketball and football. All the other Olympic sports — nobody has any interest.” This is pretty much the point, isn't it. Lots of the sports included are objectively rubbish.

Mr. Tea
09-01-2012, 03:11 PM
And as Rich pointed out during the last lot, it's pointless to include sports like football, rugby, tennis and so on that already have their own World Cup or equivalent which is much more prestigious than the Olympic competition in the same sport.

IdleRich
09-01-2012, 03:11 PM
I was amused to see that synchronised swimming was accidentally oversold meaning that tickets had to be returned. I guess that was a relief for some people who got stuck with tickets.

baboon2004
09-01-2012, 03:17 PM
@tea, and if the more minor sports were themselves popular enough, their own world championships would be watched by millions, and they wouldn't have to sell themselves by lumping themselves in with clay pigeon shooting. It's a pretty desperate manoeuvre by any standards. The track events appeal, but the introduction of the Athletics World Champs in 1983 at the very least took the shine off the Olympics. For all that the 2010 WC was rubbish for actual football, as an event it trumps the Olympics easily.

The Winter Olympics are better anyways. Luge shits all over fencing.

Mr. Tea
09-01-2012, 03:34 PM
I like curling for its sheer ridiculousness. Wonder if a commentator has ever made a 'curling one out' gag on air? The temptation must be ever-present.

baboon2004
09-01-2012, 03:55 PM
i always feel vaguely revulsed when a football commentator describes a free kick as a 'curler'.

I like ice hockey for the violence.

Bangpuss
09-01-2012, 05:58 PM
Each host country gets to introduce a couple of sports as Olympic events as a one-off. So for example, we could technically choose snooker, darts or 20Twenty cricket -- the logical choices because we're good at darts and snooker, and cricket is the national summer sport that fans go mad about (and we're not bad at that now, either.

But I'd be interested to know what the Olympic committee have chosen. I bet they've gone for stiupid shit like water aerobics or horseback bow and arrow.

baboon2004
09-01-2012, 06:01 PM
Synchronised equestrianism?

IdleRich
09-01-2012, 06:39 PM
Squash would be a good shout. A proper sport that is played in quite a few countries and which is physically demanding but which could do with a shot in the arm.

Mr. Tea
09-01-2012, 07:39 PM
Synchronised equestrianism?

Not necessarily a bad idea...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YFbXKOW1NoQ/TKlu1Pz3dyI/AAAAAAAAD2A/jnkTt-lqTzA/s1600/ben+hur+still+chariot+race.jpg

slowtrain
10-01-2012, 02:17 AM
I liked the one where they set buildings on fire, and the different countries competed to see who could put them out the fastest.

zhao
10-01-2012, 04:47 AM
i like this thread.

luka
10-01-2012, 06:27 AM
hi. im not a fan of the Olympics, far from it but i do know it done some good. my little brother built it. he got a job as a trainee foreman thanks to the Olympics.

Bangpuss
10-01-2012, 12:22 PM
So we're saying hosting the Olympics is a good thing because it was a kind of accidental stimulus for the economy? That kind of makes sense, if you believe that we couldn't have done more for the economy with the however many billions that are being spent on an event that lasts one month. As many articles have attested, most of the venues built for the Games don't pass the 'legacy test', meaning they will be useful to the wider community afterwards.

Sure, it put your brother in a job -- paid for largely by taxpayers. But spending so much to build sports venues that won't be much use after summer 2012 is a reckless way to plan an economy / infrastructure. Like lobbyists for the arms industry who claim that it's a vital part of the economy, there are more productive things people could be doing than building sports venues or weapons (which is actively destructive rather than productive). This is especially true when you consider things like toll bridges in Scotland, which have to be funded by the people who use them, and our extremely expensive railways, which could have used that money and benefited us all.

luka
10-01-2012, 12:25 PM
er no we're not. but would you like me to play devils advocate just so you can have a fight?

luka
10-01-2012, 12:26 PM
and ive read that book about toll bridges and pfi stuff so i dont need a lecture. thanks anyway.

luka
10-01-2012, 12:32 PM
let me tell you something which is gonna be important for your spiritual development little brother. you are not as clever as you think you are. take time.

Bangpuss
10-01-2012, 02:20 PM
and ive read that book about toll bridges and pfi stuff so i dont need a lecture. thanks anyway.

Lecture?


let me tell you something which is gonna be important for your spiritual development little brother. you are not as clever as you think you are. take time.

Oh, great sage, please be my teacher. Lecture me til the cows come home.

baboon2004
10-01-2012, 02:42 PM
"Lottery funding for good causes is expected to rise from £1.3bn this year to £1.7bn in 2013/14 because the government will stop using the money to fund the London Olympics, according to John Penrose, the tourism and heritage minister."

I still can't get how they got away with this theft in the first place. For synchronised swimming.

There don't seem to be any good arguments that any recent Olympic city apart from Barcelona benefitted from legacy (apparently lots of people in Sydney benefitted re skills, but then they went off elsewhere to be consultants, with little benefit for Sydney itself), and that benefit was made largely from tourism, whereas other cities had already fulfilled their potential in this area. Otherwise, everything about 'stimulus' is incredibly vague and unconvincing. Allt he building work certainly created jobs in the short term, but seems reminiscent of Ireland's many huge building projects before it crashed - there's no use for them (apparently).

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-olympics/article-24026596-curb-on-olympics-bunting-displays-to-keep-sponsors-happy.do - oh,t he Carnival spirit!

luka
10-01-2012, 09:59 PM
oh i see bangpuss you want to be a journalist, thats sweet. keep working hard and practicing and one day you can achieve your dreams. you seem to have the right blend of literal mindedness and deadwood prose. keep it up.

baboon2004
10-01-2012, 11:54 PM
Knowing both of you to an extent (obviously solely digital in your case Luka), I think you'd get on! Some arguments are best off forgotten.

luka
11-01-2012, 07:45 AM
its nothing personal and i dont hold grudges, i just like fighting.

Bangpuss
12-01-2012, 12:51 PM
Oh lord. What did I do wrong to incur his wrath? Make a comment about the Olympics. In deadwood prose, no less.

Chin up and keep reading my articles.

luka
12-01-2012, 12:59 PM
i didnt read them to be honest, but i looked at the titles. they were a bit off putting. i still think you should keep it up though.

luka
12-01-2012, 01:07 PM
Ouija Board, Ouija Board: Bright Eyes’ Conor Oberst Interviewed

ATP Curated by Godspeed You! Black Emperor review

The Curious Case of Edgar Allan Poe and Eminem

Reformed Libertines Drop A Bomb on the Boogaloo


internet journalist writes 'thinkpieces' on indie musicians.
not my sort of thing really but its very popular among a certain section of the student community. theres definitely a market for this sort of thing and you should keep it up.

Bangpuss
12-01-2012, 01:19 PM
Have a look at my other articles about politics if you like, but the prose is a little dreary for your tastes.

matt b
12-01-2012, 01:22 PM
Via Private Eye:

The Olympic park has lost 75% of estimated value. The park, which contains the Olympic stadium, an aquatic centre and 250 acres of parkland and was bought for more than 750 million pounds, was valued at 138 million pounds if sold to one developer and 157 million pounds if sold in lots. In 2009 it was valued as being worth 2 billion pounds.


£40 million= taxpayer funding to Olympic opening/closing ceremonies.
£50 million= annual cuts to services in Newham

Bangpuss
13-01-2012, 10:09 AM
I never understood the appeal of the opening ceremony. No sport is played, just an army of people in tracksuits walking round a track holding flags and the organisers basking in the glory of their achievements.

I can't decide if the Olympics or the high speed rail thing are the most wasteful domestic policies of the last decade. Both originate in the cauldron of New Labour, by the way, so it's not all the coalition's fault. But you have to question why a government whose raison d'etre is economic prudence wants to go ahead with the high speed railway. Over £30 billion is a modest estimate, since we all know how the budgets of public spending projects balloon. It gets you to Birmingham 15 minutes quicker.

Mr. Tea
13-01-2012, 10:33 AM
I can't decide if the Olympics or the high speed rail thing are the most wasteful domestic policies of the last decade.

Don't forget Trident! And I'm not talking about the Met nicking yardies...

Funny that the coalition has inherited some massively costly projects from New Labour, since the last government inherited the Millennium Dome, initiated under Major. I remember half-wondering at the time if the last Tory govt hadn't deliberately started a hugely expensive, high-profile public project that was likely to be a white elephant because they knew they were probably going to lose the next GE and just wanted to embarrass Blair.

Bangpuss
13-01-2012, 10:43 AM
Is Trident a domestic policy?

Mr. Tea
13-01-2012, 10:46 AM
Is Trident a domestic policy?

I took 'domestic' to mean excluding actual wars and other activity abroad - so you mean civil, as opposed to 'defence'-related?

Bangpuss
13-01-2012, 01:01 PM
Yes.

IdleRich
13-01-2012, 02:13 PM
The dome was one of the weirder ideas, I've never really understood what it was supposed to be and I don't think anyone else does either. I guess it had a lot of private investment though didn't it or was that a con? How much did it cost the tax payer?

Mr. Tea
13-01-2012, 02:33 PM
Well the late '90s were full of all this crap about 'Cool Britannia', weren't they? I seem to remember the Dome being billed as a kind of 21st-century version of the Festival of Britain or the Great Exhibition. No idea about where the cash came from or how much of it was ever made back. I think a lot of Lottery money went into it.

faustus
13-01-2012, 05:14 PM
The dome was one of the weirder ideas, I've never really understood what it was supposed to be and I don't think anyone else does either.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b7DgOeMnW4

Bangpuss
19-01-2012, 02:38 PM
A report in one of yesterday's papers cited a report that says Olympics 2012 will cause more gridlock than expected. Bring on the four-hour crosstown bus journey!

mistersloane
19-01-2012, 04:29 PM
A report in one of yesterday's papers cited a report that says Olympics 2012 will cause more gridlock than expected. Bring on the four-hour crosstown bus journey!

It's actually gonna cause deaths - patients in areas affected by the Golden Mile or whatever round the Isle of Dogs where they're blocking off the roads with concrete won't be able to get to their doctors. Olympic Death Squad.

viktorvaughn
27-01-2012, 01:25 PM
A report in one of yesterday's papers cited a report that says Olympics 2012 will cause more gridlock than expected. Bring on the four-hour crosstown bus journey!

i get to work at home for a fortnight, wicked!

owengriffiths
31-01-2012, 09:18 PM
I never understood the appeal of the opening ceremony. No sport is played, just an army of people in tracksuits walking round a track holding flags and the organisers basking in the glory of their achievements.

I can't decide if the Olympics or the high speed rail thing are the most wasteful domestic policies of the last decade. Both originate in the cauldron of New Labour, by the way, so it's not all the coalition's fault. But you have to question why a government whose raison d'etre is economic prudence wants to go ahead with the high speed railway. Over £30 billion is a modest estimate, since we all know how the budgets of public spending projects balloon. It gets you to Birmingham 15 minutes quicker.

The current trains to Birmingham are overcrowded, the only way this can be remedied is by building a completely new line. 95% of the business case of the high speed rail is about freeing up capacity, the 'getting to your destination 15 minutes quicker' theme is a red herring. It only adds a little extra to the cost so it's a nice thing to have

Bangpuss
03-02-2012, 09:53 AM
Longer platforms and trains would increase the capacity for way less money and wouldn't carve up the countryside. The high speed option may be a red herring, but you can bet they will charge a premium to travel on it. I'd be interested to hear if there are any plans to cap rail prices, especially on the new line. Otherwise, by the time it's built, I can see a London to Birmingham train ticket purchased on the day to cost about 400 quid.

Mr. Tea
03-02-2012, 10:43 AM
Crossing London on the tube last night, saw that the ES had a headline about how rail bosses' bonuses have effectively double their pay this year. Once again, everyone grumbles and not a single fucking thing is done about it.

baboon2004
03-02-2012, 01:22 PM
Who awards their bonuses?

Who the hell needs to earn over £100 000 (at a push)? We live in a ridiculous society. The headlines about possible evictions by landlords drawing up new contracts re the Olympics are, if true, terrible.

sufi
29-02-2012, 11:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paq5lruW02M
this is getting massively banned

you
01-03-2012, 02:22 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paq5lruW02M
this is getting massively banned

quality, good call - I expect riots through-out the olypics

luka
01-03-2012, 10:50 AM
my mum was visting me from stratford. telling me about the special lanes for celebrities. so they dont get stuck in traffic. ambulances cant use them. except if its life or death. we dont want celebrities stuck in traffic. they told my sister she can go to work but only if she cycles. but the cycle lanes have been replaced by the celebrity lanes. my mum has been told to work from home.

Sectionfive
02-05-2012, 06:49 PM
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l213/handsblix/pl.png

IdleRich
30-05-2012, 10:08 AM
Fantastic story here about British wrestling's places being flled by sparring partners from the Ukraine who turned out to be better than the UK athletes they were supposed to be helping.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/may/28/olympics-2012-british-wrestling-scrap-places

Also, pleased to see Coca-Cola condemned people putting their Olympic torches on ebay for "Commercialising the spirit of the games" or somesuch.

Mr. Tea
30-05-2012, 11:26 AM
Fantastic story here about British wrestling's places being flled by sparring partners from the Ukraine who turned out to be better than the UK athletes they were supposed to be helping.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/may/28/olympics-2012-british-wrestling-scrap-places



Training partners imported from Ukraine, Bulgaria and Russia, where there is a huge depth of talent, to spar with homegrown hopefuls at the sport's base in Salford in 2007 have ended up representing Britain and potentially taking two of the three places on offer at the Games.

How can you represent a country after living there for just five years? Seems to defeat the entire point of 'representing' a country rather than just competing as an individual.

sufi
04-06-2012, 01:19 AM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41f5MTz4rnL._SS500_.jpg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B005HP1UHK/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

95 of 96 people found the following review helpful
1.0 out of 5 stars Extremely worried, 27 May 2012
By Kyle Logan (Glasgow) - See all my reviews
= Durability:1.0 out of 5 stars = Fun:1.0 out of 5 stars = Educational:1.0 out of 5 stars
This review is from: Olympic Mascots Wenlock Policeman Figurine (Toy)
I bought this toy last week and although it arrived quickly and it seems to be well made, I have some concerns. Every fifteen minute since I've opened it out of the packaging, it will shout phrases such as 'I AM THE EYE OF PROVIDENCE', 'PAX ROMANA' and 'THE SECRET IS WITHIN THE GREAT PYRAMID OF GIZA'.

Mr. Tea
04-06-2012, 02:57 PM
I like the review of that^^ that said something like "Less fun than masturbating over a picture of Sebastian Coe, and god knows I've tried it".

Bangpuss
05-06-2012, 04:57 PM
I went to see China Mieville and Iain Sinclair talk about the Olympic legacy at the Stoke Newington literary festival at the weekend. It was very good, although there wasn't much 'debate'; just one damning analysis after another. Not sure if this is true or not -- it seems a bit far fetched to me -- but Sinclair claims there are more British troops serving the Olympics than were deployed in Afghanistan.

you
05-06-2012, 09:35 PM
probably the best thread to link this brain dump in

http://notesfromthevomitorium.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/diamond-jubilee-spectacle-of-jubilant.html

comments welcome

Mr. Tea
15-07-2012, 10:52 PM
Best read out loud in a Nelson Muntz voice:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/07/13/article-2173199-140C608D000005DC-751_638x409.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2173199/Olympics-2012-Ha-Ha-Road-closed-motorists-struggle-funny-sign-warning-lanes-shut-Games.html

ifp
16-07-2012, 03:52 PM
A friend tells me that one of the regiments working at the Olympics has just come back from Helmand where they got the name "Iron Fist" for their, er, helpful and caring demeanor.

(of course, this could just be bullshit ;))

Mr. Tea
26-07-2012, 12:36 PM
Cassetteboy's at it again:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEDFMKjhLRw&feature=player_embedded

Leo
26-07-2012, 02:03 PM
Unofficial Sarcastic Olympic Souvenirs For The Cynical

http://designtaxi.com/news/353132/Unofficial-Sarcastic-Olympic-Souvenirs-For-The-Cynical/

trilliam
26-07-2012, 09:44 PM
Best read out loud in a Nelson Muntz voice:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/07/13/article-2173199-140C608D000005DC-751_638x409.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2173199/Olympics-2012-Ha-Ha-Road-closed-motorists-struggle-funny-sign-warning-lanes-shut-Games.html

pmsl this is my ends and this is the spot i been working
gonna read the article now

mistersloane
27-07-2012, 12:34 AM
I've never come across so many people talking about, or willing, a bomb to go off or a catastrophe to happen before in my life.

Leo
27-07-2012, 04:57 PM
yeah, so...mitt romney, a pretty sharp guy, huh?

Local Authority
27-07-2012, 09:30 PM
Lets home Mitt becomes president. Could provide some laughs.

Local Authority
27-07-2012, 09:44 PM
How's everyone finding the opening ceremony?

Local Authority
27-07-2012, 10:24 PM
Apparently there's another recent British tradition taking place down in Bow, police suppression of the Critical Mass bike ride.

Patrick Swayze
27-07-2012, 11:37 PM
the opening ceremony has been like a nazi rally for children

Local Authority
27-07-2012, 11:43 PM
can't wait for the illuminati crew to jump on this

Local Authority
27-07-2012, 11:47 PM
apparently that burst water pipe in bethnal green recently was actually a plot by the illuminti to plant a bomb underneath the station. they're going to explode it and stage a fake alien landing then evacuate london to a secret bunker city underneath paddington station(they're not actually building crossrail).

whilst everyone's hidden underground they're going to wipe out the rest of humanity and then create the one world order from the inhabitants of london. using them to repopulate the earth.

so i hear anyway.

Mr. Tea
28-07-2012, 07:09 AM
Seems my tweet has been misunderstood. I was talking about the way it was handled in the show, not multiculturalism itself




Thank God the athletes have arrived! Now we can move on from leftie multi-cultural crap. Bring back red arrows, Shakespeare and the Stones!




The most leftie opening ceremony I have ever seen - more than Beijing, the capital of a communist state! Welfare tribute next?


.... (https://twitter.com/AidanBurleyMP?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=jonathansebire&utm_content=229017960491130880)

luka
28-07-2012, 11:25 AM
i watched it in a park in stratford. i liked it. i dont see how you could do it much better. it obviously wound up the right people.

Local Authority
28-07-2012, 12:39 PM
it wasn't bad until the athletes came on, it did drag a bit though

Ransbeeck
28-07-2012, 01:20 PM
I liked the part where the kid found a girl's phone and then called her to inform her.

Patrick Swayze
28-07-2012, 03:35 PM
.... (https://twitter.com/AidanBurleyMP?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=jonathansebire&utm_content=229017960491130880)

to be fair making the queen black half of her face was probably a bit much but I bet prince phillip loved it

crackerjack
28-07-2012, 07:18 PM
the opening ceremony has been like a nazi rally for children

Either this is a genius irony triple somersault I'm not clever enough to understand or idiocy that makes Aidan Burley look astute and informed.

WTF's the matter with you lot? It was brilliant beyond words. Get a grip.

It was also, whatever you might think of the corporate sickbag that accompanies everything touched by the Olympics, the best piece of socialist mass entertainment in memory.

rubberdingyrapids
28-07-2012, 07:20 PM
i liked the opening. much better than i expected. paul mccartney really needs to play some other beatles songs though. considering he did the jubilee and playing hey jude there, youd think hed play something different here. (plus i just hate hey jude).

re: multiculturalism, the ceremony seemed to not realise that there are people who arent black or white living in england/london. considering it was in east london where there is a large asian community, and in london, where there are tons of diff people, the ceremonys racial dynamics seemed to be stuck in 1980. im all for diversity in the media but even i felt it was perhaps a bit too overstressed. though it was better than seeing some bullshit nostalgic portrayal of ye olde england.

crackerjack
28-07-2012, 10:04 PM
I was surprised by the relative lack of Asians, but yunno, most of the guys out there were volunteers. Maybe there weren't that many Asians volunteering.

And I'd be interested to know what would happen if Macca said no to Hey Jude and insisted on something else. Not sure he had much of a choice.

IdleRich
28-07-2012, 11:00 PM
I dunno, The Beatles had some other big tunes didn't they?
Thought that what I saw of the ceremony was pretty good. It's obviously not something for the likes of people who post on here to enjoy but I think if I had to curate a thing that was gonna represent Britain to the rest of the world then I would rely on things such as The Beatles which are known round the world and recognisably British. It's not exactly a time for subtlety, it's broad brushstrokes that can be understood by anyone all the way. I also like the angels on bikes or whatever they were but I guess that's just cos I like pretty, bright lights.

IdleRich
28-07-2012, 11:15 PM
Fuck! Just read the Daily Mail response. Absolutely incredible.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2180124/Olympics-opening-ceremony-NHS-disgracefully-glorified.html

Some choice phrases


"And how long did this shameful propaganda last for? A whole 15 minutes at the top of proceedings before viewers dozed off to the procession of banana republics and far-flung destinations nobody has ever heard of or even cares for."


"But it was the absurdly unrealistic scene – and indeed one that would spring from the kind of nonsensical targets and equality quotas we see in the NHS - showing a mixed-race middle-class family in a detached new-build suburban home, which was most symptomatic of the politically correct agenda in modern Britain.
This was supposed to be a representation of modern life in England but it is likely to be a challenge for the organisers to find an educated white middle-aged mother and black father living together with a happy family in such a set-up.
Almost, if not every, shot in the next sequence included an ethnic minority performer. The BBC presenter Hazel Irvine gushed about the importance of grime music (a form of awful electronic music popular among black youths) to east London."
It's written on purpose to get a rise I guess so I probably shouldn't give 'em the satisfaction but fucking hell this is horrendous.

rubberdingyrapids
29-07-2012, 10:11 AM
i always find the mail hilarious. until i see someone else reading it.

macca should have done something more joyous. not plodding like hey jude. at the jubilee he did all my loving - he could have done that here. unless they felt a song with a name like jude in the title was more 'british'. reason i hate hey jude is that its epic and big but never really moves you unlike a song like in my life, which i think would have been perfect, seeing as the lyrics are about history, memories, change, location, etc.

one of the best bits in the ceremony was the nhs bit where they were dancing to some old jazz tune. made me think of dennis potter or something. really brilliant moment.

crackerjack
29-07-2012, 10:27 AM
Seems even the Mail has second thoughts and has edited it - without saying so.

http://botherer.org/2012/07/28/the-daily-mail-and-how-an-nhs-death-means-racism-is-fine/

IdleRich
29-07-2012, 12:25 PM
I'm not surprised - that was too much even for them wasn't it? What with Leveson and all they probably decided that they needed to keep their heads down a little bit.

Bangpuss
29-07-2012, 12:55 PM
I like the fact that the first Google search result for Rick Dewsbury (the author of that Mail article) is this: http://johnjosephwilliamson.com/2012/07/28/press-complaints-commission-rick-dewsbury-article/

I don't see the point of opening or closing ceremonies.

Bangpuss
29-07-2012, 12:59 PM
Rick Dewsbury has quickly shut down his Twitter account. Something tells me this article is going to get the Mail into a lot of shit. Even Mail readers in the comments below the article are horrified, which makes sense, since the Mail's predominantly older readership relies on the NHS even more than the rest of us.

benjybars
29-07-2012, 01:20 PM
yeah i have to admit the ceremony was quality.

although they really should have got Wiley to spit some bars over Eskimo, even if it was just a quick 16..

IdleRich
29-07-2012, 03:05 PM
"Rick Dewsbury has quickly shut down his Twitter account. Something tells me this article is going to get the Mail into a lot of shit. Even Mail readers in the comments below the article are horrified, which makes sense, since the Mail's predominantly older readership relies on the NHS even more than the rest of us."
Plus, most of them probably liked the ceremony - they don't want to be told they've just participated willingly in some kind of Stalinist act of anti-British socialism.

crackerjack
29-07-2012, 04:25 PM
Plus, most of them probably liked the ceremony - they don't want to be told they've just participated willingly in some kind of Stalinist act of anti-British socialism.

ON which note, reposting this AA Gill quote that I put on FB earlier



"When we saw Ban Ki-moon, Doreen Lawrence and Shami Chakrabarti carrying the Olympic flag, I could hear the gasps of half the Tory party and the Daily Mail’s commentariat swallowing its collective tongue with apoplectic rage. They were madly tweeting that it was all a bunch of leftie multicultural propaganda and they were right: it was. And it was right to be, because leftie multicultural propaganda is what most of the country is most proud of."

vimothy
29-07-2012, 04:38 PM
I dunno if I'd describe the ceremony as "good"--it made me think of T4: The Musical--but the whole thing is fascinating.

Patrick Swayze
29-07-2012, 05:17 PM
Either this is a genius irony triple somersault I'm not clever enough to understand or idiocy that makes Aidan Burley look astute and informed.

WTF's the matter with you lot? It was brilliant beyond words. Get a grip.

It was also, whatever you might think of the corporate sickbag that accompanies everything touched by the Olympics, the best piece of socialist mass entertainment in memory.

socialist mass entertainment with lots of flags, national anthems and james bond. a national socialist rally for children.

Patrick Swayze
29-07-2012, 05:25 PM
im not saying it was anti-semitic. just lacking any sense of decency or perspective in this, the age of austerity

crackerjack
29-07-2012, 05:29 PM
socialist mass entertainment with lots of flags, national anthems and james bond. a national socialist rally for children.

OK, seems I was right first time - you are an idiot. Guess it's one of the iron rules of dissensus that some numpty squeals about Nazism the minute they see a national flag.

Patrick Swayze
29-07-2012, 06:07 PM
OK, seems I was right first time - you are an idiot. Guess it's one of the iron rules of dissensus that some numpty squeals about Nazism the minute they see a national flag.

and there was me giving you the benefit of the doubt and thinking you were joking when you said it was 'brilliant beyond words'

you must have wet yourself with excitement when you saw the new batman film

Leo
29-07-2012, 09:36 PM
i was out at the start of the opening ceremony and missed the queen/james bond thing, anyone have a link to a video? either the tv network or olympic committee seem to have cracked down on postings, all i could find online was an excerpt on the bbc site.

Sectionfive
29-07-2012, 11:38 PM
sure

http://www.rt.com/news/line/2012-07-30/#id34992

Leo
30-07-2012, 02:05 AM
sure

http://www.rt.com/news/line/2012-07-30/#id34992

hmm...something must have changed, not there now. thanks anyway.

baboon2004
30-07-2012, 10:17 AM
Can't understand the praise for this. I only saw the trailer for it, but it looked like It's a Royal Knockout, only a bit more embarrassing.

Apparently when the Rwandan team came out the commentator said something along the lines of "They've done well to get here. Maybe they can be known for something other than genocide now"

I do feel proud to be British because someone cycled quite fast yesterday, though.

IdleRich
30-07-2012, 10:25 AM
I hope that's true. Nothing would surprise me though.

baboon2004
30-07-2012, 10:29 AM
My colleague at work said she watched the bit where all the athletes parade around, and that's pretty much verbatim. Sheer class

IdleRich
30-07-2012, 11:16 AM
One thing I don't understand is how the interface works between the sponsorship and the actual athletes. Let's say I am a very good runner (unlikely I know) and I qualify through my national association for the Olympics, then I'm told that I'm not allowed to display any of the stuff that isn't officially approved when I'm competing or warming up or anything really. Why not? Where did I sign up to agreeing to promote the companies involved? Was there some small print that I didn't read when I joined my national federation? If not then how can they enforce it? If I turned up drinking a Pepsi then would there be sporting repercussions (maybe a ban from competing)? How did being outstanding in my field lead to my unwitting agreement to advertise certain companies and not advertise others?
I appreciate that these are not questions that most athletes are likely to ask or protest about; they get given some free stuff and then they run (swim or jump) in it but it seems a reasonable question to me. How does achievement lead inexorably to this point? Was there somewhere they could have opted out?

baboon2004
30-07-2012, 11:22 AM
About the Ryan Giggs/Craig Bellamy anthem refusal, before I forget:

'Football fans and patriots turned to Twitter to express their outrage with people branding the anthem dissenters as "small-minded little nationalists", "idiots" and "un-British".'

Not sure about the sponsorship - would be interesting to see how national federations would try to enforce it if someone turned up in a Nike kit (maybe they do? haven't watched enough to know). Waiting for Usain Bolt to arrive at trackside with a KFC. Please let it happen.

BareBones
30-07-2012, 12:18 PM
loved the bit with mr bean playing vangelis

BareBones
30-07-2012, 12:20 PM
did everyone clock those few athletes coming out representing "independent olympics athletes" rather than any particular country? what's the story with that? i like the idea.

baboon2004
30-07-2012, 01:22 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Olympic_Athletes_at_the_2012_Summer_Ol ympics

more prosaic than it might have been

Leo
30-07-2012, 01:30 PM
so now that the games are underway, what's the city like? how's the tube, traffic, sidewalks? are restaurants and pubs noticeably more crowded?

Pestario
30-07-2012, 01:31 PM
I was surprised by the relative lack of Asians, but yunno, most of the guys out there were volunteers. Maybe there weren't that many Asians volunteering.

I was a volunteer and on the ground this wasn't true. In terms of screen time maybe, but it never occurred to me when I saw the footage.

Ransbeeck
30-07-2012, 01:40 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Olympic_Athletes_at_the_2012_Summer_Ol ympics

more prosaic than it might have been

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1262146/id3.gif
They gave a good show.

baboon2004
30-07-2012, 01:50 PM
so now that the games are underway, what's the city like? how's the tube, traffic, sidewalks? are restaurants and pubs noticeably more crowded?

bizarrely, absolutely fine. Kings X was LESS crowded than usual this morning. remarkable.

Dusty
30-07-2012, 01:59 PM
Did no one else find it odd that a sizable chunk of the ceremony seemed to be all about celebrating Harry Potter?

I know GB is otherwise bereft of literary history, but even so....

hucks
30-07-2012, 02:02 PM
Can't understand the praise for this. I only saw the trailer for it

In all fairness, maybe that's why you don't understand it.

As far as it was possible for something like that to be good, it was pretty good.

Leo
30-07-2012, 02:07 PM
bizarrely, absolutely fine. Kings X was LESS crowded than usual this morning. remarkable.

cool...i'd read that some businesses were thinking of letting their people work from home, maybe that's part of it.

luka
30-07-2012, 02:09 PM
Quote Originally Posted by baboon2004 View Post
Can't understand the praise for this. I only saw the trailer for it
In all fairness, maybe that's why you don't understand it.

lool. it was really well done. its for a massive international audience, most of whom have barely heard of the uk. i loved it. watch it.

crackerjack
30-07-2012, 03:06 PM
One thing I don't understand is how the interface works between the sponsorship and the actual athletes. Let's say I am a very good runner (unlikely I know) and I qualify through my national association for the Olympics, then I'm told that I'm not allowed to display any of the stuff that isn't officially approved when I'm competing or warming up or anything really. Why not? Where did I sign up to agreeing to promote the companies involved? Was there some small print that I didn't read when I joined my national federation? If not then how can they enforce it? If I turned up drinking a Pepsi then would there be sporting repercussions (maybe a ban from competing)? How did being outstanding in my field lead to my unwitting agreement to advertise certain companies and not advertise others?


Well you do sign up when you join your national team. And it's there in the contract.

Presumably any company thinking of sponsoring an athlete already knows the deal. The Olympics is the IOC's baby and they can take it away from anyone who won't play by their rules.

Athletes are allowed rival sponsorship on their essential kit - for a runner, say, that's shoes – but not their clothes.

But anyway, this is an interesting piece outlining the dispute over exactly where the line is drawn.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/9067763/London-2012-Olympics-GBs-medallists-may-be-barefooted-on-podium-after-BOA-take-tough-stance-over-sponsorship.html

baboon2004
30-07-2012, 03:24 PM
In all fairness, maybe that's why you don't understand it.

As far as it was possible for something like that to be good, it was pretty good.

fair nuff. aside from the particulars of the ceremony itself, the crowing nationalism around it and the regurgitation of press releases in the papers masquerading as reporting was too much to bear.

baboon2004
30-07-2012, 03:32 PM
lool. it was really well done. its for a massive international audience, most of whom have barely heard of the uk. i loved it. watch it.

surely only (some) americans haven't heard of the uk? (which i can't blame them for - must be difficult to remember the names of all 51 states etc etc)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/30/ye-shiwen-world-record-olympics-2012 Apparently the American swimming director (or whatever) is going off on one about a Chinese swimmer being a certainty for doping. Very funny. You train for years to the exclusion of everything and then get beaten by a 16-year-old who's smacked up to their eyeballs (it does seem that the improvement curve of the swimmer concerned defies any other explanation, like Florence Griffith-Joyner back in the day). The futility of life and top-level sport, eh...

Maybe they should hold all the medal ceremonies in 2020. Just to be sure.

Never knew before that Carl Lewis had insinuated Usain Bolt was doped up after the 9.69 world record.

mistersloane
30-07-2012, 04:35 PM
so now that the games are underway, what's the city like? how's the tube, traffic, sidewalks? are restaurants and pubs noticeably more crowded?

I think people who drive in the daytimes are getting it the worst.

I'm South of the river and it's barely discernable here, except for more lost people than usual on tubes, staring at maps. Saw some soldiers on the tube which was exciting.

petergunn
30-07-2012, 11:12 PM
Well you do sign up when you join your national team. And it's there in the contract.

Presumably any company thinking of sponsoring an athlete already knows the deal. The Olympics is the IOC's baby and they can take it away from anyone who won't play by their rules.

Athletes are allowed rival sponsorship on their essential kit - for a runner, say, that's shoes – but not their clothes.

But anyway, this is an interesting piece outlining the dispute over exactly where the line is drawn.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/9067763/London-2012-Olympics-GBs-medallists-may-be-barefooted-on-podium-after-BOA-take-tough-stance-over-sponsorship.html

this was why michael jordan had a flag draped over his shoulder during the gold medal ceremony in 1992, to hide the reebok logo on his team warm up suit...

simon silverdollar
31-07-2012, 12:07 AM
lool. it was really well done. its for a massive international audience, most of whom have barely heard of the uk. i loved it. watch it.

Yeah LOVED the bit where it was 1000s of people raving to soul II soul.
So glad he chose to celebrate that side of the uk

Mr. Tea
31-07-2012, 10:20 AM
socialist mass entertainment with lots of flags, national anthems and james bond. a national socialist rally for children.

By that argument, any big public spectacle that's intended to bring people together is "socialist"; throw in some flags and it's "national-socialist". But I think that only works if you stretch those terms to breaking point. How many national-socialist or Fascist rallies can you think of that featured delegations proudly representing almost every country in the world?

And if there is one thing this Games is resolutely not, it's "socialist", surely? Of course I'm no expert on the history of Olympic sponsorship but by the sound of it, there's a good case to be made for 2012 being the most corporate Games ever. Can anyone chip in on this? Has there been quite this much emphasis on expunging every trace of Pepsi or Burger King from a previous Games?

I haven't seen the ceremony yet as I was at work while it was on, oddly enough, but I'll try and catch in on youtube (assuming it's there) this evening.

crackerjack
31-07-2012, 10:42 AM
More on the stuff Idlerich was mentioning upthread - pasted in full since you probably don't have a Times login.


Sanya Richards-Ross is leading a campaign to remove restrictions on athletes making money
Some of Team USA’s top athletes are demanding changes to sponsorship rules so that they can cash in on appearing at the Games.
Sanya Richards-Ross, a two-time gold medal-winner in the 4 x 400 metres, said that the Olympic ideal was at odds with reality and that athletes should be allowed to make money from their success. “Six billion dollars is being traded here so why do we compete for free?” she asked.
She is leading a Twitter campaign to remove the restrictions on what can be promoted. The International Olympic Committee’s Rule 40 bars athletes from using their names or image for advertising during the Games period.
Richards-Ross says that the rule penalises those who do not share sponsors with the IOC. “Rule 40 is restricting us because only 2 per cent of athletes have been able to tweet because they have IOC sponsors. That means 98 per cent of their peers can’t, and we are disgruntled. We understand the IOC are protecting their sponsors but we want to have a voice too. The Olympic ideal and the Olympic reality are now different.”
Promoting sponsors on social media sites such as Twitter and Facebook is only one matter of contention. Richards-Ross and others also believe that athletes should be paid to compete. If Richards-Ross wins the 400 metres in London she will net $100,000 (£64,000). The British Olympic Association offers no such incentive.
Mark Adams, the IOC communications chief, said: “For one month we ask [athletes] not to endorse products not related to the Olympics.”

IdleRich
31-07-2012, 11:05 AM
Thanks Steve. Nice to see that some athletes are rebelling a little bit... if only to get more money for themselves rather than against the actual nature of the thing itself.
This bit


"Well you do sign up when you join your national team. And it's there in the contract."
But (correct me if I'm wrong) there is no way that you can compete and be part of the national set-up if you don't sign up? You have a choice between competing and advertising or not? I guess I don't complain about football teams wearing the relevant shirts but this seems quite different to me somehow.

crackerjack
31-07-2012, 12:05 PM
But (correct me if I'm wrong) there is no way that you can compete and be part of the national set-up if you don't sign up?

Not at the moment, I guess. I suppose contracts are imposed by national associations and they're dutybound to include all IOC's rules. So you have one trolley-load of tie-ins not to infringe (IOC's) and then another (BOA for a Brit) - and obviously the two don't trample on each other's toes.

Trouble for athletes is that while they can make £££ running on the European circuit, they rely almost entirely on Olympics and World Championships for recognition. While that remains the case, athletes will just have to suck it up or find some form of collective bargaining. There are very, very few who could menace their national associations by threatening individual withdrawal.

baboon2004
31-07-2012, 12:29 PM
North Korea 4th in the medals table. Pretty impressive really. Will be quite funny if they finish above Britain (won't happen, obviously - Britain are far too good at cycling and other stuff i can't remember)

Leo
31-07-2012, 11:29 PM
the other action:

http://espn.go.com/olympics/summer/2012/story/_/id/8133052/athletes-spill-details-dirty-secrets-olympic-village-espn-magazine

paolo
01-08-2012, 09:34 AM
The Olympics are actually pretty awesome

mistersloane
01-08-2012, 09:42 AM
the other action:

http://espn.go.com/olympics/summer/2012/story/_/id/8133052/athletes-spill-details-dirty-secrets-olympic-village-espn-magazine

That piece, and especially this
"two French handballers dressed only in socks, shoes, jockstraps, neckties and hats on top of a dining table, feeding one another lunch"
is going to give me nightmares for some years to come. Hell. On. Earth.

Bangpuss
01-08-2012, 10:50 AM
Both Sun and Mirror have cut-out Bradley Wiggins sideburns on their front pages today. Just shows that the 'public imagination' isn't really that imaginative. He can grow facial hair and ride a bike fast. Oooh!

luka
01-08-2012, 10:53 AM
ye shiwen 叶诗文 叶means leaf 诗 poem 文 literature

Patrick Swayze
01-08-2012, 12:31 PM
By that argument, any big public spectacle that's intended to bring people together is "socialist"; throw in some flags and it's "national-socialist". But I think that only works if you stretch those terms to breaking point. How many national-socialist or Fascist rallies can you think of that featured delegations proudly representing almost every country in the world?

And if there is one thing this Games is resolutely not, it's "socialist", surely? Of course I'm no expert on the history of Olympic sponsorship but by the sound of it, there's a good case to be made for 2012 being the most corporate Games ever. Can anyone chip in on this? Has there been quite this much emphasis on expunging every trace of Pepsi or Burger King from a previous Games?

I haven't seen the ceremony yet as I was at work while it was on, oddly enough, but I'll try and catch in on youtube (assuming it's there) this evening.

the mass delusion and enforced enthusiasm on the radio tv etc is quite creepy. I don't actually think that its similar to nazism though.

I didn't say it was socialist.

but to answer your question, I guess the 1936 Berlin Olympics.

I think those games were all about legacy too.

Leo
01-08-2012, 01:33 PM
the olympics can be a bit of a headfuck for the average middle-age male. first i started to feel like a bit of a perv while watching the women's gymnastics, since they're all about 16 years old in skintight leotards. then i flipped over to women's swimming, where they all look like they could kick my ass.

Mr. Tea
01-08-2012, 01:43 PM
the mass delusion and enforced enthusiasm on the radio tv etc is quite creepy.

Well they're not enforcing it very well if your comments are anything to go by.


I don't actually think that its similar to nazism though.


Then why did you say it was, other than to be oh-so-shocking? You've Godwinned yourself pretty hard here, it has to be said.

baboon2004
01-08-2012, 01:47 PM
the olympics would be fine without the absurdly over-the-top nationalism, the absurdly over the top corporatism (leading to a lot of horrible treatment of people in the name of Ronald McDonald), the theft from the public purse to pay for it (whilst allegedly it couldn't have happened without the sponsors) and the sailing.

After that, you're left with some pretty good sport.

Patrick Swayze
01-08-2012, 02:41 PM
Well they're not enforcing it very well if your comments are anything to go by.



Then why did you say it was, other than to be oh-so-shocking? You've Godwinned yourself pretty hard here, it has to be said.

im not on tv or radio

I was exaggerating, in the spirit of the grand opening ceremony. I don't think it's shocking (even ironically) but it seems to have been, eye-catching, at least.

Lichen
01-08-2012, 04:28 PM
the olympics would be fine without the absurdly over-the-top nationalism, the absurdly over the top corporatism (leading to a lot of horrible treatment of people in the name of Ronald McDonald), the theft from the public purse to pay for it (whilst allegedly it couldn't have happened without the sponsors) and the sailing.

After that, you're left with some pretty good sport.

Exactly. And as a viewer it's in your capacity, as it is in the competitors', to focus on the good stuff.

baboon2004
01-08-2012, 04:41 PM
Well yes, but you can focus on both. Doesn't mean you enjoy the sport bits you like any less, just means you wish the circumstances were different and corporatism hadn't sullied the thing.

Any figures on relative investment of corporates versus the public?

Leo
01-08-2012, 05:13 PM
as irritating as it might be, i can't imagine how a gathering of thousands of athletes from around the world for almost two weeks of organized competition could possibly be accomplished without the "corporatization" factor, let alone government funding. not sure how it worked in the early years of the olympics before companies went sponsorship crazy (probably just more government funding, i suppose), but there's no way it could be possible today.

baboon2004
01-08-2012, 05:31 PM
not sure, tbh. Public money could certainly have covered what we were told the cost would be in 2005, that's for sure. Shedloads of waste.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/01/london-2012-michael-phelps-lord-coe
Coe is SUCH A MASSIVE PRICK. Such a pathetically insular attitude.

IdleRich
01-08-2012, 07:06 PM
They could save a lot of money by having events all round the country and using more existing stadiums and other facilities as they do in the World Cup.
Greatest ever Olympian? Dunno but seeing as you can win loads of events in swimming it's not comparable to sprinting that's for sure. Free-style is the fastest way to the end and back and compares well to a running race, having the other strokes as events in their own right is like having 100m hop or 100m running backwards as another event. They should get rid of breast stroke etc they're pointless.
Then again Redgrave can hardly be called the greatest ever Olympian, I appreciate that you can only beat what's in front of you and he has been very successful over a long period but ultimately you simply can't think about making that claim if you're in a minority sport - ninety nine percent of the world has never had the chance to row one of those boats that Redgrave kept winning in, for all anyone knows I would have been better than him given the opportunity. And if that seems like a stretch it's not unreasonable to suggest that one of the millions of people from Africa or wherever who never dreamt of rowing might well have been better.
For me, to be the greatest across all disciplines you need to a) be in a sport that is open to pretty much anyone (that rules out dressage or yachting but that should be self-evident anyway) b) win it by a long way or against the odds etc c) and do it more than once. Then once you've used those criteria to whittle it down you start talking about those extra factors that make them special.
Edit: there is some flexibility, a sport that's open to almost all is possible as long as the athlete excelled in the other categories and so on and so forth

Mr. Tea
01-08-2012, 07:28 PM
Here's one for you: what's the difference between patriotism and nationalism?

And another one: is it possible to have a sporting event in which competitors represent their country without it being to some degree nationalistic/patriotic?

Bangpuss
01-08-2012, 07:30 PM
Here, here! I get the feeling that a lot of minority sports are only played by people who weren't very good at the major sports as kids. So a lot of the volleyball players are basically second-rate tennis players who couldn't get into the team when they were a kid, so decided to compete in an event where there weren't as many naturally gifted people. Just a hunch. Because when I were at school, the only kids who played volleyball and sports like that were the ones who weren't in any of the sports teams.

Bangpuss
01-08-2012, 07:31 PM
Given a few weeks to get to grips with the variables, I bet Federer, Nadal and Djokovic would be able to compete as a world-class volleyball players. I doubt the reverse is true.

Mr. Tea
01-08-2012, 07:32 PM
Any figures on relative investment of corporates versus the public?

I heard, from a so far unauthenticated source (my brother, the other day) that a measly £1bn of the total bill has come from corporate sponsors. Which kind of boggles the mind, given the amount of power ceded to those sponsors.

To say nothing of the fact that the onerous task of frogmarching anyone caught with a can of Pepsi out of the stadium is being enforced by cops, squaddies and G4S goons who are being paid out of the public purse.

Mr. Tea
01-08-2012, 07:56 PM
Then again Redgrave can hardly be called the greatest ever Olympian, I appreciate that you can only beat what's in front of you and he has been very successful over a long period but ultimately you simply can't think about making that claim if you're in a minority sport - ninety nine percent of the world has never had the chance to row one of those boats that Redgrave kept winning in, for all anyone knows I would have been better than him given the opportunity.

Oh man, I know what you mean. I could have been Usain Bolt if only I'd had the good fortune to be really, really, really, really, really good at running.

Leo
01-08-2012, 09:23 PM
I heard, from a so far unauthenticated source (my brother, the other day) that a measly £1bn of the total bill has come from corporate sponsors.

from the guardian back in may:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/may/13/london-2012-olympics-coe-sponsor?INTCMP=SRCH


About two-thirds of the organising committee's £2bn operating budget is raised from domestic and international sponsors.

Locog's budget is privately raised, but the Games take place in stadiums and infrastructure provided from the £9.3bn public funding package. Locog's budget is also underwritten by the government, which must make up any shortfall if it fails to balance.

Mr. Tea
01-08-2012, 09:30 PM
OK, so about £1.7bn out of more than £9bn total cost. Hardly the lion's share.

baboon2004
01-08-2012, 10:53 PM
They could save a lot of money by having events all round the country and using more existing stadiums and other facilities as they do in the World Cup.
Greatest ever Olympian? Dunno but seeing as you can win loads of events in swimming it's not comparable to sprinting that's for sure. Free-style is the fastest way to the end and back and compares well to a running race, having the other strokes as events in their own right is like having 100m hop or 100m running backwards as another event. They should get rid of breast stroke etc they're pointless.
Then again Redgrave can hardly be called the greatest ever Olympian, I appreciate that you can only beat what's in front of you and he has been very successful over a long period but ultimately you simply can't think about making that claim if you're in a minority sport - ninety nine percent of the world has never had the chance to row one of those boats that Redgrave kept winning in, for all anyone knows I would have been better than him given the opportunity. And if that seems like a stretch it's not unreasonable to suggest that one of the millions of people from Africa or wherever who never dreamt of rowing might well have been better.
For me, to be the greatest across all disciplines you need to a) be in a sport that is open to pretty much anyone (that rules out dressage or yachting but that should be self-evident anyway) b) win it by a long way or against the odds etc c) and do it more than once. Then once you've used those criteria to whittle it down you start talking about those extra factors that make them special.
Edit: there is some flexibility, a sport that's open to almost all is possible as long as the athlete excelled in the other categories and so on and so forth

Carl Lewis is an obvious suggestion. He achieved unbelievable things. Michael Johnson, for sheer 'wtf' factor, has to be close too. Maybe a couple of gymnasts. Certainly they score way above that prick Coe.

mistersloane
02-08-2012, 05:36 AM
Given a few weeks to get to grips with the variables, I bet Federer, Nadal and Djokovic would be able to compete as a world-class volleyball players. I doubt the reverse is true.

Really? I so DON'T CARE, and really, please, but please, really? Really? But I so DON'T CARE. Really.

grizzleb
02-08-2012, 06:14 AM
Oh man, I know what you mean. I could have been Usain Bolt if only I'd had the good fortune to be really, really, really, really, really good at running.

The comparison really doesn't hold though does it. Because running is a sport as accessable as having a body and rowing involves kinds of weather, equipment, etc that few people will have access to.

Mr. Tea
02-08-2012, 07:10 AM
The comparison really doesn't hold though does it. Because running is a sport as accessable as having a body and rowing involves kinds of weather, equipment, etc that few people will have access to.

Yeah I know, I'm just being a cunt.

Bangpuss
02-08-2012, 08:33 AM
Paula Radcliffe for taking a dump during the marathon, and then coming to terms with the fact that it would be the number one talking point of her career from then on.

Mr. Tea
02-08-2012, 08:36 AM
Paula Radcliffe for taking a dump during the marathon, and then coming to terms with the fact that it would be the number one talking point of her career from then on.

Number Two talking point, surely?

I read a pretty good article recently about elite athletes shitting themselves in the line of duty - I'll post it here if I can find it.

Mr. Tea
02-08-2012, 09:42 AM
http://www.telekin.co.uk/b3ta/120801borisjohnson.jpg

Slothrop
02-08-2012, 09:52 AM
Dunno but seeing as you can win loads of events in swimming it's not comparable to sprinting that's for sure. Free-style is the fastest way to the end and back and compares well to a running race, having the other strokes as events in their own right is like having 100m hop or 100m running backwards as another event. They should get rid of breast stroke etc they're pointless.
As far as "greatest ever olympian" stuff goes, agree, but as far as being pointless goes - well, the whole shebang is pointless in the grand scheme of things, it's just a question of pointless stuff that you're interested in vs pointless stuff that you aren't. If you want to take that line, all the fighting stuff could be replaced by a Mixed Martial Arts contest. Which the rifle shooting guys would probably win.

Mr. Tea
02-08-2012, 10:23 AM
If you want to take that line, all the fighting stuff could be replaced by a Mixed Martial Arts contest. Which the rifle shooting guys would probably win.

By the same token, Bolt would get his ass whupped by Lewis Hamilton or Jenson Button...

Bangpuss
02-08-2012, 10:32 AM
Number Two talking point, surely?

I'm surprised a lot of people still think she was having a piss, when in fact she was crapping. I wonder if we'd be taking the, err, piss quite as much/even more if a bloke did it...?

Please dig out the article about sportspeople shitting mid-contest.

muser
02-08-2012, 10:37 AM
it all looks pretty unhealthy, cyclists arms look fucking weird.

Patrick Swayze
02-08-2012, 11:07 AM
if the olympics involved more wild animals like gladiator then it would be worth hosting, basically. David Davis would probably emerge victorious at the end and be rude to Cameron in front of millions of rabid tourists

IdleRich
02-08-2012, 11:09 AM
"As far as "greatest ever olympian" stuff goes, agree, but as far as being pointless goes - well, the whole shebang is pointless in the grand scheme of things, it's just a question of pointless stuff that you're interested in vs pointless stuff that you aren't. If you want to take that line, all the fighting stuff could be replaced by a Mixed Martial Arts contest. Which the rifle shooting guys would probably win."
Yeah, the whole thing is pointless, but even given that, the breast stroke is higher up the internal hierarchy of pointlessness than the 100m sprint or even any of the freestyle swimming events.

baboon2004
02-08-2012, 11:29 AM
I'm surprised a lot of people still think she was having a piss, when in fact she was crapping. I wonder if we'd be taking the, err, piss quite as much/even more if a bloke did it...?


tbh I think it would've been judged more acceptable for a man (though obv they'd still have been ridiculed for a while)

Slothrop
02-08-2012, 11:37 AM
Yeah, the whole thing is pointless, but even given that, the breast stroke is higher up the internal hierarchy of pointlessness than the 100m sprint or even any of the freestyle swimming events.

But still nowhere near as pointless as football, hockey, tennis, badminton etc. We don't come up with sports based on whether or not they're pointless, we come up with them based on whether or not they're challenging to do and interesting / impressive to watch.

droid
02-08-2012, 11:42 AM
Yeah, the whole thing is pointless, but even given that, the breast stroke is higher up the internal hierarchy of pointlessness than the 100m sprint or even any of the freestyle swimming events.

Why is the breast stroke/butterfly any more pointless than the hurdles?

All sporting events are simply combinations of objectives and restrictions. By those criteria, wouldnt football be more pointless than rugby because its easier to just pick up the ball and run instead of all that unnecessarily fiddly kicking and passing stuff?

baboon2004
02-08-2012, 11:47 AM
i always thought swimming was a bit rubbish to watch, but I enjoy athletics a lot - probably because I know a lot more about it and can get into the characters/history/culture of it, cos in essence the two sports are similar in excitement value

droid
02-08-2012, 12:16 PM
I gained a relatively newfound respect for swimming a few years back when I tried to do some butterfly strokes whilst out for a swim on hols. After about two attempts my entire body ached for days.

Running is easy, swimming is really, really hard.

IdleRich
02-08-2012, 12:49 PM
"But still nowhere near as pointless as football, hockey, tennis, badminton etc. We don't come up with sports based on whether or not they're pointless, we come up with them based on whether or not they're challenging to do and interesting / impressive to watch."
True enough. I guess it just seems that running and swimming are analogous and you don't have these extra events with imposed conditions in running. I don't think hurdles is an argument against that, hurdles is running over harder terrain, not running in a sub-optimal manner.
I think there seems to be a distinction between the "purer" sports such as athletics and ones which are basically games (eg football). I don't at all mean to belittle the games, I just think about them subconsciously in a different way. Though in my olympics which would ban all the silly-walk swim styles I would probably also get rid of most of the teamsports cos in the majority of cases the olympics isn't the main event. I'd also get rid of synchronised swimming, synchronised diving, dressage, yachting etc etc
Or maybe you should have a lower class of event - gold in dressage for some fat millionaire sat on a horse should not even have the same name as the reward you get for years of slogging your guts out round a track or in a pool or whatever.
Agreed though - butterfly is fucking difficult.

Slothrop
02-08-2012, 12:56 PM
Racewalking is an olympic sport (and has been since the modern olympics has existed), though - that's pretty much analagous to breast stroke, I think...

It's an old chestnut, but I'd totally agree with removing anything where the olympics isn't the main event (including the cycling road race FWIW), I don't really see how they can justify the inclusion of sports where even people who are interested in that sport don't know who the olympic champions are.

baboon2004
02-08-2012, 01:05 PM
the football obviously being the worst offender of all, redefining pointlessness

IdleRich
02-08-2012, 01:19 PM
Men's football.


"Racewalking is an olympic sport (and has been since the modern olympics has existed), though - that's pretty much analagous to breast stroke, I think..."
I was gonna mention the walking one but I thought that it was so obvious that that shouldn't exist that I didn't even need to mention it. Agreed it is analogous to breast stroke. Although there isn't one over a hundred metres and if there was I doubt that Usain Bolt would enter.

Mr. Tea
02-08-2012, 04:02 PM
Please dig out the article about sportspeople shitting mid-contest.


AFTER RACING NEARLY 140 miles, first through the ocean, then across the blackened lava fields of Kona, Hawaii, Julie Moss crested the final hill of the 1982 Ironman Triathlon alone in front, hovering near delirium. She was also about 45 seconds from becoming, as she remembers it, "the ultimate, giant, chocolate mess."

Since the 16-mile mark of the marathon, Moss, a vivacious 23-year-old with a shock of red hair, had managed to hold back the field as well as the considerable contents of her intestines. Suddenly, like a beacon in the Pacific twilight, a Sizzler steak house appeared, cool and inviting, atop the hill on Palani Road. Almost a half mile from the finish, Moss had a gastronomical gamble to make. She gazed back and forth, evaluating her options -- relief by way of the Sizzler bathroom in front, an evaporating lead in the inky darkness behind -- all the while contemplating the ultimate unspeakable taboo almost every elite athlete faces at some point.

Do I stop? Or go?

Exhausted and dangerously dehydrated, Moss was losing control of her body with every step. But she trudged on, pushing herself toward victory. The legs went first. A quarter mile after passing the Sizzler, Moss wobbled, then her knees buckled inward and she telescoped to the ground like a dynamited building. The moment she hit the pavement, her bowels cut loose, emptying against her will. The torrent breached her dainty, light-blue running shorts and moved down her legs, where the hot, acidic fecal matter stung her skin and the putrid stench tattooed the inside of her nostrils.

http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=5651802&type=story

IdleRich
02-08-2012, 04:10 PM
That's written with rather too much salivating for my liking. Then what happened, did she continue? Surely she must have done after 145 miles.

grizzleb
02-08-2012, 04:12 PM
Me and my little bro got right into the women's weightlifting yesterday. Pretty nuts seeing pretty 19 year old tunisian girls lifting the weight of an obese person over their heads. Some interesting characters doing that I'd thought, not exactly the most obviously glamorous sport for women to be doing.

Mr. Tea
02-08-2012, 11:47 PM
Anyone know how our very own Sunny Brar is getting on?

http://www.yorkstrength.com/images/news_26.jpg

I heard she has a very impressive sna-...no, I'm sorry, I just can't.

mistersloane
03-08-2012, 01:14 AM
http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=5651802&type=story

I really have to ask, did you look that up...or...sorry. I do just have to ask. Like Rich says, it's lacivious.

Bangpuss
03-08-2012, 09:23 AM
Suddenly, like a beacon in the Pacific twilight, a Sizzler steak house appeared

Oh yeah. Sizzler steak house. Imagine if she'd taken the calculated risk of reducing her lead, rushed into the Sizzler and discovered they were a) out of bog-roll; or b) the toilets were busy.

I agree it's lacivious. But that's what makes it funny. This must have been nominated for a Pulitzer, you'd think...

Bangpuss
03-08-2012, 09:33 AM
David Inglis, a professor at Scotland's Aberdeen University and the author of A Sociological History of Excretory Experience

That's one for the Dissensus book club, surely.

Mr. Tea
03-08-2012, 12:57 PM
I really have to ask, did you look that up...or...sorry. I do just have to ask. Like Rich says, it's lacivious.

It was just lurking my browser history - probably someone sent it in an email yonks ago. Quite possibly my brother, he's good for stories like that - or like this (http://www.wsfa.com/story/19176838/man-who-drove-off-cliff-while-texting-warns-others).

baboon2004
03-08-2012, 01:02 PM
"After the crash, Chance had a broken neck, a crushed face, a fractured skull, and traumatic brain injuries. Doctors had to bring him back to life three times."

Sounds like a bit of a whinger to me.

Leo
03-08-2012, 04:55 PM
probably not news to you at this point, but...

After Warnings of an Olympic Crush, Businesses Suffer in a Deserted London


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/03/sports/olympics/after-warnings-of-an-olympic-crush-businesses-suffer-in-a-deserted-london.html?_r=1&hp

baboon2004
03-08-2012, 05:15 PM
yeah, it's fucking eerie. best tube experience of my life over the past week. Long live the Olympics!

Decent comment from a guy in Atlanta:

"Before the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta the hype was: Restaurants will be packed, retailers will have record sales, rent your house or apartment for $10,000 per week – everybody gets rich!!

Folks it did not happen. Any non-sponsor was not even allowed anywhere near the actual Olympic venues, retailers lost money because the fear of all the crowds actually kept customers away and no apartment rented for $10K…or at all for that matter.

Sure, a couple of the Olympic venues are now put to good use – the baseball stadium and natatorium – but at what cost? We found this was pure hype and I do not know of one local that benefited one iota – know a quite a few that bought into the hype and lost.

As far as the ‘prestige’ of being the host city – baloney – you are left the dead carcass of the games and a lot of debt and traveling show moves on to the next sucker."

IdleRich
03-08-2012, 06:05 PM
Yeah, got the bus from Hackney to Clerkenwell and back today and it was dead. The bus stop I used on the way back had a sign on it saying "This stop will be affected by the Olympics so please make alternative plans or allow extra time for your journey" or words to that effect but there was just me and an old Asian couple. Suits me perfectly anyway. I could do without the recordings of Boris on all the buses telling you not to get to get caught out by the crush though.

Leo
06-08-2012, 09:03 PM
following on benjybars post on the "hot new skool babes" thread (agreed!)...is it just me or is this a rather attractive group of olympians this time around? aside from the women's gymnasts, who all look like they're 12 years old, there seem to be loads of lookers both male and female in all different competitions, all with perfectly toned bodies. i mean, c'mon, women's volleyball?!

i know my wife has enjoyed the men's swimming/diving, perhaps a bit too much. :slanted:

Mr. Tea
06-08-2012, 10:18 PM
all with perfectly toned bodies.

Makes a change from the lumpy fatsos you normally see at an Olympiad, anyway.

Leo
06-08-2012, 10:29 PM
Makes a change from the lumpy fatsos you normally see at an Olympiad, anyway.

ha! well, it is possible to have a well-tomed body and unattractive face, right?

Mr. Tea
06-08-2012, 10:54 PM
ha! well, it is possible to have a well-tomed body and unattractive face, right?

All too possible...

http://bp0.blogger.com/__1OzjxCtHZI/RzmlTgfvFPI/AAAAAAAABNk/ujF8iRi3nNA/s320/ronaldinho1.jpg

IdleRich
07-08-2012, 09:52 AM
Why a picture of Trisha?

IdleRich
07-08-2012, 10:39 AM
Maybe Shun Fujimoto is the greatest ever Olympian

Shun Fujimoto, Montreal 1976
A member of Japan's men's combined gymnastics team, Fujimoto received less attention than he might have done because he was sharing his showtime with Nadia Comaneci. His achievements, though, were remarkable.
As Fujimoto finished the final tumble of his floor routine, he broke his kneecap. Understandably in agony, he however decided not to tell his coach or his team-mates about his injury. "The competition was so close [Japan were battling USSR for the gold] and I didn't want the team to lose concentration worrying about me."
Ridiculously, he then took part in his next event, the pommel horse, scoring 9.5 out of 10. Next up were the rings, and the promise of a dismount from eight feet in the air. "I knew that if my posture was not good on landing, I would not receive a good score. I knew I must try to forget the pain". He pulled a twisting triple somersault, later admitting "the pain went through me like a knife", before landing, grimacing as his knee buckled slightly, and, with tears in eyes, raising his arms aloft. He scored 9.7, his best ever result.
Minutes later he staggered and fell. The kneecap, already broken, had now been dislocated as well, tearing the ligaments in his leg. Doctors forced him to withdraw from the competition. The Japanese team, now a man short, were inspired to gold by his sacrifice. Asked years later whether he would do it again, Fujimoto replied with an emphatic: "No, I would not".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/07/olympics20082

crackerjack
07-08-2012, 01:04 PM
Apologies for harking back to last week's row, but couldn't resist this.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/aug/06/morrissey-olympic-games?INTCMP=SRCH

After all, nothing says "that was a really fucking stupid thing like I said" than finding out Morrissey agrees with you.

Mr. Tea
07-08-2012, 03:02 PM
Why a picture of Trisha?

Zing!

I was telling a colleague about that Japanese gymnast the other day. Absolutely amazing. But still not a proper athlete because it's a judged event, right Rich?

paolo
07-08-2012, 04:20 PM
I feel slightly more patriotic now than I did a few weeks ago

Bangpuss
07-08-2012, 05:29 PM
I bet even the most hardcore Olympic fans cringe a little when they see showjumpers and dressagers* collecting medals.

*I don't know what the collective noun for people who ride the horses in dressage are called. Surely not just 'jockeys'?

Mr. Tea
07-08-2012, 08:00 PM
knob-

jockeys

Bangpuss
09-08-2012, 03:31 PM
Following on from Tea's enlightening post relating to athletes' bowel movements: LOL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEaWSIL9wJA

'In partnership with Olympic marathon runner Paula Radcliffe, Pampers U.K. will salute the spirit of play in every baby through their "Pampers Little Athlete" campaign.'

e/y
09-08-2012, 03:55 PM
http://k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/archives/011918.html

you
09-08-2012, 08:17 PM
decent lil article innit.

vimothy
09-08-2012, 11:25 PM
How should I feel about k-punk? Sometimes I read him and I think--that's quite reactionary, actually. For e.g., some of his observations about the Olympics are well made. It really is nauseatingly sentimental. (Remember Jung: "Sentimentality is a superstructure covering brutality"). Generally I'm unable to watch it except with the sound off.

But there's something about his writing that is so dismal and joyless, it's just...

Bangpuss
10-08-2012, 10:14 AM
"Soon to be demolished"? That's not been confirmed yet, has it? If West Ham win the bid, they will reduce the capacity but they won't knock it down. If Tottenham win (which they could still do, having been granted judicial review), who knows what the fuck they will do with it. But seeing as Coe has bid for the 2017 World Athletic Championships to be held there, saying no matter what happens there will be a track in the stadium, I don't see the point of Tottenham knocking it down, since their original reason for demolishing it and starting again was that they didn't want a running track.

IdleRich
10-08-2012, 10:15 AM
Yeah, fairly uncontroversial article there but anyone who has been paying attention knows it all already don't they?

Mr. Tea
10-08-2012, 10:43 AM
k-punk not a fan of a super-commercialized, sponsorship-heavy, BBC-hyped Games. Next up: fire 'still hot', experts say.

craner
10-08-2012, 11:13 AM
Reactionary is a interesting word for that piece -- I felt a similar sensation when reading it, although the word I would choose is conservative. I also thought it was an aesthetic reaction masquerading as political analysis. Although his writing has become more explicitly politicised since 2003, his work still seems devoid of political content or base. His tone is more like conservative distaste for what has happened to culture in his neoliberal dystopia. Maybe he's not wrong and great and beautiful works can only be made in aristocracies and tyrannies.

IdleRich
10-08-2012, 02:27 PM
Anyway, enough of that, time for some real analysis

http://www.goroadachi.com/etemenanki/martian_resurrection.html


It was pretty good stuff we saw at the London Olympics Opening Ceremony on July 27. Perhaps not the most elegant opening ceremony we've seen as far as artistry and drama (that honor goes to Athens 2004), but more than adequate in terms of "whispering secrets" Enki-Prometheus style. Around here we weren't just watching, we were more actively engaged, anticipating pattern fulfillment. And boy did we ever get one!
Our multicontextual pattern assessment - most recently (re-)done in Aurora Code 2012 (July 21) - had indicated the following set of powerful themes to be in play during this period:

1. Royal & Martian pregnancy/baby, Arthurian/Grail bloodline
* Intertwined issues of Mars (missions, life, panspermia, resurrection) & baby of Prince William & Kate Middleton
2. Babylon/Tower of Babel
3. Venus/Morning Star/Lucifer
4. Sun (solar cycle, solar wind/flares/CMEs, aurora)
5. And more...

If you watched the opening ceremony, you know how they turned out. Or maybe not. While some of the confirmations were fairly obvious, in your face even, like the "Tower of Babel" and the "Babylon Baby," there were other parts probably too cryptic for the average observer to discern. Especially the "Martian panspermia" segment. I am writing this article to elucidate what "really" happened at the Olympics opening ceremony, what was whispered by "Enki" from behind the wall, so everyone can get on the same page with regard to the true level of pattern fulfillment witnessed there, and what it could mean for the future.
The situation is that we have hidden patterns converging, uniting past, present and future... for a Total Recall of Martian Genesis.
Let the Games Begin.

e/y
10-08-2012, 02:59 PM
^

http://www.supertorchritual.com/underground/images/12b/McCartney-KingArthur.jpg


..i.e. descendant of King Arthur, Grail bloodline... Diana, William-Kate... baby.

bahaha, what.

Mr. Tea
10-08-2012, 06:50 PM
Brilliant finds there, guys!

So I finally watched the opening ceremony yesterday while back in England for a couple of days. Actually I think for the most part it was pretty good, as far as anything that inherently ludicrous can be. Great choreography and sets. Mr. Bean. Dizzee. Yeah, it was cool. Though I wasn't entirely convinced by the segment that seemed to make a big deal of the fact that people have, like, mobile phones and stuff, as if that was meant to be some kind of national achievement.

The rings of fire rising out of the middle of the stadium were awesome.

vimothy
11-08-2012, 04:10 PM
I'd like to ask a question about the opening ceremony. It seems to have elicited strong reactions across the board--or at any rate, stronger than I would have predicted. Strong reactions suggests that there is something at stake, and I'd like to know what.

The general tenor here seems to have been positive, with some hints at more cynical attitudes (link to MKP, eg). Presumably, this reflects the way people related to the content of the ceremony and how they view London 2012 itself as well as their enjoyment of the spectacle. In a narrow sense, the ceremony opened the games, but there is obviously more to it than that--perhaps the ceremony represented Britain to itself and the rest of the world. Some like what they see, and others do not.

So, if it was a celebration, what was being celebrated? Was it a progressive reading of British culture or history? Some people--e.g., various Labour MPs, that Tory MP Cameron called a twat, Rowan Atkinson's brother, the Guardian--seem to think it was, while other people--e.g., Boris Johnson, Mark K-Punk, Richard Seymour--seem to think otherwise. They can't both be right, though. What do you think? Did you relate to it? Did the ceremony represent the country as a whole or just London? Was it just a silly musical? Am I reading too much into this?

you
11-08-2012, 04:37 PM
vim - my initial feeling after watching the ceremony was that is was good, pretty engaging and fun to watch. However, for me it did not represent the UK. I felt it was more like a tourism video, a bunch of cultural brands thrown together by two dozen media yes men. The feeling that this is how the country is to be portrayed to the rest of the world on the biggest stage is a touch irksome. Britain is not really about Corgis, Tea, The Bond Franchise, Dizzee Rascal and Coldplay - it is about so much more, things that cannot be packaged and branded up. The issue at stake is that this belief is at odds many in power, and almost every new landmark or endeavour seems to be about business and not people now - figures, I think £ have some voting powers nowadays, albeit without ballot boxes.


Where did mark comment on the opening ceremony? Twitter?

vimothy
11-08-2012, 05:00 PM
Good question. Think I imagined that, I'm afraid.

vimothy
11-08-2012, 05:40 PM
Interesting answer though, you. I suppose that I might disagree in one respect: I don't think that it's impossible to represent some of the essential characteristics of a community of people. On the other hand, I agree that it seemed a bit corporate and vacuous.

Maybe that's to be expected though--and not just because the games themselves are corporate...

you
11-08-2012, 05:42 PM
to respond further - when you ask "... if it was a celebration, what was being celebrated?" then to my eyes our cultural export business was very much the focus, or even reason for the celebration. It is this premise of presenting a country that comes from a pretty horrid place. There was very little celebration of people, just music, film and icons.

vimothy
11-08-2012, 05:57 PM
Yes, that's a good point. I remember being struck by how much of the ceremony was devoted to music. This is drifting a bit, but does our obsession with music ever strike you as odd? It seems so unprecedented, a genuinely new phenomenon.

you
11-08-2012, 06:16 PM
I can't really go into that point in detail, I have been tracking musics relationship to metaphysics and/or religion a lot, inadvertently, in my research into voice. Music was very very politicized for years, like, uh, since JC and that... logoscentricism has played a big role, as has a repression of the more corporeal and/or politcally dangerous phenomena (read music)..... recently though, music has become ubiquitous, amazingly so - Morrissey often comments about how LITTLE music there was in Manc in the 70's, how it was tough to find music, if you were into music that was unusual, whereas nowadays everyone is either into music OR THEY ARE MAKING IT!!! Now I know music has been culturally widespread and enjoyed before the 70's pre beatles, and WW eras had music for everyone to enjoy too -- - but somewhere is became a personal indulgence or past time - rather than a strictly social entity (thinking bit further back).This could be because music was reserved for kings as a luxury to enjoy for arts sake whereas now we can all get spotify or buy a 12 or a cassett or cd..... this is like itunes as salon.....

but this is straying off point (vim if you want stuff on the metaphysical tip pm me and I'll email you some nice books).

Perhaps - to tie things up a little, I could say that the international wholesale of something very personal and culturally loaded (e.g. - happy mondays) feels wrong, on some level, seems cold. Like your dad pimping your ex gf. There is no scene, society or people behind these things, just the memories. Again, raising its head is the detachment of people to the actual content - instead we are just left gazing at a parade of vacuous avatars of the past - end of history, no prsent shit innit?

vimothy
11-08-2012, 07:04 PM
I suppose that one way to make sense of it—and hopefully relate the two ideas—would be to say, in the modern world, people don’t really have meaningful roles to play within the community, because the community itself doesn’t exist in a substantive sense—that’s thought too old-fashioned, oppressive and divisive. So if life isn’t about fulfilling a role that you are in a sense born into, that is much bigger than you, that helps you relate to the world at large and understand your place in it, what is it about?

Well, life is really about realising yourself as an autonomous individual. That means that the only institutions that can have a material impact on the way society is ordered are the market and government bureaucracies. These institutions are ordered towards goals that are empty of content. For instance, we want to promote freedom, because everyone is equally an individual, and so should be allowed to realise themselves equally as such. This says nothing about what the Good in life actually is—since that is the sovereign choice of the individual.

Music is an ideal dimension across which this process can occur. Like consumerism more generally, music is a choice that doesn’t give rise to claims that conflict. Religion: potential source of conflict. Politics: potential source of conflict. Music is different. Music can be enjoyed alone, in groups. Of course, groups can always use music to differentiate themselves from other groups, and this can give rise to conflict. But anything in principle can be used to this end. Music qua music doesn’t have this property any more than cooking does, or extreme sports, or any other hobby.

But music is something that appeals to everyone across the board. It's empty, but it's inclusive--so it's the perfect thing to celebrate if what you want to celebrate is the ability of people to satisfy their desires, but you to ensure that conflict, the obvious result of a society of autonomous individuals, is never realised.

you
11-08-2012, 09:06 PM
Music is an ideal dimension across which this process can occur. Like consumerism more generally, music is a choice that doesn’t give rise to claims that conflict. Religion: potential source of conflict. Politics: potential source of conflict. Music is different. Music can be enjoyed alone, in groups. Of course, groups can always use music to differentiate themselves from other groups, and this can give rise to conflict. But anything in principle can be used to this end. Music qua music doesn’t have this property any more than cooking does, or extreme sports, or any other hobby.

But music is something that appeals to everyone across the board. It's empty, but it's inclusive--so it's the perfect thing to celebrate if what you want to celebrate is the ability of people to satisfy their desires, but you to ensure that conflict, the obvious result of a society of autonomous individuals, is never realised.

Vim - expand on the last point if you can. please.

Your last sentence - I would disagree with this, by being so isolated by meaningless (pop) autonomy and lack of potential to engage with more traditional systems I would say that this is realised.

I would also say (in response to the 2nd pg) that the task is to realise oneself as a non-autonomous individual and to understand that such autonomy is strictly under the bracket of a particularly vile system (modern caps)

vimothy
11-08-2012, 10:52 PM
I take the modern ideal to be the rational organisation of society around the freedom of the individual. Society promotes the ability of people to set their own goals and realise them. At the same time, society tries not to take a position on what the Good is. Since everyone is equally a free individual, everyone’s goals are equally valid.

That’s all well and good, but there’s a problem. What happens when these goals conflict? It’s obvious that the principle of equal freedom won’t help you resolve conflicts. But given that we’re promoting individual desire as the only good, without reference to the particular content of those desires, conflict should be inevitable.

One idea would be to say that in the war of all against all whoever is strongest wins. That seems too brutal though, so another approach is preferable. To prevent the Triumph of the Will scenario from occurring, society restricts the domain over which choices can be exercised. If people were to only make choices over, say, a set of consumption bundles, then we could avoid conflict over more substantive goods altogether. Promotion of equal freedom becomes a narrow technical problem of maximising consumption through whatever means are most effective.

Music is like any other consumption good. Some people collect CDs, some people collect little painted figurines. But the appeal of music is much wider than little painted figurines. Everyone in society can express their individuality and autonomy by choosing particular types of music to listen to. (And beyond simply listening, there are whole subcultures to become immersed in.) Since everyone can enjoy music in principle, music includes everyone. The inclusivity of music consumption as the expression of individuality recapitulates society’s basic commitment to valuing every individual's goals equally.

you
11-08-2012, 11:40 PM
One idea would be to say that in the war of all against all whoever is strongest wins. That seems too brutal though, so another approach is preferable. To prevent the Triumph of the Will scenario from occurring, (1)society restricts the domain over which choices can be exercised. If people were to only make choices over, say, a set of consumption bundles, then we could avoid conflict over more substantive goods altogether. Promotion of equal freedom becomes a narrow technical problem of maximising consumption through whatever means are most effective.

Music is like any other consumption good. Some people collect CDs, some people collect little painted figurines. But the appeal of music is much wider than little painted figurines. (2)Everyone in society can express their individuality and autonomy by choosing particular types of music to listen to. (And beyond simply listening, there are whole subcultures to become immersed in.) Since everyone can enjoy music in principle, music includes everyone. The inclusivity of music consumption as the expression of individuality recapitulates society’s basic commitment to valuing every individual's goals equally.

1 - yes, I feel we are on the same frequency here, this is what I was implying when I said "to understand that such autonomy is strictly under the bracket of a particularly vile system (modern caps)"

2 - This is a fascinating observation, the idea that music is the most socially engaging, group affording, almost politically aligning form of innocuous modern product. In that it is - a) a consumable. And b) an utterly autonomous choice stemming from the ideal of freedom of the individual BUT c) intrinsically tied to socio-political vectors, geographies and histories (though diluted compared to traditional deployments of music granted - see metaphysics rant).

mistersloane
12-08-2012, 12:35 AM
For me the most interesting part of the opening ceremony was its producer, who used to work at the ICA and was responsible for putting on radical performances by Franko B, Ron Athey and really quite extreme work at the time, and now. Because of this I just thought it was what they thought they could get away with really, in context, which I think says more about the UK than any of the actual content. The getting away with it. That just seemed to sum it all up for me.

Mr. Tea
12-08-2012, 07:28 AM
It struck me the other day that it would have been pretty cool if Bill Drummond had been in charge...

Mister S, does the ICA in particular have a real tradition of transgressive performances, then? Was the director you're talking about in charge when COUM/TG did their PROSTITUTION show?

you
12-08-2012, 11:46 AM
utter bullshit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19226099

why does rowing get so much? I know Henley, Sonning and Caversham Warren all have Lottery funded rowing stations for the private school kids already!?!?!!? I would've thought that last place to receive lottery funding would be an area where you can't get a family house for under half a mil!?!?! Was there even a state school rower in the GB team?

paolo
12-08-2012, 12:20 PM
Mo Farah getting the 5000m last night was absolutely fantastic, but it seems most people are still a bit negative about immigrants :(


On the other hand, after being reminded of the success of minority ethnic Britons such as the Somali-born 10,000m champion, Mo Farah, voters remain inclined to doubt that most newcomers do anything positive for Britain.

By a narrow 53%-47% margin, the survey finds agreement for the suggestion that "More often than not immigrants … do not bring anything positive, and the likes of the Olympic-winning athletes are an exception".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/10/london-2012-team-gb-success-feelgood-factor?INTCMP=SRCH

you
12-08-2012, 12:29 PM
license payers click: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00smkqn/London_The_Modern_Babylon/

mistersloane
12-08-2012, 02:42 PM
It struck me the other day that it would have been pretty cool if Bill Drummond had been in charge...

Mister S, does the ICA in particular have a real tradition of transgressive performances, then? Was the director you're talking about in charge when COUM/TG did their PROSTITUTION show?

Yeah from the 60s to the early 90s the ICA was kinda essential to transgressive art in the UK. The COUM show was earlier than when Catherine was there, she would have been 80s/90s.

mistersloane
12-08-2012, 02:42 PM
license payers click: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00smkqn/London_The_Modern_Babylon/

I saw this the other night with a Q&A by Temple, he was fucking brilliant at answering questions, really radical and political and funny.

IdleRich
12-08-2012, 03:09 PM
"Interesting answer though, you. I suppose that I might disagree in one respect: I don't think that it's impossible to represent some of the essential characteristics of a community of people."
Probably true but the larger and more diverse the community the harder it gets to do - likewise the shorter the time and, also worth mentioning, the more diverse the people to whom you are representing it the more you have to go for simpler and broader brushstrokes. So I'd say with a country of sixty million people, with many diverse subgroups and only a couple of hours (or whatever it was) to represent them to the whole world, well some things are gonna fall down the cracks and the things which are chosen as part of the demo are going to be simplistically rendered so that as many viewers as possible can understand them. The situation isn't ideal basically.

rubberdingyrapids
12-08-2012, 11:15 PM
closing ceremony nowhere near as good as the opening. just another boring big pop concert. should have been something like an old fashioned royal variety show or an old music hall revue. with ken dodd. the bhangra segment in always look on the bright side of life also another tragic multicultural-pride fail. though oddly i find i do like muse.

still annoyed at spending my evening watching it though.

Sectionfive
12-08-2012, 11:32 PM
Really thought Goldie would make appearance.

Seems all the music was EMI

rubberdingyrapids
12-08-2012, 11:40 PM
the brazilian segment was better than all the previous evening (nothing good can come of a ceremony with ed sheeran in it). while i have enjoyed the joyousness of the past 2 weeks i am glad the olympics is over now so i can now get back to old fashioned british moaning.

i had hoped bruza would do get me.

also genuinely irritated that after the bowie slide show he wasnt there to perform. not that i blame him obv.

Gregor XIII
12-08-2012, 11:42 PM
They should have brought Gilberto Gil to sing Aquele Abraco, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCB6wQ1R0WA

But Pelé was cool as well.

crackerjack
13-08-2012, 02:50 PM
Well last night was very, very shit, which must have delighted the Dissensus grumps.

This is the only good thing to come out of it.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/45-year-old-salesman-apologises-for-closing-ceremony-2012081337959

Patrick Swayze
13-08-2012, 02:52 PM
i had hoped bruza would do get me.

lol

his verse on this would have been more appropriate


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUH7EXZZbTQ

baboon2004
13-08-2012, 03:56 PM
I thought the basketball was probably the best of all the sports I saw. USA-Australia in particular was spectacularly good.

The athletics seemed to divide into world-class events and very mediocre ones where performance was down on 20 years ago (men's long jump, pole vault etc). Yohan Blake's incredible turn for the third relay leg was the best bit.

Rowing, horseriding, water polo etc were mindbogglingly boring. Synchronised swimming was grippingly sinister.


Well last night was very, very shit, which must have delighted the Dissensus grumps.


Not sure what logic you're following here tbh. Why would anyone be happy that more money was spunked away, since that was one of the major valid criticisms levelled at the Olympics in the first place...?

crackerjack
13-08-2012, 04:10 PM
Not sure what logic you're following here tbh. Why would anyone be happy that more money was spunked away, since that was one of the major valid criticisms levelled at the Olympics in the first place...?

Cos people like having their prejudices confirmed and this place has a prejudice against almost anything that smacks of mainstream entertainment, particularly if it has a vaguely patriotic or nationalist bent. Has this really escaped your attention?

And it wasn't more money, it was the same money announced some time ago.

you
13-08-2012, 06:01 PM
Cos people like having their prejudices confirmed and this place has a prejudice against almost anything that smacks of mainstream entertainment, particularly if it has a vaguely patriotic or nationalist bent. Has this really escaped your attention?

And it wasn't more money, it was the same money announced some time ago.

I think the commentary on the beeb actually announced (referring to the rose tinted, nostalgic mainstream collective): "could we afford it? Probably not."

Also - the IOC pretty much forced us to spend more than we initially budgeted for on security. I'd've thought the military advisors and strategists cooped up beside the Thames would know a thing or three about how to defend their own capital city - but no - I guess some bloke from belgium and his european mates from a base in switzerland would have far better ideas...... namely, like, uh, spend mo, yeah!?

Crackerjack - do you particularly enjoy overtly patriotic/nationalist mainstream entertainment, because of its patriotism?

I think I'm pretty patriotic to curse the IOC and the bods that brought the Olympics here, rather than a Chinook stalking the Thames air I'd rather the closed libraries were opened again, rather than an Olympic Park being built I'd rather social housing in the Capital could afford other options than shipping people out to towns north of Birmingham and over a hundred miles from their family...... now call my cynical but...

Mr. Tea
13-08-2012, 07:01 PM
Without wishing to speak for cj...



Crackerjack - do you particularly enjoy overtly patriotic/nationalist mainstream entertainment, because of its patriotism?


I'm not sure it's a case of enjoying something because it is patriotic, but rather, of not deliberately not enjoying it just because it is patriotic. There's a big difference there.

Edit: You, I'm sure there isn't a single regular contributor here who doesn't agree that the money - even just some of it - could have been much better spent on any number of other things instead.

baboon2004
13-08-2012, 10:36 PM
Cos people like having their prejudices confirmed and this place has a prejudice against almost anything that smacks of mainstream entertainment, particularly if it has a vaguely patriotic or nationalist bent. Has this really escaped your attention?


Re mainstream entertainment, that has escaped my attention for the reason that it's not true. There is a great deal of mainstream entertainment discussed on these pages, as well you know.

Re patriotic/nationalist entertainment, you have a point*, although complaining about prejudice whilst extolling the virtues of nationalist entertainment does seem a bit daft, seeing as the whole concept of nation is based upon exclusion and prejudice.

* But personally I'm glad to be on a forum where a significant number of people view nationalism and patriotism with suspicion.

baboon2004
13-08-2012, 10:41 PM
I'm not sure it's a case of enjoying something because it is patriotic, but rather, of not deliberately not enjoying it just because it is patriotic. There's a big difference there.


This is in isolation a fair point, but the nationalist hysteria of the last few weeks (and not just in the UK, of course) has been scarily mental. There's a big difference also between mild nationalism of the kind that you'd see at any 'normal' sporting event, and the frothing insanity/lack of any alternative viewpoint that the press and media have subjected us to over the past few weeks.

I still have no idea why I'm meant to be 'proud' to be British, especially in its current state. Sure, sing a national anthem (though it would help if it wasn't obsequious and shit, which lets England down every time; can't the UK just sing a version of the Welsh one?), it's as good a way as any for dividing people up into teams for this kind of thing, but leave it at that.

you
13-08-2012, 11:11 PM
I think the etymology of the word patriot is interesting:

1590s, "compatriot," from M.Fr. patriote (15c.), from L.L. patriota "fellow-countryman" (6c.), from Gk. patriotes "fellow countryman," from patrios "of one's fathers," patris "fatherland," from pater (gen. patros) "father," with -otes, suffix expressing state or condition.

The Games and The Jubilee were along way from celebrating fellow countrymen. There was this in pockets admittedly in some of the short films etc, but for the most part it was about celebrating, or striving to be part of, something that is innately otherly and outside - being british. On the one hand we have swathes of people willing a lone runner over the line in a most divisionistic fashion, (the chinese are good at, the jamaicans are good at, britain has hasn't it etc etc) - we have the singularity of colours, codes, uniforms and goals, quite militaristic, on the other hand we have this odd celebration of inclusion, lack of boarders, and acceptance. Sport, aggression, and militaristic public displays go together quite well - but the juxtaposition with the modern ideals we celebrate is a slightly less comfortable formation.

Team sports in particular are great at highlighting this vaguely tribal hang-over awaking in post modern arenas (we can leave aside the obvious comparisons to gladiatorial regressions of brute force and physical dominance, too easy) - recall the spain Vs france basketball match; not exactly a parade of modern european values as an emergence of ever present tribal, in/out groups aggression. I feel these emotions and whims are at the heart of some sports - is sport the petridish that contains this culture, a controlled blaze? Is it this aspect - when tied to such Nationalistic, and personally affecting economic/geographic implications that is difficult for some to accept - or approve?

Mr. Tea
13-08-2012, 11:55 PM
I don't think it's 'nationalistic' to support athletes who are representing your county during an event like this. It's patriotic, sure, but that's not the same thing. Patriotism, in the context of sporting events, means supporting your country's team because they are the team that represents your country - it's pretty much tautological, but I don't think that's a problem. It is such a terrible thing for British people to support British athletes when people from all the other countries involved are supporting their own teams? And has there ever been an Olympics in which the host country's government and establishment hasn't ostentatiously supported the home team?

Nationalism, on the other hand, is a xenophobic belief that one's country is objectively better than any other country. In the context of sport, that would lead someone to support their country's athletes because they see it as a fulfilment of national destiny or demonstration of inherent superiority over other countries. It's definitely something different from mere patriotism and is obviously far more sinister.

It's like the difference between loving your mum because duh, she's your mum, of course you love her - and believing she is objectively the best mum in the world and demonstrably superior to everyone else's mum.

mistersloane
14-08-2012, 12:16 AM
It's like the difference between loving your mum because

Sorry. It's a compulsion.

Mr. Tea
14-08-2012, 12:46 AM
Sorry. It's a compulsion.

:D

Yeah yeah, I know. Even as I was writing it, I could feel it coming...just like your mum.

baboon2004
14-08-2012, 10:50 AM
I don't think it's 'nationalistic' to support athletes who are representing your county during an event like this. It's patriotic, sure, but that's not the same thing. Patriotism, in the context of sporting events, means supporting your country's team because they are the team that represents your country - it's pretty much tautological, but I don't think that's a problem. It is such a terrible thing for British people to support British athletes when people from all the other countries involved are supporting their own teams? And has there ever been an Olympics in which the host country's government and establishment hasn't ostentatiously supported the home team?


The problem is the disconnect between the self-congratulatory bullshit (patriotic, nationalist, whatever you want to call it) about what Britain is, and the reality. Patriotism would be fine if it were merely supporting a sports team, but during the Olympics it blatantly morphed into something much more hysterical (same as happened during the wretched Jubilee weekend), where you hesitated to say anything negative for fear of being labelled a 'killjoy' or worse. And the one-eyed nature of the media coverage was frightening. Randomly from the Guardian today:

'Just over a fortnight later, London's Games ended bathed in sunshine as the country giddily rose to acclaim a host of new sporting heroes amid hopes that it would lead to a new sense of ourselves and — in the words of a Locog slogan that once seemed cloying but now feels appropriate — "inspire a generation".'

That's mad for a supposedly non-tabloid newspaper. 'A new sense of ourselves'? Ffs.

And I think Britain DOES trade on the concept that it's inherently superior to other countries in certain ways. The illusion that it's a post-race country, for example, as Luka commented in another thread on in the way Brits compare themselves favourably to those wretchedly racist Australians, while not seeing what's under their own noses.

Slothrop
14-08-2012, 11:07 AM
And the one-eyed nature of the media coverage was frightening.
Agree with that, although I think that's less to do with some sinister nationalist programme and more to do with business - the more you hype the olympics as being some vastly profound and life-changing event, the more people will buy your paper to read about the latest developments in the water polo. It's like sticking fruity girls on the front cover on A-level results day.

Having said that, I was annoyed shitless by the efforts to turn it into some national team thing rather than being about the individuals - I mean, I like to know how the brits are doing and probably care more if someone british is doing well in the mixed doubles roller-hockey than if it's someone from somewhere else, but the focus on WHERE WE ARE IN THE MEDALS TABLE and ANOTHER GOLD FOR TEAM GB to the exclusion of anything else was really bloody irritating. Again, it probably reflects what the public want to hear more than anything else, though.

And while I'm on a moaning tip, how many different people in the last couple of weeks have been described as "Britain's greatest ever olympian"?

baboon2004
14-08-2012, 11:08 AM
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/athletics/im-a-legend-says-usain-bolt-no-youre-not-says-ioc-chairman-jacques-rogge-8031962.html#access_token=AAADWQ6323IoBAIWCBWWEE6Z AMrCH6scV4iXkZBc28SI8hMgzXfwzknt8hpNAppmCeg5JLlEK6 uOfzrnZBDHOGl0tnpbyMz5Pl22uSIJrdqZAuNTP8tVK&expires_in=6975

This is pretty funny. Bolt is amazingly talented, but on the other hand such a self-aggrandising bell-end. What he said to Carl Lewis was just unnecessary and stupid - of course Lewis is gonna be obsessed with drug tests.

baboon2004
14-08-2012, 11:24 AM
Agree with that, although I think that's less to do with some sinister nationalist programme and more to do with business - the more you hype the olympics as being some vastly profound and life-changing event, the more people will buy your paper to read about the latest developments in the water polo. It's like sticking fruity girls on the front cover on A-level results day.

Having said that, I was annoyed shitless by the efforts to turn it into some national team thing rather than being about the individuals - I mean, I like to know how the brits are doing and probably care more if someone british is doing well in the mixed doubles roller-hockey than if it's someone from somewhere else, but the focus on WHERE WE ARE IN THE MEDALS TABLE and ANOTHER GOLD FOR TEAM GB to the exclusion of anything else was really bloody irritating. Again, it probably reflects what the public want to hear more than anything else, though.

And while I'm on a moaning tip, how many different people in the last couple of weeks have been described as "Britain's greatest ever olympian"?

Yep, definitely agree, the nationalism is just a business strategy, as it is for Cameron and co. What annoys me is that everyone then buys it.

I was in France for a week and it was probably just as bad there, if I could've understood all of what the commentators were saying. Only sports with French competitors were shown, by and large. Kind of supports the view that few people will have lasting interests in any of the minority sports, once shorn of the 'go Team GB/allez (?) Club France!!' angle. I certainly won't be tuning in for the 2013 handball world championships.

I was alarmed to hear Coe describe Mohamed Farah as Britain's best ever runner - seems even his ego knows some bounds.

craner
14-08-2012, 11:28 AM
The athletics was good. Alright, so maybe nobody jumps as far as Carl Lewis and Mike Powell did in 1991, but then the American women's 4 x 100m team broke a record that stood since 1985.

craner
14-08-2012, 11:32 AM
Track and field is a very different thing (or place) now than it was in 2007.

IdleRich
14-08-2012, 11:34 AM
Aren't there serious questions over Carl Lewis and his (alleged) drug use?

craner
14-08-2012, 11:44 AM
Yes, that's the joke. In fact, if you watch the BBC4 documentary about the Seoul race, there's evidence on the screen. In one section, you have somebody explaining the physical effect human growth hormone abuse had on the sport and its athletes, including overgrown and elongating jaw-lines. A lot of HGH-using athletes had to have metal braces wired onto their teeth to keep them in place. Cut to: Carl Lewis on Wogan, complaining about rampant drug-use in his sport, with a big visible metal brace wrapped across his dentures, shining forth. I mean there's other stuff, too, but that struck me recently. It was pretty much across the board in the mid-to-late 80s, but nobody was quite as hypocritical and chancy (and lucky) as Lewis, who kept all his prize money and whose times and lengths are still on the record.

craner
14-08-2012, 11:48 AM
I grew up watching Carl Lewis, though, so I don't hate him or anything. He's no better or worse than, say, Linford.

IdleRich
14-08-2012, 11:55 AM
Also this


In 2003, Dr. Wade Exum, the United States Olympic Committee's director of drug control administration from 1991 to 2000, gave copies of documents to Sports Illustrated which revealed that some 100 American athletes who failed drug tests and should have been prevented from competing in the Olympics were nevertheless cleared to compete. Among those athletes was Lewis.
It was revealed that Lewis tested positive three times before the 1988 Olympics for pseudoephedrine, ephedrine, and phenylpropanolamine, banned stimulants and bronchodilators also found in cold medication, and had been banned from the Seoul Olympics and from competition for six months. The USOC accepted his claim of inadvertent use and overturned the decision. Fellow Santa Monica Track Club teammates Joe DeLoach and Floyd Heard were also found to have the same banned stimulants in their systems, and were cleared to compete for the same reason.
The positive results occurred at the Olympic Trials in July 1988 where athletes were required to declare on the drug-testing forms "over-the-counter medication, prescription drugs and any other substances you have taken by mouth, injection or by suppository."
That must have been what my friend was talking about with a covered up test. So, there is no debate, he did fail a test for a banned stimulant which was covered up by the US cos they accepted his argument that it had been taken accidentally? Three times.

craner
14-08-2012, 12:13 PM
There's all sorts of crazy, sick stuff with doping -- and mundane things, like simple painkillers and stimulants. Kelli White was taking THG and having steroid injections in her stomach, quite nast and extreme doping regimes, but she actually tested positive after the 2003 world championships for Modafinil -- which is basically like taking Pro Plus or something.

craner
14-08-2012, 12:15 PM
I've been meaning to write something about BALCO for years (just for fun) and I might do it this week.