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Mr. Tea
24-01-2012, 05:39 PM
So who's heard of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript)? It could almost have been created specifically to puzzle and delight Wikipedia addicts six hundred years after it was written. Maybe it was. Anyway, for those who don't know it's a largeish manuscript created somewhere in Europe in the 15th century (both the vellum and the inks have been reliably dated) and appears to be some sort of herbal or encyclopedia of natural history. Thing is, it's written in a 'script' that resembles no known language and has defeated the efforts of many expert cryptographers to decypher it. It also contains drawings of plants that resemble no known species. Astronomical diagrams include constellations that don't exist, and some drawings have been interpreted as showing galaxies, which weren't discovered until the advent of powerful telescopes centuries later (although this is disputed).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Voynich_manuscript_bathtub2_example_78r_cropped.jp g/542px-Voynich_manuscript_bathtub2_example_78r_cropped.jp g

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/68r.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Voynich_Manuscript_%28158%29.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Voynich_manuscript_excerpt.svg

Some people think the book encodes genuine knowledge, or at least information, encrypted in such a clever way that it simply hasn't been decyphered yet. Others think it's a hoax, perhaps by an alchemist and mate of John Dee's called Edward Kelley, who sold the book to Holy Roman Emperor Rudolph II, although this happened over a hundred years after the date given by radiocarbon analysis. Other suspected authors include Francis Bacon. Another hypothesis is that it's a written equivalent to glossolalia, or 'speaking in tongues', in other words it meant something to the person who created it but is necessarily meaningless to anyone else, being an artefact of mental illness.

Pretty fucking cool, though.

Leo
24-01-2012, 07:13 PM
does this have anything to do with witch house?

but seriously...yeah, crazy shit.

muser
24-01-2012, 07:46 PM
its like something out of buffy the vampire slayer

muser
24-01-2012, 07:49 PM
it also sounds exactly like the later Codex Seraphinianus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Seraphinianus) I found out about on here, I've got a pdf of it on my computer somewhere.

Mr. Tea
24-01-2012, 07:53 PM
does this have anything to do with witch house?


Ha , I dunno - have a look on 'you''s blog, he's yer man for that side of things.

Also cool is the Codex Seraphinianus (http://www.amazon.co.uk/CODEX-SERAPHINIANUS-Luigi-Serafini/dp/8817013897/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327438055&sr=8-1), which I think might be inspired by the Manuscript. It's a sort of visual encyclopedia of an imaginary world, complete with meaningless (OR IS IT???) made-up writing. By an Italian architect in the '70s. Wicked stuff.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KRfieah-_Fo/TUtQKZimwPI/AAAAAAAAAJA/8kMmBRSkhPw/s1600/codex-seraphinianus2.jpeg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hMwk9hBzuzE/TI6ePythDjI/AAAAAAAAAEI/LAWdWPIpPjg/s1600/codex_seraphinianus.jpg

http://theendofbeing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/codex2.jpg

http://www.tomorrowland.org/photos/uncategorized/codex.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fGmX-1oaWN4/S_aBZJhTyCI/AAAAAAAACQI/jnejXx-ZcDQ/s1600/codex1.jpg

Escher meets Bosch, anyone?

Mr. Tea
24-01-2012, 07:56 PM
it also sounds exactly like the later Codex Seraphinianus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Seraphinianus) I found out about on here, I've got a pdf of it on my computer somewhere.

Beaten to it while C/Ping the image URLs. :) Yeah, I heard about that book from the Wiki article on the Manuscript, which I in turn heard about from xkcd.com. I'd love to have a look at the complete PDF if you can host it somewhere that won't get you thrown in jail.

dd528
24-01-2012, 08:02 PM
Beaten to it while C/Ping the image URLs. :) Yeah, I heard about that book from the Wiki article on the Manuscript, which I in turn heard about from xkcd.com. I'd love to have a look at the complete PDF if you can host it somewhere that won't get you thrown in jail.


The Code Seraphinianus used to be available on the Internet Archive here (http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=Codex%20Seraphinianus), but the file doesn't seem to be hosted on the server anymore. Maybe submit an error report and it might get reposted?

dd528
24-01-2012, 08:04 PM
Really interesting article about it in The Believer magazine here (http://www.believermag.com/issues/200705/?read=article_taylor), too.

muser
24-01-2012, 08:11 PM
you can try here (http://rapidshare.com/files/108681620/Luigi_Serafini_-_Codex_Seraphinianus.pdf), not uploaded by myself of course just found it. If I am wealthy at any point I'd love to have a real copy to put in the toilet so people can look at it whilst they wallow in their own stench

computer_rock
24-01-2012, 09:00 PM
i'm guessing jorge luis borges somehow knew about this but it seems unlikely....

slowtrain
25-01-2012, 04:52 AM
Yes I have encountered this on the internet before.

IT is very cool.

The alchemical stuff and the pics of naked ladies are really sweet.

IdleRich
25-01-2012, 08:01 AM
That's completely amazing - never heard of it at all - thanks Ollie.

you
25-01-2012, 06:06 PM
best thread of 2012, sick cthulhu finds there tea....

Mr. Tea
25-01-2012, 06:21 PM
best thread of 2012, sick cthulhu finds there tea....

I know C-boy tends to crop up pretty much everywhere on the internet where people are interested in weird or unexplained things, but there is something Lovecraftian about both the Manuscript and the Codex, I think. Not just the obvious link to HPL's fetish for ancient books of forbidden knowledge, blah blah, but in the Codex's oeneiric world of paradox and anti-reality...reminds me of the 'Dreamlands' cycle rather than the outright cosmic horror of the Cthulhu mythos proper, if anyone here gets me.

Glad people are digging it!

you
25-01-2012, 06:52 PM
in true muso-jorno fashion with the ZxY analogies it's like cyclonopediaXpaul nobel

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2009/9/14/1252933205333/Paul-Noble-Ye-Olde-Ruin-d-001.jpg

HMGovt
30-01-2012, 09:48 PM
Had heard of the Voynich manuscript before, but never heard of the Codex. Wish I'd seen that when I was 8, would have fired up the imagination brilliantly and forever. So my 3.5 year old is going to receive it as a birthday present one year. Only Dissensus could bring this to light.

The weird 7 foot high UFOam (http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?4335-Where-have-the-UFOs-gone&p=277438#post277438) in the other thread resembles something out of the Codex.

Mr. Tea
31-01-2012, 09:17 AM
Had heard of the Voynich manuscript before, but never heard of the Codex. Wish I'd seen that when I was 8, would have fired up the imagination brilliantly and forever. So my 3.5 year old is going to receive it as a birthday present one year. Only Dissensus could bring this to light.


Brilliant! It would make such a good present for a kid, I reckon.

Another great book to just pore over for hours is the Ultimate Alphabet. I never had this as a kid but a mate of mine has a copy - amazingly dense, beautifully rendered paintings, each one of loads of things all starting with the same letter. And each page has a number associated with it, which is the number of things starting with that letter, so you can count how many things you've spotted and see how many you still have left to get. It's mesmerising.

http://www.codex99.com/illustration/images/wilks_s_lg.jpg

http://www.classicartpaintings.com/d/80043-2/MikeWilks-TheUltimateAlphabet-I_je.jpg

http://appvader.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/A_large1.png

slowtrain
31-01-2012, 09:11 PM
Wow, that dinosaur that stabbed others in the neck with its thumbs!

woops
04-02-2012, 04:35 PM
5* thread

woops
04-02-2012, 04:36 PM
Wow, that dinosaur that stabbed others in the neck with its thumbs!

An iguanadon right?

slowtrain
04-02-2012, 07:52 PM
An iguanadon right?

Thats the one.

I'm fairly sure that that was one of those early paleontology fuck ups and it never had those thumbs/they were the horns of some other beast or something, but still pretty cool.

woops
05-02-2012, 12:44 AM
you're right, the 'thumbs' were actually on top of it's reptilian nose, but the boffins at the Natural History Museum were like ???

Mr. Tea
05-02-2012, 08:53 AM
An iguanadon right?

And an iguana as well! Also ink caps.

In a somewhat different vein, the Where's Wally? books are brilliant too. Though I'm sure that goes without saying.

luka
05-02-2012, 09:22 AM
http://www.lordkilgore.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/prince-valiant-dragon.jpg

slowtrain
05-02-2012, 08:35 PM
And an iguana as well! Also ink caps.

In a somewhat different vein, the Where's Wally? books are brilliant too. Though I'm sure that goes without saying.

And the I Spy books.

I still remember feeling the Treasure Hunt had this terribly sad and empty atmosphere even as a kid.

http://www.walterwick.com/books_pics/ispy_pics/beach_spread.jpg

IdleRich
07-02-2012, 09:14 AM
Another (almost) untranslatable document

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohonc_Codex

These things are brilliant. I love the way that the original (the Voynich one) is associated with Roger Bacon and John Dee - is it just me or is John Dee (supposedly) at the root of every weird thing that happened in the middle ages?

IdleRich
07-02-2012, 09:17 AM
"In a somewhat different vein, the Where's Wally? books are brilliant too. Though I'm sure that goes without saying."
Didn't the Where's Wally guy copy it totally off this though?

http://everydayat8pm.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Wheres-Massive-Erect-Penis.jpg

IdleRich
07-02-2012, 09:53 AM
Actually I think Wally/Waldo was nicked off that Japanese guy who did Anno's Journey and the rest of the series. He travelled through Europe and you had to find him on each page which had loads of other interesting stuff such as characters from fairy tales etc

http://chawedrosin.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/annos-journey-5.jpg

woops
07-02-2012, 11:31 AM
wow, the script from this Rohonc Codex is really cool
http://www.ecriture-art.com/images/p_rohonczi1.jpg

slowtrain
08-02-2012, 02:36 AM
Another (almost) untranslatable document

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohonc_Codex

These things are brilliant. I love the way that the original (the Voynich one) is associated with Roger Bacon and John Dee - is it just me or is John Dee (supposedly) at the root of every weird thing that happened in the middle ages?

There is that great bit in Foucaults Pendulum, where this dude (can't remember his name? Kelley?) is writing works for Shakespeare, who is writing works for Bacon, who is writing works for Dee, who is just sort of overlording the whole thing.

IdleRich
08-02-2012, 07:32 AM
"There is that great bit in Foucaults Pendulum, where this dude (can't remember his name? Kelley?) is writing works for Shakespeare, who is writing works for Bacon, who is writing works for Dee, who is just sort of overlording the whole thing."
It would be Kelley who was an associate of John Dee - but that's Francis Bacon who is sometimes believed to have written Shakespeare's stuff - the rumours about the Voynich Manuscript (at least according to the wiki article) attribute it to Roger Bacon who lived a couple of hundred years earlier.
John Dee and Kelley and Francis Bacon were sixteenth/seventeenth century - it seems that the manuscript was created before that - John Dee's name onlhy apppears in the story as someone who might have owned it at one point after (Roger) Bacon wrote it and sold it into Europe. More likely he just turns up cos it makes a good story better.

slowtrain
08-02-2012, 08:12 PM
It would be Kelley who was an associate of John Dee - but that's Francis Bacon who is sometimes believed to have written Shakespeare's stuff - the rumours about the Voynich Manuscript (at least according to the wiki article) attribute it to Roger Bacon who lived a couple of hundred years earlier.
John Dee and Kelley and Francis Bacon were sixteenth/seventeenth century - it seems that the manuscript was created before that - John Dee's name onlhy apppears in the story as someone who might have owned it at one point after (Roger) Bacon wrote it and sold it into Europe. More likely he just turns up cos it makes a good story better.

Oh yeah, I was just talking about Dee always crops up around these things.

woops
09-02-2012, 10:32 AM
http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?12246-Where-can-I-find-shoes-Lisk&p=277386#post277386

Mr. Tea
17-02-2012, 12:31 PM
Oh yeah, I was just talking about Dee always crops up around these things.

Dee is a fascinating character and probably deserves his own thread.

I was talking to my girlfriend about him the other day and she accidentally called him Jack Dee by mistake. We had fun imagining a sketch featuring Jack Dee as John Dee: The Most Sarcastic Alchemist In The World.

Mr. Tea
17-01-2014, 09:46 AM
Voynich is not a hoax, contains real information, according to new analysis. (http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/linguistics/science-voynich-manuscript-message-01195.html)


“In our analysis, we used an information-theoretical measure that quantifies the amount of information that the distribution of words bears about the sections where they appear in the text. Words that are uniformly scattered contribute little or no information, since their distribution cannot tag any specific section of the text. On the contrary, words that appear only in certain contextual domains contribute much information, because their distribution identifies those specific sections,” Dr Montemurro and Dr Zanette wrote in a paper published in the open-access journal PLoS ONE.

“The semantic networks we obtained clearly show that related words tend to share structure similarities. This also happens to a certain degree in real languages,” Dr Montemurro explained. “It unlikely that these features were simply ‘incorporated’ into the text to make a hoax more realistic, as most of the required academic knowledge of these structures did not exist at the time the Voynich manuscript was created.”

Pretty cool!

IdleRich
18-01-2014, 10:02 AM
It does seem to be way more sophisticated than it would have needed to be (or even could have been) if it was a hoax.

Mr. Tea
28-01-2014, 04:38 PM
OK, permit an ego-spam here: I've put together some thoughts I've had about the Voynich manuscript and the joy of trolling. (http://dointhelambethwarp.wordpress.com/2014/01/17/the-voynich-manuscript-and-the-joy-of-trolling/)

http://dointhelambethwarp.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/ustino-necronomicon-2.jpg

http://dointhelambethwarp.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/cakeqgg.jpg

http://dointhelambethwarp.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/troll_voynich.png

(I know a few of you have seen this on FB but there's a lot more of it now). Would be interested in your thoughts.

griftert
09-02-2014, 01:02 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/feb/07/new-clue-voynich-manuscript-mystery

interesting though unlikely sounding thesis advanced here.

Mr. Tea
18-02-2014, 11:02 AM
So I bought a copy of the Codex Seraphinianus the other day. The new edition is only 40-odd quid on Amazon. Well mint.

http://www.cvltnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/codex03.jpg

sufi
22-02-2014, 12:08 AM
o wow
http://www.medievalists.net/2014/02/20/voynich-manuscript-partially-decoded-text-hoax-scholar-finds/

Mr. Tea
22-02-2014, 07:58 PM
Wow indeed, nice find Sufi!

Mr. Tea
03-07-2016, 10:06 PM
Check this, yo. http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/pc/1000000000000066600000000000001.html