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IdleRich
27-06-2012, 10:53 AM
I don't really think that this would happen or care if it does but I'm interested in the wider implications for tax havens. Is the UK government (or US for that matter) really clamping down now? What does the average citizen of Jersey or another tax haven think of the fact that his/her whole country is run for the benefit of people and companies that don't even live there? Do they feel that there is a net benefit for them in being a tax haven? If not how does it stay one?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/26/jersey-threatens-independence-tax-backlash

Dusty
27-06-2012, 01:57 PM
The principle of the free market is that it [legal tax avoidance] is available to all – even if some of them can't reach it. You could argue exactly the same thing from a job perspective by dint of the fact someone didn't have the right education. Ultimately the politics of envy creeps in to it

Taken from that article, this seems like flawed thinking to me. So you could take advantage of your local environment and government - but not pay the taxes that allow that environment to function? I don't think that falls under the umbrella of a 'free market'.

e/y
27-06-2012, 02:17 PM
drown the free market in a var of piss.

Patrick Swayze
27-06-2012, 02:39 PM
Taken from that article, this seems like flawed thinking to me. So you could take advantage of your local environment and government - but not pay the taxes that allow that environment to function? I don't think that falls under the umbrella of a 'free market'.

I imagine most corporations would be delighted if they were told they could operate free of government control and taxation but simply had to pay for the upkeep of the environment they 'use' (though perhaps not the foreign ones they abuse). I'm sure they'd gladly come together with other organisations in the area to provide their own security, waste management etc etc seeing as they view the public sector as bloated, inefficient and essentially decadent.

isn't that what the big society's all about...

Mr. Tea
27-06-2012, 02:42 PM
Taken from that article, this seems like flawed thinking to me. So you could take advantage of your local environment and government - but not pay the taxes that allow that environment to function? I don't think that falls under the umbrella of a 'free market'.

Yeah, surely the ideal of the free market is that everyone pays as little tax as possible and pays for whatever they need out of their own pocket - not that some people pay no tax and then enjoy the amenities paid for by other people's tax. That would make you no better than one of those awful benefit cheats that are wholly responsible for the state of the economy, right?

Sectionfive
27-06-2012, 05:08 PM
Non existent regulation and ultra low corporation tax has cross party support among the mainstream here, one of the biggest sacred cows. What is hailed as innovation is effectively Dublin inserting itself into the web with Caymans and elsewhere. Crucially as part of the chain within and giving access to the Eurozone. The Financial Services centre here was dubbed the 'Wild West of European Finance' by the NYT in 2005. There is / was a reputation that you could do business quicker in Ireland. That is a euphemism for not asking questions and offering better discretion then even the Swiss!

The regulator at least pretended they were overseeing Irish banks but the financial centre was outside his remit as far as he and those operating within it are concerned. Though it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. It's the back office of the City and every European bank, insurance firm etc had or still has subsidiary, which could be a post box or an shared office with two staff if you're lucky. The details are hammered out in London or Frankfurt then a handful of bankers will fly to Dublin to complete the transaction. The shady stuff happens here under Irish jurisdiction and off the books back home. This is the kind of thing that makes responsible German finger wagging harder to swallow. Frankfurt is sore after being forced to rescue an German bank operating here in 2008. (Depfa)

There are less then 30,000 people working in Financial services here but thousands of shell companies and literally trillions in capital washing in and out. Relatively untaxed here, wherever it came from and wherever it's going.

The ultra low corporation tax means that every company you could think off have their European HQ all on the back of minimising tax and the famous '‘Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/28/business/Double-Irish-With-A-Dutch-Sandwich.html)". The benefit for us we're told is jobs, of around 100,000. Though this has stayed at this level for the past twenty.

http://dublinopinion.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/forfas-1990-2008-fdi-employment.JPG

The other benefit is politicians quite enjoy attending the opening of Facebook, google, Intel etc and every pharmaceutical going. Outsourcing job creation fits short-termism like a glove and they can point to Paypal or Pfizer as evidence of their success rather then the country facilitating global tax evasion. This perceived prestige lead Sarkozy to lose the rag ever six months even though France's effective corporate tax rate is closer to 14% compared to our statutory 12.5

The silence is deafening from all when these multinationals up sticks and take their jobs and still billions in profit off to the far east. But the show goes on

baboon2004
27-06-2012, 05:56 PM
Would a military invasion of Jersey be sporting? Operation Giveusbackourtaxyoufuckers ?

Dusty
28-06-2012, 02:04 PM
I'm sure they'd gladly come together with other organisations in the area to provide their own security, waste management etc etc seeing as they view the public sector as bloated, inefficient and essentially decadent.

All sounds a bit William Gibson to me. And also probably the future.

Mr. Tea
28-06-2012, 03:18 PM
Jersey's apparently been a choice spot to stash one's cash for over 2,000 years - "The largest hoard of Iron Age Celtic coins found anywhere in northern Europe has been discovered by two amateur metal detectorists who have been searching in the same field in Jersey for 30 years." (http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2012/jun/26/iron-age-coins-discovered-jersey)

Patrick Swayze
28-06-2012, 03:19 PM
All sounds a bit William Gibson to me. And also probably the future.

jersey's gonna get their own robocop to deal with parking fines, noise complaints and scouse hash smuggling rings.

Sectionfive
12-11-2012, 01:59 PM
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/11/09/britain-opens-inquiry-on-hsbc-over-tax-haven/



Revenue investigating more than 4,000 accounts in Jersey that belong to British clients after receiving details from a whistle-blower. The list includes a drug dealer and a man convicted of possessing more than 300 weapons at his home in the south of England, The Daily Telegraph newspaper in London reported.