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luka
02-10-2012, 08:12 AM
i been quite intrigued by the noises hes making

luka
02-10-2012, 08:25 AM
im seriously considering going into politics becasue im a natural leader. people look to me for guidance.

luka
02-10-2012, 08:26 AM
the left needs leaders not whingers.

luka
03-10-2012, 10:00 AM
no one got anything to say about this character?

baboon2004
03-10-2012, 12:22 PM
Haven't really been following the Labour conference, but he seems to have come out of it quite well. At least him and Ed Balls are developing a public profile now, because before this they had virtually none for the past two years.

Mr. Tea
03-10-2012, 06:00 PM
One of the most powerful sections of Ed Miliband's speech came when, with remarkable fluency, he declared of the government: "Have you ever seen a more incompetent, hopeless, out of touch, U-turning, pledge breaking, make it up as you go along, back-of-the-envelope, miserable shower?"

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/staggers/2012/10/railway-omnishambles-proves-milibands-point

I reckon EMili's alright. He seems to have built up a bit of momentum just lately, it'll be interesting to see if he can maintain it.

nomos
03-10-2012, 09:39 PM
He's a bit MOR

http://i49.tinypic.com/1gspdx.jpg

Sectionfive
03-10-2012, 09:45 PM
Cameron in power has really lowered peoples expectations

craner
04-10-2012, 12:16 PM
Hasn't he? And Brown.

I think by now his brother would be running rings around this lot. It's telling that Ed has to rely so heavily (and repeatedly) on his "story" (actually the story of his parents). The press is so dull-witted too, reporting his speech as if he has never mentioned his parents before and brainlessly parroting the "brilliance" of stealing the One Nation tag. It's so fucking banal and empty and asinine. At least they clobber Clegg for it.

There's a huge wasteland with an enormous gale blowing through it out there and it's called industry and manafacturing. Coal mines and steel works and ship yards to be revived. Hello? Is anybody home One Nation Not-New Not-Old Labour?

Slothrop
04-10-2012, 01:13 PM
It's so fucking banal and empty and asinine.
Everything about the reporting of British electoral politics these days is banal and empty and asinine. It's the era where "yeah but would you want to go for a pint with him" is seen as a valid criticism of a political candidate and where everything is subservient to the arbitrary construction of characters and narratives in the press. How many people before the last election would parrot that Gordon Brown was a "weak leader" without actually being able to tell you anything that he'd done that displayed weak leadership? It all just makes it easier for the press to run things, because they don't even have to come up with a one sided account of the worst bits someone's policies to shaft them any more, they just have to arbitrarily label them as "a bit creepy."

Slothrop
04-10-2012, 01:28 PM
Obs this isn't exactly news, but it never stops pissing me off...

Mr. Tea
04-10-2012, 01:46 PM
I'm sure there was a Daily Mash article on exactly this theme a couple of years back.

craner
04-10-2012, 04:18 PM
To be fair, Camilla Cavendish wrote a righteous op-ed in the Times today on the "tragic paucity of ideas" in Ed's speech, although I thought that was being kind. I can't go knocking doors for this fucker, or for Kingmaker Kinnock ginning like a gibbon.

luka
04-10-2012, 06:27 PM
ive been interested by the guardian's obesquieous cheerleading.

luka
04-10-2012, 06:29 PM
There's a huge wasteland with an enormous gale blowing through it out there and it's called industry and manafacturing. Coal mines and steel works and ship yards to be revived.

im not sure im following you? are you calling for the mines to be reopened? surely not?

Mr. Tea
04-10-2012, 08:50 PM
Britain in 2012 is surely too densely populated, too 'green' and too unused to hard physical labour to make large-scale coal mining at all feasible. Even if it could be done, wage costs and environmental and health-n-safety regulations* would make it prohibitively expensive without massive government subsidies, and then it starts to look less like an industry and more like a state-funded job creation scheme.

Maybe it would more feasible with higher-level industries like the shipyards, I dunno. Even then, I can imagine most of the commissions they'd get would be for warships...but maybe I'm being too cynical.

*which I'm not knocking at all, I mean I like living in a country where the trees aren't black and where I don't have to risk my neck on a daily basis to earn a living

craner
04-10-2012, 10:16 PM
And that's just one of my brilliant ideas.

craner
04-10-2012, 10:26 PM
Maybe I've been spending too much time in the Rhondda lately.

luka
04-10-2012, 10:27 PM
the koreans and the rest undercut british shipyards long ago. it is hard to think of ways to make money. reopening coal mines or even shipyards is obviously not the answer. its a hard question so the answer will not be obvious.

hucks
04-10-2012, 10:28 PM
ive been interested by the guardian's obesquieous cheerleading.

That's guilt for backing the Lib Dems in 2010.

craner
05-10-2012, 10:28 AM
I do know somebody who is trying to get money together to open a new seam near Aberdare and who also (at the same time) rents out rooms in his vast house in Glyneath to miners who have migrated to Wales to work. There's life in those valleys, yet.

The examples I gave were (possibly) a bit silly, but state support for industry and manafacturing beyond the vague promise of a technical baccalaureate is not risible or impossible, and shouldn't be ignored by Labour. I mean, Peter Mandelson put up a better fight for this than anybody has since. All the Tories could muster was a humiliating trade junket to China.

Mr. Tea
05-10-2012, 02:35 PM
I'd have thought a better bet would be to invest in the kind of developmental hi-tech industry that's not (yet) feasible in quite the same way in for example China because of a lack of personnel with the requisite training. I mean, it's telling that I had to leave the UK for Holland to get a worthwhile job with a big tech firm.

But so many Chinese are being educated at top American and European universities these days that this will cease to be a factor eventually.

craner
05-10-2012, 03:20 PM
What, you mean like an island Hyderabad?

craner
05-10-2012, 03:34 PM
I haven't got a clue, mind -- but there must be options other than banks, shopping, computers, tourism and state employment. I remember watching a documentary about the shipyards that made the big Cunard Liners and such, that were undercut by the Japanese -- they sank because others made better ships for cheaper prices, but also because there was no political will to save them or even the energy or ideas to compete. So they all closed and are surrounded by ageing and unemployed dockers and shipbuilders moaning about it. A lot of the problems were caused by globalisation, but also by the Thatcher administrations, but these were compounded by Blair and Brown who effectively chose to let the manafacturing base disintegrate, placing their bets on finance and technology. It didn't innovate or change, it disappeared.

There is lack of imagination and courage in think tank and policy wonk land. The most daring ideas are the most gimmicky. The most serious issues are the ones everybody is scared to talk about -- or defend. This is partly because the frames of reference are so narrow now and everything is petrified by the news cycle. There is also an endemic fatalism that feeds it.

Mr. Tea
05-10-2012, 07:17 PM
What, you mean like an island Hyderabad?

I dunno, what kind of industries do they have in Hyderabad?

luka
05-10-2012, 09:45 PM
its indias it hub

luka
05-10-2012, 09:49 PM
we have silicon roundabout.

luka
05-10-2012, 09:52 PM
fundamentally the issue is wages.

luka
05-10-2012, 09:54 PM
so you have all these people saying you lot are mollycoddled you should live like chinese wage slaves or something but that is self defeating it seems to me. a high wage economy is the only one that can support coffee shops and resturaunts and whatnot. one man that can afford 100000 coffees a day is not as valuable as a million people that can afford one coffee a day for fairly straightfoward obvious reasons.

Mr. Tea
05-10-2012, 10:24 PM
How does Germany manage? They still have lots of industry and I bet people there earn high wages. Maybe it's that they never had hardline union wreckers in the 60s/70s followed by a Thatcherite backlash, I would guess.

Mr. Tea
05-10-2012, 10:34 PM
A high-wage economy is a great thing but it requires industries that make valuable products that people, especially people in other countries, want to buy.

I think a lot of people in Britain would be surprised to know how much stuff we still manufacture and export. Less than we used to, obviously, but still a fair amount.

HMGovt
06-10-2012, 10:30 AM
Obviously, massive resources should be sent this way so that the UK can control access to space

http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01mqv45

Also a tidal barrage in the Severn Estuary, a space elevator on Diego Garcia, Thorium reactor commercialisation, a 3D-printer in every classroom, every home. Deregulation of pharmaceuticals, GM and embryology would be a winner - if we're an atheist country, fucking well live up to out by creating hideous genetic chimaeras.

HMGovt
06-10-2012, 10:35 AM
What happened in this country over the past 25 years or so is that most of the smart, energetic, talented people ended up completing their engineering, physics, maths and chemistry degrees only to be recruited by employers in the Square Mile. And we all know how that went - was there actually any net gain produced by the financial industries after the massive bailout in 2008?

So all the country's talent either went into the City to get fat, rich and right wing; or crossed the Atlantic to research and innovate over there. Meanwhile our own research and manufacturing goes into a flat spin. If the best we can do is a range of Dyson vacuum cleaners and a few luxury cars, we deserve to be fucked. Run the banks out of town so clever folk can return to doing what they do best rather than what provides te greatest short-term reward.

luka
06-10-2012, 10:01 PM
A high-wage economy is a great thing but it requires industries that make valuable products that people, especially people in other countries, want to buy.

well thats a bit simplistic but yes you have to sell something.

luka
06-10-2012, 10:03 PM
I think a lot of people in Britain would be surprised to know how much stuff we still manufacture and export. Less than we used to, obviously, but still a fair amount.

this is what robinson is space is about as im sure you know.

craner
07-10-2012, 12:55 AM
We export avant garde films. Party on!

craner
07-10-2012, 12:56 AM
Our soft porn magazines used to be the best in the world.

luka
07-10-2012, 07:21 AM
we make weapons.

Mr. Tea
07-10-2012, 10:26 PM
we make weapons.

Surprising number of planes, too. I mean civilian passenger planes. Also quite a lot of other big machinery and infrastructure type stuff. Stuff that brings in money although I suppose the %age of the population directly involved in making it probably isn't that big.