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Vic Serotonin
15-02-2013, 11:35 PM
Blackdown went all in this month, first with his 2012 roundup:

http://blackdownsoundboy.blogspot.co.nz/2013/02/blackdowns-2012-roundup.html

"This section was for me the real heart of 2012 and in truth it’s a flex I’d been long since feeling around for – check my remix of Bias & Gurley “Roll” which I did in 2010. This is because for someone who’d loved UK garage but loved it more when it became a bit darker (i.e. dubstep) it was a bit of a no-brainer that while UK funky was fun in that vibey way, people might want a darker take on it as an alternative – an alternative to both UK funky and to the dubstep that now was unlistenable – in the way that early dubstep was an alternate take on UK garage’s sonic balances. Now that neither dubstep, (ahem) post-dubstep or UK funky are providing huge returns, the darker alternative seems even more pertinent.

(Now I know all the critical arguments around this issue, indeed against this parallel path, but… I don’t care. In fact I do care, and enjoy that it’s divisive: you’re in it or you’re not. I really, really don’t buy the line that you should over-ride what your heart tells you just because someone else’s critical head tries to tell you. So I make absolutely no apologies for liking underground music with a sense of darkness and edge: it feels so unequivocally right to me in the way that tepid tech house or bait electro house remixes of Faithless sound so wrong, that everything else is pretty unimportant to me right now. This is where Dusk & I are going; this is our flex. If people want to tell me this is UK funky but worse they're missing the point of what I'm saying.)

This sound - this collection of sounds/producers/ideas - centered around 130bpm is THE most exciting space for me right now and has been all year. It’s getting ignored by large sections of the club going public – looking at the techno dominated end-of-year-charts – and yet it feels more cutting edge and has whiff of mutating danger and possibility (rather than predictability) about it. Anyway its tiny and it’s early days but Dusk and I are up to our necks in it right now, dealing with VIP versions and funneling dub after dub by a hungry new wave of producers through our Rinse FM show, many of who seem in part to hark back to the early Forward>> and Sidewinder times we lived through."

And then backed it up with the announcement of the 'This is How We Roll' comp on Keysound, which is pretty much a roll call of the up and coming producers working around 130 who have been getting aired on his Rinse show with Dusk:

http://www.factmag.com/2013/02/13/beneath-visionist-wen-rabit-and-more-feature-on-promising-keysound-recordings-comp-this-is-how-we-roll/

Tracklist:

01. Visionist, Beneath & Wen ‘New Wave’
02. Beneath ‘PVO’
03. Samrai ‘Hear Me Now’
04. Visionist ‘Dangerous’
05. Wen ‘Commotion VIP’
06. Double Helix ‘LDN VIP’
07. Epoch ‘The Steppenwolf’
08. Dusk + Blackdown ft Farrah ‘Lonely Moon (Android Heartbreak drumz remix)’
09. Fresh Paul ‘Blaster’
10. Mumdance & Logos ‘In Reverse’
11. Gremino ‘Monster VIP’
12. Rabit ‘Satelite’
13. E.m.m.a. ‘Peridot’
14. Moleskin ‘Burst’

I tried to draw attention to some of this stuff in a post on the funky thread and responses were mixed. Although Blackdown emphasizes the 'darkside funky' connection, I think it's fair to say (and the rest of his 2012 roundup certainly indicates) that there's more to it than that, and that connections are being drawn with instrumental grimey/eski stuff, slowed down/weirded out percussive dubstep, and then the synthy flavours contributed by the likes of Emma and Fresh Paul. I agree with Blackdown that this stuff offers a clear and preferable alternative to that which is embodied under the rubric of UK Bass (AKA 'post-dubstep' as conservative return to house & techno). Given that the post-intelli-whatsit thread has surely reached the terminal beach (Skrillex doing Burial), this stuff deserves its own thread, because it sure as hell doesn't belong there.

I'll start by posting a few different resources compiling journalism, key mixes, tracks, radio podcasts etc. Curious to hear other suggestions/contributions, either for and against.

Vic Serotonin
15-02-2013, 11:45 PM
Rory Gibb's latest Hypersecific column touches on the 130 thing too:

"The aesthetic - epitomised last year by people like Beneath and Visionist - is anchored at that tantalisingly (frustratingly) brief moment in around 2008 when dubstep, grime and funky were blurring together into moody, broken hybrids that kept the essence of all three parent genres intact. Dusk & Blackdown aren't bothering themselves too much with attempting to categorise quite where this music actually fits into the continuum it's derived from, aside from a shared tempo of around 130bpm or thereabouts."

http://thequietus.com/articles/11386-hyperspecific-20-electronic-music-review-levon-vincent-metasplice-bandshell

If you scroll down to the bottom he covers Emma's music, and then makes a comparison between the 2012 Keysound podcast (http://blackdownsoundboy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/rinse-fm-keysound-christmas-2012-special.html) and the Hyperdub showcase on MAH's show in '08 with Zomby, Darkstar and Ikonika. I'm with him on this, but I'd cite the Blackdown x Beneath x Wen x Visionst showcase on Rinse earlier in 2012 as well, particularly for the sheer brilliance of the 'New Wave' stitch-up:

http://blackdownsoundboy.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/rinse-august-blackdown-v-beneath-v-wen.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1xzRyCt3Ww

Vic Serotonin
15-02-2013, 11:51 PM
Key Mixes:

Grievous Angel - Pure Rollage (from the man's blog: http://blog.grievousangel.net/)

"OK. Here’s a mix of fresh, deep dub 130. Basically my tribute to Beneath. This is pure rollage. Obviously the Beneath stuff is the best dub in the world right now but there’s lots of good bits in this mix. I particularly like the blend of City Cycle and Send, and the blend of Waterfalls and the Vibe is so Right. This goes off live. The Ramadanman refix is very special, David played this out quite a bit. No-one’s got that."

Beneath – Wip – unreleased
Beneath – Lost – unreleased
Beneath – Name Droppin’ – unreleased
Cooly G – Dis Boy – Dub Organiser
Beneath – Send – No Symbols 001
Mala – City Cycle – Tectonic
Beneath – Seduction – No Symbols 002
Grievous Angel – Torn Apart – Devotional Dubz Erzulie04
Simpleton – Weh Dem Hear – Grievous Angel Remix – unreleased
Beneath – Rough – No Symbols 02
Grievous Angel – Kleer – Forefront
Rubi Dan Vs Grievous Angel – BadBoyz – Unreleased
DJ Ma1 – Waterfalls
Chrissy Murderbot – Vibe Is So Right (Atki2 Remix) – Planet Mu
Ramadanman – Blimey (Grievous Angel Refix) – Unreleased (and never coming out!)
Beneath – No Limit – Unreleased

http://www.grievousangel.net/GAMixes/Grievous_Angel_Pure_Rollage_2012.mp3

Grievous' Future Garage mix is probably also worth mentioning, particularly for the inclusion of the likes of Wen, Etch, Sully, and J-One.

J-One & Etch – Sounds – Unreleased 2012
Etch – Aquamarine – Unreleased 2012
Dem 2 – Holding – 2011
Wen – Medusa – Unreleased 2012
Wen – Swingin – Unreleased 2012
Sully – Your Love – Keysound Recordings LDN026 – 2011
Grievous Angel – FU – Forthcoming Devotional Dubz 2013
Wen – Takin’ Over – Unreleased 2012
Wen – Spark It – forthcoming Keysound 2013
Grievous Angel Vs Ashanti – Still On It Refix – Unreleased 2012
Etch – See Me On The Road – Unreleased 2012
Wen – Walk the Walk – Unreleased 2012
Naphta – Jungle Republic (Grievous Angel remix) – Unreleased 2012
Etch – Take Me – Unreleased 2012
Etch – Pulse – Unreleased 2012
Artek – And Then – Grievous Angel Remix – Unreleased 2012
Wen – Wind it Up – Unreleased 2012

http://blog.grievousangel.net/future-garage-mix-violume-10

Beneath - FACT 328

Tracklist:
Mella Dee – Oath
Hagan – The Music
Beneath – Hush
Beneath – Lost
Hagan – Tribal Steppin
Beneath – Seduction (No Symbols)
Smoove Kriminal – Occurence
Hagan – Afro Dub
Beneath – Serve
Beneath – Sum
Mellow Bee – The Hutner (Current)
Beneath – One Blings
Beneath – Still Hurts (No Symbols)
Beneath – Levels
Grevious Angel – Kleer (Forefront)
Batu – 105.6
Beneath – Wip
Beneath – United Minds
Balistiq Beats & Jamakabi – Concrete Jungle – Beneath’s 350 Remix (Keysound)

http://www.factmag.com/2012/05/07/fact-mix-328-beneath/

Wen - Sonic Router Mix #147

Horsepower Productions – Rain [Tempa]
Wen – In [unreleased]
Balistiq Beats ft. Jamakabi – Concrete Jungle (Yardman Riddim) (Beneath remix) [Forthcoming Keysound]
My Nu Leng – Run [unreleased]
Epoch – Bodywash [unreleased]
EOMAC – That Boy [Hsuan]
J-One – Sacred [unreleased]
My Nu Leng – The Grid [Forthcoming 877]
Visionist – Control This [Forthcoming Signal Life]
Wen – Nightcrawler [unreleased]
Epoch – The Steppenwolf [unreleased]
J-One – The Truth [unreleased]
Blackdown – R In Zero G [Keysound]
Wen vs Epoch – Hydraulics (Epoch Bass Mix ft. Joshua Idehen) [Egyptian Avenue]

http://www.sonicrouter.com/2012/11/sr-mix-147-wen-egyptian-avenue/

Threnody - HEDMUCK Exclusive Mix

Etch – Right Foot FWD [Dub]
Epoch – The Steppenwolf [Dub]
Name_Pending – Mindf__k [Dub]
Underclass – Ecko [Dub]
Wen – Walk Tha Walk [Dub]
Wen & Epoch – Hydraulics (Epoch Bass Mix feat. Joshua Idehen) [Egyptian Avenue Dub]
Wen & Epoch – Hydraulics [Egyptian Avenue Dub]
Underclass – Klang [Dub]
Threnody – Subminimal [Dub]
Blackdown & Dusk – High Road [Keysound]
Etch & J-One – Sounds [Dub]
Underclass – Banana Boat [Dub]
Loefah - Bombay Squad [Rephlex]
Side9000 – THX Riddim [Dub]
Threnody – Synchronic [Dub]
Wen – Swingin' [Dub]
Jon E Cash – Spanish [Black Ops]
Etch – See Me On The Road [Dub]
Threnody – Depth [Dub]

http://hedmuk.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/featuring-threnody.html

yyaldrin
16-02-2013, 02:29 PM
It's all I've been listening to the last days/weeks, that last Dusk & Blackdown was so great, the E.M.M.A. tune in there is mental.

tom lea
16-02-2013, 04:28 PM
while there's obviously something in the water right now, with ppl bored of the 4x4/stabby house bassline/au seve-core monotony that's become default in a lot of london clubs/radio and making stuff that's more do with grime, ukg, dubstep and bassline, i think trying to reduce it to tempo is a bit silly.

for example (and i know it sounds a bit smarmy to bring it up, as i already sent martin an email to correct him in the week) in that blog post, he was talking about samename's 'okishima island' as an example of this 130 stuff, when it's actually 140. likewise rabit, his next single is 120bpm or something.

there's a lot of exciting people about right now - wen, beneath, rabit, samename, bloom, mella dee, logos, samrai, compa, visionist, walter ego, slackk of course - that have more to do than grime and dubstep than copying kerri chandler or whoever, but as many of them favour 140bpm as 130, and the links to grime and dubstep are more to do with aesthetic than tempo.

e.g. logos' 'kowloon' and samename's lucid remix:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpXMvw5LgJs
https://soundcloud.com/samenames/lucid-on-on-samename-remix

similar sound palette, whacked-out evil sub-zero grime tunes, coming from producers who (i presume) take inspiration from a lot of the same stuff. one's 130-ish and one's 140, but don't tell me they're not part of the same thing.

Blackdown
16-02-2013, 04:52 PM
Well maybe though these things need factors that create a sense of focus & belonging, otherwise you get the "there's no foci" malaise everyone has complained about since 09.

NOSY
16-02-2013, 04:52 PM
Im making straight up techno at 116 these days.

Blackdown
16-02-2013, 05:07 PM
I know, I know!

slackk
16-02-2013, 09:27 PM
yeah it's not a tempo but it definitely is a thing

Elijah
17-02-2013, 12:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1xzRyCt3Ww

This is nice.

Would prob play more of this stuff if people sent it to me.

I wanna hear stuff with new sounds though rather than just relying on tempo as point of difference.

Kinda reminds me of the early days of Butterz. Clearly a group of people that are good / could be great producers just one tune away from causing a storm, no reason why that can't happen.

trilliam
17-02-2013, 02:11 PM
meh

Blackdown
17-02-2013, 02:20 PM
I wanna hear stuff with new sounds though rather than just relying on tempo as point of difference.

I think people are missing what's going on here.

It's not tempo as some key differentiator, it's using tempo as the least limiting factor of commonality amongst a bunch of diverse but creative people.

If we said "hey all this stuff is dark" then it's immediately excluded all the people making bright, grimey or colourful stuff. If we said "it's all percussive and rolling" it excludes those making halfstep or more spacious stuff. and so on and so on.

So it's not that tempo is some exciting factor, its just a useful non-constrictive factor of commonality so creative sounds can be empowered but also not be so dispersed as to be basically unconnected.

now yeah, to an extent tom's right, there's good people at 110, 140 and so on - and our 2 hour club sets can go from 120 -> 160bpm, but taken as a whole there's far more creativity for what we're interested in from 125-135, so that's where we're enjoying playing.

datwun
18-02-2013, 04:20 PM
Anything which helps kill the words 'UK Bass'

Sectionfive
18-02-2013, 05:51 PM
focus

^

No doubt something is brewing around the keysound orbit over the last year. Carving it out

Esp
18-02-2013, 06:38 PM
I think people are missing what's going on here.

It's not tempo as some key differentiator, it's using tempo as the least limiting factor of commonality amongst a bunch of diverse but creative people.

If we said "hey all this stuff is dark" then it's immediately excluded all the people making bright, grimey or colourful stuff. If we said "it's all percussive and rolling" it excludes those making halfstep or more spacious stuff. and so on and so on.

So it's not that tempo is some exciting factor, its just a useful non-constrictive factor of commonality so creative sounds can be empowered but also not be so dispersed as to be basically unconnected.

now yeah, to an extent tom's right, there's good people at 110, 140 and so on - and our 2 hour club sets can go from 120 -> 160bpm, but taken as a whole there's far more creativity for what we're interested in from 125-135, so that's where we're enjoying playing.

Cant you (or someone) just give it a name? Using a tempo as a name for a genuine 'thing' is constrictive or at best confusing.

trilliam
19-02-2013, 04:00 AM
why does it need a name

constant branding ppl so eager to look for the next big thing

killing it prematurely

even tryna tag this all as "130" is abit wtf seeing as a man has already said it fluctuates between this and that.

if u wanna lump this all under one label

then put it on a record label or better yet a group of em

whytea
19-02-2013, 10:01 AM
yeah it's not a tempo but it definitely is a thing

sick quote

Although I am partial to a bit of the "au-seve" style house (not my words) mentioned in this thread, but I would agree this (music referred to in thread) is definitely the most exciting at the moment

The new Wen release on Keysound is fucking wicked

jimitheexploder
19-02-2013, 01:38 PM
All this stuff is wicked. Dusk & Blackdown's show has been top quality on this tip.

I'd love to hear more from Martin Kemp he's insane on that 130-ish tip. The last 12" on Frijsfo was killer and he'd been quiet for some time before that and I think he fits in well with this loose kinda sound.

There is a fine line sometimes between some of Visionists stuff and a lot of Addison Groove's early bits and some of his pretenders at times espesh with earlier Visionist records but he's really coming into his own of late and expanding on that. But its kinda close at times, it aint far off Mickey Pearce stuff either. People like Boxwork and Dark Sky play close to the edge of that too on this kinda tip too but sometimes a killer track comes out of that so its all good.

Hope it all keeps expanding because right now its tough to do a mix on this vibe without sounding like you're just ripping off Dusk & Blackdown and playing a Keysound record every other track haha.

tom lea
19-02-2013, 02:44 PM
then put it on a record label or better yet a group of em
think a group of em is gonna emerge in the next year/year and a half. coyote, glacial sound, egyptian avenue, lost codes, oil gang, keysound obviously, i've heard some of the stuff that a few of these have coming up and altho they're all different it seems to come from a place that appeals to me and that i can identify with far more than a lot of the labels that are big right now. i feel like they have far more to do with what my label puts out than say, pmr does.

it's nice too cos as the whole uk bass thing or whatever you wanna call it got bigger, it became more fractured and a lot of the dialogue between labels/artists that was there in 2010 broke down. whereas there seems to be a bit more dialogue between this group of labels right now, and a common set of values that appeal to them, even if they are releasing stuff in different styles/tempo. i think i'd rather it not get a name tagged to it, really.

Sectionfive
19-02-2013, 03:00 PM
The presence of junglist dna that started to be diluted elsewhere after 2009ish. More Photek then Kerri.

Or more broadly that sound that distinguished 'London' from house.

tom lea
19-02-2013, 03:15 PM
Or more broadly that sound that distinguished 'London' from house.

i think this is key really

Blackdown
19-02-2013, 04:40 PM
even tryna tag this all as "130" is abit wtf

I'm not. Let's keep this nice balance of similarity and difference.

Sectionfive
19-02-2013, 05:24 PM
On that point it's quite strange and I suppose further symptom of the broadness/dilution of focus that we don't have fwd>>, Tresor, Garage and of course House etc anymore.


When was the last time a club gave birth to a 'sound'?

wen
20-02-2013, 01:06 PM
When was the last time a club gave birth to a 'sound'?

Haha yea, satellite ting tho, everyone contributing to this sound is from all over the place..

anyways i like how we only take it to the club on special occasions, its memorable and more of a statement that way

jimitheexploder
22-02-2013, 01:49 PM
Nice 130-ish dark industrial rolling deep dubstep thing.

https://soundcloud.com/blakesleyy/mines

4linehaiku
22-02-2013, 05:15 PM
Just follow the electro precedent and call it new wave. It'll be funny.

jimitheexploder
22-02-2013, 09:02 PM
Blackwax – Sonic Router x Uncle Albert Mix

Wen – Commotion [Keysound]
Brunks – Tools [Unreleased]
Untold – Stop What You’re Doing (Kowton remix) [Hemlock Recordings]
Ballistiq Beats – Concrete jungle (Beneath’s 350 remix) [Keysound]
Youngstar – Pulse X (Blackwax remix) [Liminal Sounds]
Hackman and Tesella – Now I’ve Lost My Number 4 [Audio Culture]
Sticky Feat Ms Dynamite ?– Booo! [Public Demand]
Wiley – Ice Rink (Moleskin remix) [Goon Club Allstars]
Skepta – UFO [Boy Better Know]
Dark Sky – Gaddagive [50 Weapons]
Jean Nipon – Black Things On Desk [ClekClekBoom]
LAS – Lowout (Teeth remix) [Signal Life]
Bambounou – Off The Motion[50 Weapons]
Jay Weed – Tunnels [2085]
Facta – Kobra [Unreleased]
Randomer – Nar [Hemlock Recordings]
Breen – Hoods Up [Unreleased]
Bloom – Zing Panther [Lost Codes]
Logos – Devils (Palace remix) [Unknown to the Unknown]
Wiley – Morgue [White]
MssingNo – Skeezer [Unreleased]

http://www.sonicrouter.com/2013/02/blackwax-sonic-router-x-uncle-albert-mix/

Vic Serotonin
22-02-2013, 10:26 PM
Interview and a mix from Rabit for Liminal Sounds. The interview is a good read, with some interesting insights about his exposure to nuum sounds (and grime in particular) while being at a geographical remove (he's from Houston).

"As far as grime going on where I am, there’s no scene to speak of and I hope it stays that way. I think I’m an anomaly in that most people doing grime outside of the UK aren’t very good, they don’t get it."

http://www.liminalsounds.com/blog/liminal-sounds-vol-25-rabit/

Tracklist:

Visionist – Pain
Parker – Yellow Fever
Rabit – Pressurized
Wen – Late Night
Rabit – Soy Sauce
Wen – Road
Rabit – Melt
Myth – Seven
Sepia – No One Is Safe
Strict Face – Mylar Swamp

Local Authority
22-02-2013, 10:31 PM
Good to see this is finally being spoken about.

jimitheexploder
23-02-2013, 12:10 AM
If I was playing top trumps with them last few mixes...

Rabit slays it and Rabit aint even mixin'.

Bastard traxx.

haha

SecondLine
23-02-2013, 10:38 AM
yeah that rabit mix is frosty as fuck

really enjoying this thread, cheers everyone

Vic Serotonin
27-02-2013, 07:20 PM
Interview + a nice little free tune from Settles:

http://www.getsomeuk.com/introducing046-settles/

"I think Blackdown’s on to something when he talks about the whole 130 thing he’s pushing, labelling by tempo makes sense because there are too many different influences involved to pin it down to one pre-existing tag. One of things that encouraged me to get into production was how exciting underground dance music seemed in London when I first moved here in 2010, and how open minded a scene it was musically. It’s become more and more compartmentalized since then, but I feel like it’s starting to open up again."

https://soundcloud.com/get-some-uk/plateau-settles

NOSY
27-02-2013, 09:29 PM
Labelling by tempo doesn't make sense though imo.

Pinch talks sense when he talks about how music is best suited to being categorised using mood rather than bpm.

http://soundcloud.com/nichenbump/beneath-strike-a-pose

This is 122 but its linked in with other music in this thread through vibe, not bpm. Tom made the same point earlier in the thread too.

Blackdown
27-02-2013, 09:43 PM
OK Ben, hows about i make up some bait genre name and straightjacket your style that then? ;)

Tenner says you'll come back screaming and begging for something as ill defined and clearly-not-an-actual-label-but-a-placeholder as a tempo in about 5 minutes.

Trust me, been round this one a few times before...

Roshman
27-02-2013, 10:26 PM
what if we called it Keysound, doubt Blackdown would have any qualms then.

Blackdown
27-02-2013, 10:29 PM
Let's not call it anything

Benny B
27-02-2013, 11:08 PM
Speaking (ahem) genre-ally, the best names are surely the ones that gain currency naturally through the fanbase or the producers themselves and often difficult to trace to an exact source.

Mind you, following this logic and given that this thread is basically about the music on your label (and is quite a small scene right?) you've actually got more right than anyone to name this genre Martin, I'd go for it!

But in all seriousness, having a sort of semi-genre status based around a particular label can be an honourable thing - obviously it happens a lot in house and techno (and obviously dubstep too which seems to be the main source for this stuff) to denote a particular flavour, and I think the stuff on this thread is much more on that level rather than any 'whole new genre' talk. If it started to really catch on and spread further then, fair enough.

Vic Serotonin
28-02-2013, 01:06 AM
It's interesting to see the opprobrium towards discussion around 130 as a label/placeholder here. I think it's fairly clear that the emphasis on 130 is being used as one way of providing a sense of cohesion (in contrast with the protean "post-dubstep"). But if we want to talk genres, then a lot of this stuff seems to me to be the product of a blurring at the interstices between grime, dubstep, and funky. Individual examples might lean more towards any one of of these three poles (eg. Epoch -> dubstep Visionist -> grime Beneath -> funky) but with the best tracks/producers I don't think it's ever easily reducible to just one of these three as you suggest Benny. For instance, Visionist talks about how hearing UK Funky/grime crossover stuff like Anaconda caused him to change up his approach as a producer:

http://www.liminalsounds.com/blog/interview-visionist/

Part of me regrets titling the thread with the tempo, but then again there really isn't any other obvious way of referring to it in lieu of an actual genre/sub-genre name, which, for many of the reasons cited here isn't something that you'd want to force or impose. Speaking from a purely utilitarian perspective it probably would've been a bit silly if I'd called the thread "nuumish mutant darkside progeny of funky, grime, and dubstep".

I don't think mood and tempo need to be set up as mutually exclusive ways of understanding this stuff. It might be better to think of the emphasis on 130 as a kind of organizing category, or as one way of approaching the sound that compliments its shared pirate radio/nuum ethos. I suspect if you conducted a basic sort of sociology of this stuff (which as a DJ/label-head/journo Blackdown kind of does) I think it's fair to say theres a general trend towards 130, and away from the two poles of 140 (dubstep) and 120ish (house). Since you're trying to blend/blur between funky (traditionally sub 130) and grime & dubstep (140) 130 feels about right doesn't it? And if you're DJing this stuff, you can set controls for 130, and include pretty much all of this stuff by pitching up and down where necessary, so I think that's probably partly where that figure comes from too.

Benny B
28-02-2013, 01:50 AM
whats this weird tempo obsession? If it does nothing to describe the music that its referred to then whats the point of even mentioning it? You can find dance music of practically every description at this tempo.

This stuff only draws inspiration from a very specific part of funky, which was basically the part that sounded most like early dubstep anyway - dark rolling drums, brooding bass etc...but there was always much more to funky than that. Its much more a dubstep thing, I mean we're talking about Blackdown here!

Benny B
28-02-2013, 01:54 AM
I don't think mood and tempo need to be set up as mutually exclusive ways of understanding this stuff. It might be better to think of the emphasis on 130 as a kind of organizing category, or as one way of approaching the sound that compliments its shared pirate radio/nuum ethos. I suspect if you conducted a basic sort of sociology of this stuff (which as a DJ/label-head/journo Blackdown kind of does) I think it's fair to say theres a general trend towards 130, and away from the two poles of 140 (dubstep) and 120ish (house). Since you're trying to blend/blur between funky (traditionally sub 130) and grime & dubstep (140) 130 feels about right doesn't it? And if you're DJing this stuff, you can set controls for 130, and include pretty much all of this stuff by pitching up and down where necessary, so I think that's probably partly where that figure comes from too.

sorry but this is pure waffle man

Benny B
28-02-2013, 02:03 AM
also, I love Wiley as much as the next man but does no one else think this eski thing has been done to death by now?

Vic Serotonin
28-02-2013, 05:00 AM
sorry but this is pure waffle man

Sorry if that wasn't clear enough. I just said that it seems like most of this stuff is at about 130 bpm (or a few bpm either side), and that as a DJ it's nice to be able to not have to change the pitch too much. Surely it wasn't a coincidence that most dubstep was at 140, or most jungle at 160? Tempo was an important organizing factor in both those cases, so I don't see why it's weird that a group of DJs/producers might gravitate towards 130 now, and I was just trying to offer one reason that that might be - namely, because 130 is a nice middle ground between funky on the one side, and dubstep and grime on the other. Does that make more sense?

slackk
28-02-2013, 10:13 AM
I think that when you’re talking about this in terms of “130!” or it just being a “keysound” thing it’s getting oversimplified really. After the past few years’ sea change toward London being all about the house thing, and the UK sound in general, I’d say that this is more reflective of a lot of new producers coming through with a more “classic” dubstep or grime influence to their sound.
It seems to me from the stuff I’m hearing and being sent that the grime influence is really prominent of late, whether it’s at actual grime tempo (so many good producers coming through man) or the seemingly magical 130 number and downwards. But it’s not just this little pocket in one camp; if this is a thread about the extended keysound label then fair enough but this is definitely bigger than that.

Benny B
28-02-2013, 11:08 AM
Vic, sorry I'd had a glass of wine last night, thats why i was a bit rude.

benw
28-02-2013, 12:15 PM
Vic, sorry I'd had a glass of wine last night, thats why i was a bit rude.

if that's what you're like after a glass of wine benny fuck bumping into you on a night out ;)

tom lea
28-02-2013, 02:14 PM
I think that when you’re talking about this in terms of “130!” or it just being a “keysound” thing it’s getting oversimplified really. After the past few years’ sea change toward London being all about the house thing, and the UK sound in general, I’d say that this is more reflective of a lot of new producers coming through with a more “classic” dubstep or grime influence to their sound.

It seems to me from the stuff I’m hearing and being sent that the grime influence is really prominent of late, whether it’s at actual grime tempo (so many good producers coming through man) or the seemingly magical 130 number and downwards. But it’s not just this little pocket in one camp; if this is a thread about the extended keysound label then fair enough but this is definitely bigger than that.


Pinch talks sense when he talks about how music is best suited to being categorised using mood rather than bpm.

both of these posts are spot on.

Beneath, Wen, Visionist are releasing on Keysound, and Rabit's on that compilation, but there's way more people on this wave than just them (a lot of whom i named earlier). it's really nothing to do with tempo, it's to do with getting back to UK music sounding sick again after a couple of years of bait maya jane coles-style house, and making stuff that's tough and hype and has a shock factor and appeals in the same way that garage and grime and bassline and funky did. It could be 100bpm or it could be 160bpm, doesn't matter.

Vic Serotonin
28-02-2013, 06:13 PM
Benny, all good man, thanks. Slackk, agree that it's definitely beyond just Keysound, as Tom pointed out with plenty of other new labels coming through (Glacial, Egyptian Avenue, 92 Points, Niche n' Bump, Signal Life, Liminal Sounds, Poly Kicks etc), along with other more established labels who have been doing this for a bit longer (Local Action, Hessle, Box Clever, Tectonic, Punch Drunk, Frijsfo etc).

As for the fixation on tempo, I guess Blackdown's remarks about 130 resonate for me with something Kode9 once said at (I think) RBMA 2010 about how he preferred that the music he was into was at/around one tempo (for ease of DJing), and how he was generally frustrated/uninspired by the state of things at the time with 140bpm dubstep, and as a result his DJ sets required a lot of movement across a large range of tempos.

But yeah, whether or not you buy that that's significant/relevant or not, I'm just excited that it's happening.

Roshman
28-02-2013, 09:22 PM
Mind you, following this logic and given that this thread is basically about the music on your label (and is quite a small scene right?) you've actually got more right than anyone to name this genre Martin, I'd go for it!



Can't wait to see Ministry of Sound "Keysound" compilation CDs in my local petrol station in 10 years time.:p

firefly
28-02-2013, 10:14 PM
could you guys give some examples of tunes that are 'mindblowing' in your opinion?

trilliam
01-03-2013, 12:02 AM
im not gonna lie theres some good mixes in here (rabit, threnody)

but what seperates this from post dubstep really and truly, to me it just sounds like the vacuum has moved onto grime. its sounds r gna be plundered, flipped then onto the next trend. nothing rong with that (i guess) but it's more hand me downs than emperors new clothes

anyway thats the long n short of it with me like i said i like most of what ive heard but some of what i dislike is highlighted here


This stuff only draws inspiration from a very specific part of funky, which was basically the part that sounded most like early dubstep anyway - dark rolling drums, brooding bass etc...but there was always much more to funky than that. Its much more a dubstep thing, I mean we're talking about Blackdown here!

smh whenever i see the funky link mentioned, tried that beneath stuff it's a nice idea like the whole "darkside funky" is a nice idea but it comes off too overwrought like its rele trying too hard in the whole funky department with the crazy drums w/e

with all this said what is the problem with house, bait maya janes this au-seve style that, even this whole revisiting thing seems like a direct reaction to it's being popular, if u r looking for the LONDON sound the attitude u r not gonna find it by trying to COMBINE every part of it's essence (grime,"funky",dubstep") weird sounds from a handful of experimental labels this may be, newfangled sensation it is definitely not. cant force these things uno.

luka
01-03-2013, 08:31 AM
its fan fiction basically

firefly
01-03-2013, 12:22 PM
lol nice one

rubberdingyrapids
01-03-2013, 04:36 PM
its a bit like a frankenstein nuum. desperately trying to create the perfect nuum sound in response to everything else out there, but its not being done in an organic sense like the scenes of the past.

not that i dont like it.

whytea
01-03-2013, 05:43 PM
https://soundcloud.com/circadian-rhythms-nts/cr001-facta

Tracklisting:
Rabit – Abandoned - (Dub)
Facta – Montpelier - (Forthcoming)
Wen – In - (Dub)
Facta – Kobra - (Forthcoming)
Epoch – The Steppenwolf - (Forthcoming Keysound)
Sepia – Outbreak - (Dub)
Etch – Scattah - (Dub)
Karma – Armshouse Dub - (Dub)
Facta – Watertank - (Dub)
Facta & K-Lone – Voodoo - (Dub)
Facta – 36th Chamber - (Dub)


Kobra is a fucking beast

Benny B
01-03-2013, 07:45 PM
its fan fiction basically

could you say more about this luka? I think you're on to something.

I think fan fiction can be a wonderful thing - fantasizing and mythologising about art can produce great ideas and sometimes great art in itself. I think the problem with this stuff (and its been highlighted many times before on this forum) is that its become too knowledgeable about its subject. The story of dance music in london is indeed an endlessly fascinating subject, but it seems like the subject of the fascination has lost its mystery somewhat. Its easy for someone who was far too young to experience 90s rave for example, to become practically an expert in its history. Knowledge, huge amounts of it, is passed on through the internet and is accessible to everyone (rather than people learning directly from other people in a more localised way, as used to happen a lot more it seems). So what we get are all these records that, in coming so close to what they are inspired by, never sound quite right somehow. If a fan knows too much about their subject then then is nothing left to imagine and fantasize about - its just telling old stories over and over again.

Going even further off tangent here but with this debate I sometimes think its similar to learning a language off the internet vs going to classes and meeting native speakers in the flesh. Sure, you can stay at home and learn thousands of words, improve your listening skills etc etc and reach a high level of knowledge about grammar and so on - but you're not going to sound as natural as someone who goes out and communicates with people first hand, or be able to express your own thoughts and ideas as well. And you can almost never speak as well a native obviously. Post dubstep music in the internet age is like the equivalent of esperanto.

I'm loathe to bring up Jackin again in yet another thread, but I think it provides a nice contrast and explains why it appeals so much more to me. I think the fairly blatant idiocy of much of it really masks one of its strengths - there is less respect for the past, so you get a lot more hijacking of current hits and mainstream music styles, whatever,s fresh and popular at the time. When old songs are sampled or ripped off it isn't usually a reverent thing but a straight populist move, or often an act of vandalism on the original. The people making Jackin at the the minute are much more localised, and therefore seem to be constantly collaborating on tunes together (and half the scene must have been through Lorenzo's studio at some point) and this strikes me as a very healthy way to pass on expertise and build a scene. The fan fiction problem that (i think?) luka was referring to doesn't really come into it.

I could go on, boringly, and I'm sorry for shitting up this thread for people who into this stuff , but luka's comment just triggered few thoughts is all and I want him to expand a bit more on what he means for once ;)

oh god, the most stoned rambling post ever but fuck it, off it goes!

Corpsey
01-03-2013, 08:11 PM
I wish someone would write a proper history of grime (unless this exists already and I'm just ignorant of it) cos to me those 8 bar tunes just sound like they came out of nowhere almost - Wiley's synths e.g. where did that come from? I suppose Pulse X kicked it off? Also I guess the technology was part of it - making beats on playstations and all that.

I love this tune


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUjJKhNjmP8

but its not 'mindblowing' to me cos its recycling old eski sounds. I really like the Beneath Fact mix too but again its just like dubstep with house beats.

I do appreciate the idea of taking UK music 'back' to being more grimey, broken etc. cos house is getting boring to me at this point. I guess funky was doing that though until it sort of died out and jackin' (stuff like ill / phil lorenzo) is doing that too. I think the stuff in this thread is more like dubstep, more geared towards depth and atmospherics than hype and you know what I do miss dancing to that kind of thing too. I can imagine seeing Beneath in Plastic PPL for example would be quite a zoner.

Pandiculate
02-03-2013, 10:05 AM
https://soundcloud.com/circadian-rhythms-nts/cr001-facta

Tracklisting:
Rabit – Abandoned - (Dub)
Facta – Montpelier - (Forthcoming)
Wen – In - (Dub)
Facta – Kobra - (Forthcoming)
Epoch – The Steppenwolf - (Forthcoming Keysound)
Sepia – Outbreak - (Dub)
Etch – Scattah - (Dub)
Karma – Armshouse Dub - (Dub)
Facta – Watertank - (Dub)
Facta & K-Lone – Voodoo - (Dub)
Facta – 36th Chamber - (Dub)


Kobra is a fucking beast

sick mix

Roshman
03-03-2013, 12:14 AM
After having to sit through most of Saturdays (02/03/13) Boilerroom from New York, as my girlfriend was waiting for Nicolas Jaar to come on, I find myself appreciating the need to preserve this "UK" sound.

While some might say that the harking back / ripping off / re-hashing of 2006 Dubstep glory years or eski-grime is counter-productive / inward looking / overly-nostalgic it is something that needs to happen. It's obviously not just done in an unimaginative way, it's been improved, tweaked, twisted into some strain that for some reason or another didn't make itself apparent when the sounds of those genres were being found or discovered.

If there aren't people out there, sticking to their guns, promoting the sound that was born from an actual scene then you could find yourself in a situation that I'm listening to now. Where some of the most unimpressive music I've heard for a long time is being lauded and we're all expected to believe how brilliant it all is.

Big up Blackdown for being unwavering in his selection. Keysound could no doubt be a lot bigger than it is today if it decided to go down some bait paths, but instead it's become a home to an uncompromising array of sounds and truly talented producers, regardless of name.

jorge
03-03-2013, 09:54 AM
So what we get are all these records that, in coming so close to what they are inspired by, never sound quite right somehow. If a fan knows too much about their subject....


It sounds to me like you know too much about the subject. I get where your coming from but why not just take the music for what it is instead of trying to work out how authentic it is and how well it fits into the nuum model (although admittedly the music is presenting itself as a very nuum sound) .

By your logic ( which im not necessarily disagreeing with) places like this forum are in fact damaging the music because of the endless discussion and the retrospective crystallisation of this music. Which is interesting because it shows that criticism doesnt exist in a vacuum and that the kind of theorising you are doing, ie. that jackin is more appealing because it has less respect for the past and is more idiotic, perhaps will encourage others to do the same, but then will they be authentically idiotic or just making fan-fiction idiocy?

I can enjoy both jackin and this stuff but I think theres more potential in this because jackin is starting from a pretty played out sound and this stuff is abit fresher. I would say though, it needs less grime referencing because that does makes it come off sounding like a pastiche alot of the time.

SecondLine
03-03-2013, 10:04 AM
It sounds to me like you know too much about the subject.

yes, this.

Benny B
03-03-2013, 10:29 AM
It sounds to me like you know too much about the subject. I get where your coming from but why not just take the music for what it is instead of trying to work out how authentic it is and how well it fits into the nuum model (although admittedly the music is presenting itself as a very nuum sound) .

By your logic ( which im not necessarily disagreeing with) places like this forum are in fact damaging the music because of the endless discussion and the retrospective crystallisation of this music. Which is interesting because it shows that criticism doesnt exist in a vacuum and that the kind of theorising you are doing, ie. that jackin is more appealing because it has less respect for the past and is more idiotic, perhaps will encourage others to do the same, but then will they be authentically idiotic or just making fan-fiction idiocy?

I can enjoy both jackin and this stuff but I think theres more potential in this because jackin is starting from a pretty played out sound and this stuff is a bit fresher. I would say though, it needs less grime referencing because that does makes it come off sounding like a pastiche alot of the time.

well i think its fine for us lot to be discussing and criticising this stuff, but I think its fair to say most of the producers/artists I like aren't exactly forum-reading, theoretical types. They tend to just get on with it. I do reckon over-thinking things can be a problem for an artist but not really a critic.

jorge
03-03-2013, 11:14 AM
well i think its fine for us lot to be discussing and criticising this stuff, but I think its fair to say most of the producers/artists I like aren't exactly forum-reading, theoretical types. They tend to just get on with it. I do reckon over-thinking things can be a problem for an artist but not really a critic.

yeah i would agree to a certain extent, in my own production I have been guilty of over thinking but i feel like im getting past that now. Also some of my favourite producers make what I would describe as well thought-out and detailed tunes which may seem overly studied to others, objekt and 2562 for example.

I dont think its clear cut at all though and most producers will have an internet presence and more than likely have a look at what people are saying on the forums. Also how do you know the forum-reading/theoretical habits of the producers you like?

Benny B
03-03-2013, 11:57 AM
I dunno, i just checked out that threnody mix from the recommendations on the first page and read the interview - he seems incredibly well-versed and articulate about early dubstep and grime and theorises about them in a way that you very rarely see from artists in grime, bassline, funky, jackin. And it strikes me that lots of the interviews you read with these guys are like this. Maybe its a post-burial thing?

Then I listened to the mix and it starts off with pure period piece mid-noughties dubstep. I flicked through the rest but it all just seemed so boring.

Blackdown
03-03-2013, 12:05 PM
This idea that other genre's musicians are oblivious to their influences or don't think about their music isn't just offensive to generations of musicians, it's flawed bullshit Benny. It's fan fiction.

Benny B
03-03-2013, 12:10 PM
This idea that other genre's musicians are oblivious to their influences or don't think about their music isn't just offensive to generations of musicians, it's flawed bullshit Benny. It's fan fiction.

totally agree but i've never said that musicians are oblivious to their influences or don't think about their music. That would be stupid.

Elijah
03-03-2013, 01:08 PM
Wheres the riddims at no more theory from Benny B please

mistersloane
03-03-2013, 01:14 PM
slash. slash music.

trilliam
03-03-2013, 01:49 PM
After having to sit through most of Saturdays (02/03/13) Boilerroom from New York, as my girlfriend was waiting for Nicolas Jaar to come on, I find myself appreciating the need to preserve this "UK" sound.

While some might say that the harking back / ripping off / re-hashing of 2006 Dubstep glory years or eski-grime is counter-productive / inward looking / overly-nostalgic it is something that needs to happen. It's obviously not just done in an unimaginative way, it's been improved, tweaked, twisted into some strain that for some reason or another didn't make itself apparent when the sounds of those genres were being found or discovered.

If there aren't people out there, sticking to their guns, promoting the sound that was born from an actual scene then you could find yourself in a situation that I'm listening to now. Where some of the most unimpressive music I've heard for a long time is being lauded and we're all expected to believe how brilliant it all is.

Big up Blackdown for being unwavering in his selection. Keysound could no doubt be a lot bigger than it is today if it decided to go down some bait paths, but instead it's become a home to an uncompromising array of sounds and truly talented producers, regardless of name.

lies

said
03-03-2013, 02:21 PM
It sounds to me like you know too much about the subject. I get where your coming from but why not just take the music for what it is instead of trying to work out how authentic it is and how well it fits into the nuum model (although admittedly the music is presenting itself as a very nuum sound) .

By your logic ( which im not necessarily disagreeing with) places like this forum are in fact damaging the music because of the endless discussion and the retrospective crystallisation of this music. Which is interesting because it shows that criticism doesnt exist in a vacuum and that the kind of theorising you are doing, ie. that jackin is more appealing because it has less respect for the past and is more idiotic, perhaps will encourage others to do the same, but then will they be authentically idiotic or just making fan-fiction idiocy?


appreciate that this has been replied to, but i think this post (and others) go in pretty hard on benny quite unfairly. you can't listen to this 'for what it is' as if that's separate to a knowledge of nuum music. it is, whether you like it or not, hyper-referential to the london sound - photek not kerri chandler as someone said up thread. and surely it's completely reasonable to suggest that some artists' musics, and some sounds/genres/scenes/etc are shaped by varying levels of historical awareness? don't see how that denigrates anyone's artistic thoughtfulness or skill

having said that i actually much prefer this dark 130/blah stuff to jackin (tho i like jackin too). it feels archival rather than a full-blooded fresh nuum movement, which i think jackin could claim to be, and wen's post in here that it's good that it's a sound that doesn't get taken to the club much is def telling - BUT it's got it's own power for that. the boomkat review of the (amazing) keysound wen record had an absolutely sick line that sums up its power for me, and says a lot about how the sound works imo: "the ghosts of MCs past exhumed and condemned to roam the earth - hypemen as bogeymen." that's not exactly fwd. but it is brilliant.

i think its easy to get covertly hooked on this (reynoldsian?) concern for nuumness AND fwdness as some kind of critical schemata to measure stuff against - but for me its no criticism to say that the music might be doing something different to pure fwd energy.

jimitheexploder
03-03-2013, 03:12 PM
I think you can find a thru line from the past with all genres. Just like this stuff has elements of grime, dubstep, funky, juke, garage, etc. Jackin' has elements of electro, bassline, euro house, electro house, tech house, blog house, dutch house, fidget, pop. I know which influences I find more played out personaly.

Do you think there is a case for saying some pople that have found jackin' in recent years wern't that familuar with say stuff like fidget, big room tech house, electro before? Or maybe just came to it because of Marcus Nasty or bassline... So those influences aren't playing as much on their minds when they heard jackin' so they see it as something really new. Where as they had been listening to grime and dubstep for years so are really familuar with its sounds so get a bit more crital about its use in newer music. I dunno, sounds like a dissensus problem rather than one of a lot of people. Its a bit inside out but I dunno, I kinda get that vibe from some people.

To me Jackin is a really obvious liniage from bassline finaly mixing into big room electro house sounds that where always prominent, well pretty much everywhere. It was bound to happen up in the north when bassline started to slow down a bit, since that electro sound would pick up the slack in the clubs since it was always around.

jorge
03-03-2013, 03:48 PM
Was I being too harsh? i get where hes coming from and agree on a few things. was just highlighting that in a way he (/this forum) is guilty of the same thing he was criticising, ie being to knowledgeable and theoretical about music. And that while there is a difference between making music and criticising it, the two are very closely linked and its not a one way process, especially now that is done on the internet for all to see.


you can't listen to this 'for what it is' as if that's separate to a knowledge of nuum music. it is, whether you like it or not, hyper-referential to the london sound

Didnt say it was, I meant not discounting it purely because its not made 'authentically'. Your saying the same thing. Its mainly because its referential to the London sound that I like it. The same way alot of great dubstep references jungle and garage.



surely it's completely reasonable to suggest that some artists' musics, and some sounds/genres/scenes/etc are shaped by varying levels of historical awareness? don't see how that denigrates anyone's artistic thoughtfulness or skill

I pretty much said the opposite didnt I? that you shouldnt judge music on how aware someone is of the past. I dont think it necessarily hinders or helps you. He was saying that less historical knowledge, or at least knowledge gained on the internet makes more authentic music.

Benny B
03-03-2013, 04:18 PM
Didnt say it was, I meant not discounting it purely because its not made 'authentically'. Your saying the same thing. Its mainly because its referential to the London sound that I like it. The same way alot of great dubstep references jungle and garage.

He was saying that less historical knowledge, or at least knowledge gained on the internet makes more authentic music.

I never used this word.

jorge
03-03-2013, 04:41 PM
I never used this word.

no, but that was kind of the implication wasnt it? Sorry for misquoting you. Authenticity is very problematic so perhaps it wasnt the right word to use but i think its related to what you were talking about. You were saying that it sounds like these producers have learned too much about the music through the internet
rather than people learning directly from other people in a more localised way, as used to happen a lot more it seems

and that this is why they dont sound right

i think this is related to authenticity isnt it?




.

said
03-03-2013, 04:58 PM
Was I being too harsh? i get where hes coming from and agree on a few things. was just highlighting that in a way he (/this forum) is guilty of the same thing he was criticising, ie being to knowledgeable and theoretical about music. And that while there is a difference between making music and criticising it, the two are very closely linked and its not a one way process, especially now that is done on the internet for all to see.



Didnt say it was, I meant not discounting it purely because its not made 'authentically'. Your saying the same thing. Its mainly because its referential to the London sound that I like it. The same way alot of great dubstep references jungle and garage.

i should have been clearer because my comments were aimed at blackdown, secondline, elijah as much as you tbh, cos originally all i was trying to say that benny definitely wasn't totally wide of the mark at all, and that basically i think the fan fiction description has some kind of purchase - it's not just critical overthinking or w/e. i think people are misrepresenting benny's position as one that says "idiocy/lack of knowledge = better music", when all he's saying is that a certain naivete characterizes jackin, and provides it with certain strengths. guys like tom shorterz undoubtedly know their stuff (always posts loads of old speed garage/ukg/bits of strictly rhythm etc on facebook), but the basics of the sound are originated pretty unselfconsciously in bait electro and bassline - and, to me at least, that having come down through a localized, concentrated scene comes through in an interesting, mutated way thats not there in this 130 sound.

BUT maybe that's because there are very regular, actual jackin nights... which perhaps can't be said for this 130 stuff... yet? maybe jackin only feels less like fan fiction for the brute physical reason that it's more obviously dancefloor friendly, and entrenched (in the north at least) as dancefloor music. if dark 130 nights start up will that change things? it raises quite an interesting question about listening habits: do some people prefer to listen to nuum music mainly because they're interested, in a kind of sociological way, in keeping up with 'authentic' (not associating this with benny's position) uk dancefloor culture? and is that a bad thing?

huffafc
03-03-2013, 06:11 PM
great thread and a fascinating debate that seems to apply to many musical moves/movements today.

I think there's a shared archival strategy between a lot of very different scenes right now, that parallels, but is fundamentally distinct from, the hyper-referential music making that has become the status quo across many genres and geographic locations.

I'm thinking of everything from the wierd scene in NYC to this keysound/130 stuff. In his article on the last Wierd party last week, Joshua Strawn wrote that "Wierd was a conservationist mo(ve)ment." (http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/02/the_wierd_has_b.html) Conservationist in the sense of preserving something of value seen to be present in a past scene and "very rare" today. not necessarily aesthetically conservative.

Rather than reveling in the freedom to reference anything, these kinds of scenes derive an aesthetic and even an ethic from their own reading of some, genre-specific musical/cultural archive. with wierd it's minimal synth, with 130/keysound it's early oughts dubstep and grime. in both cases, this past music/culture isn't just being referenced, it's being allied with, and allied with against other musical and cultural choices. for example, for the 130-types, maintaining the spirit of rhythmic complexity and disjunction against the adoption of the techno/house pulse in a lot of UK dance music. beneath's insistence on pressing and playing physical dubplates. or staying true to the darkness or dread of jungle-->dubstep/grime. as blackdown says, harking "back to the early Forward>> and Sidewinder times we lived through." in each case, it's not a 'hey this is cool' reference among others, but a statement that this form, this practice is valuable, rare today, and worthy of being preserved contra most other things.

i see these strategies becoming more prominent as directly related to the problem of trying to find a way to make aesthetic choices become meaningful (maybe even implicitly ethical or political) choices, at a time when no reference seems out of bounds.

to go full theory for a moment, a lot of this reminds me of what Benjamin calls the 'anthropological' drive of surrealism - its turn towards discovering artifacts of the recent past that run counter to the "slick surfaces" of the world today. Or to quote Crary on Benjamin's idea, it's an attempt "reveal the potency of outmoded objects excluded from [the modern cities'/contemporary world's] slick surfaces, and of derelict spaces off its main routes of circulation." Beneath insisting on making physical dubplates, at a time when most dubs fly around the world as .wav files, really reminds me of this quote!

And that kind of 'counter-memory' is what sets off this 130/keysound stuff from jackin. Clearly producers on both sides are conscious of their references, jackin tracks are filled with nods to everything from ukg to bassline. but jackin has none of this "refusal of the imposed present" (Crary again) in favor of something else (dubstep/grime), some other time (early 00's) that the 130/keysound stuff does. that's not necessarily a value judgment about either genre. but i think it clearly distinguishes the two. they're trying to do really different things, as said and others mentioned, 130/keysound stuff isn't as obviously dancefloor friendly, in fact, it seems to be pushing the limits of what could work on a dancefloor. but hey, couldn't the same thing be said about dubstep's early days? being dancefloor-challenging ≠ being anti-dancefloor.

personally, i really like a lot of the 130/keysound artists. and, in particular, beneath -- someone who is thinking about his body of work as embodying a certain vision from production to design to musical form in a really rigorous, smart way.

Sectionfive
03-03-2013, 06:13 PM
am at a loss as to what people are arguing about tbh.

Good tunes here and a nice compliment to the healthiest grime instrumentals have been in a while too.

Benny B
03-03-2013, 06:22 PM
Great posts from said and huffafc.

Vic Serotonin
03-03-2013, 06:54 PM
great thread and a fascinating debate that seems to apply to many musical moves/movements today.

I think there's a shared archival strategy between a lot of very different scenes right now, that parallels, but is fundamentally distinct from, the hyper-referential music making that has become the status quo across many genres and geographic locations.

I'm thinking of everything from the wierd scene in NYC to this keysound/130 stuff. In his article on the last Wierd party last week, Joshua Strawn wrote that "Wierd was a conservationist mo(ve)ment." (http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/02/the_wierd_has_b.html) Conservationist in the sense of preserving something of value seen to be present in a past scene and "very rare" today. not necessarily aesthetically conservative.

Rather than reveling in the freedom to reference anything, these kinds of scenes derive an aesthetic and even an ethic from their own reading of some, genre-specific musical/cultural archive. with wierd it's minimal synth, with 130/keysound it's early oughts dubstep and grime. in both cases, this past music/culture isn't just being referenced, it's being allied with, and allied with against other musical and cultural choices. for example, for the 130-types, maintaining the spirit of rhythmic complexity and disjunction against the adoption of the techno/house pulse in a lot of UK dance music. beneath's insistence on pressing and playing physical dubplates. or staying true to the darkness or dread of jungle-->dubstep/grime. as blackdown says, harking "back to the early Forward>> and Sidewinder times we lived through." in each case, it's not a 'hey this is cool' reference among others, but a statement that this form, this practice is valuable, rare today, and worthy of being preserved contra most other things.

i see these strategies becoming more prominent as directly related to the problem of trying to find a way to make aesthetic choices become meaningful (maybe even implicitly ethical or political) choices, at a time when no reference seems out of bounds.

to go full theory for a moment, a lot of this reminds me of what Benjamin calls the 'anthropological' drive of surrealism - its turn towards discovering artifacts of the recent past that run counter to the "slick surfaces" of the world today. Or to quote Crary on Benjamin's idea, it's an attempt "reveal the potency of outmoded objects excluded from [the modern cities'/contemporary world's] slick surfaces, and of derelict spaces off its main routes of circulation." Beneath insisting on making physical dubplates, at a time when most dubs fly around the world as .wav files, really reminds me of this quote!

And that kind of 'counter-memory' is what sets off this 130/keysound stuff from jackin. Clearly producers on both sides are conscious of their references, jackin tracks are filled with nods to everything from ukg to bassline. but jackin has none of this "refusal of the imposed present" (Crary again) in favor of something else (dubstep/grime), some other time (early 00's) that the 130/keysound stuff does. that's not necessarily a value judgment about either genre. but i think it clearly distinguishes the two. they're trying to do really different things, as said and others mentioned, 130/keysound stuff isn't as obviously dancefloor friendly, in fact, it seems to be pushing the limits of what could work on a dancefloor. but hey, couldn't the same thing be said about dubstep's early days? being dancefloor-challenging ≠ being anti-dancefloor.

personally, i really like a lot of the 130/keysound artists. and, in particular, beneath -- someone who is thinking about his body of work as embodying a certain vision from production to design to musical form in a really rigorous, smart way.

Fully sick post. I also can't help but recall K-Punk's writing re. Burial too, describing how his music was at once desperate to regain a particular musical spirit that had become lost and half-remembered (in his case, rave), while simultaneously refusing to simply recycle past glories, and keeping that spirit alive by forging something new out of its remains. "The ghosts of MCs past exhumed and condemned to roam the earth" has an obvious resonance here, as does Beneath's interview with Blackdown, which approaches very similar territory. To my mind, Beneath's music (taking the spirit of dubstep and injecting it into skeletal funky tunes, with the rhythmic intensity of old source direct 12"s) is similarly an act of assembling something vital and new from out of the recent, but all too hastily discarded, past.

said
03-03-2013, 08:23 PM
great thread and a fascinating debate that seems to apply to many musical moves/movements today.

I think there's a shared archival strategy between a lot of very different scenes right now, that parallels, but is fundamentally distinct from, the hyper-referential music making that has become the status quo across many genres and geographic locations.

I'm thinking of everything from the wierd scene in NYC to this keysound/130 stuff. In his article on the last Wierd party last week, Joshua Strawn wrote that "Wierd was a conservationist mo(ve)ment." (http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/02/the_wierd_has_b.html) Conservationist in the sense of preserving something of value seen to be present in a past scene and "very rare" today. not necessarily aesthetically conservative.

Rather than reveling in the freedom to reference anything, these kinds of scenes derive an aesthetic and even an ethic from their own reading of some, genre-specific musical/cultural archive. with wierd it's minimal synth, with 130/keysound it's early oughts dubstep and grime. in both cases, this past music/culture isn't just being referenced, it's being allied with, and allied with against other musical and cultural choices. for example, for the 130-types, maintaining the spirit of rhythmic complexity and disjunction against the adoption of the techno/house pulse in a lot of UK dance music. beneath's insistence on pressing and playing physical dubplates. or staying true to the darkness or dread of jungle-->dubstep/grime. as blackdown says, harking "back to the early Forward>> and Sidewinder times we lived through." in each case, it's not a 'hey this is cool' reference among others, but a statement that this form, this practice is valuable, rare today, and worthy of being preserved contra most other things.

i see these strategies becoming more prominent as directly related to the problem of trying to find a way to make aesthetic choices become meaningful (maybe even implicitly ethical or political) choices, at a time when no reference seems out of bounds.

to go full theory for a moment, a lot of this reminds me of what Benjamin calls the 'anthropological' drive of surrealism - its turn towards discovering artifacts of the recent past that run counter to the "slick surfaces" of the world today. Or to quote Crary on Benjamin's idea, it's an attempt "reveal the potency of outmoded objects excluded from [the modern cities'/contemporary world's] slick surfaces, and of derelict spaces off its main routes of circulation." Beneath insisting on making physical dubplates, at a time when most dubs fly around the world as .wav files, really reminds me of this quote!

And that kind of 'counter-memory' is what sets off this 130/keysound stuff from jackin. Clearly producers on both sides are conscious of their references, jackin tracks are filled with nods to everything from ukg to bassline. but jackin has none of this "refusal of the imposed present" (Crary again) in favor of something else (dubstep/grime), some other time (early 00's) that the 130/keysound stuff does. that's not necessarily a value judgment about either genre. but i think it clearly distinguishes the two. they're trying to do really different things, as said and others mentioned, 130/keysound stuff isn't as obviously dancefloor friendly, in fact, it seems to be pushing the limits of what could work on a dancefloor. but hey, couldn't the same thing be said about dubstep's early days? being dancefloor-challenging ≠ being anti-dancefloor.

personally, i really like a lot of the 130/keysound artists. and, in particular, beneath -- someone who is thinking about his body of work as embodying a certain vision from production to design to musical form in a really rigorous, smart way.

great post! usually very wary of people going mega theoretical on rave, but this is really apposite.

also the facta mix posted is so good. montpelier slays.

Corpsey
03-03-2013, 08:48 PM
And that kind of 'counter-memory' is what sets off this 130/keysound stuff from jackin. Clearly producers on both sides are conscious of their references, jackin tracks are filled with nods to everything from ukg to bassline. but jackin has none of this "refusal of the imposed present" (Crary again) in favor of something else (dubstep/grime), some other time (early 00's) that the 130/keysound stuff does. that's not necessarily a value judgment about either genre. but i think it clearly distinguishes the two. they're trying to do really different things, as said and others mentioned, 130/keysound stuff isn't as obviously dancefloor friendly, in fact, it seems to be pushing the limits of what could work on a dancefloor. but hey, couldn't the same thing be said about dubstep's early days? being dancefloor-challenging ≠ being anti-dancefloor.


Yeah this part is OTM I think.

I guess its easy to forget that dubstep was never INTENDED to be rave music, at least not at the start as far as I could tell. It was invented for small rooms, small crowds, minimal drugs (apart from weed).

Ultimately Jackin' doesn't strike me as being anything particularly new either, its just hype - which is more where my taste lies nowadays.

tom lea
04-03-2013, 07:57 AM
Wheres the riddims at no more theory from Benny B please

on my phone but i'm guessing these are mostly on soundcloud etc

rabit - double dragon ep
samename - mishima curse, kastform, devil eyes
compa - 3 series, we go, feed forward
walter ego - military mind
kid d - apocalypse
slackk - shogun assassin

i mean these are mostly 140bpm beats and i dunno if anyone was referencing their nuum wallchart while writing em but they all bang.

Vic Serotonin
04-03-2013, 09:39 AM
Some highlights from the last Dusk + Blackdown:

https://soundcloud.com/underclass_uk/underclass-istiklal-avenue

https://soundcloud.com/d9kabloowww/scattah-dusk-blackdown-rinse


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-0OoTixzo4

huffafc
04-03-2013, 03:42 PM
thanks said and vic!
yeah, vic, i think there is definitely a parallel between Beneath and Burial, as well. both finding a previous moment that is productively out of sync with the present, that demonstrates that the present is not a necessity. and, as you say, using these previous moments not simply as something to be hallowed, but as a set of resources and perhaps an ethic, promise, culture to carry on.

i also see them as marking out two roughly separate stages in the - with burial you have music as mourning, reminding you of the absence of what it references. within the whole hauntological program, part of the challenge is to create emotional immediacy through an experience of distance.

what's interesting about beneath, and a lot of these 130/keysound artists, is that this is music grounded in certain recovered past moments, but they aren't heard as nearly lost in the airwaves. instead, these guys are trying to pick up a story, a project, (the dread, darkness of 00's dubstep and grime) that never finished up and can twist more recent things like funky or post-dubstep into new forms that seem to carry that story on.

or very briefly: burial/lost utopia vs beneath(130etc)/unfinished story

also i like this slithery, slightly unnerving beneath remix of photek (don't think anyone's posted it yet):
https://soundcloud.com/beneath/photek-oshun-beneath-remix

NKC
04-03-2013, 06:55 PM
thanks said and vic!
yeah, vic, i think there is definitely a parallel between Beneath and Burial, as well. both finding a previous moment that is productively out of sync with the present, that demonstrates that the present is not a necessity. and, as you say, using these previous moments not simply as something to be hallowed, but as a set of resources and perhaps an ethic, promise, culture to carry on.

i also see them as marking out two roughly separate stages in the - with burial you have music as mourning, reminding you of the absence of what it references. within the whole hauntological program, part of the challenge is to create emotional immediacy through an experience of distance.

what's interesting about beneath, and a lot of these 130/keysound artists, is that this is music grounded in certain recovered past moments, but they aren't heard as nearly lost in the airwaves. instead, these guys are trying to pick up a story, a project, (the dread, darkness of 00's dubstep and grime) that never finished up and can twist more recent things like funky or post-dubstep into new forms that seem to carry that story on.

or very briefly: burial/lost utopia vs beneath(130etc)/unfinished story



this is something i been thinkin about quite a bit recently, in a really really similar way.
to take it off topic and a bit more bait, i started thinkin about it after bok bok's southside ep got released - 'southside' referencing the grime label, Reminder being a remake of a youngstar tune, silo pass sampling dizzee's Go. if you read bok bok's interviews, he talks about the UK thing in definite opposition to the more popular euro stuff. i was looking at mosca's done me wrong and bax as well - done me wrong samples AVH's remix of cj bolland, bax is supposedly named after the owner (or someone like that?) of niche. for the kind of nights i was going to, these were probably the 2 biggest tunes in the clubs in 2011, and they both continue respective sounds with overt references to tracks made 10 years or so earlier. kahn and neek's percy might come into it too. as you say it's not "haunting" enough to fit in with the hauntology stuff, and i'd like to think there's more to it than just like a postmodern nostalgia mode.
but these examples maybe don't fit as well as this 130 stuff does, because mosca jumps ship every release, and bok bok's turned mainly to techno stuff now. they're obviously not within this scene or anythin either, im just makin the point that this rejection of the present in favour of building on an old story has been present in the more obvious places of some recent uk stuff too. lookin forward to checkin the mixes and if there's any more along the lines of what Crary is sayin about rejection of present i'd be interested to be pointed in tht direction

CrowleyHead
05-03-2013, 01:26 PM
Well, to throw in some more details towards "Percy" as an example, I am a dork enough that I bought the Gorgon Sound Grime Mixtape they put out, and as I was playing the tape, I realize I was buying fake grime nostalgia as many of the segments were youtube rips. I was literally going over in my head "This is from grimetapes... This is from youtube... This is that Wiley EPK thing, fuck." It was fine, because I wanted to hear grime at cassette speed/tone anyway, which I might not get to until I can afford to go into total Fanboy mode and buy those off eBay, but if anything, this product is more of an example of the Kahn & Neek nostalgia moreso than even their own tunes.

NKC
05-03-2013, 06:48 PM
Well, to throw in some more details towards "Percy" as an example, I am a dork enough that I bought the Gorgon Sound Grime Mixtape they put out, and as I was playing the tape, I realize I was buying fake grime nostalgia as many of the segments were youtube rips. I was literally going over in my head "This is from grimetapes... This is from youtube... This is that Wiley EPK thing, fuck." It was fine, because I wanted to hear grime at cassette speed/tone anyway, which I might not get to until I can afford to go into total Fanboy mode and buy those off eBay, but if anything, this product is more of an example of the Kahn & Neek nostalgia moreso than even their own tunes.

yeh, well that tape thing for me is the point where it seems to go from like a potential comment on/resistance to current culture to a more problematic case of someone making money from somethin they werent really part of.. which is the way it sorta seems with mosca because of how he doesn't stick at a particular sound

huffafc
05-03-2013, 09:11 PM
im just makin the point that this rejection of the present in favour of building on an old story has been present in the more obvious places of some recent uk stuff too.

definitely, i'd say what i'll call alternative-history music - like bok bok or kahn and neek making grime from an alternative timeline 2004 - is pretty pervasive in uk dance music. (and it's not an inherently bad thing - just a common way of working today.) the line between a one-off reference and a deep dedication to carry on the promise/drive/etc of a past movement is very blurry.

there's two kinds of dangers that I see - on the one hand, there's straight revivalism or nostalgia (you know, basically anything that smacks of wynton marsalis). in that case, the music trades on a kind of 'it was better than nostalgia' and/or functioning as a kind of musical comfort food. on the other hand, there's the glib reference, that's also trades on a kind of nostalgia, throwing in some signifiers for an older genre, doing a banal pastiche etc.

it's definitely not the artists the sound the most like the music of their chosen past moment that are the most interesting - i like the fact that facta doesn't 'get it right' - but the ones who manage to find the ways that those past moments are still open-ended, not yet totally determined, spaces, with other routes not yet taken. at their best, that's what these 130 guys seem to have found in early 00's grime/dubstep.


if there's any more along the lines of what Crary is sayin about rejection of present i'd be interested to be pointed in tht direction

Crary's kind of paraphrasing Benjamin there - so definitely Benjamin's essay on Surrealism. It's an idea is present in different ways pretty much across the Frankfurt school - I'd say the best round up of this issue within the work of the Frankfurt crew is Frederic Jameson's Marxism and Form.

Blackdown
05-03-2013, 10:53 PM
for the record, while i think it's easy to say "oh this references old grime" and "oh that references early dubstep" - like they fit into some convenient trope - what i'm often looking for in tracks to play and release are ones that have values from several of those lineages, such that it becomes hard to say exactly what stops and starts where. (walton cool it VIP for example: eski? funky? bass? house?)

and hence from that mutation/blend, this is where new unique forms come from. i mean people just said "oh early '00s dubstep it's just garage but darker, there's no unique form there" but with enough blending, blurring and mutations there soon was. visionist started out making grime, now i dont know what he makes (in a good way) - but i like it.

i feel we're just at that grow/blend/mutate phase now - and it's exciting.

trilliam
05-03-2013, 11:25 PM
i feel we're just at that grow/blend/mutate phase now - and it's exciting.

this been going on like three years fam

now its 130
year before 160/watchamacallit/intellistep
year before post dubstep

man r just noodling tbh

Blackdown
06-03-2013, 09:28 AM
cool cool, this is a marmite thing, this wont be for everyone - that's just fine.

jimitheexploder
06-03-2013, 09:37 AM
It does seem like its all been building up from about 2007/2008/2009 for me ever since things started to split in the scene more. Its just a natural progression from all of that stuff like... Quarta 330, Joker, Darkstar, Shorstuff, Rustie, Untold, Hessle, Hemlock, Hyperdub. Look at the tracks from those years and beyond and you can easily see the thru lines. Damu and Emma have that Darkstar, Zomby, Samiyam, Rustie, Joker, Desto colourful syrupy thing going on, etc. You can hear the same eski influence at 130 in early Shortstuff, he even sampled Wiley for one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_chmtiMQMk0). Untold did that house/eski EP on Hemlock with Stop What You're doing on it. But yeah there does seem to be a nice new focus from it of late with Keysound really bringing it together more, there is still a load going on outside of it but Keysound are really building momentum and drawing things together in their own way and its sounding wicked.

jimitheexploder
06-03-2013, 10:13 AM
On another tip...

Is Damu still making that colourful stuff?

The last 12" was pretty nice but it was on a kind of XXXY, Artifact tip that chunky housey thing. Wasn't quiet as unique as his album or EPs before for me.

tom lea
06-03-2013, 02:59 PM
The last 12" was pretty nice but it was on a kind of XXXY, Artifact tip that chunky housey thing. Wasn't quiet as unique as his album or EPs before for me.

yeah, he just needs to finish it. there's quite a few vocal collabs in the pipeline.

jimitheexploder
06-03-2013, 03:04 PM
Sweet

Vic Serotonin
07-03-2013, 12:15 AM
It does seem like its all been building up from about 2007/2008/2009 for me ever since things started to split in the scene more. Its just a natural progression from all of that stuff like... Quarta 330, Joker, Darkstar, Shorstuff, Rustie, Untold, Hessle, Hemlock, Hyperdub. Look at the tracks from those years and beyond and you can easily see the thru lines. Damu and Emma have that Darkstar, Zomby, Samiyam, Rustie, Joker, Desto colourful syrupy thing going on, etc. You can hear the same eski influence at 130 in early Shortstuff, he even sampled Wiley for one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_chmtiMQMk0). Untold did that house/eski EP on Hemlock with Stop What You're doing on it. But yeah there does seem to be a nice new focus from it of late with Keysound really bringing it together more, there is still a load going on outside of it but Keysound are really building momentum and drawing things together in their own way and its sounding wicked.

Absolutely, things were already brewing for sure. Pinch (Croydon House), Cooly G (pretty much anything off the Dub Organizer EPs), and Ramadanman/Pearson Sound (Blimey, PLSN/WAD) all jump to mind too. And thanks for pointing out that Shortstuff tune Jim, I hadn't heard it before, it's a beaut.

Blackdown
07-03-2013, 06:23 AM
Can't forget the whole uk funky wave...

jimitheexploder
07-03-2013, 09:01 AM
Of course. I mean in 08 you could get quality funky on vinyl even. Pretty sure I've got: Geeneus - Volumes: One, D Malice - The Refix E.P., Roska - The Climate Change EP, DJ NG Feat. Katy B & MC Versatile - Tell Me, Hard House Banton - Siren EP, Apple (6) - Siegalizer, Lil Silva - Seasons / Funky Flex, Mentor Roska* - Feeline / Boxed In, Roska - Elevated Levels, Perempay & Dee - Buss It / Hypnotic, Kode9 vs. LD* - Bad / 2 Bad. All from 08. And most of that is pretty dark too. Dark funky has always been there, I think people get to caught up in the breezyness of some of it to realise that a lot of the best early stuff was real dark and tuff.

trilliam
07-03-2013, 11:26 AM
Of course. I mean in 08 you could get quality funky on vinyl even. Pretty sure I've got: Geeneus - Volumes: One, D Malice - The Refix E.P., Roska - The Climate Change EP, DJ NG Feat. Katy B & MC Versatile - Tell Me, Hard House Banton - Siren EP, Apple (6) - Siegalizer, Lil Silva - Seasons / Funky Flex, Mentor Roska* - Feeline / Boxed In, Roska - Elevated Levels, Perempay & Dee - Buss It / Hypnotic, Kode9 vs. LD* - Bad / 2 Bad. All from 08. And most of that is pretty dark too. Dark funky has always been there, I think people get to caught up in the breezyness of some of it to realise that a lot of the best early stuff was real dark and tuff.

this one


THIS ONE..

theres a very big difference between say hardhouse banton reign and beneath

jimitheexploder
07-03-2013, 12:42 PM
Buss It is too good.

There is a difference yeah. But not much of a jump from the grimy strings of D Malice and Apple or the grimy bleeps of Lil Silva. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to add a load of spaced out sub bass and flip the energy a little or techno it up a bit like Kowton has done. Cooly G kind of sits in the middle of the two strians with ease. It aint much of a jump at all in sound. If there was much pure funky going on anymore some of it might get plays there. Bad did at the time, Citizen Dub by Bok Bok did at the time, Claptrap by Joe did a little later on. Plus all that 08 funky is really dark and raw when played next to like proper house music. Playing it at the time in clubs when people didn't know much about it outside of London, people thought you where playing grime or dubstep not a hosue music variant.

Webstarr
07-03-2013, 06:08 PM
I think some of the stuff we released on Forefront last year falls into this category, particularly the Grievous Angel 12"

jimitheexploder
07-03-2013, 06:56 PM
J Beatz and prob Mella Dee too, Hell Slackk and NKC n'all.

Vic Serotonin
07-03-2013, 07:38 PM
I think some of the stuff we released on Forefront last year falls into this category, particularly the Grievous Angel 12"

Yesssss! I've got a lot of love for his output from last year.

Blackdown
07-03-2013, 07:52 PM
got Rinse this friday (tomorrow) from 11pm if people are up for it. Such a strong month for music too...

Vic Serotonin
07-03-2013, 08:01 PM
Speaking of Grievous, he's released an LHF Tribute Mix.

http://www.grievousangel.net/GAMixes/LHF_Tribute_mix_cover_2.jpg

http://www.grievousangel.net/GAMixes/Tribute_to_LHF_mix_Grievous_Angel.mp3

edit: He was kind enough to share a tracklist too:

0:00 Intro: Chopperz
0:10 No Fixed Abode (LHF) - Strangelands
0:58 Double Helix (LHF) - LDN
5:52 Grievous Angel - Kroma (Forthcoming Devotional Dubz)
7:40 Amen Ra and Double Helix (LHF) - Steelz
10:34 Double Helix (LHF) - Chamber Of Light
15:21 Grievous Angel - Girl U Know It's Dub (Devotional Dubz dubplate)
20:11 Double Helix feat Low Density Matter (LHF) - Rush
21:07 Low Density Matter (LHF) - Blue Steel
26:28 Grievous Angel - Over U (Devotional Dubz dubplate)
29:35 Double Helix (LHF) - Bass 2 Dark
31:45 Dom - Blakelock (Grievous Angel Roller Remix)
35:38 Double Helix (LHF) - Inferno
39:12 Double Helix (LHF) - Supreme Architecture
40:29 White Buffalo - Fire (Grievous Angel Remix)
43:13 Double Helix (LHF) - Deep Life
49:39 Grievous Angel - Harpy VIP (Keysound Dubplate)
52:56 Amen Ra feat Double Helix (LHF) - Broken Glass
57:11 Low Density Matter (LHF) - Questions

stephenk
11-03-2013, 03:39 AM
anyone got a link to the keysound christmas special? the link on blackdown's blog is dead...

whytea
27-03-2013, 12:07 PM
http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/magazine/blackdown-interview

sick interview with Blackdown

new loefah:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TsRJCUmYMM

belong here? thoughts?

Elijah
27-03-2013, 12:41 PM
Ok Blackdown see ya!

I started my last Rinse FM show (http://podcast.dgen.net/rinsefm/podcast/ElijahSkilliam240313.mp3) at 130 and I played the Wen bootleg of Dizzee.

From 130 to 140 to Newham Generals MCing in the 2nd hour. I'd say around 80% of the material is unreleased or came out in the last few weeks.

Blackdown
27-03-2013, 01:23 PM
Ok Blackdown see ya!

we meet at last sir! you pitch your shit down, we'll pitch ours up and then its on!

NOSY
27-03-2013, 11:15 PM
That Loefah tune is shite. It sounds like something he made years ago but at 130. Even the same bass riff, c'mon man. I was hoping for something more relevant to what he is pushing in his sets and on Swamp.

Nice interview with Blackdown.

Roshman
28-03-2013, 09:32 AM
That Loefah tune is shite. It sounds like something he made years ago but at 130. Even the same bass riff, c'mon man. I was hoping for something more relevant to what he is pushing in his sets and on Swamp.

That's what I was hoping for. Given that in previous interviews he talked about never being happy with anything he made after "Root/Goat Stare" it seems odd to put out what sounds like a remake of "Mud".

jackjambie
28-03-2013, 10:58 AM
oh shit yea that new loefah's got some fucking balls on it haha! sick. sounds nice and slow and punchy at 130, i think it works really well...hard.

Vic Serotonin
28-03-2013, 10:59 PM
Ok Blackdown see ya!

I started my last Rinse FM show (http://podcast.dgen.net/rinsefm/podcast/ElijahSkilliam240313.mp3) at 130 and I played the Wen bootleg of Dizzee.

From 130 to 140 to Newham Generals MCing in the 2nd hour. I'd say around 80% of the material is unreleased or came out in the last few weeks.

Got this on the DL, big up!

Couple of big interviews/mixes from Epoch and Underclass here:

http://night-tracks.blogspot.co.nz/2013/03/epoch-interview-guest-mix.html

http://hedmuk.blogspot.co.nz/2013/03/featuring-underclass.html

paolo
30-03-2013, 09:51 AM
Yeah that Loefah tune is a bit meh. I've noticed quite a few producers making tracks that are basically d&b at 130. Could be time for a d&b revival maybe, or something

paolo
30-03-2013, 09:53 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ASkHlMIYeDI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This one's big

Sectionfive
30-03-2013, 05:19 PM
http://soundcloud.com/45hz-blog/45hzinf001-wen

Corpsey
30-03-2013, 07:25 PM
Yeah that Loefah tune is a bit meh. I've noticed quite a few producers making tracks that are basically d&b at 130. Could be time for a d&b revival maybe, or something

Who needs a D&B revival? Jungle revival please.

I'm quite feeling that Tessela guy's tunes.

Vic Serotonin
30-03-2013, 10:56 PM
Who needs a D&B revival? Jungle revival please.

I'm quite feeling that Tessela guy's tunes.

Etch has been doing sterling work on the ~130/Jungle front. Scattah is the one, can't find a clip unfortunately.

https://soundcloud.com/d9kabloowww/sphynx-dusk-blackdown-rinse-fm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MmPT2xtlr4

http://buy-etch-some-clothes.bandcamp.com/

And Sully's been doing 'em at full speed:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FLzmlVozYI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdejuMFVpZ8

rubberdingyrapids
31-03-2013, 07:58 AM
this is how we roll is interesting though the first half is the best - it is studied etc, but still good imo. not going to be a new funky or anything but it reminds me a lot of older, early post-garage/pre-halftime dubstep. i wouldnt have minded a whole album of wen/visionist/samrai/beneath to be honest. its strange how well they all fit with each other.

Blackdown
01-04-2013, 08:33 AM
^ Big up! I like the dark flex, it was needed but I worry that if we only released the dark stuff things might get a bit... limited or monochrome.

Secundus
07-04-2013, 03:26 PM
the latest barely legal mix has a lot of this stuff in the first half https://soundcloud.com/dj-barely-legal/daily-dose-mix-26th-1xtra
really good. like classic grime but with this weird kind of lurch to it

said
10-04-2013, 12:41 AM
yo so no-one's posted this on dissensus yet i think, but jam city uploaded a load of old (09-11) bits from him (http://www.sendspace.com/file/0c3k62 & http://www.sendspace.com/file/mni6by) i hadnt thought about the old jam city in ages, but pretty remarkable to me how prescient it is w/ regards to the new 130 wave. (has this been pointed out before? i saw blackdown rt'd jam citys fact mix today.)

tangentially also noteworthy, tho probs not more than that, that reynolds commented on jam city's studiousness at the time [fact mix/interview was 09] in much the same way that people have been griping a bit about beneath et al.

in the park - huge percy

NKC
15-04-2013, 06:26 PM
think this is relevant as this thread is on a throwback tip-
finding it a bit weird how much early dubstep is coming back, the new loefah one and now roska and pinch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkDG2EeSwn4

not a fan, this and the loefah one sound EXACTLY the same as the early stuff

rubberdingyrapids
16-04-2013, 10:32 AM
a lot of this stuff i do like but i think it would slot in pretty easily into a set of old early dubstep. im thinking mainly of wen, visionist, beneath etc.

wise
16-04-2013, 04:04 PM
a lot of this stuff i do like but i think it would slot in pretty easily into a set of old early dubstep. im thinking mainly of wen, visionist, beneath etc.

Thats the whole point / what the producers are aiming at isn't it? or did I miss something

wise
16-04-2013, 04:37 PM
a lot of this stuff i do like but i think it would slot in pretty easily into a set of old early dubstep. im thinking mainly of wen, visionist, beneath etc.

Thats the whole point / what the producers are aiming at isn't it? or did I miss something

jorge
21-04-2013, 09:09 PM
mix for Pinch's new label Cold Recording, sounding really nice, Ive listened twice already. Bit more of a techno-y angle than the keysound stuff, kind off like the Livity sound stuff which I also really like.

www.soundcloud.com/cold-recordings/pinch-mix-for-cold-recordings/s-Z2uvm

Perhaps its not the right thread to ask but has anyone got any recomendations for similar stuff to Livity Sound?

Does soundcloud embedding not work on here? cant work it out

Vic Serotonin
22-04-2013, 04:12 AM
Wow, this is the first I'd heard about Pinch starting a new label. Thanks for the heads up Jorge, that mix sounds tight.

Re. Livity-esque stuff, I'd highly recommend Rhythmic Theory's latest, the b-side, 'Riveted', almost sounds like a Beneath tune.

https://soundcloud.com/rhythmictheory/rhythmic-theory-riveted-1

Hodge's EP for Deadplate as well maybe?

https://soundcloud.com/deadplaterecords/dpl004-hodge-dusted-ep-clips

jorge
22-04-2013, 12:52 PM
Yeah I only saw it yesterday when rob booth posted it on facebook. Looking forward to seeing what coming out.

Cheers for the links, really feeling the hodge ones.

Another Bristol producer to watch out for is Ziro, this one is massive and ridiculously good on a system. Also on a techier tip which is how I like it, dunno if it quite fits the vibe of this thread but its good to keep things diverse. He hasn't got many tunes online but Ive been following his stuff for a few years now and hes got some serious skills, looking forward to seeing what else hes got coming


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EadzRp3mCFs

Roshman
23-04-2013, 01:50 PM
I hear there's a Keysound TIHWR Vol. 2 in the works. Is this true?

Blackdown
23-04-2013, 03:19 PM
not another "this is how we roll" but...

keysound allstars 2

A1 etch "scattah"
A2 walton "homage"
B1 visionist "from a place"
B2 fresh paul "sunblazed"

LDN037 12" and digital. out may 28th.

huffafc
23-04-2013, 03:33 PM
here are the two tracks on cold recordings first release:
http://youtu.be/4uIwRaCILqY


http://youtu.be/1aWD8JEg5X4

hmm, my first reaction - 'shadows on the moon' has a plunging bass and syncopation that connects it to some of the same dark ukg/early dubstep roots as the keysnd crew, but the reverbed keys and vocals are a little slick/'big room techno'
and despite that staccato, screeching synth bit and taking a couple unexpected turns, 'baton rouge' also has this overlay of big somber pads that makes it really smooooth
and in both cases the connection with the dark, rugged, weirdness of the best keysnd becomes more tenuous...

...


not another "this is how we roll" but...

keysound allstars 2

A1 etch "scattah"
A2 walton "homage"
B1 visionist "from a place"
B2 fresh paul "sunblazed"

LDN037 12" and digital. out may 28th.

yes!

Vic Serotonin
28-04-2013, 06:41 AM
Visionist killing it in the mix for DIS mag:

http://dismagazine.com/disco/mixes/44171/visionist-only-eye/

This review says it all really:

"This Visionist mix is the one. Really feels like he’s picked up where the Hyperdub compilation left off in 2009, when grime, dubstep and funky were all winding to each other, before the whole “UK Bass”/808 thing got real concrete.

This feels sharp and UK; synthy while still being grimy, house tempo but still rhythmically complex. Its rough and abrasive but there are beautiful edges, real fem pressure, running through it (that MssngNo Brandy remix!), and it really feels like he’s tying the different strands of the UK together in a way that hasn’t really happened for awhile. So much of what I’ve loved from the last few years turns up here. R’n’b diva mashups, 130bpm battle flex and edged out vocal clips battle OG grime bruk outs and b-line strikes. There’s no big room hype tunes, no trap, he’s just got a sound and he’s pushing things fwd."

Tracklist

Dentist – OHD#
Visionist – More Pain
Fatima Al Qadiri – Hip Hop Spa (Nguzunguzu Remix)
Zomby – Digital Fauna
Dot Rotten – Third Eye
MssingNo – Casoxy 2(5)
Visionist – P.W.O.A.W.
Mr Mitch – Nico
Acre – I Lost Everything
LOL Gulrz x 5kin And Bone5 – Love You
Fantastic Mr Fox – If I
?&? – Temptation
Zomby – Riding With Death
MssingNo – Brandy
Visionist – Patience
Shy One – Black Widow
Visionist – Stickz & Stonez
Kowton – Sketch 1
Filter Dread – Burner
Acre – Malta Kano
Visionist – Restless
Visionist – Only Eye
Ciara/Young Dot (Total Freedom Edit) – Promise/Real Talk
Zomby – Haunted
Dot Rotten ft Fugi – Best of Me
Biggie Dan – DTM Gome Mad VIP
??? – Bone
Dot Rotten – The Circle
DJ Oddz (Visionist – Crying Angels Mix) – Champion remix/vip

https://soundcloud.com/dismagazine/visionist-only-eye/s-eckuO

Wen's also been at it with an 'influences' mix for 45HZ, don't think it's been posted here yet. Makes for a pretty enjoyable listen, particularly as he splices freestyles, bits of radio chatter, and album skits in, and traces quite a few of the same lines of continuity that we've been discussing in this thread:

http://45hertzofbass.com/2013/03/29/45hzinf001-wen/

01. L-Wiz - Egyptic
02. Trim - The Low-Dan
03. Dot Rotten - Rowdy Riddim
04. Logan Sama 'Skepta V Ghetto' 2008 - Skepta Freestyle
05. Wiley - The Game
06. El-B - Amazon
07. Markone - Rage
08. Tinchy Stryder - Desert Storm
09. Synkro - Connected
10. Dusk + Blackdown - (Keysound Radio)
11. Terror Danjah - S.O.S
12. Geeneus Ft. Riko, Wiley & Breeze - Knife & Gun (Blackdown Devil Mix / Remix)
13. Kryptic Minds - Distant
14. TGS - On Tha Run (Horsepower Productions Remix)
15. Pinch - Croydon House
16. Visionist - Sodium
17. Cooly G - Narst
18. Sully - Let You
19. Pearson Sound - Footloose
20. Dusk + Blackdown - (Keysound Rain)
21. Bonobo - Recurring

https://soundcloud.com/45hz-blog/45hzinf001-wen

Think I've posted this on here before, but it seemed apt to throw in a Beneath mix as well. All hail the new dub.

http://www.thedailystreet.co.uk/2012/11/tds-mix-029-beneath/

01. Beneath – Me & You Remix
02. Beneath – Bellz
03. Hagan – Aburi Mountain
04. Brunks – Circus
05. Hagan – Malfunktion
06. Alex Coulton – Too Much Talk (Beneath’s 350 Remix)
07. Kahn & Neek – Backchat
08. Hodge – Turmoil (Kowton Remix)
09. Beneath – Send
10. Alex Coulton – Candy Flip
11. Beneath – Rough
12. Alex Coulton – Bleep Sequence
13. Beneath – Duty
14. Beneath – Prangin

https://soundcloud.com/thedailystreet/tds-mix-029-beneath/s-57Wi6

paolo
28-04-2013, 10:43 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1E4_hF0qPpc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Kowton is so awesome. This could probably fit it the house/techno thread as well. Comes with a super remix from Karenn

huffafc
28-04-2013, 02:15 PM
Kowton is so awesome. This could probably fit it the house/techno thread as well. Comes with a super remix from Karenn


yeah, saw the hessle night at output a couple weeks back - and between tfb, his remix of fuck you all the time, and that pearson sound des bisous/gabryelle refix blend, his tracks were major highlights throughout the night. and sounded so good on that system.

Blackdown
28-04-2013, 08:09 PM
United Vibez (Amen Ra & Vibezin) Keysound retrospective right now: http://www.sub.fm/chat/ and http://www.sub.fm/listen/

wise
29-05-2013, 11:03 AM
listening to Keysound Allstars 2, first couple of tracks are pretty good but someone really needs to take Visionist's reverb vst away and slap his wrists, wishy washy

said
20-07-2013, 12:48 PM
it's been pretty sleepy in here recently, but there's brilliant new cold recordings stuff from dissensus' own batu (phaedo) - out to you omar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lamwzd2fCcg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwNSPnRCzeU

https://soundcloud.com/cold-recordings/batu-cold-mix

^^ some unreleased bits from various moody luminaries in there

Blackdown
22-07-2013, 01:33 PM
Bigup Batu, did not know he was a Dissensian too!

Nativ
24-07-2013, 06:00 PM
yh that batu release and mix are hard.

Blackdown
27-07-2013, 06:50 AM
Listen to the e.m.m.a. album here: http://www.factmag.com/2013/07/25/stream-keysound-newcomer-e-m-m-a-s-vibrant-debut-album-blue-gardens/

CrowleyHead
27-07-2013, 01:35 PM
T'was good sur.

benjybars
27-07-2013, 11:38 PM
it's been pretty sleepy in here recently, but there's brilliant new cold recordings stuff from dissensus' own batu (phaedo) - out to you omar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lamwzd2fCcg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwNSPnRCzeU

https://soundcloud.com/cold-recordings/batu-cold-mix

^^ some unreleased bits from various moody luminaries in there

been battering this mix!

NOSY
31-07-2013, 12:06 PM
it's been pretty sleepy in here recently, but there's brilliant new cold recordings stuff from dissensus' own batu (phaedo) - out to you omar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lamwzd2fCcg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwNSPnRCzeU

https://soundcloud.com/cold-recordings/batu-cold-mix

^^ some unreleased bits from various moody luminaries in there

More to do with Techno than the "130" thing lets be honest

said
31-07-2013, 09:58 PM
More to do with Techno than the "130" thing lets be honest

definitely big techno influence but imo the mix sails straight between uk/hardcore continuum styles and techno... there's a bunch of beneath dubs, commodo on deep medi, cooly g as well as oni ayhun, stl etc

think you can hear that in the tunes too tbh

Blackdown
01-08-2013, 04:05 PM
there's a bunch of beneath dubs...

that beneath's a bit of a wasteman tbh, outright joker, blatantly trying to "do the next chase & status/pendulum". good job he's not a tho dissensian eh...

said
01-08-2013, 04:43 PM
that beneath's a bit of a wasteman tbh, outright joker, blatantly trying to "do the next chase & status/pendulum". good job he's not a tho dissensian eh...

username clocked loooooool

rubberdingyrapids
05-08-2013, 11:23 PM
not hearing what all the reviews are hearing in the EMMA album... do like a handful of songs near the end and there's nothing wrong with it per se, but it seems like something that should/could have easily come out around 2009/2010 (is it already time for a 2010 revival?) - i dont hear very much thats truly distinct about it. also, rebel mc's vocals totally ruin an otherwise good track. ugh.

Elijah
14-08-2013, 07:12 AM
http://31.media.tumblr.com/8c3d4a2b2d655dcee6b7729da8c70519/tumblr_mrhadyhhU11qbb7z8o1_500.jpg (http://butterzrecords.bigcartel.com/)

5 Classic Keysounds for a tenner. Get on it while stocks last. Here (http://butterzrecords.bigcartel.com/)

Blackdown
07-09-2013, 10:39 AM
Keysound Sessions 2 ft us, Logos, LHF & Facta, hosted by Katja https://www.facebook.com/events/223679544456235/

glasshand
25-09-2013, 10:18 AM
i liked Adam Harper's roundup of 2013 where he saw the keysound stuff as kind of the other side of the coin to the recent night slugs stuff -

http://www.dummymag.com/features/essay-meanwhile-in-the-uk-s-dance-underground

these two bits made sense to me...

"Keysound is exploring the circa 130bpm zone and highlighting a number of emerging producers there, but it nonetheless feels like every track they release is a unique marriage of high quality and a burning-edge inventiveness lying beyond the reach of those old maps, the ones that marked out “dubstep”, “grime” and “funky”. One way of looking at much of the stuff on and around this Keysound vibe might be as a darker version of the Jam City / Helix / L-Vis 1990 / Hysterics sound: just as interested in heavy syncopation at all layers, unusual timbres and sound effects and disjointed textures composed of several separate elements appearing in sequence, but preferring subtlety and UK dread to robo-athletic energy."

"In other words, it’s a polyrhythm squeezing as many as five evenly spaced sonic events into four ticks of the metronome (it’s not always the full five, often it’s just the first two or three, or just 1, 3 and 5, and so on) but with the straight “four” component practically absent. In some ways it’s the opposite of pure house, a sort of anti-house, separating all the “funky” syncopation out from “funky house”, flattening its alternation onto single, repeating timbres (pitched or percussive alike), and discarding the straight “house” beat."

with visionist's mix going up on Dis magazine alongside that one from hysterics, and releasing stuff on lit city, whose releases are on a similar tip to fade to mind, the connection seems to be there. something like mumdance and logos in reverse http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0D9rzN7LFs sounds to me almost like it could have come out on night slugs too.

http://www.factmag.com/2013/09/02/fact-mix-398-visionist/

Neana deserves a mention here as well i think. his tracks have been played out loads by the night slugs lot recently, but also by visionist and others. he's got similarities to the past-looking of beneath/keysound lot, but less of the subtlety - more intense. like taking old grime tunes into the future on bowkat 8 bar and his dizzee refix -

https://soundcloud.com/neanatrax

https://soundcloud.com/bsr-guest-mixes/neana-guest-mix-for-brother

whytea
26-09-2013, 01:11 AM
loving this, especially Kobra

https://soundcloud.com/badimup/bdmup005

Blackdown
25-10-2013, 04:41 PM
Big week for us in this camp...

Sunday: Butterz v Keysound on Rinse 7-9pm. Elijah & Skilliam, Dusk + me v Wen v Logos + Mumdance v Luke Benjamin v Moleskin v Parris. E.m.m.a. on studio vibes.

Thurs: me & Dusk on Rinse by ourselves, 11-1am.

Friday: Butterz & Keysound at Fabric. Dusk + me, Wen, Logos, Rabit, Mumdance, Luke Benjamin, Moleskin, Parris. Hosted by Katja.

Mumdance & Logos "Genesis EP" http://boomkat.com/vinyl/830944-mumdance-logos-genesis-ep

Fresh Facta mix: https://soundcloud.com/stampthewax/bristol-spotlight-facta

Goon Club Allstars Mssngno EP: https://soundcloud.com/goon-club-allstars/sets/mssingno-ep-2

(later) Mssngno EP launch party: https://www.facebook.com/events/488714567902502/?ref=3&ref_newsfeed_story_type=regular

(later) E.m.m.a. starts her own night with E.m.m.a. Etch, Sully, LV, Parris, DLVRY: https://www.facebook.com/events/410660752393928/?ref=22

paolo
26-11-2013, 08:17 PM
Beneath's new single comes with a No Symbols fridge magnet. It's also ace

jimitheexploder
08-01-2014, 03:48 PM
For some reason I've only just now caught up with Lost Codes Visionists label, jeez. The SD Laika is insane. They've got a release coming on Tri Angle in the near future, so looking forward to that.

https://soundcloud.com/lostcodes/lc-001-sd-laika-unknown

Some one called Brood Ma is pretty insane and reminds me of that stuff too, but even odder, no idea if it could be tamed into something for the dance floor.

https://soundcloud.com/broodma/sets/f-i-s-s-i-o-n

Can't get Murlo's stuff out of my head, sounds like he should soundtrack Far Cry 3.

jimitheexploder
08-01-2014, 06:51 PM
Madness.

paolo
27-04-2014, 02:50 PM
This SD Laika album is really something