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droid
22-08-2013, 12:06 PM
Looks like someone has definitively crossed the line. Some horrific stuff here. I haven't even had the heart to view half of the vids:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/08/visual-evidence-syrias-poison-gas-attack-overwhelming-and-disturbing/68586/

I'd noticed that the CW clamour had died down after some conflicting evidence came to light and the a rebel group started decapitating priests on video, but this is the real deal.

padraig (u.s.)
22-08-2013, 02:08 PM
yeah no good words, just brutal

unfortunately still doubt it will spur any useful intl action beyond condemnation, esp absent of knowing who exactly did it, which may not be forthcoming any time soon if ever

whoever did it, smacks of potential false flag, get the other side condemned. monstrous stuff obviously.

droid
22-08-2013, 02:11 PM
I'm struggling to see what 'meaningful intervention' would even look like. Large scale Arab and UN military mission to divide the country and impose a peace deal?

droid
22-08-2013, 02:24 PM
FFS


Filthpig DnbThe story is bullshit. Why ? It's the SAME pictures they've been using in Iraq and Libya years ago. Stop listening to the war mongering news channels and papers. And ppl fall for it hook line and sinker each and every time. The same as that picture of 'supposedly' dead children lying in a Syrian street two years ago, which was discovered that they were not even dead, they were sleeping children in Iraq, and then computer generated into a street with fake blood etc all over them.

Show the actual proof, but they cannot because there isn't any. Again like that so-called chemical attack a few months ago. Was found out no chemical attack took place it was all for the cameras. Enough with this bullshit. Stop believing terrorists ffs.

Filthpig Dnb Use your brain, not what the fearstream media want to incite fs.
about an hour ago · Like

Filthpig Dnb Exactly it's a GAME, a very sick game. Fuck the Russians, they're jut as responsible., Best looking after yourself because when it really kicks off, no-one is going to help or save you, me or anyone. The takeover has well and truly begun.

Filthpig Dnb NOW YOUR GETTING IT Al Neale. It isn't the world, it's HOLLYWOOD reporting it. Research on how CNN/NBC/BBC make up news stories. Why do you think Hollywood studios own all the major news networks. And before you say anything the BBC IS a film studio. It's all a con, you hardly get any real news anywhere these days, it's all manipulated and created to garner a reaction so that 'they' can go in and attack, kill, murder whoever they want...all for our entertainment on the news. But first they have to create FEAR !

Filthpig Dnb Who in their fucking right mind would film dead kids and put it on tv all day long. only sick fucks would do such a thing. Remember it's all to garner a reaction. Reaction causes anger, hatred, ppl not thinking straight and making decisions they cannot think on properly - and it's causes bad energy.

That's not to say children don't get killed, they do get killed, but this story - isn't true, like all the others over the last 2-3 years. Always look for the tell-tale signs. What is the story, who is it for, and what will it accomplish ? you'll find most news stories are not stories at all they're actually 'coded messages' not meant for us. But that's a different kettle of fish for another day.

I'm sure that American story is bullshit. His surname is BURKE. He's telling the viewers 'you're all stupid'. it's all to create fear, get them popping pills, and committing suicide ?

Filthpig Dnb Warning ? it's been here for 6 years already ! There's fuck all you me can do about it. Why ? Because the banks are going to take EVERYONE'S MONEY. Last year's Ulster Bank fiasco was a dry run.

You're going to have to do what I did Al, you're going to have to research yourself. In this game there is no hand holding, you have to discover this yourself.

Filthpig Dnb They want you to think 1200 ppl died. Bullshit. The numbers never lie. it always boils down to numbers.... Nobody died imo. Again look to the Balkan war in the 1990's. Same shit happened there.

I'll be more worried with the 'terrorists' getting on the boats pretending they are refugees and landing in Cyprus and Greece and creating havoc there. Because that's what's coming. Greece and Cyprus will become islamist nations (because they've been destroyed by the EU deliberately). Then they'll move south east and connect up with the caucaus nations and along with certain balkan states they'll gang up on Russia (this is why Snowden is there - to distablize Russia as he is a spy not a hero). If Putin isn't removed politically this is what will happen.

There is a major handover coming, and it won't be pretty. To bring in the 'new' you first have to eradicate the 'old'. It's always happened this way throughout history as history repeats itself always.
45 minutes ago · Like

Filthpig Dnb War is entertainment, news entertainment, it's in the news networks interests to keep the ratings high, and the only way to do that is to 'create fear, bullshit and participate in war'.
44 minutes ago · Like

Filthpig Dnb Like in that clip I posted up, one YT replier got it bang on. They're all working together, the real truth is between the lies both the msm and alternative/so-called truth movement are reporting. Trust none of them.
39 minutes ago · Like

Filthpig Dnb I can even tell this BBC report is complete and utter bullshit. It's all to do with 'numbers'.

UK/FRANCE/TURKEY - What do these 3 countries have in common. All 3 have ARMED the Syrian rebels (and in Turkey's case have allowed foreign mercenaries to enter Syria through their borders, kill, then return. Not forgetting allowing Is-Ra-El to launch airstrikes against Syria) and have 'invested interests' to destabilize Syria, because France and the UK have been guilty of destabilizing the entire North African region. There is something 'deeper' going on in Africa, something major 'they' don't want us to know about, otherwise why destabilize the entire north and middle African regions to the point of total collapse.

Mr. Tea
22-08-2013, 03:40 PM
FFS

Have you been looking up our friend lanugo's other online personae?

droid
22-08-2013, 04:32 PM
LOL. No its an old troll from the irishdnb forum talking shit on facebook.

crackerjack
22-08-2013, 09:35 PM
I'm struggling to see what 'meaningful intervention' would even look like. Large scale Arab and UN military mission to divide the country and impose a peace deal?

^^This^^

We're fast enterign the realm of something-must-be-doneism. But what? No-fly zone? Arms to whom? Suspect ideal option for the West is for Assad to stop killing people but remain in charge, but that's looking about as likely as a win for Good Opposition (and we don't even want to think about the bad).

Even all the pro-war types from 03 seem to be doing a lot more told-you-so-ing than actual policy suggestion. (which reminds me... waits for Craner...)

padraig (u.s.)
23-08-2013, 04:51 PM
I'm struggling to see what 'meaningful intervention' would even look like

neither do I tbh, guess what I really meant was it'll inspire a lot basically useless foreign/media bemoaning/condemning

large scale intervention seems fantastically unlikely. neither Arab world nor UN SC could unite enough to undertake one, let alone what Iran would do.

droid
26-08-2013, 02:10 PM
I know it's practically passe by now, but it seems that the US role in Iraq's chemical attacks was less passive than previously thought.... (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/25/secret_cia_files_prove_america_helped_saddam_as_he _gassed_iran)

Sectionfive
27-08-2013, 09:31 PM
The airwaves are full of big talk. Wouldn't it take you back, again.

droid
28-08-2013, 08:35 AM
Cameron is really pushing this. Its his chance to restore credibility to the 'new military humanism' that's been the justification for 'aggressive intervention' since Kosovo.

Listening to Kerry moralising about chemical weapons made me sick into my mouth a little bit.

droid
28-08-2013, 08:36 AM
http://nsnbc.me/2013/06/16/dumas-top-british-officials-confessed-to-syria-war-plans-two-years-before-arab-spring/

I'd say they've had war plans since at least 03/04. Plans, and the opportunity and will to implement them are two different things.

Mr. Tea
24-09-2013, 01:05 PM
Still worrying about who actually used those chemical weapons? Never fear, here's Gorgeous George to put us straight - it was al-Qa'eda, having been supplied by Israel, of course!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_43tTDfedTo&feature=player_embedded

(and then denying he'd ever said any such thing)

crackerjack
24-09-2013, 01:34 PM
Still worrying about who actually used those chemical weapons? Never fear, here's Gorgeous George to put us straight - it was al-Qa'eda, having been supplied by Israel, of course!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_43tTDfedTo&feature=player_embedded

(and then denying he'd ever said any such thing)

Didn't he deny it in the parliamentary debate? Misleading the house, while not uncommon, is a suspension offence, isn't it?

Mr. Tea
24-09-2013, 01:58 PM
Didn't he deny it in the parliamentary debate? Misleading the house, while not uncommon, is a suspension offence, isn't it?

What are you, some kind of ZIONIST APOLOGIST?

IP noted.

craner
24-09-2013, 02:16 PM
He's swung a bit on this, actually. In early March 2011 he was telling us why Syria was the only Arab state not to have had any form of uprising -- the reason was, apparently, because Assad was the Last Standing Arab Lion to resist Israel or something. By the end of that year, when Assad was shelling Syrian citizens, he had reverted to a More In Sorrow Than In Anger tone. By now, of course, he is back on side and then some.

Mind you, I have read one very minor Republican commentator explain that Assad and al-Qaeda are in a secret alliance organised by Iran, so he's not the only one at it.

Mr. Tea
24-09-2013, 02:41 PM
Personally I blame the Isranians.

firefinga
16-12-2016, 05:25 PM
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2016/12/16/Iranian-Revolutionary-Guards-chief-in-Aleppo-Kill-all-those-who-are-still-trapped-.html :poop:

sadmanbarty
16-12-2016, 05:57 PM
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2016/12/16/Iranian-Revolutionary-Guards-chief-in-Aleppo-Kill-all-those-who-are-still-trapped-.html :poop:

Be careful with that sight. If I recall correctly, it's a Saudi state-sponsored thing

sadmanbarty
09-04-2017, 02:27 PM
Sadr becomes first Iraqi Shi'ite leader to urge Assad to step down

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-iraq-syria-sadr-idUSKBN17B070

DannyL
20-06-2017, 09:27 AM
I thought this was quite a profound piece for the way it discusses the psychological effects of living first under repression, then under war.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/03/24/the-surprising-ways-fear-has-shaped-syrias-war/?utm_term=.7f049fc19a6e

The author has a new book out which looks like a must-read: https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062654618/we-crossed-a-bridge-and-it-trembled

DannyL
20-06-2017, 11:05 AM
The problem with reading this stuff is it tends to be fairly harrowing. I cut back on reading a lot of material when I started to dream about it.
One counter to that is to read about the acts of creative expression that the revolution engendered, and the new types of civil society that took place in that newly freed space.
Probably the best site for this material is here: http://www.creativememory.org/?lang=en
I really need to pick up this book on that score: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jan/27/dancing-in-damascus-by-miriam-cooke-review
I may as well C&P the review in full:

The reaction to revolution in Syria was cultural as well as political. Independent radio stations and newspapers blossomed alongside popular poetry and street graffiti. This is a story largely untold in the west: who knew, for instance, of the full houses, despite bombardment, during Aleppo’s theatre festival in 2013?

Dancing in Damascus by Arabist and critic miriam cooke (so she writes her name, uncapitalised) aims to fill the gap, surveying cultural responses to revolution, repression, war and exile. Dancing is construed both as metaphor for collective solidarity – the anarchist Emma Goldman said, “If I can’t dance, it isn’t my revolution” – and as literal practice. At protests, Levantine dabke dance was elevated from folklore to street-level defiance, just as popular songs were transformed into revolutionary anthems.

cooke’s previous work, Dissident Syria, examined the regime’s pre-2011 attempts to defuse oppositional art while giving the impression of tolerance. It would fund films for international screening, for instance, but ban their domestic release. Dancing in Damascus describes how culture slipped the bounds of co-option: increasingly explicit prison novels and memoirs anticipated the uprising; once the protests erupted, “artist activists” engaged in a “politics of insult” and irony. Shredding taboos, the Masasit Mati collective’s Top Goon puppet shows, Ibrahim Qashoush’s songs and Ali Ferzat’s cartoons targeted Bashar al-Assad specifically. “The ability to laugh at the tyrant and his henchmen,” cooke writes, “helps to repair the brokenness of a fearful people.”

As the repression escalated, Syrians posted images of atrocities in the hope they would mobilise solidarity abroad. This failed, but artistic responses to the violence helped transform trauma into “a collective, affective memory responsible to the future”. Explicit representations of “brute physicality and raw emotion”, from mobile phone footage to Samar Yazbek’s literary reportage, soon gave way to formal experimentation. Notable examples include Death is Hard Work, Khaled Khalifa’s Faulknerian novel of a deferred burial; the “bullet films” of the Abounaddara collective and Azza Hamwi’s ironic short film Art of Surviving, about a man who turns spent ordnance into heaters, telephones, even a toilet. “We didn’t paint it,” he tells the camera, “so it stays as it arrived from Russia especially for the Syrian people.” The full-length film Return to Homs follows the transformation of Abdul Baset al-Sarout from star goalkeeper to protest leader to resistance fighter.

This book’s consideration of the role of social media goes deeper than most of the 2011 commentary on the cyber aspects of the Arab Spring. The internet provides activists with anonymity and relative safety. It also offers a space to display and preserve art, even as Syria’s physical heritage, from Aleppo’s mosques to Palmyra’s temples, is demolished by regime bombs and jihadist vandalism. Online gallery sites such as The Creative Memory of the Syrian Revolution archive the uprising’s creative breadth and complexity.

Certain digital images “aestheticise” sites of destruction in order to both to lament and humanise the war. The best known are works by Tammam Azzam, which superimpose Klimt’s The Kiss on a crumbling residential block, Matisse’s circle dancers against a rubble-strewn street and Gauguin’s Tahitian women on a refugee camp.

As an example of refugee theatre created in the youth centres of camps and urban slums, a cross-border Shakespeare production via Skype and featuring Syrian children cast Romeo in Jordan and Juliet in Homs. The performance was completed despite bombs, snipers and frequent communication cuts. The play’s conclusion was optimistically adapted: the doomed lovers threw away their poison and declared, “Enough blood! Why are you killing us? We want to live like the rest of the world!” Euripides’ Trojan Women has been used to talk about the regime’s mass rape campaign. Director Yasmin Fedda incorporated the rehearsals into her prize-winning documentary Queens of Syria.

Dancing in Damascus doesn’t tell the whole story. The book tends to concentrate on “high art”, yet, with admirable concision and fluency, it assists with what journalist Ammar al-Mamoun calls “an alternative revolutionary narrative to contest the media stories of Syrian refugees and victims”. It shows how, despite everything thrown at it, the revolution has democratised moral authority, turning artist activists into the Arab world’s new “organic intellectuals”. As such it is an indispensable corrective to accounts that erase the Syrian people’s agency in favour of grand and often inaccurate geopolitical representations. It is a testament to the essential role of culture anywhere in times of crisis.

Robin Yassin-Kassab is the author of Burning Country: Syrians in Revolution and War.

Mr. Tea
20-06-2017, 12:03 PM
Wow, powerful stuff there. Thanks for that, Dan.

DannyL
22-06-2017, 11:29 AM
What decent foreign policy looks like: https://inews.co.uk/essentials/sport/football/football-opinion/jo-coxs-compassion-syria-no-borders/

Jo understood that the refugee crisis, the humanitarian crisis, and the terrorism threat all stemmed from a single atrocity: Bashar al-Assad’s war against those Syrian civilians who opposed his rule. Jo rejected the suggestion that we “need to make a choice between dealing with either Assad or ISIS”. She recognised that “Assad is ISIS’s biggest recruiting sergeant, and as long as his tyranny continues, so too will ISIS’s terror”. She advocated a comprehensive approach to Syria involving humanitarian, diplomatic, and military measures.

DannyL
22-06-2017, 12:03 PM
This is also a strong piece. An account of what's happening in Aleppo now, after the media gaze has moved on:

http://www.mei.edu/content/article/growing-warlordism-battle-scarred-aleppo

Don't know how aware most casual observers are of the class dynamic to the conflict?

Most accounts of the outbreak of fighting, and the subsequent division of the city, stress the initial class divide between the more urbanite loyalist quarters in the west and popular neighborhoods to the east. While the more affluent residential areas in the west suffered mostly sporadic damage from indiscriminate rebel artillery fire, around 58 percent of popular (sha’bi) residences, primarily in the rebel-held east, have been assessed to be damaged or destroyed.

It's also very good on the complexities of reconstruction and how Iran is extending its influence here.

sadmanbarty
22-06-2017, 06:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA78e27R_J4

DannyL
22-06-2017, 07:33 PM
That's a bit oblique

DannyL
01-09-2017, 02:17 PM
On Struggle, Suffering and Meaning, podcast with extract by Loubna Mrie and Yassin al Haj Saleh.
LM: I completely agree. And I think the movement should be really simple. The aims of any solidarity are extremely simple. You just side with oppressed people, whether they are suffering under ISIS or under the Assad regime, or whether they are suffering under the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen. You cannot be selective in your solidarity. You cannot be selective in siding with one nation, just because your country is supposedly siding against it.
YHS: At the same time, Loubna, it is their duty to criticize us. We are not saying that just because we are victims, we are always right. No. Please listen to us, and criticize us. But respect our humanity. Respect our agency. Don’t lecture us. Don’t impose your agendas on us. We are not telling you to shut up. No. We need you to talk. We need you to advise us, to criticize us, to criticize the narrative of victimhood which is widespread among us Syrians.
We Syrians (and the Palestinians, of course, and in the past, the Jews) have so many victimhood narratives. We have an Alawi narrative, a Kurdish narrative, a Shi’a narrative—and now we have a very active Sunni victimhood narrative, which is interpreted and seized and controlled and exploited by the Salafi jihadis. It is not enough that you are victimized for your ideas, your narratives, your discourse, to be right and fair. No. It is not enough.
Please criticize us. But please understand us. Let’s deal with each other as equals. What we cannot accept at all, under any circumstances, is that you deal with us as inferior to you. We are not inferior to anybody. We are equals. Being equal would mean that it is even okay that you say to me, “You are stupid.” But I will not accept anything from you unless you defend my right to be equal to you.
If you don’t accept a dictatorial regime or an authoritarian regime in your country, why do you expect us to accept one? Why do you think that democracy is a natural state in the US and in France but it is not a natural state for us? This is racism. This is racism, and we cannot accept it.
When you say openly, open-mouthedly, that we are equals, then, as we say in Arabic, ‘ala ‘aini wa raasi, “on my head and on my eyes” [an idiom meaning something like “I am at your service” —ed.]. Then you can criticize us and you can say, “You are stupid and you made this mistake.” But not before that. Not before you say that we are equals, we are brothers, we are equally free human beings

Great discussion - worth reading the whole thing:https://antidotezine.com/2017/08/29/struggle-suffering-meaning/