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View Full Version : Name musicians/bands/producers you've never heard and probably never will hear



Corpsey
04-08-2015, 09:50 PM
Precise 73
Bonobo
Slaves

luka
04-08-2015, 10:31 PM
Anything on that weird pc music thread crowley posts on
Anything on that weird shuffling thread you post on

griftert
04-08-2015, 11:01 PM
The Beatles

CrowleyHead
05-08-2015, 03:47 AM
LCD Soundsystem

Corpsey
05-08-2015, 09:41 AM
I actually had a dream that this thread went well but I woke up and its still a shite idea. I have often thought its interesting (to me) that certain producer names turn me off in some obscure way and lead me to never bothering to listen to them. Although in the case of Bonobo and Prefuse 73, I think I'm dimly aware of what they represent and I'm not having any.

Now let this thread sink into the black depths of the deep web.

rubberdingyrapids
05-08-2015, 12:02 PM
a lot of indie rock bands

Corpsey
05-08-2015, 12:58 PM
Maybe this thread could be good if people started weighing in saying "you haven't heard ___?! TRY THIS FOR STARTERS!"

Or maybe not

griftert
05-08-2015, 01:43 PM
Eh, you should listen to Prefuse 73. Especially One Word Extinguisher

griftert
05-08-2015, 01:44 PM
He done a track with Ghostface.

Corpsey
05-08-2015, 02:16 PM
SOLD!

Corpsey
05-08-2015, 02:24 PM
Now playing One Word Extinguisher. I actually recently heard Flying Lotus's ''Cosmogramma'' for the first time and was surprised by how much I liked that so maybe this thread can be retitled HUMBLE PIE FOR SCUMMY GUY.

Corpsey
05-08-2015, 02:34 PM
Okay, that was pleasant. Didn't really grab me but it wasn't awful. Kinda what I expected, actually. I didn't give it much of a fair go though lol but maybe I'll try again in the future.

trza
05-08-2015, 02:35 PM
I wish I had never heard Flying Lotus.

rubberdingyrapids
05-08-2015, 02:41 PM
i like the surrounded by silence album by prefuse. never got into the earlier stuff.

Leo
05-08-2015, 03:49 PM
Wen/Mumdance/Logos (although I do like LHF and the Dusk/Blackdown stuff)
Drake
Bjork
Major Lazer
Tame Impala
Vampire Weekend
Grimes

To be fair, I did at some point give a few of these one listen but they didn't click, so have ignored them since.

Corpsey
05-08-2015, 04:00 PM
I tried Vampire Weekend recently cos they appear on a lot of those top 100 albums of the decade lists.

SHITE.

Leo
05-08-2015, 04:43 PM
I tried Vampire Weekend recently cos they appear on a lot of those top 100 albums of the decade lists.

SHITE.

i'm always puzzled about how they are liked/loved by some music journalists who i respect and usually agree with. don't get it.

mistersloane
05-08-2015, 04:44 PM
i'm always puzzled about how they are liked/loved by some music journalists who i respect and usually agree with. don't get it.

People who like David Byrne and C86 indie music

baboon2004
05-08-2015, 05:23 PM
I'd largely avoided Drake for 5/6 years or whatever it is, until finally curiosity got the better of me one evening this year. And...it's not bad, is it? But why the hell is he so popular? Very personable in interviews though.

luka
05-08-2015, 05:26 PM
I like hold on it brings that quiet storm feeling back

luka
05-08-2015, 05:27 PM
Doesn't have the poise, hauteur or emotional weight of sade but it's a start

Corpsey
05-08-2015, 05:35 PM
I hate on Drake at every opportunity but he's had some really good songs that cannot be denied as (albeit miserable) pop music.

Saying that, I think he's absolutely massive at the moment for reasons other than the music, but the music is definitely well produced/written.

CrowleyHead
05-08-2015, 06:13 PM
I actually fuck w/ some Vampire Weekend tracks.

Sectionfive
05-08-2015, 08:56 PM
ELO
Autechre + many of their fallow travellers
probably most post millennium hip hop

Corpsey
05-08-2015, 09:33 PM
I actually fuck w/ some Vampire Weekend tracks.

Name them plz

owengriffiths
05-08-2015, 10:02 PM
I've heard the name Mumford & Sons quite a bit in the last year or two, thought to myself I might as well fill in the gap in my knowledge. So I listened to three songs of theirs on youtube- what I presume are their three biggest tracks. I was expecting to recognise them as the chart topping hits that they are, one of them ones where you've heard them a million times before and they are actually okay you just never knew who did them. And... they seem to be b-sides, underwhelming tracks that never seem to kick in.

There's a scene in the Sopranos where Christopher plays Hesh the CD of the band that his girlfriend wants to sign. Hesh listens to it and says, "it's not a hit". Christopher says words to the affect of, "with all due respect you're an old man, this probably isn't you're kind of music". Hesh replies: "doesn't matter, whether I like this genre or not I can tell the difference between a hit and a miss, and that is not a hit".

He was talking about Mumford & Sons.

droid
05-08-2015, 10:09 PM
Autechre + many of their fallow travellers

Whatever about the fellow travelers, you should rectify the AE bit. They stand alone in electronic music.

Corpsey
05-08-2015, 11:24 PM
He was talking about Mumford & Sons.

I hate them on principle because they're English public schoolboys pretending to be Irish gypsy folk, but I couldn't help but really like that song they did for "Inside Lwelyn Davies". I console myself with the knowledge that they probably ripped off the whole thing from some actual Irish follies.

baboon2004
06-08-2015, 12:41 AM
I hate on Drake at every opportunity but he's had some really good songs that cannot be denied as (albeit miserable) pop music.

Saying that, I think he's absolutely massive at the moment for reasons other than the music, but the music is definitely well produced/written.

which tunes made him massive though? i loved 9am in dallas, but tunes like started from the bottom and marvin's room seem weak to me. not bad as such, just nothing-y. I'm perplexed that he's a superstar.

rubberdingyrapids
06-08-2015, 10:28 AM
best thing drake ever did was the take care album
his masterpiece imo
even though everything he does is a work of contrivance

vampire weekend - i like some of their songs too
though i dont remember the titles
contra i think was one

CrowleyHead
06-08-2015, 01:34 PM
vampire weekend - i like some of their songs too
though i dont remember the titles
contra i think was one

This sounds close to my impression. I thought "Oxford Comma" was p. nice.

I don't listen to them regularly and when I heard A-Punk I thought the fake high-life vocal effects were pretty much, but then again we're told to cosign Talking Heads and were they much better necessarily?

I haven't heard any of Daniel Lanois solo, doesn't seem my cup of tea. And I have never heard a lick of Sick of it All.

Strawberry Switchblade is beloved by all my friends who love Cocteau Twins, so for that reason I've never ever ever listened to them.

Corpsey
06-08-2015, 02:28 PM
This article on Drake by Noz was highly influential on my subsequent suspicion of him as an artist: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127834096

I believe there's controversy over his rise to notoriety. I think him getting co-signed by Lil Wayne when Lil Wayne was the biggest rapper around was part of it. As Pusha T said (in reference to Drake) "I build mine off fed time and dope lines / You caught steam off headlines and co-signs".

The first song I heard by him was 'Best I Ever Had', which is probably seen by many as his low point, but I actually 'boldly' claimed to be his high point in a 'Wire' article. It stands in stark contrast to most of his later material by being upbeat and poppy and light hearted. (But maybe I like it because when I heard it I didn't know who Drake really was and therefore I took him light-heartedly.)

I think a significant thing Drake brought into rap was the fusion with R'N'B. Wayne and Kanye sang first, I think, but Drake was arguably the first rapper who was as much as much for an RNB audience as a hip-hop audience.

I'm sure Crowley among others can give a better overview of Drake's career though.

trza
06-08-2015, 02:52 PM
you couldn't make you point with less than four drake video embeds?

Leo
06-08-2015, 03:10 PM
funny thing is, when i think of this thread topic or "acts you just don't get" in general, the artists who come to mind aren't necessarily "bad". it's not that i don't listen to them because i think they suck, it's more some mysterious intangible thing about them (perhaps personality based), some obstacle that prevents me from giving them a fair chance. i know lots of people with great tastes in music who love bjork or drake (or kanye!), so i accept those artists are "great" in an objective sense, but something about them redirects me from having any interest.

Corpsey
06-08-2015, 03:14 PM
Yes Leo I relate to that. Often its me being a contrarian - if loads of people are going on about something I tend to avoid it.

CrowleyHead
06-08-2015, 04:59 PM
I do the same, but I try to figure out why...

A good example is Massive Attack. For years I've wondered why I don't love them. I like a couple songs fine, I love a lot of the people who know them but MA itself is... I once determined that as opposed to Tricky who (used to) make pop from a sort of post-hip-hop aesthetic which blurs a little with his Kate Bush fascinations, or likewise Portishead who do a similar thing... Massive Attack make a 'rock' version of hip-hop. Its all big stadium music and I tend to get bored by that very easily, and plus it worked really fast at shedding any real connection to dub or to hip-hop, instead becoming a lot more amorphous.

At some point I do need to do a Drake overview though bc so much of it makes sense but so much of it baffles me.

Leo
06-08-2015, 05:14 PM
yup...yet at the same time, we probably all genuinely (ie, non-ironically) love some commercially popular (i.e., not-cool-for-heads-and-hipsters") artists. i love hot chip and the pet shop boys. i still really like the first xx album. i'd rather listen to a lenny kravitz greatest hits collection than most of the stuff on hyperdub.

ok, that last one might be going a little too far. but it's true!

rubberdingyrapids
06-08-2015, 05:52 PM
if you dont like or get drake after listening to crew love, its prob not for you.

with drake you have to get past the whiny affected ennui but if you just want to hear him doing straight rap (and i think i might prefer it sometimes, even if its a more conservative option), then check out the motto -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYDKK95cpfM
this beat is one of my favourites of the last 5 years or so.

this one is also incredible (best synths since joker, in fact i wonder if it was influenced by joker) -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KCWqnldEag

im obv a bigger drake fan than i thought.

Corpsey
06-08-2015, 06:15 PM
This is a good forum for getting interesting discussions out of potentially boring subjects :D

Re: the discussion just above - I'm intrigued by the idea of what influence verbal/written descriptions of music has on our reception of that music 'post facto' ('post factmagazineo'). I remember reading about Talking Heads writing a song based on a description they'd read of Joy Division, having never actually HEARD Joy Division. I quite like that idea.

And I've read all this stuff about Tricky, e.g., which puts me off listening to him in the first place. Cos it sounds so very 90's, and also a bit depressing. This is a power that writers still hold, even in the internet age. I mean, if you've read a really eloquently negative review of something before you listen to it, isn't it likely that you'll be led down that negative path yourself?

Re drake (who is now taking over every post I do on here) - I think I actually could like him a lot more if he DID turn out to be a mouthpiece for other peoples' lyrics. I don't mind RNB singers doing that, for example. I think its the pretense with Drake that I can't stand. Particularly pretending to be a hard man when he is, as our American cousins might say, a complete Urkle.

Tentative Andy
06-08-2015, 09:02 PM
Oneohtrix Point Never.

Corpsey
06-08-2015, 10:51 PM
Oneohtrix Point Never EVER Ever?

Glacial 718
07-08-2015, 04:31 AM
Four Tet, some of his music is probably really good but in my mind I've built him up to be middle-of-roadness personified and I don't want to burst that bubble

realistically everyone in this thread has heard the big names in it, if you're at all plugged in you've heard Massive Attack/Mumford&Sons/Drake/etc., just perhaps not knowingly. you're still aware of the music they're producing on some level.

mistersloane
07-08-2015, 05:50 AM
And...it's not bad, is it? But why the hell is he so popular?

It's Noah Shebib, his producer, who is fucking mindblowing, coupled with clever marketing, allowing for a backstory plus "emotion". He's like Mary J Blige, that kinda marrying of genres plus human interest, which has allowed him to have "fans" in a way that artists don't really have anymore. Plus he genre-hops (Hold On, amazing) which gives people renewed interest.

But yeah I know...the "not bad" is about right. Love the production though, there's a few really good interviews with Shebib.

Mr. Tea
07-08-2015, 10:06 AM
Oneohtrix Point Never.

This guy could make the most amazing music the world has ever heard, for all I know, but like fuck am I listening to anything made by someone with a name that stupid.

I saw Bonobo live about a decade ago and they were a huge amount of fun. I say that as someone who is by no means a d'n'b connoisseur, however.

My own list would include:

most or all jazz
Glass, Xenakis and all that avant-garde modern classical stuff
Deadmau5

Corpsey
07-08-2015, 10:09 AM
I didn't even know Bonobo was D'N'B lol

Philip Glass is pretty good. OTOH he wrote the music for that intolerable This American Life episode recently where they turned a story about being stuck in a hotel closet into an opera for larks :BOURGOISIEGUFFAW:

Mr. Tea
07-08-2015, 10:20 AM
It might have been Bonobo feat. someone else, but it was definitely a d'n'b night.

That Glass thing makes me think of R. Kelly's incomparable 'Trapped In The Closet'.

droid
07-08-2015, 10:22 AM
Never heard Mumford and sons.

Would highly recommend any live performance of Glass by a decent ensemble (EDIT - DUH, its Steve reich). Saw bang on a can do 18 musicians last year and it was mindblowingly good.

Xenaxis' percussion pieces are outstanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2a47OEee58

rubberdingyrapids
07-08-2015, 10:40 AM
we need a thread just about drake. but until that happens, i just wanted to say re: that pusha t line, where he compares his "fed time and dope lines" against drakes "headlines and co-signs"... i mean, sorry, pusha, that every rapper hasnt done prison time or sold drugs! what kind of rapper could someone ever hope to be if they havent cooked coke first?

luka
07-08-2015, 11:34 AM
It's quite easy to start a thread mate you don't need to wait for one to just manifest out the aether

rubberdingyrapids
07-08-2015, 11:41 AM
you learn something new every day.

droid
07-08-2015, 11:42 AM
Yes please do if only to corral all this incredibly tiresome Drake nonsense into one place so I can ignore it in peace.

bassbeyondreason
07-08-2015, 11:45 AM
Would highly recommend any live performance of Glass by a decent ensemble. Saw bang on a can do 18 musicians last year and it was mindblowingly good.


That's a Steve Reich piece which is, as you say, mindblowing. Always found Glass pretty lightweight and dull, especially compared to Reich...

droid
07-08-2015, 11:45 AM
That's a Steve Reich piece which is, as you say, mindblowing. Always found Glass pretty lightweight and dull, especially compared to Reich...

Sorry, jesus, yeah of course. duh. And agreed.

CrowleyHead
07-08-2015, 03:15 PM
The greatest thing involving Phillip Glass will still be Bun B's RBMA Lecture where he close out with a reference to Phillip Glass being serious music, to which he followed up with "BETCHALL DINN KNOW BUN B KNEW BOUT PHILLIP GLYAASSSS." Top 10 Rap Moment.

CrowleyHead
07-08-2015, 03:17 PM
I've only heard three Squarepusher songs and what in god's name ppl.

I've heard one Boards of Canada song and that shit is a joke.

I have no desire or interest in ever listening to Stars Under The Lid or People Under The Stairs, who I always have presumed are the same group. Both sound terrible.

droid
07-08-2015, 03:41 PM
SOTL have made some lovely ambient/drone stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_kHO7M7Bzc

Squarepusher has his moments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G01DKEig14&list=PLF01EED5EEA9D4A6A&index=2

Cant stand BOC myself either, but thats more of a pet hate.

Corpsey
07-08-2015, 03:44 PM
People Under The Stairs are extremely bland. I owned an album by them and even in my days of worshipping anything self-proclaimed 'underground' I knew that it was pretty much a dud. Used to be really into this song in particular:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udtqc_H_C1w

(hopefully this will tempt Crowley into accidentally listening to PUTS for once in his life)

droid
07-08-2015, 03:45 PM
People Under The Stairs are extremely bland. I owned an album by them and even in my days of worshipping anything self-proclaimed 'underground' I knew that it was pretty much a dud. Used to be really into this song in particular:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udtqc_H_C1w

(hopefully this will tempt Crowley into accidentally listening to PUTS for once in his life)

Ah, never heard them before. Thought they were some kind of rap thing. A billion miles away from STOL then.

Leo
07-08-2015, 04:52 PM
i still own the first squarepusher album, haven't listened to it for many years and may never listen to it again but it was pretty original sounding at the time.

i do still like this, though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13HM-bmKW2U

m99188868
25-08-2015, 04:15 PM
Prince, Beatles, Rolling stones, all of folk and punk. Too much stuff really. The hip-hop thread above as well, probably.

I don't know what it is, laziness or backwardness, but for most stuff I should try to at least have a minimum of curiosity I just can't bring up the time and energy.

Corpsey
25-08-2015, 04:50 PM
I've always struggled with Prince #teamMJ but there are a few songs I recommend, all stinkingly obvious ones off his Greatest Hits:

I Would Die 4 U
When Doves Cry
Raspberry Beret
I Wanna Be Your Lover
If I Was Your Girlfriend
Dirty Mind
Get Off

I was thoroughly inculcated into the Beatles/Stones by my parents so I'm almost an eccentric Dissensian in liking them both. I can see why people hate the Beatles tbh but they've got more hits than Muhammed Ali and they nasally wail so viciously.

I Want You
Blackbird
You Won't See Me
Because (basically all of Abbey Road minus the atrocious Maxwell's Silver Hammer and that one Ringo sings)
Rain

But for God's sake don't feel obliged, I don't think it's remotely essential to hear any of them.

Corpsey
25-08-2015, 04:51 PM
I'd like to make an educated guess here and wager that Luka hates The Beatles and Crowley probably does too ;)

luka
25-08-2015, 05:01 PM
Definitely hate sergeant pep

Corpsey
25-08-2015, 05:07 PM
I can imagine Sgt Pepper being the opposite of everything you cherish

All twee and cheeky and full of quaint trumpets

droid
25-08-2015, 05:08 PM
https://youtu.be/ZodBYQ4pJ0M

Corpsey
25-08-2015, 05:08 PM
McCartney, basically. A melodic master but also responsible for a lot of the twee parumpapumpum stuff.

Saying that, also responsible for stuff like ''Eleanor Rigby'', which must win some Luka love on account of it being sampled in Sisqo's seminal classic ''Thong Song''.

Corpsey
25-08-2015, 05:09 PM
https://youtu.be/ZodBYQ4pJ0M

Ah this is a good one. ''Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid GET.''

droid
25-08-2015, 05:11 PM
The Beatles were the best thing to ever happen to me as a kid. Couldnt hope for a better musical primer.

Been listening to this recently. Tis great.

http://www.sneakydragon.com/category/podcast/compleatly-beatles/

Corpsey
25-08-2015, 05:28 PM
Might check those out.

Two more I fux with: Dear Prudence / Something

Mr. Tea
25-08-2015, 05:28 PM
Beatles

I'm not going to wade into whether the Beatles we great or shit, in part because I'm on the fence myself (I think they had some good pop tunes, for sure, but don't really warrant their status as Ultimate Defining Musical Phenomenon Of The 20th Century), but I have trouble believing anyone with working ears could have reached adulthood in a Western country without having heard at least some of their music. (Unless by "never heard" we really mean "never sat down and deliberately listened to".)

Firefox's spellchecker recognizes "Beatles". It does not recognize, say, "Jamiroquai".

Mr. Tea
25-08-2015, 05:30 PM
As a side note, can one of the kewl kidz explain WTF this:


Two more I fux with:

means?

Corpsey
25-08-2015, 05:33 PM
And yet Jamiroquai made more dancefloor bangers than The Beatles. I think Twist and Shout is the closest they came to matching a groove machine like Little L. Also, although they experimented with numerous eccentric dress styles, I don't think Lennon or McCartney ever wore a hat as stupid as Jay Kay's, nor drove Lamborghinis around rural roads at top speed with Denise Van Outen in the passenger seat. So the Quai win.

N.B. Despite the above being more or less sarcastic, Jamiroquai are probably my first and foremost guilty pleasure. I comfort myself in the knowledge that I'm sure I've read somewhere that they're beloved by at least some rappers. (See also: Phil Collins and Maroon 5 :eek:)

Corpsey
25-08-2015, 05:34 PM
As a side note, can one of the kewl kidz explain WTF this:



means?

It means I FUCK WITH ____ which means I ENGAGE PROACTIVELY WITH.

For example: ''I fux with mass immigration" said Nigel Farage, never.

CrowleyHead
25-08-2015, 07:33 PM
I fuck with The Beatles actually, I just find the BEATLES FANDOM existence in popular culture tedious as fuck.

The Reprise of the title track on "Sgt. Pepper" is actually hard as fuck.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VUImpeQG66U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I was joking with Luka once everything sounds better with breakbeats, as proven by...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EWrltVYt8VM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Leo
25-08-2015, 07:38 PM
The Beatles were the best thing to ever happen to me as a kid. Couldnt hope for a better musical primer.

have to agree with droid. it's easy to lose sight of the fact that the beatles were so far ahead of everyone else for most of their career. yeah, they copped chuck berry riffs for their early years but then their sound quickly transformed into something miles beyond their contemporaries. might even say everything from '65 ("rubber soul") on wouldn't sound entirely out of place if released any time in the past 10-20 years. just the fact that they went from "help!" to "sgt. pepper" in just two years is amazing, those albums are light-years apart in style and sound.

droid
25-08-2015, 11:13 PM
Someone once asked me 'why should I listen to the Beatles?'. I mumbled the usual platitudes about their importance, 'great songwriters' etc, but afterwards I realised that the thing that makes them so special is the fact that they made complicated things sound simple. They're the epitome of a gateway band - totally accessible yet full of hidden depths if you care to delve.

As for the Beatles phenomenon... they were avatars for an entire generation at probably the last time in history where a single band could occupy that position within the mainstream, so its understandable.

mistersloane
26-08-2015, 03:17 PM
Prince, Beatles, Rolling stones, all of folk and punk. Too much stuff really. The hip-hop thread above as well, probably.

I don't know what it is, laziness or backwardness, but for most stuff I should try to at least have a minimum of curiosity I just can't bring up the time and energy.

It's laziness

Leo
26-08-2015, 05:26 PM
it's also partly not having the time to explore things, or perhaps we just have access to too much (via the web) and feel overwhelmed and turned off (aka, lazy). i used to love to find some obscure, weird looking/sounding record or cd, then research the label, maybe uncover a new scene that's developing somewhere and follow all the tangents. now i often feel i don't even have time to listen to stuff i have, never mind searching out new things.

other priorities suck up your time when you get older. and i'm an old bastard!

luka
26-08-2015, 06:24 PM
I know I shouldn't go on about the Beatles cos you can't change anybody mind and I don't dislike everything they do. I even own revolver and have listened to it on more than one occasion.
BUT i don't and can't see how anybody could consider them to be in the same league as songwriters, musicians or vocalists as the motown crew who I consider to be the pinnacle of pop music. Nothing the Beatles does sounds perfect. It always sounds provisional whereas motown released a huge number or perfect records. Records that are so.perfectly formed it's like they've ways existed. The Beatles always sound very sludgey, very sluggish and half formed. You don't get the sharp edges and smooth surfaces you get with motown. There's nothing sexy or glamorous there

m99188868
26-08-2015, 08:08 PM
I have trouble believing anyone with working ears could have reached adulthood in a Western country without having heard at least some of their music. (Unless by "never heard" we really mean "never sat down and deliberately listened to".)

Yes, that is what I meant, of course. I have heard their greatest hits, as does everybody. I just never cared to sit down to listen to even one of their albums and I doubt I ever will. There is an obvious quality to their music, but it's lost on me. Most of it riles me up.

Leo, is right, by the way. It's not only laziness. It's also priorities. Beatles, Stones, folk, eighties punk, recent hiphop, etc. score low on my priorities list. I am sure I miss out on some excellent stuff, mind you, it's not that I am proud of it.

droid
26-08-2015, 10:32 PM
Nothing the Beatles does sounds perfect. It always sounds provisional whereas motown released a huge number or perfect records. Records that are so.perfectly formed it's like they've ways existed. The Beatles always sound very sludgey, very sluggish and half formed. You don't get the sharp edges and smooth surfaces you get with motown. There's nothing sexy or glamorous there

Cant really agree with this. They did plenty of rough stuff - (nearly all of let it be for example), but take 'When Im 64, Day in the life, Michelle, Norwegian wood, Blackbird...'. Like them or loathe them - they are perfect.

But yes, it is a totally different style to Motown, but there are problems there too. Too smooth, no rough edges or textures, endless variations on a tried and tested formula.

luka
26-08-2015, 10:45 PM
Yeah I dunno those songs just sound drab, tired and grey to me but it's a matter of taste, we won't find a middle ground so probably not worth pursuing it.

I don't have any sentimental attachment to them because they were never ever played in my house as a child so I view them with complete perfect objectivity whereas for you lot their music is tangled up with childhood memories and emotions

droid
26-08-2015, 10:55 PM
Yes and no. I remember at age 12 or so rewinding the end of 'day in the life' over and over again on my walkman trying to pinpoint the exact moment it faded out , so, for me, it's as much about an introduction into sonic possibility as it is nostalgia. Didn't get heavily into them until my teens, then it was revolver, magical mystery tour, abbey road.

There's quite a few Beatles tunes I dont like, but believe me, spend 6 months on a factory floor with piped in daytime radio, and a Beatles record shines like the sun amongst the dross that makes up most of pop music.

Regardless, I dont think the Motown comparison fits. Its just too different. Like comparing Gaye to Dylan.

luka
26-08-2015, 10:56 PM
Haven't ever heard of Michelle or blackbird thoUgh tbh

droid
26-08-2015, 11:21 PM
! Theyre both pretty famous tunes.

Even at their most grandiose and sickly the fuckers hook you. The pathos in this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTUi9l84fRw

Corpsey
26-08-2015, 11:30 PM
Blackbird famously helped inspire Charles Manson to try and kickstart a race war. Its one of my favourites, despite the piped in birdsong now sounding a little naff.

I guess the Beatles were more than anybody else responsible for turning rock n roll into a cerebral genre instead of a visceral genre aimed at dance floors. They were the first to try a lot of things, and inevitably some of those things didn't work (or many). Thinking of the harpsichord solo in the middle of the otherwise perfect "In My Life", which for me scuppers it.

I guess a lot of these things that the Beatles did sound passť to our ears but at the time I bet it was genuinely mind blowing for people to hear those things.

There was a good program Howard Goodall did about the Beatles wherein he explains some of the radical things they did with chord progressions etc. And " Revolution In The Head" by Ian McDonald is similarly musically informed as well as good on the cultural background.

droid
26-08-2015, 11:37 PM
It was pretty much the entire white album that Manson locked onto.

I think theyve generally stood up well to the test of time, partly because theres just so much stuff going on in their tunes. And stuff like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HNgIqKDC4Q

Still doesnt have a decent analogue today.

CrowleyHead
27-08-2015, 12:40 AM
I know I shouldn't go on about the Beatles cos you can't change anybody mind and I don't dislike everything they do. I even own revolver and have listened to it on more than one occasion.
BUT i don't and can't see how anybody could consider them to be in the same league as songwriters, musicians or vocalists as the motown crew who I consider to be the pinnacle of pop music. Nothing the Beatles does sounds perfect. It always sounds provisional whereas motown released a huge number or perfect records. Records that are so.perfectly formed it's like they've ways existed. The Beatles always sound very sludgey, very sluggish and half formed. You don't get the sharp edges and smooth surfaces you get with motown. There's nothing sexy or glamorous there

That's logical, considering The Beatles is (at its core) 2 guys and Motown is a corporation/think tank style environment.

The Beatles are songwriters and work with each other and each other alone. Obviously they have a sort of 'general' competition with pop, paying attention to the Stones, Beach Boys, whomever. But Motown are not only fighting for dominance in the R&B charts, they're working at besting each other... H-D-H vs. Smokey, as dancing groups. Look at Marvin Gaye who marries into the Gordy family hoping to be afforded a position over other artists, not unlike the old schtick of someone marrying the boss' daughter to move up.

Everyone talks about the assembly line concept with Motown, but Motown has multiple degrees of interlocking pressure and competition even before they have to deal with the outside world.

Sectionfive
27-08-2015, 12:56 AM
smiths

Corpsey
27-08-2015, 12:57 AM
This is a good place to post this, perhaps. An article about the hitmakers behind Katy Perry and other artists, and who have scored the most number one singles ever... Behind Lennon and McCartney.

Interesting and somewhat dispiriting to observe the modern pop process as more or less hostile to genuine innovation, micromanaged and stripped of all spontaneity and productive of music in which meaning is hog-tied to structure. Structure which is deliberately, mathematically contrived. I mean, its admirable in a way, and impressive. (And some of the songs they've done have been great ("since you've been gone", anyone?)

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/10/14/the-doctor-is-in

luka
27-08-2015, 09:46 AM
That's logical, considering The Beatles is (at its core) 2 guys and Motown is a corporation/think tank style environment.
Logical of course but the reason I make the comparison is the enormous overinflation of the Beatles reputation when looked at logically they never made one song on the level of tracks of my tears for example and as musicians are nowhere near funk brothers and friends and as vocalists make a deeply offputing flat undynamic nasal whiney noise.

luka
27-08-2015, 09:50 AM
And then you're told you must enjoy them cos they were the first people to put a backwards sitar on a track or something as if that's a useful contribution

luka
27-08-2015, 09:51 AM
It's a stupid thing to argue about but anytime it comes up.I just can't help myself because the reputation is so out of whack with the achievements

droid
27-08-2015, 09:54 AM
Thats simply because you don't understand/appreciate what their achievements were.

Regardless of the merits of the music, they invented the LP, set a template for the modern music industry and completely redefined pop.

luka
27-08-2015, 10:12 AM
Lennons voice in particular is such a sour instrument

luka
27-08-2015, 10:15 AM
He can do sneering or self pity or even both at once, but that's the entirety of his range of expression it's a nasty passive aggressive thing

luka
27-08-2015, 10:30 AM
It's impossible not to react to ahistorical hyperbole like THEY INVENTED THE LP

luka
27-08-2015, 10:36 AM
Might as well just say they invented music, really go for it

luka
27-08-2015, 10:37 AM
They were four angels sent from heaven we shall never see their like again amen

luka
27-08-2015, 10:40 AM
Except for The Las, The Las were quite similar and also probably angels albeit lesser ones, not archangels, or seraphim but possibly cherubim or something

Benny B
27-08-2015, 10:50 AM
Beatles version of you really got a hold on me shits on smokeys original though

luka
27-08-2015, 11:14 AM
I suppose if you want to Jerry-rig a definition of LP that carefully excludes all LPs made prior to Rubber Soul then truly The Beatles are the Archetypal Progenitors of the LP, the first beloved of GOD and father of all rightly children of GOD such as The Beach Boys, Bob Dylan, Love and The Las.

luka
27-08-2015, 11:17 AM
First GOD gave us Rubber Soul and he found that it was good and so he then gave us Pet Sounds and lo, it was also good, but it was only ever number two in all Mojo best albums lists for Sgt Pep was to be given unto the earth to crown all Mojo lists except when they are in.a revisionist mood and declare Revolver to be the superior LP

luka
27-08-2015, 11:20 AM
Tis heresy to depart from the teachings of Mojo and the BBC documentary series 'Dancing in the street'

luka
27-08-2015, 11:22 AM
For truly The Beatles were the first to put a backwards sitar on a record and thus the course of Western Civ was altered forever

luka
27-08-2015, 11:29 AM
Never had the world seen such haircuts. Upon seeing the divine moptops the staid repressed monochrome world of the '50s was swept aside and replaced with a technicolour dream world and lo, marijuana was invented

luka
27-08-2015, 11:32 AM
And in Paris, riots and the hurling of cobblestones

luka
27-08-2015, 11:34 AM
And then LSD was invented and George Harrison invented Hinduism and converted all India

craner
27-08-2015, 11:35 AM
I think the idea that every youngster who heard the Beatles at the time was astounded by them is nonsense. From personal, anecdotal evidence, both my parents say they saw them live, seperately, and thought they were shit, precisely because they were listening to Motown and ska and things like that. It paled. They didn't actually dislike them, so it's not a pose.

luka
27-08-2015, 11:36 AM
Ringo Starr scored his famous hat trick at Wembley and England held the world cup aloft for the first and only time, never able to scale such.heights again for The Beatles midfield quartet was broken up and Paul married a vegetarian

droid
27-08-2015, 11:39 AM
It's impossible not to react to ahistorical hyperbole like THEY INVENTED THE LP

You know what I meant - and also, you're assuming Im saying that this was a good thing.

Still, great to see your fabled objectivity and lack of attachment on display here. Very compelling when combined with the self admitted ignorance.

craner
27-08-2015, 11:45 AM
You can't begrudge him a run like that, the rest of us are on the floor in fits of laughter!

luka
27-08-2015, 11:46 AM
Four scouse scragg ends whose caustic and irreverent wit caused such shock and indignation in American press conferences for truly the American is a simple man, genuflecting unthinkingly to authority and knowing only one hairstyle, the crewcut

luka
27-08-2015, 11:51 AM
And Alan Ginsburg was later to invent poetry simply by removing the musical backing from Beatles songs and intoning the lyrics in a rabbinical manner to the excited whoops and yelps of jack kerouac and other youth culture luminaries in the city of Sans Francisco

droid
27-08-2015, 12:09 PM
You can't begrudge him a run like that, the rest of us are on the floor in fits of laughter!

Its the oldest game in music. Every contrary 13yr old has a similar spiel he thinks is original.

craner
27-08-2015, 12:12 PM
Somewhere Woebot is reading this and fuming.

droid
27-08-2015, 12:16 PM
In fact the only thing more tiresome than Beatles worship is Beatles debunking - perhaps even more so.

luka
27-08-2015, 12:20 PM
Well the one thing I think we can both agree on droid is that the '60s were a truly wonderful time to be alive

luka
27-08-2015, 12:22 PM
And to be young in those days, why, it was to be given the keys to the gates of Heaven itself

Mr. Tea
27-08-2015, 12:22 PM
You can't begrudge him a run like that, the rest of us are on the floor in fits of laughter!

Yeah I was just gonna say - luka and droid having at each other, craner throwing in his 2c as well, it's just like old times! Love it.

luka
27-08-2015, 12:24 PM
And I think we can both agree that it were at Altamont that the dream died and the '60s came skidding and screaming to a halt

luka
27-08-2015, 12:25 PM
It's chromium bumpers buckled against the crash barriers of bad acid, Vietnam and the manson family

craner
27-08-2015, 12:28 PM
Evil Yoko

droid
27-08-2015, 12:36 PM
Hating the Beatles is an interesting business. I personally have always enjoyed them. But if you happen to be, like most people, more or less indifferent to them, I can understand the temptation to develop an active hatred, just because it's a lot more interesting than not caring either way. It suggests boldness, passion, and critical thinking on your part, you know? Do it at the right parties, and you can wind up standing in a corner looking like a delightful raconteur, with half a dozen people standing around you hanging on your every word, because they're desperate to convince you that you could not possibly hate the Beatles and must be mistaken somehow.

For a lot of music lovers, though, hating the Beatles is a 101 class in basic contrarianism. So if you're going to do it, you should do it carefully and effectively. Here are some pointers.

http://www.vulture.com/2010/12/how_to_hate_the_beatles.html

luka
27-08-2015, 12:43 PM
Yes if someone forms a different opinion to you it is by definition mere contrarianism.

luka
27-08-2015, 12:45 PM
But don't worry about crafting your own pointed, devilishly witty rejoinder, just link to something someone else has written, it's easier and it saves time

droid
27-08-2015, 12:57 PM
But don't worry about crafting your own pointed, devilishly witty rejoinder

Getting a fascinating insight into your self image here, please continue.

luka
27-08-2015, 01:00 PM
It's called self awareness but possibly too nuanced for the literal minded reader

CrowleyHead
27-08-2015, 01:03 PM
Lemmy from Motorhead has a great story of Ringo beating a fan with a wrench before they got signed. Points for that.

It also kind of murks the Beatles thing that you know a bunch of the drums is Bernard Perdie ghosting in for Ringo. Its like "MAN, RINGO CAN ACTUALLY... No, wait, that's Bernard."

droid
27-08-2015, 01:03 PM
Yes I can see that now. There's a lot of nuance at work here. We're almost drowning in subtlety.

CrowleyHead
27-08-2015, 01:06 PM
This is a good place to post this, perhaps. An article about the hitmakers behind Katy Perry and other artists, and who have scored the most number one singles ever... Behind Lennon and McCartney.

Interesting and somewhat dispiriting to observe the modern pop process as more or less hostile to genuine innovation, micromanaged and stripped of all spontaneity and productive of music in which meaning is hog-tied to structure. Structure which is deliberately, mathematically contrived. I mean, its admirable in a way, and impressive. (And some of the songs they've done have been great ("since you've been gone", anyone?)

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/10/14/the-doctor-is-in

Well, this isn't TOO far from Motown's aesthetic really. Besides how effectively clean and well recorded everything was, is any Motown single TRULY a radical break from R&B beforehand? They learned how to make the singles they'd been hearing and recording for two, three decades prior into more hyper digestible forms. That's not so divorced from Dr. Luke & Max Martin.

droid
27-08-2015, 01:10 PM
Perdie ghosting in for Ringo. Its like "MAN, RINGO CAN ACTUALLY... No, wait, that's Bernard."

Apocryphal. He may have overdubbed Pete Best on 'The Sheridan sessions', but no, this never happened.

McCartney did do a couple of tunes on the white album when Ringo left the band, but thats more or less it.

luka
27-08-2015, 01:24 PM
Poor droid.

Corpsey
27-08-2015, 03:44 PM
Well, this isn't TOO far from Motown's aesthetic really. Besides how effectively clean and well recorded everything was, is any Motown single TRULY a radical break from R&B beforehand? They learned how to make the singles they'd been hearing and recording for two, three decades prior into more hyper digestible forms. That's not so divorced from Dr. Luke & Max Martin.

Yeah, and this sort of gets to the heart of the issue with The Beatles in that they are prized for innovation and the meaningfulness of their lyrics (which was a product of the time, I suppose, given that (I think) Lennon said he wrote I Am The Walrus purposefully to excite ridiculous interpretations of nonsense), arguably more so than the POP! aspect of their sound. Now, actually, as Luka is sort of suggesting in his (extremely funny) posts, their innovative achievements have perhaps been overstated - and in a sense they too resemble Max Martin/Dr Luke, in that they took the avant-garde techniques/innovations of classical composers, and the music of cultures such as India e.g., and brought and fitted those into a pop context.

This thread was such a stupid idea and its turned into an entertaining and interesting read so thanks for that you lot.

I'm currently listening to an artist I've never really listened to before - Kate Bush. And I'm really enjoying the experience.

Have I turned Dissensus into MOJO forum though? :eek:

droid
27-08-2015, 03:50 PM
Yeah, and this sort of gets to the heart of the issue with The Beatles in that they are prized for innovation and the meaningfulness of their lyrics (which was a product of the time, I suppose, given that (I think) Lennon said he wrote I Am The Walrus purposefully to excite ridiculous interpretations of nonsense), arguably more so than the POP! aspect of their sound. Now, actually, as Luka is sort of suggesting in his (extremely funny) posts, their innovative achievements have perhaps been overstated - and in a sense they too resemble Max Martin/Dr Luke, in that they took the avant-garde techniques/innovations of classical composers, and the music of cultures such as India e.g., and brought and fitted those into a pop context.

The point I was trying to make is less about musical innovation and more about overall influence. They changed things hugely in many areas of music, from merchandising to touring to publishing models, the use of the studio, how LP's were produced and perceived... not that they were innovative (though sometimes they were), or were the only people doing some of these things, but that their position greatly magnified their influence.

Obv, this is all blindingly self evident, so much so that it does not need stating at all (or so I thought). Cliches are cliches for a reason.

trza
27-08-2015, 03:52 PM
I don't listen to the Beattles or get worked up about the wierd worship of them by the majority of rock writers from two generations ago. They did play jazz and r&b for a time in Germany before they blew up and the influences of that with the rock and rock appeared in their music. Some of the cover versions blow my mind, still discovering more of them all the time.

craner
27-08-2015, 04:03 PM
They hated jazz when they were in Hamburg. Haven't you even watched Backbeat? Pah!

luka
27-08-2015, 05:31 PM
They changed things hugely in many areas of music, from merchandising to touring to publishing models
Fucking hell son do you want to be a bit more boring

Leo
27-08-2015, 06:42 PM
who's better, badfinger or klaatu?

mistersloane
28-08-2015, 02:30 AM
Yes, that is what I meant, of course. I have heard their greatest hits, as does everybody. I just never cared to sit down to listen to even one of their albums and I doubt I ever will. There is an obvious quality to their music, but it's lost on me. Most of it riles me up.

Leo, is right, by the way. It's not only laziness. It's also priorities. Beatles, Stones, folk, eighties punk, recent hiphop, etc. score low on my priorities list. I am sure I miss out on some excellent stuff, mind you, it's not that I am proud of it.

I think music is one of the few areas where it's important to be informed about why one isn't interested; it's important to be able to sing songs one dislikes. To whittle down that information, especially if you're making music.

I've no attachment to the Beatles - of their songs, I've only kept Daytripper and a slowed down version of I Want You - but in terms of music history, they have a place and I wanted to hear them. You can easily get their albums in libraries, so went through them, systematically. I do this alot, and it's interesting. It's only, what, 45 minutes a night for a week. It doesn't take long, and after that you can definitively go "Wow, I really hate the Beatles", or whoever. And be able to state why.

I don't understand this "never heard and never will" stuff at all. Even difficult music just requires sitting there, it's far from a chore.

Mr. Tea
28-08-2015, 10:37 AM
OK, I am actually going to make a proper effort to listen to the Beatles now. Top 3 Fab 4 albums to check out, anyone?

droid
28-08-2015, 10:47 AM
Its tricky, cos they released so many great singles that were never on LP's.

One thing you could do is get the red and blue albums, 'Best of' the Beatles really, but they have all the good singles.

If you want the album 'experience' though...

The revisionist canon is probably.

Help
Rubber Soul
Revolver

Psychedelic (+ post) phase

Magical Mystery Tour (US version)/Sergeant pepper
White Album
Abbey road

Mr. Tea
28-08-2015, 11:06 AM
Cheers droid. Although this:



One thing you could do is get the red and blue albums, 'Best of' the Beatles really, but they have all the good singles.


can't help but make me think of:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbMSUQE36us

droid
28-08-2015, 11:08 AM
And rightly so.

Benny B
28-08-2015, 11:43 AM
i love all phases of the beatles, but i do think that the early albums do get overlooked and in a way actually sound fresher today than the stuff after rubber soul. with the beatles, a hard days night and beatles for sale, even the live at the bbc comp are an excellent listen nearly all the way through. they were great at doing covers of motown and rock n roll songs, great live, some electrifying vocals from both lennon and macca (thats why i dont really get luka saying they were sludgy, they were actually very spikey and punky back then. lennon absolutely slays on twist n shout for example). so its not all about backwards sitars and concept lps and whatnot.

i like (but dont necessarily fully agree with) what billy childish said in a interview, that the very early hamburg-era stuff was the best because the beatles were still fans of music rather than fans of themselves, as they became later on. he proclaimed the best album to be live at the star club, a very hardcore line to take for sure, but i like it.

droid
28-08-2015, 12:02 PM
Its a weird one, cos as a kid it was all about the energy and catchiness of the early pop stuff ('twist and shout' was the one), but then I got into the later stuff and more or less dismissed it all. Going back to it in recent years, I was pretty impressed with how energetic, tight and raw that early stuff is, though stuff like 'taste of honey' still leaves me pretty cold.

There's certainly a good case to be made for the early stuff in terms of complexity as well. I can't believe (for example) that it took nearly 40 years for people to figure out what the first chord in 'Hard Days night' was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwfH9oAiPH0

droid
28-08-2015, 12:12 PM
And speaking of motown, according to MacDonald, this was Lennon's attempt to ape Smokey Robinson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_vqE2hBWkg

CrowleyHead
28-08-2015, 01:14 PM
who's better, badfinger or klaatu?

Badfinger never got covered by The Carpenters.

mistersloane
28-08-2015, 03:48 PM
Badfinger never got covered by The Carpenters.

Thread killa

Benny B
29-08-2015, 12:44 PM
going back to the original question...a couple of years ago i copied about 10 gb of albums from a friend with fairly experimental tastes. all artists who id been meaning to check out for a while. 2 years later and 90% of it is still languishing on my hd unlistened to. turns out i just cant be arsed with:

keiji haino, flower travelling band, vtheoretical girls, sun city girls, amebix, GOD, Hella, lard, lard free, las rallizes denudes, loop, les fleurs de lys, scorn, shuggie otis, techno animal, third ear band etc etc etc

Leo
29-08-2015, 12:47 PM
keiji haino, flower travelling band, vtheoretical girls, sun city girls, amebix, GOD, Hella, lard, lard free, las rallizes denudes, loop, les fleurs de lys, scorn, shuggie otis, techno animal, third ear band etc etc etc

this is great and much more listenable than much of their stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6CypaG5gqw

Benny B
29-08-2015, 01:11 PM
ive got that one actually, maybe ill give it a go. ive seen sir richard bishop live a couple of times, quite enjoyed it but not enough to make me investigate much further.

theres also lots of second/third division krautrock, but i still just end up putting on can or neu or kraftwerk.

mistersloane
29-08-2015, 03:37 PM
going back to the original question...a couple of years ago i copied about 10 gb of albums from a friend with fairly experimental tastes. all artists who id been meaning to check out for a while. 2 years later and 90% of it is still languishing on my hd unlistened to. turns out i just cant be arsed with:

keiji haino, flower travelling band, vtheoretical girls, sun city girls, amebix, GOD, Hella, lard, lard free, las rallizes denudes, loop, les fleurs de lys, scorn, shuggie otis, techno animal, third ear band etc etc etc

Loop were good - early - and then if you like them follow later. Rallizes are an aquired taste. "Time to Melt" by Lard is genius.

Benny B
29-08-2015, 06:45 PM
listening to that lard song now, its basically a doom metal version of foxy lady innit? can't stand jello biafra though, sorry.

i have gilded eternity by loop, will try that next. been led to believe they are a spacemen 3 rip-off band though which put me off listening to them til now.

Leo
29-08-2015, 10:08 PM
herbert.

Mr. Tea
30-08-2015, 06:55 PM
Weren't Lard one of these seemingly endless late-80s/early-90s Ministry side-projects? I've heard/got most of those but this one passed me by.

Benny B
30-08-2015, 07:37 PM
Yeah its some guys from ministry plus jello biafra. Sounds a bit like the melvins to me actually

mistersloane
31-08-2015, 11:01 AM
Weren't Lard one of these seemingly endless late-80s/early-90s Ministry side-projects? I've heard/got most of those but this one passed me by.

The EP "Power of Lard" is well, well worth checking out, other stuff not so much if at all.

droid
31-08-2015, 11:23 AM
lol. I have the power of lard on vinyl somewhere still.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0htZ7ocCk-Q