Bad influences

jay-z

sublime? early dubstep?

Pulp Fiction?

I like all of these bands to varying degrees but cant think of anything good to come out of

The smiths
Aphex twin
Incredible string band
Nirvana
The fall
Joy division (aside from new order and the cure maybe)
Nick cave
Will oldham
Jesús and Mary chain

If i add oasis and the stone roses might just as well say all the big Manchester groups

luka said:

Ignore me if we done this before but I want to nominate Pauls Boutique

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and, by extension I suppose, steinski

why has paul's boutique been particularly disastrous as an influence?

eminem's career has surely inspired more bad music than almost any other artist

The Beasties video for 'Sabotage' was an early spark for that ironic-cheese, so-bad-it's-good, look-at-my-stupid-fucking-moustache, i'm-afraid-of-genuine-sentiment-so-i'll-just-joke-dance-to-this-"80s"-tune horseshit that plagued most of the 00s.

the dust brothers and their sample based compositions? gave birth to a generation of bad trip hop and underground hip hop? it was bad but not as bad as some other stuff. most probably would have happened without pauls boutique.

nomos said:

The Beasties video for 'Sabotage' was an early spark for that ironic-cheese, so-bad-it's-good, look-at-my-stupid-fucking-moustache, i'm-afraid-of-genuine-sentiment-so-i'll-just-joke-dance-to-this-"80s"-tune horseshit that plagued most of the 00s.

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true, much as i love the original song. but can't blame the BBs alone for the general direction of western popular culture.

Yeah, maybe PB inspired some bad trip hop and underground hip hop...Blue Lines (again much as I like the original record) may be one of the worst influences ever in a similarish vein

so pauls boutique and blue lines unleashed the hordes of bad music like the caspa and early skrillex work of 2009?

what's mid-period skrillex? i wasn't aware he had a career arc (genuine question)

Only Built 4 Cuban Linx taught NYC rappers to actually position themselves as drug dealers thereby utterly killing the movement the Native Tongues fought for, turned Nas into a sycophant and a trend chaser, and by the merits of its strength as an album made all those Wu-Tang records who came before and after which didn't adhere to its aesthetic seem 'goofy' in comparison.

That'd be my best rejoinder to Luka.

But, by extension, it also gave birth to Rick Ross, who luka and I revere.

I am of the opinion that even 'bad' influences in music can be good influences over a long enough period. Either through people reacting against them or taking them on and running with them.

One tune I'd cite as a bad influence, though, is 'Rubber Chicken' by Caspa. (Please ignore the following, luka, as you consider all dubstep a priori shite.) At the time we - that is, me and my loefah/skream/dmz venerating mates - all loved it, PARTICULARLY the 'mad as a brush' second drop where the wobbles go so mad it feels like the tempo is warping. But I feel like this tune, even more perhaps than Coki's tunes, opened the door for dubstep to become DEFINED by wobbles, which meant that by 2009/10 you had DJs playing wobbler after wobbler after wobbler. Although really it only became SUPER offensive post 'Spongebob' (although I still think Coki is a genius, many of those gnarly industrial shit-fits included).

Benny B said:

The fall

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Pavement are confirmed Fall plagiarists, so no

Corpsey said:

But, by extension, it also gave birth to Rick Ross, who luka and I revere.

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No, Rozay is a major label attempt to duplicate the success of Jeezy. Rapping about cocaine outside of NYC was done long before then, Ice-T and etc. Rick Ross was an obvious attempt to duplicate trap rap by a journeyman industry professional. TBF, Jeezy had originally been a Trick Daddy duplicate before he found his voice which was an amalgamation of stuff TI and Gucci were already doing. Also Rick Ross is still viewed as a southern rapper even if we know he's not all that southern and he's remodeled himself into an East Coast artist after hitting the right amount of Southern Rap cred points.

I meant more his whole mafioso schtick, which is what I assume you meant by OB4CL popularising drug dealing, cos as you say rappers as drug dealers was happening before that.

Edit: oh are you talking about NY specifically?

Corpsey said:

I meant more his whole mafioso schtick, which is what I assume you meant by OB4CL popularising drug dealing, cos as you say rappers as drug dealers was happening before that.

Edit: oh are you talking about NY specifically?

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Yeah, and Mafioso/Kingpin roles existed long before Cuban Linx for rappers, that's just 90s NYC critical centricism rewriting history. Shit, Rakim dressed as a fake Mafia don in "Follow The Leader"'s music video...

What Cuban Linx provides is the idea that every rapper within the East Coast should be the kingpin and not the 'thug'. Biggie was probably hinting at that progression already, but it furthers the antagonism against the positivism of post-Native Tongues rap as I'd mentioned in the big 90s rap thread way back when. It allows the 90s NYC scene to flourish again on a commercial pop level but would ultimately lose a lot of critical favor as more often non-genre critics would flock to left-field stuff because it was more adult-oriented or introspective. Rock critics who had turned to West Coast gangster rap for its extremities wouldn't be as impressed by that from NYC because instead it was made for a grandiose sense of self-reward and lacked the narrative-obsessions of West Coast; and usually musically very disco-oriented which reminded them of why they'd rejected rap in the first place.

I also have a huge argument that Illmatic undid the fabric of the rap industry in a powerfully negative way by way of its number of production contributions. A lot of these albums that are canonical classics (which I do actually like a lot) have hugely bad influence in the long run.