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Corpsey
20-12-2015, 06:34 PM
There's something in the air, I'm seeing a lot of tweets about this. Not solely the gentrification, the bandwagon jumping. What's going on?

Rudewhy
20-12-2015, 10:20 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/student/istudents/grime-isn-t-just-music-it-s-about-working-class-struggle-and-its-new-middle-class-fans-need-to-a6777256.html

luka
20-12-2015, 10:28 PM
Er, thanks Poppy. Hasn't this been going on since 2005 though?

luka
20-12-2015, 10:29 PM
Where's tempa t been making money from the last ten years?

luka
20-12-2015, 10:31 PM
Plus things like dirty canvas or straight out of Bethnal were going on a long long time ago.

luka
20-12-2015, 10:32 PM
That cunt prancehall was writing for vice about 10 years ago too and who do you think was reading vice?

luka
20-12-2015, 10:33 PM
He treated grime artists like Bo Selecta treated Craig David

john eden
20-12-2015, 11:36 PM
There's certainly a bunch of people in the provinces who seem keen to pay good money for the grime dvds and mixtapes I am offloading on discogs.

paulynch0
21-12-2015, 12:33 AM
This is what happens with music. A scene develops, the media develops consciousness, a corpsey writes about it for it for pack London (for example), the wider masses accept it, the audience picks up, the artist's fees and awareness increases, eventually it reaches saturation, interest decreases, the next thing takes its place, ad nauseam

The only new difference is every cunt talks about it on twitter now

slackk
21-12-2015, 12:37 AM
Sorry that was me on tapatalk

Corpsey
21-12-2015, 07:46 AM
Haha did anyone read that pack London article I wonder?

It's true though, you can't have it both ways - you either get buzz, and bandwagon jumpers (many of whom will become champions of the music), or you stay underground and nobody makes any money.

Also, isn't it a positive thing if posh kids from the provinces get into grime, if it teaches them to respect a different culture to theirs? But maybe the point luka is making re: prancehall is that grime is treated like a novelty by certain people.

Pandiculate
21-12-2015, 10:12 AM
But maybe the point luka is making re: prancehall is that grime is treated like a novelty by certain people.

I remember getting in the lift at Ace Hotel when Tim & Barry had an event on with a few young white guys as a black guy walked out, first they mistaked him for Stormzy then as soon as the doors closed they proceeded to joke about how blick he was. It's like they feel like they're on a trip to the zoo.

rubberdingyrapids
21-12-2015, 10:54 AM
the hipster events a decade ago were diff. it was still pretty small, interest-wise. it was there, but the scene was less interested in/aware of outsiders. or rather, the 'outsiders' were less important. saying outsiders seems wrong though. it just means the audience isnt who it used to be. i think its just that theres a lot more fans of it (prob starting around the time instrumental grime became a thing and you got all those singles in the charts)). and most of them are outside the working class base it used to be. and when that happens, youre always going to get people liking the novelty/otherness of it.

comments like this though are idk, just stupid -


The middle-class university students who attend live grime shows now, in 2015, probably don’t even recognise the form of cultural appropriation they’re actively taking part in: wearing a North Face snapback to a rave and singing along to Stormzy probably doesn’t sound out any alarm bells - but it should.

whats the alternative? people sitting there reverently like theyre at some sort of anthro-musicology conference?

if youve ever been to a hip hop show, where the rapper invites white ppl to rap along to the n-word, youll know this sort of thing can be awkward. and theres obv some things that white m/c fans should be aware of, that goes without saying (expecting them all to be however, is going to be a bit of a struggle -most people dont care about paying that price of admission). but people are so quick to pull out the cultural appropriation card these days, and engaging in this sort of over vociferous cultural policing, the phrase is soon going to start losing all meaning.


Through art, we have the ‘Army of Instagram’ that sees no issue in taking #VSCO shots of council estate tower blocks, even though they’re not derelict symbols of an old Britain, but the homes of thousands.

what, like this?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/OriginalPirateMaterial.jpg

anyway, obv grime is working class music, but i think that independent piece sort of tries to state its political credentials harder than most of the musicians would (or perhaps be confident in explaining). poppy strikes me as one of these middle class students she spends the whole piece criticising, except shes just trying to show she knows better, and is more culturally aware than the next middle class student. she wont be caught engaging in call and response at a grime show unless its something spoken in standard english. though ok, i suppose its nice shes trying to make them aware of some of the social barriers they might not be aware of.

droid
21-12-2015, 11:10 AM
Er, thanks Poppy. Hasn't this been going on since 2005 though?

It seems Poppie has since gone and deleted her twitter account.

rubberdingyrapids
21-12-2015, 12:59 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/dec/21/shutdown-skepta-best-track-of-2015-grime

john eden
21-12-2015, 01:03 PM
Also, isn't it a positive thing if posh kids from the provinces get into grime, if it teaches them to respect a different culture to theirs? But maybe the point luka is making re: prancehall is that grime is treated like a novelty by certain people.

Well the thing is that neither of those things (posh kids from the provinces and "culture") are monolithic things.

On the one hand, posh white kids get into grime for all sorts of reasons, some of which will be reductive safari-like stereotypes as mentioned on this thread. But others will be more nuanced.

On the other hand, grime presents a pretty reductive version of a "different
culture" anyway given that it is largely about blokes of a certain age from a very specific time and place in London etc.

baboon2004
21-12-2015, 01:07 PM
In a different but related development, Logan Sama causing (minor) Twitter storm by saying that grime is not black music

rubberdingyrapids
21-12-2015, 01:20 PM
logans a funny one.

but im sure theres plenty of white people involved in black music genres who have difficulty calling them black music genres. even on dissensus.

baboon2004
21-12-2015, 01:40 PM
ha yes, possibly true. In this case I think he's backed himself into a corner with a flimsy/obviously false argument, through trying to defend to 'newcomers' his own importance to, and longevity in, the grime scene...it's all got a bit mixed up

john eden
21-12-2015, 01:45 PM
There's a good point to be made about grime's multi-ethnic origins, but saying it's not black music isn't it.

rubberdingyrapids
21-12-2015, 01:46 PM
im a fan of logan, and think hes got really good taste actually. not seen the twitter stuff, but hes always been a bit defensive hasnt he? i think he oscillates between knowing the reality (grime being made by a majority of young black males and how this may affect its perception/reception) and wanting to ignore it perhaps because of what he might have to think about if he acknowledges it. id like to know how logan feels about it actually. there are prob more white DJs in grime than white MCs though right? so hes not alone.

lot of races in grime -
theres a few asian (south and east asian) producers
white people
but obv, the majority is black artists

baboon2004
21-12-2015, 01:55 PM
he's been getting a fair amount of support too, but most of it is missing the point, simply reaffirming that Logan has been important to the grime scene.

CrowleyHead
21-12-2015, 03:38 PM
He named himself after the time a Canadian Superhero was masquerading as a Samurai, we all could've seen this coming.

mistersloane
21-12-2015, 03:41 PM
I really, really don't think that's the right use of the word "decadence"

rubberdingyrapids
21-12-2015, 03:44 PM
catching up on logans twitter feed.

Logan Sama
@djlogansama
Forget the uni students who discovered Grime in 2015, these people who decided to become social activists for Grime in 2015 are funnier!


Logan SamaVerified account
‏@djlogansama
Them people who've been listening to grime for 3 years who think I can't play it "because it's for blacks". I hear you and your ignorance. ��

john eden
21-12-2015, 03:54 PM
Ah ok, the quotes make a bit more sense. "It's for blacks" is very different to "it's black music".

baboon2004
21-12-2015, 04:08 PM
Dunno how to directly quote from Twitter on here, but:

"Its a direct evolution from Garage. With more MCs. Its not black"

rubberdingyrapids
21-12-2015, 04:11 PM
who said that?

baboon2004
21-12-2015, 04:41 PM
Logan Sama. it was in a twitter dialogue with a guy I used to know and who asked Logan to clarify his position clearly on the matter (which not many others had done, to be fair)

ah ok got the link - https://twitter.com/djlogansama/status/678894161349754880?lang=en

rubberdingyrapids
21-12-2015, 05:10 PM
hmm, yeah, idk, logan seems a bit inconsistent.


house is black music, everything that has stemmed from it is black music


OTOH absolutist statements like this (not from logan, from someone else in that twitter convo) arent really right either.

baboon2004
21-12-2015, 05:22 PM
i think with LS, he's been personally affronted by some people telling him he doesn't belong in the scene (as well he might be) and he's ended up saying something that doesn't stack up in order to protect his own position, and as a result of saying this has got a whole new group of people riled, who never doubted his position within grime in the first place.

rubberdingyrapids
21-12-2015, 05:35 PM
yeah, i could be wrong, but i reckon logan is prob already self conscious about being a white guy in grime. i do think hes probably had to fight a bit for his position though, as well as defend the genre, and put up with peoples attitudes towards it, which has prob made him a bit defensive.

baboon2004
21-12-2015, 05:41 PM
everyone at some point or other has ended up making objectively-dubious arguments when they feel personally slighted - it's just strange when it ends up so publicly on twitter, and when it cuts across such contentious issues about cultural appropriation etc etc

benjybars
21-12-2015, 07:09 PM
Yeah it's weird that this thread is appearing now in late 2015.. as other people have said, surely this has been going on for ages?

Re: Prancehall - Luka, you've always been up calling him out in a big way (not the first time you've called him a cunt!) but was he really that bad? Surely his blog/interest in grime came from a genuine place? He properly seemed to have a sincere love and enthusiasm for the music and artists? I dunno, maybe I'm just giving him a pass cos at the time as a white middle-class grime fan I related to the blog of another white middle-class grime fan..

It also says something about the longevity of grime when someone like me who went to all those Straight outta Bethnal and Dirty Canvas raves etc can be like "don't chat to me about jumping on the grime bandwaggon, I was doing that shit ten years ago etc etc"

Will be very interesting to see what this thread is saying in another ten years!

droid
21-12-2015, 10:06 PM
Prancehall was the heat magazine of grime and was obviously coming from a position of deep affection for the scene.

Corpsey
21-12-2015, 10:36 PM
One thing I was going to mention re: making fun of grime is that the scene itself has never seemed entirely po-facdd to me (an understatement). While there's obviously a lot of deadly-serious, angry grime there's also a lot of larger than life characters, silly voices and catchphrases. Actually this is one of its many charms - listening to sets where there's all this aggressive gun talk but at the same time you can tell on another level its mates having a laugh.

As droid says I don't see prancehall as being like bo selecta really, since bo selecta took the piss out of Craig David e.g. without any affection for him whatsoever.

Sectionfive
22-12-2015, 02:11 AM
Aside from regrets that it didn't happen for more artists sooner, I see very little downside to the current boom period tbh. Haven't there been enough post mortems on grime's failure to break through sustainably, instead, there have never been more DJs playing it. The whole spectrum from chart to club is relatively healthy. This week Stormzy is battling for xmas number one, Leshurr is touring America, Slimzee & Slackk did a Sunday on Rinse. Boxed doing their first full release. The only one not happy at the moment is Wiley and the impending pitter patter of tiny feet.

As for gentrification, every wave of new fans to any scene brings fresh ignorance and more distance from the roots. But I reckon there are far more pressing structural and institutional issues than students wearing their hats backwards. BBK, Butterz, etc, are happy enough to shift the merch I'm sure.

I guess Logan's position is a bit more nuanced and understandable than what's coming across on twitter. Himself, Geeneus, Slimzee have been pivotal of course and all deserve their due but grime clearly has had significantly less white input than most other genres in the UK family. Not least considering the prominence of Africans in comparison to any scene previously.

Corpsey
22-12-2015, 09:27 AM
One of the interesting aspects of this latest argument is that some old riddims are now big again, but with a wider audience (Functions on the Low e.g.). I think that's a weird aspect of this grime resurgence - it's sort of repeating what it did the first time but with much more success commercially, as opposed to coming out in a 'new and improved' way. (Not saying grime hasn't moved on, I know Butterz e.g. have pushed things forward a lot. I'm talking about the stuff that's blowing up more.)

I don't mind personally, I think it's great that Skepta is doing grime tunes rather than shitty trance-pop hybrid songs.

Actually interesting that prancehall was brought up cos it seems like Noisey/VICE are somehow connected to all this. Are they just hitching to the bandwagon? How did grime suddenly become popular again? Was it the Drake cosign? I guess German Whip came before that. Someone sketch it out for me.

Corpsey
22-12-2015, 09:30 AM
Well the thing is that neither of those things (posh kids from the provinces and "culture") are monolithic things.

On the one hand, posh white kids get into grime for all sorts of reasons, some of which will be reductive safari-like stereotypes as mentioned on this thread. But others will be more nuanced.

On the other hand, grime presents a pretty reductive version of a "different
culture" anyway given that it is largely about blokes of a certain age from a very specific time and place in London etc.

That last point is very true, very interesting. Obviously for fairly personal reasons I'm fascinated with why it is that middle-class white kids are and have been so captivated by working-class (mostly) black culture.

Oh and I also realised reading the above that I'm being disingenuous if I pretend that I'M not a posh white kid, to some extent. Parents are both teachers, went to a comprehensive, etc., but I'm certainly posh compared to many.

rubberdingyrapids
22-12-2015, 10:05 AM
working class culture has always been a source of fascination for middle class people whatever the country. working class masculinity in particular is seen as a 'purer' form of masculinity. add blackness into it and you have a whole load of other projections.

it is funny though how grime is the only british dance genre to achieve its greatest success a full decade pretty much after it began. everything else made its mark much quicker (jungle, garage, rave, etc etc). even dubstep took off earlier than grime, if not exactly commercially. it will be interesting to see what happens. maybe in ten years time, we will look at eskimo and those early tracks and think theyre just primitive compared to whats being made (whereas right now, it seems a lot of people think a lot of the newer stuff isnt as hard as what came before it, but maybe this is simply progression, rather than gentrification). grime seems to have bubbled/muddled along, rather than done what the other scenes did, which is sort of start with an underground base, then explode into pop, then become something for the converted. OTOH, and i might be wrong, as i dont listen to it religiously like i used to now, but im not sure i hear enough of where grime is *going*, rather than interesting tweaks, or reworks of things that were done a decade or so back.

Corpsey
22-12-2015, 10:23 AM
You might be right, but to me the 'primitive' stuff is the most stunning to this day, precisely because it IS so 'primitive'. I'm putting air quotes around that cos I don't actually think it's unmusical or whatever.

Pandiculate
22-12-2015, 01:47 PM
Actually interesting that prancehall was brought up cos it seems like Noisey/VICE are somehow connected to all this. Are they just hitching to the bandwagon? How did grime suddenly become popular again? Was it the Drake cosign? I guess German Whip came before that. Someone sketch it out for me.

To be fair I would say at the least Noisey and Vice got on the bandwagon first, they were doing videos for that Chronik EP way back in May '13. Compared to FADER and the like they were miles ahead.

Whether that was just one writer forcing the issue and being right though I dunno

owengriffiths
22-12-2015, 06:00 PM
Maybe something to take into consideration- Radio 1 is surprisingly adventurous with their daytime playlist so it wouldn't surprise me if Grime gets a look in. A good portion of their tracks are not obvious chart toppers, some might not even be from major labels. Some of the stuff they play, it's safe to say would flop if it didn't get that level of exposure. At times it's like the tunes that were on Gilles Peterson's GTA station. Commercially it doesn't make sense for a mainstream station to play that sort stuff. In my part of the world 'adventurist' radio programming would be to include camp nashville nickleback clones- it might be massive in the States but there's little incentive for local stations to play it as no European label is offering tons of payola to make it worth their while. Radio 1's equivalent of this would be things like George the poet 'Cat D', or German Whip- neither are obvious hits. Especially when you consider how catchy the hooks of Garage top tens circa 2000 were.

Elijah
22-12-2015, 06:19 PM
This topic is confusing.

More people are listening to it, and going out to it then they have been ever. Far beyond the reach of the traditional platforms like Rinse.

That brings new ears and opportunities. Not much negative to be taken from that.

It still is niche music clearly that can make a lot of noise on the underground and mainstream press.

From the time I've been listening to and going out to the music (over ten years now) it's always been a mixed audience, and i've found the people most protective of who can or can't listen to Grime feel some ownership over it because they knew about it from early. That goes for white and black people.

Noisey, Fader etc don't cover the music people complain, when they do people complain. Always has been, and always will be the case.

This year has been jokes really been so much hype, at times not enough product to justify it, but loads of great singles and moments. Next year the obvious next level is some of the bigger artists delivering albums.

My only interest really is hearing good music and being in environments where I can enjoy it live, and there was loads of that this year.

john eden
22-12-2015, 06:55 PM
One of the interesting aspects of this latest argument is that some old riddims are now big again, but with a wider audience (Functions on the Low e.g.). I think that's a weird aspect of this grime resurgence - it's sort of repeating what it did the first time but with much more success commercially, as opposed to coming out in a 'new and improved' way. (Not saying grime hasn't moved on, I know Butterz e.g. have pushed things forward a lot. I'm talking about the stuff that's blowing up more.)


Not actually that weird, just more version culture. Especially as lots of the new audience won't have heard those tracks first time round and they are still absolutely banging.

I actually think Grime almost HAD to have a resurgence, because it is so strong and pretty much everything else seems so weak right now.

john eden
22-12-2015, 07:00 PM
it is funny though how grime is the only british dance genre to achieve its greatest success a full decade pretty much after it began. everything else made its mark much quicker (jungle, garage, rave, etc etc). even dubstep took off earlier than grime, if not exactly commercially.

I think that's partly because of the vocals (particularly the raw vocals in the early days) - it slows down how accepting people are of a music and slows the spread of it. Dubstep was always going to appeal to an international audience because it didn't come with so much baggage - easy to make dance bangers and coffee table stuff to appeal to teens and middle aged people alike.

CrowleyHead
22-12-2015, 07:28 PM
Also gotta figure that for a lot of these fresh faces to grime, they're approaching it as remixing the canon would happen in dance music. Obvious Jungle/Techno classics get remixed by guys who want to impress their peers all the time, no?

I laugh @ Logan's situation because I think he's outraged and surely he's had to have dealt with it from people who are more close-minded and just vitriolic than this writer no? And to be fair, there is a tiresome aspect when there's unsympathetic kids from a safer aspect of life playing 'explorer'. Logan's not one of THOSE GUYS, but his deflection paints him in that corner of perception.

I do have memories of a popular grime blog/production figure once being 'disgusted' with that footage of Titch getting himself thrown off the plane for being unruly. There's an obvious clash in a sense with how wide-reaching an appeal grime has, and more often than not you have to confront people who live and conduct themselves differently...

Certain people have a sort of desire to remove the people who judge from ivory towers, or question the power granted onto whiter or higher in class figures naturally because society is fucked. I think the dialog is generated in a bit of adolescent outrage and can be hyperbolic, but its always been there.

Put it this way, one blogger who posted on Dissensus once suggested elsewhere that it was 'confidence' that made JME or Jamal Edwards a success. That's true, but its also a wide-range of issues for some artists/producers/DJs that can help them or impede them. Its home-life, its sociability, its talent, its how the person reflects on that talent. No different with any genre.

Sectionfive
22-12-2015, 08:14 PM
Some interesting background from Sian Anderson here http://www.thefader.com/2015/12/21/how-pirate-radio-made-grime-great-again


Just a few months into our pirate radio dream, in June 2010, Rinse were given a community FM broadcast license by U.K. communications regulator Ofcom. Among other changes, my show got censored. It made a huge difference: I ended up not playing tunes from my favourite artistsólike Merky ACE (the rawest MC in south east London), Chronik (an even rawer MC from east Londonís veteran grime crew Slew Dem), and moreóbecause the tracks sounded so awful as radio edits with the curse words scrubbed out. And with this being grimeóas lyrically uncompromising as it getsómost of those MCs werenít going to pay for the studio time to make clean versions of their tracks. Like me, MCs do not want to be censored. Grime has always been about freely venting your frustrationsóso getting a singer on the chorus and remembering to use language your grandmother can relate to defeats the point.




With misrepresentation of grime rife in other mainstream media, itís crucial that we continue to support the underground stations that represent talent in its rawest form and keep them alive. Mainstream radio will forever be great at bumping these artists up to the next commercial level when they are ready to convert what they do into radio-edited MP3s. But it wonít be able to offer them the hours of unlimited and uncensored airtime they can use as practical tools to become the best spitters in the gameónot with the logistics of adverts, hourly news, brand associations, and content warnings.

The grime experience is inseparable from the pirate radio experience. If you want to feel true grime in 2016, donít solely get sucked into the commercial hype. Although cozy studios, sparkling wines, and VIP areas in raves have been the norm this year, donít underestimate listening to pirate, learning the bars, going to a grime rave, getting bruised in a mosh pit, and rewinding a back to back MC set 10 times just to catch all the punchlines. Those luxuries didnít birth our current leaders in grimeóand those luxuries wonít be the things that birth our next generation of grime stars either.

Patrick Swayze
22-12-2015, 09:03 PM
I swear grime keeps having these identity crises

rubberdingyrapids
23-12-2015, 09:37 AM
You might be right, but to me the 'primitive' stuff is the most stunning to this day, precisely because it IS so 'primitive'. I'm putting air quotes around that cos I don't actually think it's unmusical or whatever.


i still hear old tunes and am amazed at how bracing they are, but i wonder if in years to come, we will hear it like we do some of those old chicago house tunes for example (or 50s rock n roll, etc) and think, wow that sounds... old. or 'simple'. which would not be a bad thing. it would mean the music has gone somewhere else.

i dont think grime is having an identity crisis though. everyone seems happy about where its going. theres just a kind of recognition that things have changed. but whats the alternative? it was obv around 2008-ish that the original audience wasnt sticking with it as faithfully, or in those numbers at least, so something had to give. and this idea of middle class fans/producers diluting or misunderstanding it, well maybe they might a bit, thats what happens when a new group enters a genre, but hip hop still made some of its best music when it was popular with white middle class teens, so who cares really. (though obv when it tilts in favour of one audience over the 'core' one, that might be when you get problems, or a loss of original intent, at least)

Corpsey
23-12-2015, 09:52 AM
edit: I've decided to shahut my mout cos I'm out of my depth. LOL

Sectionfive
27-12-2015, 06:28 PM
inexplicable slow motion shot of tobz drinking rosť here


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_-UEOfmlPQ

rubberdingyrapids
04-01-2016, 11:20 AM
are mode fm and radar radio actually ON the fm dial? otherwise i dont really get that fader piece by sian anderson.

http://www.thefader.com/2015/12/21/h...me-great-again

only skim read it so might have missed some obvious details. but i dont need a piece on how the pirates made grime a decade back. i wanna hear it on pirates today.

Pandiculate
06-01-2016, 12:47 AM
are mode fm and radar radio actually ON the fm dial? otherwise i dont really get that fader piece by sian anderson.

http://www.thefader.com/2015/12/21/h...me-great-again

only skim read it so might have missed some obvious details. but i dont need a piece on how the pirates made grime a decade back. i wanna hear it on pirates today.

I don't think they are I think they're online only. I think an actual radio is pretty alien to most young people nowadays, It's just an app on your phone you never use.

rubberdingyrapids
13-01-2016, 10:59 AM
semi related -
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/12/what-behind-deprivation-east-london-newham-unemployment


What’s behind the huge fall in deprivation in east London? And no, it’s not gentrification
Newham council’s scheme to tackle unemployment and skills shortages has helped it go from being the second poorest local authority in England to the 25th

Patrick Swayze
13-01-2016, 08:08 PM
Radar Radio is run by the son of billionaire Mike Ashley (of Sports Direct and Newcastle Utd) lol

Wasn't Geeneus' dad a cabbie?

not sure if that says anything about the gentrification of grime specifically, or just music/the arts in general...

petergunn
14-01-2016, 02:12 AM
One of the interesting aspects of this latest argument is that some old riddims are now big again, but with a wider audience (Functions on the Low e.g.). I think that's a weird aspect of this grime resurgence - it's sort of repeating what it did the first time but with much more success commercially, as opposed to coming out in a 'new and improved' way. (Not saying grime hasn't moved on, I know Butterz e.g. have pushed things forward a lot. I'm talking about the stuff that's blowing up more.)

I don't mind personally, I think it's great that Skepta is doing grime tunes rather than shitty trance-pop hybrid songs.

Actually interesting that prancehall was brought up cos it seems like Noisey/VICE are somehow connected to all this. Are they just hitching to the bandwagon? How did grime suddenly become popular again? Was it the Drake cosign? I guess German Whip came before that. Someone sketch it out for me.
This really makes all of here who thought this stuff was amazing 10 years ago and wondered why it wasn't bigger seem like geniuses, huh? :p



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

rubberdingyrapids
14-01-2016, 10:28 AM
the old riddims thing seems to have started about the time butterz started i think (not sure). i just remember tuning into lots of shows and being surprised suddenly how it seemed okay to cut in old tracks with new ones so freely, compared to just a few years before when it was like a bombardment of brand new instrumentals. prob thats to do with net culture. or something going on in the genre (people leaving, disenchantment from djs, some stasis maybe). but it seems to have just continued from there. so now you have lots of refixes, people vocalling ancient tracks (like stormzy's functions on a low version), re-releases/re-issues (like what butterz have done), and a general back and forth between the past and 'today'.

Pandiculate
14-01-2016, 10:50 AM
Radar Radio is run by the son of billionaire Mike Ashley (of Sports Direct and Newcastle Utd) lol

Wasn't Geeneus' dad a cabbie?

not sure if that says anything about the gentrification of grime specifically, or just music/the arts in general...

can't really say he got there because of that though, though it might've helped with affording the Brick Lane location. Didn't he get his start by interning at Night Slugs after meeting Bok Bok in a smoking area? I can see your point though, most people just can't afford to do an unpaid internship like that. That's why fashion is so upper class.

To be honest, I'd say that working class people who were in the mix at the time really don't have the nostalgia for radio like people who's only connection to grime was radio rips do.

john eden
14-01-2016, 10:58 AM
old riddims, represses etc - I assume people have seen this?
http://www.reloadz.bigcartel.com/

Elijah
14-01-2016, 02:53 PM
at the time when we started I think people were still playing old instrumentals, or going back to them because they didn't think anything was better at the time, and there wasn't as many people making it anymore. We used to go at the other DJs for playing old tunes a lot on Rinse.

What we tried to do is stretch out a bit what could run really. From when we started to like end of 2012 some people wouldn't even say what we were doing was 'real grime'.

The major thing that changed at this time though was the producers actually becoming DJs themselves, them starting to play at clubs and the rest and then I guess the flood of new music came from that. Before that if tunes weren't getting played by a hand full of people it was a lot more difficult to get heard.

Note we never reissued anything. We tried with Ghetto Kyote, but it didn't happen in the end back in 2013.

Last year we released 'Scars' though from Newham Gens that was made in 2005, but it never got released for some reason that I still haven't worked out yet. Ha.

rubberdingyrapids
14-01-2016, 02:56 PM
i dunno if the original scars came out, but scars 2 came out on dirtee stank (it is one of the all time greatest grime instrumentals IMO)

Elijah
14-01-2016, 05:29 PM
i dunno if the original scars came out, but scars 2 came out on dirtee stank (it is one of the all time greatest grime instrumentals IMO)

it didnt, hence me unearthing it.

and yea scars 2 is peak. Sick tune

Rudewhy
15-01-2016, 08:56 AM
can't really say he got there because of that though, though it might've helped with affording the Brick Lane location.

Rinse is based on Brick Lane, not Radar

owengriffiths
16-01-2016, 03:49 PM
Wasn't Geeneus' dad a cabbie?

He's Mitch Winehouse's son from a previous marriage

Sectionfive
16-01-2016, 07:47 PM
He's Mitch Winehouse's son from a previous marriage

no way? small world innit

owengriffiths
17-01-2016, 04:55 PM
It makes sense. Both him and Amy Winehouse's dads drive taxis. How many taxi drivers can there be in London? ;)

luka
18-01-2016, 07:52 AM
That Alexander mcqueen too... He's dead and his dad was a cabbie. Coincidence?

Corpsey
18-01-2016, 09:13 AM
Uber: so evil the 'U' should have an umlaut over it.

petergunn
18-01-2016, 05:19 PM
the weird thing about the grime gentrification / fetishization is that it simplifies grime to a specific set of sounds... the low fi /8 bit sounding eski /squarewave stuff

which is fine, but a certain point it runs the risk of rewriting history, bc back in 04-05, someone with a sound like Davinche was just as much a part of grime as Wiley... or a record like "i can see u" is a classic, but doesn't sound anything like eski beat...

benjybars
18-01-2016, 07:58 PM
He's Mitch Winehouse's son from a previous marriage

wait hang on, are you saying Geeneus and Amy Winehouse had the same dad? is that for reals?

owengriffiths
19-01-2016, 02:15 PM
I'm telling porkies. I should think if Geeneus actually was Amy's half brother it would've come out years ago. And he would've signed her rather than Katy B.

Corpsey
29-01-2016, 05:20 PM
http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2015/01/privileged-are-taking-over-arts-without-grit-pop-culture-doomed

This article only mentions grime in passing but it's relevant to this thread, until a general thread for gentrification of music appears?

luka
29-01-2016, 11:09 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BBH991SG3Xa/

Sectionfive
30-01-2016, 09:11 PM
DJ in a pub here every other week and played more grime last night than any time previously. Had been inching bits in here and there to see what I could get away but did around 45 minutes at the peak of the night and it went off nicely. Given I started about a year ago playing mostly old Philly records its been some distance to get to a point where Faze Miyake, Trim 'do your thing' and Dizzee's 'get by' are the centrepiece of the night. The sound leaning so heavy on America now has definitely made people more receptive, or maybe even unaware they are listening to grime, but no denying the high standard of stuff out in the last few years has really helped. A reboot of Terror Danjah's r n'g project would rack up the hits in the current climate I think

Two new nights starting in town next month too, not by me but both with grime on the flyer for fist time since I was doing it nine years ago.