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Benny B
01-02-2016, 03:42 PM
though it rends my heart I had to leave out the charlatans.

and the carpets were from oldham before anyone complains...

luka
01-02-2016, 03:51 PM
Shit city shit bands. Stevenage and Romford have given more to this country than Manchester. Having said that I've got a soft spot for oasis

droid
01-02-2016, 03:55 PM
Thats really tough. Dont know if I can pick just one.

Corpsey
01-02-2016, 04:03 PM
Pleasurrre at the fairground on the wayyyyyy

luka
01-02-2016, 04:09 PM
The two people I've heard described as 'Britains greatest r&b singer' are Mick Hucknall and Brian Harvey.

rubberdingyrapids
01-02-2016, 04:11 PM
simply red had some CHOONS.
i was gonna say they had some great pop soul records but thats a bit of an insult isnt it. so ill just say that simply red made some of the best uk soul records of the 80s. brand nubian wouldnt have sampled them if they werent legit. i dont know about the albums as i never liked them that much, but moneys too tight to mention, if you dont know me by now, and a couple of others, they stand up i think (not going on youtube to find out though as lifes too short).

re: take that, gary should give up his solo career and just write for robbie.

luka
01-02-2016, 04:27 PM
Simply Red had tunes but the '80s UK soul scene was very strong and I don't think simply red are top of the heap.

droid
01-02-2016, 04:31 PM
Stop it. Simply Red will never be rehabilitated.

rubberdingyrapids
01-02-2016, 04:40 PM
theyre not top of the pops, but they had some classic singles, its indisputable.

i know every single song on the smiths greatest hits comp (and hatful of hollow) but never got into their albums, not sure why. cant nominate the band though as morrissey is prone to spouting incredible stupidity and never seems quite as clever as people (rock critics) seem to say he is.

Benny B
01-02-2016, 04:41 PM
I just knew simply read would draw the heat in this discussion. My dad used to play that 1st album and it was fine, might even be a couple of deep cuts on there iirc. It hucknalls hideous appearance that's the real turn off unfortunately.
AND they practically invented UK funky with "fairground", remember?

droid
01-02-2016, 04:43 PM
Nononononononono Stopitstopitstopit

luka
01-02-2016, 04:44 PM
'deep cuts'

luka
01-02-2016, 04:45 PM
Sweet it's aggravating droid lay it on more thickly! Droid wasn't he an investor in blood and fire? Didn't he basically invent reggae?

luka
01-02-2016, 04:48 PM
Aren't his politics impeccably socialist? My favourite is holding back the years, probably cos of the brand nubian connection but it's a great song in its own right

rubberdingyrapids
01-02-2016, 04:53 PM
just googled them. forgot about moneys too tight to mention, a new flame, and their cover of make me feel brand new. face it, mick is up there as one of britain's great white soul voices. forget rod, van, and all the rest of them.

droid
01-02-2016, 04:53 PM
Sweet it's aggravating droid lay it on more thickly! Droid wasn't he an investor in blood and fire?

The blood & fire thing is literally his only redeeming feature and doesn't come close to compensating for simply red's ruination of 80's pop.

droid
01-02-2016, 04:54 PM
Id rate De Burgh over Hucknall.

luka
01-02-2016, 04:55 PM
How old are you droid? You must be ancient. Always assumed we were peers

droid
01-02-2016, 04:56 PM
lol. Think Im actually slightly younger than you.

droid
01-02-2016, 04:57 PM
But you're correct in that Ive been an old man since I was at least 16.

luka
01-02-2016, 05:03 PM
How can you have any memories of '80s pop then?

rubberdingyrapids
01-02-2016, 05:05 PM
can we have martin hannett in this poll?

Leo
01-02-2016, 05:11 PM
i'm older than all of you and it's all about the buzzcocks!

seriously: great singles band and great first three albums, growing up in public from one-chord wonders to arty post-punk pioneers in just two years. ok, forget about most of the later stuff but still.

and will always have soft spot for the fall, but not since their 80s-90s stuff.

droid
01-02-2016, 05:11 PM
Dunno. Would've been about 5/6 when Simply Red began their descent to the nadir of pop... dont have any memories of the early 80s at all apart from saving up Kellogs coupons for a 7" copy of Paul Young's 'wherever I lay my hat'.. wouldve been '84 i guess?

luka
01-02-2016, 05:20 PM
I saved up weetabix coupons and got a bananarama cassette. That's my only memory

CrowleyHead
01-02-2016, 05:30 PM
"Holding Back The Years" would've been sampled by Tupac if he'd lived another 2 years.

luka
01-02-2016, 05:44 PM
Something about that soft focus expensively produced blue eyed soul that meshes perfectly with west coast rap music

Benny B
01-02-2016, 07:07 PM
http://rathergood.com/holding/

luka
01-02-2016, 07:26 PM
A guy called Gerald is a funny one cos voodoo ray is perfect, platonic, but if you look at his oeuvre as a whole, it's nothing special

CrowleyHead
01-02-2016, 08:12 PM
He's also a twat.

Mr. Tea
01-02-2016, 08:17 PM
http://rathergood.com/holding/

:D

http://rathergood.com/mickey/

Sectionfive
01-02-2016, 08:21 PM
they practically invented UK funky with "fairground", remember?

Samples

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP9qTCY9mWA

which was massive in its day

Would give Mick major kudos for sharing his deep pockets with B&F however it's difficult to sympathise with someone who wrote this (http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2006/feb/05/magazine.features7) :eek:

trza
01-02-2016, 09:10 PM
which samples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_SKwCynURI

droid
01-02-2016, 09:24 PM
A guy called Gerald is a funny one cos voodoo ray is perfect, platonic, but if you look at his oeuvre as a whole, it's nothing special

Juicebox was one of the most idiosyncratic and overlooked of hardcore/jungle labels, and most of his 90's output was stellar.

luka
01-02-2016, 09:50 PM
We like the same genres but not the same records as a rule

droid
01-02-2016, 10:04 PM
We like the same genres but not the same records as a rule

Have you listened to the JB back catalogue anytime recently?

You should.

Sectionfive
01-02-2016, 11:57 PM
Juicebox was one of the most idiosyncratic and overlooked of hardcore/jungle labels, and most of his 90's output was stellar.

+1

The BST LP stil stands up pretty well as does that Digital Bad Boy EP but 'energy' alone puts him up there. Besides Voodoo Ray there is Rhythm Of Life other great acid house tracks. There are few who managed to do house, techno and jungle well.

mistersloane
02-02-2016, 01:53 AM
King of The Slums are the best band to have ever come out of Manchester.

droid
02-02-2016, 10:10 AM
+1

The BST LP still stands up pretty well as does that Digital Bad Boy EP but 'energy' alone puts him up there. Besides Voodoo Ray there is Rhythm Of Life other great acid house tracks. There are few who managed to do house, techno and jungle well.

Reminding myself how good that label was. Somewhere between Reinforced & Ibiza. A serious contender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8Uxlvk9UZA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oGnuLfrqDI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSddo6wrnx8

droid
02-02-2016, 10:15 AM
BTW - there's 'digital' bad boy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0eZ2N5wPfc

& '28 gun' bad boy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfLZntnNYMw

And IIRC, there was only 1 release and a few months between them.

Benny B
02-02-2016, 10:22 AM
can we have martin hannett in this poll?

big fan of this. like if CAN came from salford. the inner sleeve certainly left an impression on me aged 14

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s278/dogyears_photos/bummed.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/dogyears_photos/media/bummed.jpg.html)

Corpsey
02-02-2016, 11:26 AM
Do you lot reckon Simply Red would be so reviled if Mick Hucknall wasn't a ginge?

I was sort of joking when I voted for them but OTOH I genuinely do like some of their songs. I also really like Jamiroquai so what can I say? I'm a tasteless kind of guy. Perhaps my cultivation of a more 'high-brow' taste is merely a means of compensating for my deep sense of self-loathing at ACTUALLY liking cheesy, sentimental music with soaring key changes?

I really like The Smiths, tbh. One of the funniest bands I know of.

I was a huge Oasis fan as a yoot and though in retrospect I can see why people hated them I still rate their earlier stuff and although Noel and Liam are both twats they're both much less twatty than Albarn and James. Particularly Alex Bloody James. (Also like some Blur songs.)

droid
02-02-2016, 11:28 AM
I saved up weetabix coupons and got a bananarama cassette. That's my only memory

Here we are:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9VwrXjtH200/T_2vGTTC-yI/AAAAAAAADHA/U2GwQECzs6U/s1600/P1010332.JPG

Yours was the B-side of Brain's tape. 85/86

Brain's Cassette (this is the one with a torn label, so I don't know which side is which):
?.1. Bucks Fizz - If You Can't Stand The Heat
?.2. Thomson Twins - We Are Detective
?.1. Bananarama - Robert De Niro's Waiting
?.2. ABC - The Look Of Love

http://aurallyyours.blogspot.ie/2012/07/weetabix-top-trax-top-trax-ii-various.html

droid
02-02-2016, 11:29 AM
Anyone who could choose Oasis over the Roses is clearly insane.

rubberdingyrapids
02-02-2016, 11:55 AM
i wanna be adored has one of the best basslines of any of these bands.

luka
02-02-2016, 12:48 PM
Wow droid! That's exactly it!

luka
02-02-2016, 12:49 PM
Oasis is a much better band than stone roses in my opinion. Liam much better front man than Ian Brown. I do really like I wanna be a door �� but that's their only good song

I remember reading the Mick Hucknall interview in the Observer and yeah it's charmless but on the other hand if I'd been bullied and abused and mocked my whole life and ended up a famous supermodel shagging millionaire I would probably want to stick two fingers up at the world too

rubberdingyrapids
02-02-2016, 01:09 PM
lets do birmingham after this so we can talk about ub40.

Corpsey
02-02-2016, 02:55 PM
The way Liam sings is I suppose John Lennon by way of John Lydon, it's one of their best aspects - ''Ah was lurrrrkin for some ack-sheyonnnn''.

Quite like the stone roses too although only a few songs stick out for me - all the obvious ones.

Corpsey
02-02-2016, 02:55 PM
Was manchester actually the second city of grime cos I remember reading that somewhere but I reckon it might have been tony wilson chatting shit

rubberdingyrapids
02-02-2016, 03:16 PM
he signed that group raw-t (sic?) to his new label at the time IIRC. they were alright. obv theres mark one and virus and a few others too (but tony wilson didnt sign them).


John Lennon by way of John Lydon,


liam's two top faves!

i like his voice a lot actually.

CrowleyHead
02-02-2016, 03:51 PM
@Corpse; You got Virus Syndicate as MCs, Mark One and Plastician had some decent runs as DJs/Producers... But that was it, wasn't it? Still might've been more than any other cities produced.

In regards to Oasis vs. Roses, Noel Gallagher is a better conman than anything, the Stone Roses are marks. Plus Ian Brown is absolutely fucking dreadful as a solo artist.

That said, this is a perfect moment.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7wK9on_AL-k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Corpsey
02-02-2016, 04:06 PM
I think I was just immature enough to really love Oasis when they were at their height of popularity. I was too young to question the nonsensical lyrics, or know where they'd ripped their riffs from, or to think of them as retrograde or nasty. I liked that they were loud, I liked the melodies, I liked the yobbish swagger, and I particularly liked that they were singing about ceeeegarettes and alcohoooool.

rubberdingyrapids
02-02-2016, 04:14 PM
nonsensical lyrics
retrograde
nasty
yobbish swagger
ceeeegarettes and alcohoooool.

what more do you want from music?

Sectionfive
02-02-2016, 08:04 PM
Simply Red & Jamiroquai are practically Stax & Motown in a UK doul scene that included Lighthouse Family. Well not Jamiroquai but you get the point.

john eden
02-02-2016, 09:41 PM
That's my only memory

And they say weed is a harmless drug.

mistersloane
03-02-2016, 12:25 AM
Plus Ian Brown is absolutely fucking dreadful as a solo artist.


Nah, he's got a really really good bunch of songs in there. He'll have a brilliant "Greatest Hits".

rubberdingyrapids
03-02-2016, 10:16 AM
Simply Red & Jamiroquai are practically Stax & Motown in a UK doul scene that included Lighthouse Family. Well not Jamiroquai but you get the point.

jamiroquai and simply red werent the kings of uk soul. though jay kay had quite a lot of good-great songs. also, no one includes lighthouse family (or m people while were here).

luka
03-02-2016, 10:47 AM
Yeah kids today need to learn how big the UK was in the '80s R&b scene. Lost their way in the '90s though for whatever reason

Corpsey
03-02-2016, 10:57 AM
So who're we talking in terms of UK soul?

Gabrielle? (One-time Brian Harvey collaborator)

rubberdingyrapids
03-02-2016, 11:12 AM
hard to say them without people LOLing as they are usually used as punchlines on things like never mind the buzzcocks but things like early soul II soul (e.g. fairplay), loose ends, omar, mica paris, young disciples, jhelisa, sade obviously who still sells out arenas, lewis taylor, and yes, i would include jamiroquai. on the slightly more electronic side, i have a soft spot for a couple attica blues things. king britt did an amazing remix of their what do you want single (dont know how id feel about it today though, same for a lot of broken beat stuff, though i thought new sector movements were good at the time).

luka
03-02-2016, 11:14 AM
Loose ends, Sade, soul II soul, i-level, Rome jefferies, junior, etc etc

craner
03-02-2016, 11:14 AM
He means stuff like Loose Ends and Freeez, doesn't he?

luka
03-02-2016, 11:18 AM
52nd St were from Manchester to keep it on theme

craner
03-02-2016, 11:19 AM
That's the band I was just trying to remember. I thought they were called 54th Street, which is why I had no luck on Google!

luka
03-02-2016, 11:22 AM
Surely no 52nd or 54th St in Manchester?

Corpsey
03-02-2016, 11:27 AM
Not to derail the thread but I formerly challenge Luka to put together a 10-15 track compilation tracklist of UK soul :p

Benny B
03-02-2016, 11:33 AM
check this thread corps
http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=12435&highlight=soundsystem

luka
03-02-2016, 11:47 AM
Great thread but quite deep not really a primer?

Benny B
03-02-2016, 12:00 PM
no not a primer, more a result of bang diddley and me trawling through uk streetsoul youtube channels.

on subject of uk soul, these are all from manchester.


this is apparently 1st british all black group to have a number one, they're from moss side
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=788BOtx_-Nw

and this one from 1984 on Factory records, produced by Bernard Sumner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAyRe0OYelQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW5QTZI8JE4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2GAgMxUOwI

rubberdingyrapids
03-02-2016, 12:19 PM
my basic primer in rough chronological order -
simply red - moneys too tight to mention
simply red - holdin back the years
simply red - every time we say goodbye
simply red - if you dont know me by now

:8

Benny B
03-02-2016, 12:26 PM
52nd St were from Manchester to keep it on theme

you just reminded me that diane charlemagne (RIP) was from Manchester!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhAxDmRRo9A

stephen morriss of new order produced that.

Benny B
03-02-2016, 12:30 PM
Mike pickerings band quando quango shared members with 52nd st too. this got caned in the paradise garage and chicago apparently
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGil0GvMWUo

Benny B
03-02-2016, 12:39 PM
i love a lot of factory records stuff, very cool label, but i had to vote for the smiths in the end. i wonder what would have happened if they'd signed to factory?. a disaster, probably.

luka
03-02-2016, 12:40 PM
Definitive primer lol!

Rome Jefferies - good love
Light of the world - London Town
Junior - mama used to say
I-level - give me
Central line- walking into sunshine
Loose ends-hanging on a string
Freez -IOU
Soul II Soul- back to life
David Joseph - you can't hide your love
China Burton- you don't care about our love

Corpsey
03-02-2016, 12:45 PM
Thanks all

droid
03-02-2016, 12:49 PM
Hang on - are we now saying that the lighthouse family and simply red WERENT the exemplars of 80's UK soul?

craner
03-02-2016, 12:51 PM
Freeez were on this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06yrm6x) the other day.

craner
03-02-2016, 12:52 PM
Lighthouse Family were a 90s thing, weren't they? They were fucking rubbish, anyway.

Benny B
03-02-2016, 12:53 PM
it has to be the smiths cos they made two perfect albums (meat is murder, queen is dead), two great ones (debut, strangeways), and an amazing run of great singles and b-sides that weren't on the albums. plus they are literally the only band where i can remember all the lyrics to every song.

rubberdingyrapids
03-02-2016, 12:54 PM
i hate that london town song. but this one - David Joseph You Can't Hide (Your Love From Me) makes me think of broken beat or uk funky. or even some of the shangaan electro stuff. i can see lil silva remixing it for some reason.

luka
03-02-2016, 12:59 PM
The first song and the last two on my list are my favourites. I love them.

luka
03-02-2016, 01:01 PM
I can understand hating the London town song but I like that vibe. Reminds me of this heatwave classic (who also have a British connection)
https://youtu.be/RbZYFTt431g

mistersloane
03-02-2016, 02:14 PM
"Minefield" over "Give Me" by I-level, but it's nitpicking. I loved I Level.

I'm shocked you've omitted Imagination.

Leo
03-02-2016, 02:24 PM
Surely no 52nd or 54th St in Manchester?

it's a nyc thing:


Following the repeal of Prohibition in 1933, 52nd Street replaced 133rd street as "Swing Street" of the city. The blocks of 52nd Street between Fifth Avenue and Seventh Avenue became renowned for the abundance of jazz clubs and lively street life. The street was convenient to musicians playing on Broadway and the 'legitimate' nightclubs and was also the site of a CBS studio. Musicians who played for others in the early evening played for themselves on 52nd Street.

In its heyday from 1930 through the early 1950s, 52nd Street clubs hosted such jazz legends as Miles Davis, Harry Gibson, Dizzy Gillespie, Billie Holiday, Nat Jaffe, Marian McPartland, Thelonious Monk, Charlie Parker, Louis Prima, Art Tatum, Fats Waller, Trummy Young, and many more. Although musicians from all schools performed there, after Minton's Playhouse in uptown Harlem, 52nd Street was the second most important place for the dissemination of bebop;.[1] In fact, a tune called "52nd Street Theme" by Thelonious Monk became a bebop anthem and jazz standard.

luka
03-02-2016, 02:29 PM
Cool. Thank you Leo

Tbh I enjoy imagination but I've never fallen head over heels with any one song. What's your favourite?

luka
03-02-2016, 02:46 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=01qsJ-oZXVQ&feature=youtu.be

Me and Mr sloane like this too

mistersloane
03-02-2016, 02:47 PM
Cool. Thank you Leo

Tbh I enjoy imagination but I've never fallen head over heels with any one song. What's your favourite?

Personally? In and Out of Love extended version, but Just an Illusion is probably their killer just for the bassline. And the video. And the Nightdubbing version. The whole of Nightdubbing is wonderful.

Mr. Tea
03-02-2016, 03:15 PM
Lighthouse Family were a 90s thing, weren't they? They were fucking rubbish, anyway.

'Lifted' becomes an OK song if you mentally substitute 'fist' for 'lift'.

Corpsey
03-02-2016, 03:37 PM
Lighthouse Family's existence was justified by Alan Johnson listening to it in his Mercedes on Peep Show. See also: Toploader.

droid
03-02-2016, 03:40 PM
it has to be the smiths cos they made two perfect albums (meat is murder, queen is dead), two great ones (debut, strangeways), and an amazing run of great singles and b-sides that weren't on the albums.

Smiths over Joy Division? I see where youre coming from but I just cant accept that.

woops
03-02-2016, 04:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahD119s4Rok

Benny B
03-02-2016, 04:27 PM
Smiths over Joy Division? I see where youre coming from but I just cant accept that.


New order over joy division.

The smiths over EVERYONE.

Benny B
03-02-2016, 05:56 PM
Actually, what I said about the smiths also applies to the fall. 2 perfect albums (hex enduction, nations saving grace) a bunch of great singles and miscellany. But I have to be in the mood for them whereas I can always sling on the smiths or new order.
New order also had a great run but I don't think they were that good at making albums. At their best they beat JD though.

Benny B
03-02-2016, 05:59 PM
I bet mr tea likes dragnet right?

Mr. Tea
03-02-2016, 06:37 PM
I bet mr tea likes dragnet right?

It's a great film. Dan Ackroyd is great generally.

Sorry, I don't have much to say about music from Manchester except that I like Joy Division and don't like Oasis. Never got on with the Smiths either.

luka
03-02-2016, 06:39 PM
You named a story spectre vs rector which is what benny is alluding to

Mr. Tea
03-02-2016, 06:52 PM
You named a story spectre vs rector which is what benny is alluding to

Ahhhh. Yeah I've heard some Fall I like, don't know them at all well though. It's just a great phrase and very evocative of a story, I thought.

Benny B
03-02-2016, 06:55 PM
Ahhhh. Yeah I've heard some Fall I like, don't know them at all well though. It's just a great phrase and very evocative of a story, I thought.

M.R. James be born be born
Yog Sothoth rape me lord
Sludge hai choi, choi choi son

M.R. James be born be born
Yog Sothoth Ray Milland
Van Greenway R. Corman
Sludge hai choi choi choi son

Part one: spectre versus rector
The rector lived in Hampshire
The spectre was from Chorazina
In evil dust in the air
The rector locked his doors

Part two: detective drives through Hampshire
Stops because of the fog there
And thinks a visit to the rector
And meanwhile and meanwhile

Spectre possesses rector
Rector becomes spectre
Sludge hai choi choi choi son
Sludge hai choi choi choi son
Enter inspector
Even as he spoke a dust devil suddenly arose and struck him

Part four: detective versus rector
Detective versus rector possessed by spectre
Spectre blows him against the wall
Says direct, "this is your fall"
I've waited since Caesar for this
Damn Latin my hate is crisp
I'll rip your fat body to pieces"

M.R. James be born be born
Yog Sothoth Ray Milland
Van Greenway R. Corman

Scene five, scene five:
Comes a hero
Soul possessed a thousand times
Only he could rescue rector
Only he could save inspector
And this hero was a strange man
"Those flowers, take them away," he said,
"They're only funeral decorations
And oh this is a drudge nation
A nation of no imagination
A stupid man is their ideal
They shun me and think me unclean,
Unclean...

"I have saved a thousand souls
They cannot even save their own
I'm soaked in blood but always good
It's like I drunk myself sober,
I get better as I get older."

M.R. James be born be born
Yog Sothoth rape me lord
Van Greenway R. Corman
Sludge hai choi choi choi son
Sludge hai choi choi choi son

Part six:
That was his kick from life
That's how he pads out his life
Selling his soul to the devil
And the spectre enters hero
But the possession is ineffectual
But the possession is ineffectual
And the possession is ineffectual

And M.R. James be born be born
Yog Sothoth rape me lord
Van Greenway R. Corman
Sludge hai choi choi choi son
Sludge hai choi choi choi son, I said
Sludge hai choi choi choi son

Last scene:
Hero and inspector walk from the scene
Is the spectre banished forever?
The inspector is half insane
The hero goes back into the mountains
The hero goes back into the mountains
He was an exorcist but he was exhausted
An exorcist but he was exhausted
The rector is dead on the floor

M.R. James be born be born
Yog Sothoth Ray Milland
Van Greenway R. Corman
Sludge hai choi choi choi son
Sludge hai choi choi choi son

[...] chosen son
Van Greenway R. Corman
Van Greenway R. Corman
Yog Sothoth Ray Milland
Yog Sothoth rape me lord

Benny B
03-02-2016, 07:18 PM
Didn't know you had a story called that. I just thought it would be your sort of thing.

Mr. Tea
03-02-2016, 09:34 PM
Didn't know you had a story called that. I just thought it would be your sort of thing.

Ha, well it is! I reversed the words. Here it is. https://dointhelambethwarp.wordpress.com/2015/12/13/rector-vs-spectre/

luka
03-02-2016, 09:40 PM
I'm a big mark e Smith fan but I don't like noisy rackets so I'm not a huge the fall fan but I have seen them live and it was pretty fun

Mr. Tea
03-02-2016, 09:55 PM
By all accounts he's an old right-wing shitbag but you have to love him for his description of Mumford & Sons, if nothing else. http://www.nme.com/news/the-fall--2/70608

craner
03-02-2016, 10:21 PM
Luke reckons ACR are the worst band on the list, yet he's bigging up Lighthouse Family. He told me that after a lager top in the pub once.

luka
03-02-2016, 10:27 PM
He's not right wing "some mongoloid Irish folk band" is funny though i agree

luka
03-02-2016, 10:43 PM
Craner you haven't voted yet ❎

craner
03-02-2016, 10:50 PM
How do you know?

luka
03-02-2016, 10:56 PM
Cos you said if you voted you'd vote acr

craner
03-02-2016, 10:59 PM
Oh yeah.

craner
03-02-2016, 11:02 PM
I had a dream once that all the Durriti Column albums were made by Kim Basinger. That's the Manchester band I'd vote for.

luka
03-02-2016, 11:07 PM
CRANER FLIP FLOPS AGAIN

"Apart from that I quite like Durutti Column, and I love Pacific State and Voodoo Ray, but couldn't happily vote for any of them. Manchester is overrated, not as overrated as Bristol, but still. Maybe it would have to be Guy Called Gerald after all, he made some good jungle tunes too. "

craner
03-02-2016, 11:15 PM
I'm not flip-flopping. I just can't decide. I think Sheffield is a superior music city to be honest.

luka
03-02-2016, 11:20 PM
Who's Sheffield got?

luka
03-02-2016, 11:22 PM
Northerners take too much pride in being reactionary to have any intersting culture. They're backwards looking people

droid
03-02-2016, 11:32 PM
Who's Sheffield got?

Def Leppard & Iron Maiden.

craner
03-02-2016, 11:37 PM
Sheffield had ABC, Human League, Heaven 17, Cabaret Voltaire, Warp. I like all that more than anything from Manchester. I love Juice Box but that doesn't seem like 'Manchester' music to me, more like a London outpost, a bit like DJ SS in Leicester and Roni Size in Bristol. They were making music that was being played in raves all around the country, but it was essentially a London style.

luka
03-02-2016, 11:44 PM
There's a pub round the corner from where I grew up that calls itself the birthplace of iron maiden though?

craner
03-02-2016, 11:47 PM
'Lexicon of Love', 'Dare', 'Penthouse and Pavement': three of my favorite albums, all from Sheffield. LFO, 'LFO ', one of my favorite tracks, from Sheffield.

droid
03-02-2016, 11:50 PM
There's a pub round the corner from where I grew up that calls itself the birthplace of iron maiden though?

Dickinson is from Sheffield, and let's face it, no-one has any idea of who else is in the band.

droid
03-02-2016, 11:59 PM
What about newcastle? Dire Straits, Cheryl Cole, Dubstar, Jimmy Nail, Prefab Sprout, Sting, Ant & Dec, THE LIGHTHOUSE FAMILY.

craner
04-02-2016, 12:03 AM
Hey, don't you be slagging off the Straits and the Sprouts. That's classic gear.

craner
04-02-2016, 12:04 AM
'Romeo and Juliet'? 'Cars and Girls'?

Ness Rowlah
04-02-2016, 02:11 AM
The Durutti Colum, not "Duratti".

Thank you,
the Internet Spelling Police

Corpsey
04-02-2016, 09:13 AM
By all accounts he's an old right-wing shitbag but you have to love him for his description of Mumford & Sons, if nothing else. http://www.nme.com/news/the-fall--2/70608

Grumpy northern rock singers are always good for abusive quotes. :D

Are there any northerners on Dissensus?

luka
04-02-2016, 09:24 AM
Slackks a scouser

luka
04-02-2016, 09:25 AM
Woops is from Burnley

baboon2004
04-02-2016, 09:54 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBvG9zsQrPo

he seems quite cheery here.

Mr. Tea
04-02-2016, 10:11 AM
He's not right wing "some mongoloid Irish folk band" is funny though i agree

I read somewhere that he called the Daily Mail "the only worthwhile paper" or something similar but quite possibly he only said that to bait worthy Guardian types.

Mr. Tea
04-02-2016, 10:13 AM
What about newcastle? Dire Straits, Cheryl Cole, Dubstar, Jimmy Nail, Prefab Sprout, Sting, Ant & Dec, THE LIGHTHOUSE FAMILY.

And Sheffield! Pulp, Cabaret Voltaire, Human League, Heaven 17, Thompson Twins and, um, Arctic Monkeys.

luka
04-02-2016, 10:30 AM
Sheffield had ABC, Human League, Heaven 17, Cabaret Voltaire, Warp. I like all that more than anything from Manchester. I love Juice Box but that doesn't seem like 'Manchester' music to me, more like a London outpost, a bit like DJ SS in Leicester and Roni Size in Bristol. They were making music that was being played in raves all around the country, but it was essentially a London style.

Keep up Tea!

Mr. Tea
04-02-2016, 11:12 AM
Keep up Tea!

Oh arses. I'd probably better leave the music threads well alone, like I usually do.

Benny B
04-02-2016, 11:58 AM
Grumpy northern rock singers are always good for abusive quotes. :D

Are there any northerners on Dissensus?

as a born and bred cumbrian who lived in newcastle for 12 years i've always considered manchester to be SOUTH

woops
04-02-2016, 01:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYnBJ2rZN3k

CrowleyHead
04-02-2016, 04:13 PM
Just realized 10 cc aren't here, and they need to be.

Benny B
04-02-2016, 07:22 PM
Just realized 10 cc aren't here, and they need to be.


True. Magazine probably should be too, they had at least three great tunes - shot by both sides, light pours out of me and song from under the floorboards.

CrowleyHead
04-02-2016, 09:30 PM
Heck the Magazine ALBUMS were decent. And not really just a depressing mediocrity dragging a band down like Joy Division. Astonished they're doing so well in the polls here.

woops
05-02-2016, 04:05 PM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYiuutWyuCU

Benny B
09-02-2016, 09:05 AM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYiuutWyuCU

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s278/dogyears_photos/liam%20weirdo.gif (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/dogyears_photos/media/liam%20weirdo.gif.html)

woops
09-02-2016, 11:44 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex28YukYKc4

woops
07-03-2016, 01:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=womq8BI8FbM

droid
21-11-2016, 11:58 AM
Smiths over Joy Division? I see where youre coming from but I just cant accept that.

Im reconsidering this as we speak.

john eden
21-11-2016, 12:38 PM
SHOCK CONFESSION :eek:

firefinga
21-11-2016, 01:22 PM
Wow, when I was around 10 and beginning to get interested in pop music, it was all Happy Mondays. "Madchester" and all that. Today, Happy Mondays seem to be totally forgotten.

Corpsey
21-11-2016, 01:32 PM
AND they practically invented UK funky with "fairground", remember?

LOL

Love don't give a fucknall

He's in some sort of unholy pantheon with Phil Collins and Jay Kay, innee?

Do african-americans rate Simply Red, I wonder?

Corpsey
21-11-2016, 01:33 PM
I've never understood where Ian Curtis's weird robotic singing voice came from, but I've noticed it's quite similar to Morrissey's in some respects so maybe it's a Manc thing?

firefinga
21-11-2016, 01:50 PM
I only know Simply Red from the odd video on MTV or when some of their songs was being played on daytime radio at places like waiting rooms and such, but to me they were always representing the yuppie asshole type of the Thatcher era. Maybe I am being unfair now to Simply Red, bc I don't know if they ever issued any political statements - were they lefitst in real life? politically indifferent? Thatcher-ites?

Corpsey
21-11-2016, 01:52 PM
it's interesting cos these associations don't ultimately stick

hence the critical reappraisal of e.g. collins of late

luka
21-11-2016, 01:53 PM
I only know Simply Red from the odd video on MTV or when some of their songs was being played on daytime radio at places like waiting rooms and such, but to me they were always representing the yuppie asshole type of the Thatcher era. Maybe I am being unfair now to Simply Red, bc I don't know if they ever issued any political statements - were they lefitst in real life? politically indifferent? Thatcher-ites?

socialist

CrowleyHead
21-11-2016, 01:55 PM
Do african-americans rate Simply Red, I wonder?

Limited degrees. They never broke into the proper R&B market because when they got sold to the US they were sold to what could best be described as the "Contemporary Pop" scene, basically the post-80s version of Soft Rock. Amy Grant, Jewel, Billy Joel's later years. There are people who really rate them in the way they rate Jamiroquai here (which I know will probably raise eyebrows) in that "wow Brits will work hard to rip-off soul music" cliche. If someone had been smart enough to aim them to that WBLS/"Quiet Storm" demographic, they might have a weird thriving audience in the US the way that Bobby Caldwell did in the 70s here.

CrowleyHead
21-11-2016, 01:57 PM
Still maintain if Tupac had lived another two years, he would've easily rapped over Simply Red. "I'm-TRYING-to HOLD-back the-YEAAAAAARS!"

Corpsey
21-11-2016, 01:57 PM
I always loved jamiroquai until I learned that it's not cool to

Upon finding that out I promptly found them cheesy

Corpsey
21-11-2016, 01:59 PM
I feel like part of the reason why the consciously avant garde producers are actually less likely to produce innovative and exciting music is that they're hemmed in by their cultivated taste.

Like juke producers using evanescence samples, no cool FACT/quietus reading producer would ever do that.

Or maybe this just goes back to that old cheesiness conversation.

firefinga
21-11-2016, 02:00 PM
I always loved jamiroquai until I learned that it's not cool to


That's a bit lame - dodn't you trust your own judgement? I personally thought Jamiroquai was ok.

firefinga
21-11-2016, 02:05 PM
A bit funny to include Take That here. I think the city of Manchaster and its musical heritage had no influence in the foundation of this outfit at all.

luka
21-11-2016, 02:12 PM
Limited degrees. They never broke into the proper R&B market because when they got sold to the US they were sold to what could best be described as the "Contemporary Pop" scene, basically the post-80s version of Soft Rock. Amy Grant, Jewel, Billy Joel's later years. There are people who really rate them in the way they rate Jamiroquai here (which I know will probably raise eyebrows) in that "wow Brits will work hard to rip-off soul music" cliche. If someone had been smart enough to aim them to that WBLS/"Quiet Storm" demographic, they might have a weird thriving audience in the US the way that Bobby Caldwell did in the 70s here.

Nelson George.

firefinga
21-11-2016, 02:45 PM
simply red - if you dont know me by now

One of the most annoying songs ever recorded.

Corpsey
21-11-2016, 03:14 PM
A bit funny to include Take That here. I think the city of Manchaster and its musical heritage had no influence in the foundation of this outfit at all.

Big gay scene in Manchester

Corpsey
21-11-2016, 03:20 PM
That's a bit lame - dodn't you trust your own judgement? I personally thought Jamiroquai was ok.

I still do like their music but not as innocently as before nahmeanuheard

baboon2004
21-11-2016, 04:18 PM
re simply red, holding back the years has been sampled quite a few times in hip hop - Brand Nubian was the one that I knew, but there's lots more apparently...

CrowleyHead
21-11-2016, 04:42 PM
Nelson George.

At some point now that I can have a laugh at him I should see how much of him I agree or disagree. His omnipresence as lead talking head was pretty dull tho.

john eden
21-11-2016, 04:47 PM
I only ever saw him on that Oprah show about the PMRC...

luka
21-11-2016, 04:49 PM
he was really into lisa stansfield

firefinga
21-11-2016, 08:45 PM
A Certain Ratio were great as well, but had very little influence in the end, right?

Benny B
21-11-2016, 08:55 PM
I've never understood where Ian Curtis's weird robotic singing voice came from, but I've noticed it's quite similar to Morrissey's in some respects so maybe it's a Manc thing?

Ian curtis' voice is basically Jim Morrison meets Iggy Pop circa 'the idiot' innit (but less croony and more robotic like you say). Never thought he sounds much like moz though

luka
21-11-2016, 08:59 PM
Ian curtis' voice is basically Jim Morrison meets Iggy Pop circa 'the idiot' innit (but less croony and more robotic like you say). Never thought he sounds much like moz though

and iggy revered and modelled himself on morrison as it goes

Benny B
21-11-2016, 09:41 PM
and iggy revered and modelled himself on morrison as it goes

Yeah and it shows. The doors have always been one of those chronically uncool bands that everyone at least secretly loves i reckon. They were obviously a big thing in liverpool at the time too with people like julian cope & echo & the bunnymen &etc.

CrowleyHead
21-11-2016, 09:52 PM
I only ever saw him on that Oprah show about the PMRC...

It's more about documentaries about Rap and things like that. He became the seeming authority when the canon got mainstreamed into the "Rock Doc" phenomenon.

The Doors and Jamiroquai tying into the phenomenon of 'uncool yet secretly influential' bands is a nice weird thematic parallel, ngl. Glad to see my tangent had success.

Also, Lisa Stansfield has love in the US in the African-American community among a certain generational sub-unit. A family friend once said with impressive gravity that "Been Around The World" gave her the ever elusive 'ghetto pass'. Annie Lenox too. But back to the Mancs.

padraig (u.s.)
21-11-2016, 10:07 PM
and iggy revered and modelled himself on morrison as it goes

that's a big exaggeration wrapped around a kernel of truth. Please Kill Me has the bit where he mentions seeing The Doors play in front of a ton of U of M frat boys in Ann Arbor, and being into Morrison's semi-confrontational, or at least zero fucks given, stance toward the audience, while thinking the Doors themselves kind of sucked. Think u could definitely call Morrison an influence on Iggy, but definitely not a or the model.

also I'm sorry, but the Doors are fucking terrible, almost as bad as the Eagles. I mean, do you really want to defend stuff like L.A. Woman or Light My Fire or Love Me Two Times or etc? & Morrison has to be one of the worst lyricists ever. Endlessly puerile garbage masquerading as deep. So awful you can't even just ignore it like with many gtr bands.

Sorry but gotta nip this Doors revisionism in the bud.

padraig (u.s.)
21-11-2016, 10:11 PM
Btw if u are at all interested in Iggy &/or the Stooges, u should definitely watch the recent Jarmusch documentary. P great. (no mentions of Morrison/the Doors as influence either, fwtw)

baboon2004
21-11-2016, 10:15 PM
didn't know about that doc, thanks.

This Uk documentary on Iggy (and the Stooges, sort of) is great too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rah4p1FgP7A

droid
21-11-2016, 10:19 PM
Yeah, that Stooges/Iggy doc looks good alright.

Iggy transcended Morrison in pretty much every way, his peanut butter audience walking is perhaps the most iconic moment in all of rock.

The Doors get some kudos for Nico's the end though, I guess.

luka
21-11-2016, 10:53 PM
The doors were a vastly better band than the stooges. I can't name a single stooges song off the top of my head. No classics. Iggy looked great but the music was just bratty lo fi rock.

droid
21-11-2016, 10:56 PM
lol.

Tom Waits & now The Doors. You're becoming more bohemian by the day.

luka
21-11-2016, 10:57 PM
lol.

Tom Waits & now The Doors. You're becoming more bohemian by the day.

Stop trying to make that Tom waits slur stick or I'll see you in court

luka
21-11-2016, 10:59 PM
Simon Reynolds loves the doors. Julian cope loves the doors. Iggy pop loves the doors. Padraig is well known for his dreadful taste in music that's why he's generally not allowed to post in music threads. We keep him corralled in the politics section.

droid
21-11-2016, 11:00 PM
I bet you wore leather pants in college and had a red throw cloth for your lamp.

luka
21-11-2016, 11:01 PM
I didn't go to college I'm an autodidact

droid
21-11-2016, 11:03 PM
But the rest is true.

luka
21-11-2016, 11:12 PM
I wish it was droid. The Doors put out a right load of shit but the good bits are good and also fun. Riders on the storm for example. I like it.

padraig (u.s.)
21-11-2016, 11:30 PM
The doors were a vastly better band than the stooges

lol u can't get me riled up as easy as u can Droid, my dude

padraig (u.s.)
21-11-2016, 11:35 PM
u probably had a poster of Bob Marley on the wall of yr college dorm, or whatever weird word English ppl call college dorms

luka
21-11-2016, 11:38 PM
Padraig likes hootie and the blowfish

luka
21-11-2016, 11:39 PM
Padraig likes hoobastank

padraig (u.s.)
21-11-2016, 11:52 PM
luka'a favorite rapper of all time is Zach de la Rocha

Benny B
22-11-2016, 12:04 AM
that's a big exaggeration wrapped around a kernel of truth. Please Kill Me has the bit where he mentions seeing The Doors play in front of a ton of U of M frat boys in Ann Arbor, and being into Morrison's semi-confrontational, or at least zero fucks given, stance toward the audience, while thinking the Doors themselves kind of sucked. Think u could definitely call Morrison an influence on Iggy, but definitely not a or the model.

also I'm sorry, but the Doors are fucking terrible, almost as bad as the Eagles. I mean, do you really want to defend stuff like L.A. Woman or Light My Fire or Love Me Two Times or etc? & Morrison has to be one of the worst lyricists ever. Endlessly puerile garbage masquerading as deep. So awful you can't even just ignore it like with many gtr bands.

Sorry but gotta nip this Doors revisionism in the bud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryq2K0dGx6o

I could never say I like them better than the stooges but if you don't like the doors you don't like fun imo. riders on the storm, crystal ship, people are strange, light my fire, break on through, the end, LA woman (that whole album actually) etc etc. they had loads of tunes

padraig (u.s.)
22-11-2016, 12:06 AM
luka is a massive fan of both U2 as a band and Bono as an individual

padraig (u.s.)
22-11-2016, 12:09 AM
if you don't like the doors you don't like fun imo

see luka this what quality trolling looks like

luka
22-11-2016, 08:12 AM
see luka this what quality trolling looks like

He's making a valid point. The Doors had good material that everyone enjoys.

Corpsey
22-11-2016, 09:25 AM
I like that Whiskey Bar tune and turns out

'The "Alabama Song"—also known as "Moon of Alabama", "Moon over Alabama", and "Whisky Bar"—is an English song written for Bertolt Brecht by his close collaborator Elisabeth Hauptmann in 1925 and set to music by Kurt Weill for the 1927 play Little Mahagonny. It was reused for the 1930 opera Rise and Fall of the City of Mahagonny and has been notably covered by The Doors and David Bowie.'

Never made the Morrison-Curtis connection before. Actually I can see the link between 'The End' and 'Atmosphere' for example.

This RS blurb points out Morrison's indebtedness to Frank Sinatra http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-singers-of-all-time-19691231/jim-morrison-20101202

It's that crooning isn't it, which becomes almost a moaning in the case of JDivision.

CrowleyHead
23-11-2016, 06:51 PM
The irony about 'crooners' is that its a slam. Crooner is about how a singer who couldn't figure out where the right notes were, so they'd slide themselves back into key by little tricks. The Bing Crosby scatting "A-ba-ba-ba-baa" trick is a good example. The irony is now we look at those as the classic conventional singers, and at the time they were considered faddish pop stars or w/e. This also plays into the weird Elvis 'ghostly' vibrato, which would've no doubt been a big influence on JM as much as crooners, Howling Wolf, i guess the Weil/Brecht world. So you got a lot of that mutually influencing Iggy as well as Mick Jagger, and those would get transmitted to Curtis along with Bowie and maybe mutual interest in guys he liked such as the Cabs or Gristle. Warsaw initially is a lot closer to the Buzzcocks in a certain respect, the vocal 'character' isn't quite there yet.

Benny B
23-11-2016, 09:30 PM
Good post about crooning. I should have said Ian curtis is like jim morrison via iggy but with all the blues leached out (maybe cos he was well into kraftwerk too?). Nick cave would probably be a more direct descendent in the jimbo croon-nuum come to think of it.

craner
23-11-2016, 09:40 PM
Yes, but...

Dean Martin is the great example, couldn't sing for toffee, but everybody loved his singing, because it's all about charisma, expression, phrasing, presence.

Other great singers in this vein, but at a much higher level: Billie Holliday, Frank Sinatra, Rex Harrison.

droid
23-11-2016, 10:50 PM
Scott must be the king of the modern day crooners.

craner
23-11-2016, 11:26 PM
But he made the mistake of writing his own lyrics, which where hilarious. In a bad way.

craner
23-11-2016, 11:27 PM
Scott Walker is his own punch line.

Mr. Tea
24-11-2016, 09:59 AM
I like the idea of a 'croon-nuum'. Where does Bryan Ferry fit into this? (Cue responses of "I don't care as long as it's as far away from me as possible...")

droid
24-11-2016, 10:08 AM
Is there a fascist-crooner correlation?

The Stooges pre-punk Nazi outrages. Bowie and (to a greater extent) Ferry's flirtations. Morrissey and the NF, Frank Sinatra, Pat Boone...

Slothrop
24-11-2016, 10:19 AM
Dean Martin is the great example, couldn't sing for toffee, but everybody loved his singing, because it's all about charisma, expression, phrasing, presence.

[Obligatory parallel with (a certain approach to) MCing]

Mr. Tea
24-11-2016, 10:52 AM
Frank Sinatra

What makes you say that? I thought he was generally pretty right-on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_life_of_Frank_Sinatra#Racial_activism

droid
24-11-2016, 10:55 AM
He slid pretty far to the right after the 60's IIRC.

firefinga
24-11-2016, 11:33 AM
I like the idea of a 'croon-nuum'. Where does Bryan Ferry fit into this? (Cue responses of "I don't care as long as it's as far away from me as possible...")

Ferry was very un-croonerish. At least for me. Regarding his singing style and more importantly - I always had the impression the target audience of the crooners were mainly middle aged women. Not so much in Ferry's case.

Corpsey
24-11-2016, 11:38 AM
Auto-tune - Croon connection? (Re: what Crowley said about it being a way of covering for a shit singing voice)

I think Fetty Wap might be the first auto-crooner.

Mr. Tea
24-11-2016, 11:54 AM
Ferry was very un-croonerish. At least for me. Regarding his singing style and more importantly - I always had the impression the target audience of the crooners were mainly middle aged women. Not so much in Ferry's case.

Nah, Ferry's a definitive crooner I reckon. You're right about the typical audience for crooners, but that's not what defines the style.

CrowleyHead
24-11-2016, 04:30 PM
Nah, Ferry's a definitive crooner I reckon. You're right about the typical audience for crooners, but that's not what defines the style.

Ferry started different but I think as he got older he got more into trying to sing properly and being a proper crooner as opposed to his weirdness.

@Corpse; I'd argue its probably Kanye because Wayne's approach was more deliberately about hearing what happens when the effect of auto-tune corrected him, and T-Pain used it initially for guide until it became a textural effect. But I know Fetty probably isn't listening to Kanye, so I guess by default his big influence is Future.

Also to further fine-tune my point, its less "a shit singing voice" and more like, shit ability to sing. The instinct to know where the notes are in key, hit them right (not G sharp or g flat but G!), hit them clear (not too much vibrato or slur, no nasal tinge). Crooning was the idea that we wouldn't always like clear, clean and perfect singing and emphasize STYLE. So to put it in a certain indication of term, on a technical level Matt Monro would be a greater crooner as a Capital S Singer than Sinatra, but would we instinctually be able to make that distinction unless our ear is trained? What about charisma, little things that aren't 'good' but work for us, etc?

droid
24-11-2016, 05:02 PM
I guess it depends on your definition, but Bowie in his crooning mode, and Morrissey in general both had excellent control of diction, nuance, key etc... I guess the counter argument is that to emphasise style you need consummate control.

baboon2004
24-11-2016, 05:56 PM
I think Bowie's very underrated as a singer, probably because he uses that kind of crooning mode so often. He makes difficult songs seem easy (as anyone who's tried to sing them will know), and as you say, he also has superb stylistic control and knows how to add interest...which a lot of 'technically great' singers omit to pick up, probably because they're so good in the first place

craner
24-11-2016, 08:38 PM
I was going to mention Billy Mackenzie, but then I remembered he was an avant garde operatic diva. David Sylvian as the totally de-sexualised pale white crooner?

CrowleyHead
24-11-2016, 08:53 PM
Absolutely. I love Sylvian's voice but his singing is totally stumbling even in later period songs like Silver Moon.

craner
24-11-2016, 09:05 PM
It's taking Ferry's postmodern croon to the nth degree by the time of 'Ghosts': affectation layered upon affectation. I like that, it makes Luke's skin crawl. But how different is it, basically, to the vocals in The Band?

droid
24-11-2016, 10:09 PM
I think Bowie's very underrated as a singer, probably because he uses that kind of crooning mode so often. He makes difficult songs seem easy (as anyone who's tried to sing them will know), and as you say, he also has superb stylistic control and knows how to add interest...which a lot of 'technically great' singers omit to pick up, probably because they're so good in the first place

I think the croon was something sporadic for him that became more prominent in his later years as he lost some of his range, but yeah, quite underrated 'world on a wing' and 'sweet thing/candidate' are virtuoso performances.

sadmanbarty
25-11-2016, 12:13 AM
According to my dad, bowie said that he wanted to be remembered as a great singer and was a fan of this bloke (you can hear bits of bowie's accent in this):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcNNY0arYto

Mr. Tea
25-11-2016, 07:45 AM
Off-topic, but I think "According to my dad..." would make a great title for a thread.

firefinga
27-11-2016, 09:09 AM
Regarding the Doors,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqP2R_2nNkI