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Woebot
06-11-2004, 08:22 PM
has anyone heard these? there's rumour they sound powerfully good. better than the original vinyl? i bought my copy of tago mago in a record store in an underground station in vienna in 1989 (aged 18). taking it on board was probably THE pivotal moment in the development of my musical agenda. that sounds pretentious, so what...

nights spliffing endlessly to tago mago. mushroom.

rececntly, pursuant my la monte young fetish (bit of a digression that maybe?) the velvets edged can off the number one spot. quite why on the face of it i do not know. one has to listen to the velvets with a bit of imagination, with can WOOOOMPH, it hits you. its completely undeniably. itd be quite easy to argue that EVERYTHING came from can.

in fact i reckon i got into funk and jazz funk AFTER getting hooked on the can riddim. i remember, and this recurs wierdly in my head like a mantra, a remark made by some wire journalist (i think hopey glass, whoever he/she is) to the effect that such and such a piece of music could never appeal to him as he was a "can fan and jazzophobe". i've never shaken that phrase out of my head. tuning into resonance fm the other day on the way back from the airport i heard "halleluwah", man i was pulverised, rocked to the core, i pulled up at the house and just sat there in the dark for 15 minutes as it steamrolled to a close.

and yet theyre so ubiquitous now we almost take them for granted. like the fookin air we breathe. discovering those spoon records in the early nineties, alongside the rave explosion, well it was mind-altering, paradigm-shifting for young nobs like me.

i think the packaging of them of quite exquisite, i love the thick curved-edged jewel cases and the layout. however the artwork reproduction came in for a little criticism (from rob young in the wire). i was on the inside track on this one and have it from the horses mouth, so to speak, that the design company were handed the scans used by the record company (spoon, mute i dunno) and did their very best with them.

we actually have a czukay signed up to dissensus (delusions of grandeur soon to be dashed to pieces, is it mike czukay from sacramento..?)

francesco
06-11-2004, 09:24 PM
I have bought Tago Mago and Egebamyasi. I used to have those on vinyl and still have it far away from there on my parent house. I listened to the first CD reissues and they were, if memory serves, a bit flat and with studio or tapes background noise clearly audible, but i don't have those or the vinyl there for comparison, sorry. What can i say is that those new reissues sound very good, but also if I could have the vinyl at hand probably i wouldn't care buy again maybe. I have nothing again the cover scans, they seem good to me, but maybe is because i got the european version that is not Spoon/mute/emi but Spoon/mute/Wea manufactured? The booklet could have been nicer with bigger photos and less text but really i have seen far worse reissues.

But then is the music that is incredible.

It was Paperhouse and Spray by Can who turned the very young me on "underground" music. A older friend made to me a cassette compilation of krautrock and at the beginning put those two songs. Paperhouse was like an illumination, i still can belive how much i love this song.

To everyone interested in the reissues, my verdict is that spoon/mute made an excellent job, and me too also like the "round" cd case (also used for Virgin Prunes and by Auralux for Lee Scratch Perry 14 Blackboard Jungle Dub).

francesco

nonightsweats
06-11-2004, 09:53 PM
has anyone heard these? there's rumour they sound powerfully good. better than the original vinyl?

i've got them and love 'em to bits.

sound quality wise - ege bamysai has sparkled up best but probably only because they had better recording equiptment at that stage. in any case, all of them sound far better than the previously available spoon/mute cd releases. no hiss! more bass. better definition. a full sound spectrum. louder. etc. i've dragged my vinyl copy of ege out and, to my ears, it sounds better than that as well. (not that i actually like vinyl, btw).

not quite sure why the guy from The Wire went so overboard on the packaging. the actual jewel cases are wonderfull and the cover pics don't look as bad as he made out. the new pics are terrific - small... but it's cd packaging, innit? the text is the real problem: there's nothing new and no expansion on the old stories.

i can't wait for the re-release of future days and babluma - they should sound spectacular.

redcrescent
07-11-2004, 11:51 PM
i bought my copy of tago mago in a record store in an underground station in vienna in 1989 (aged 18). taking it on board was probably THE pivotal moment in the development of my musical agenda.
That can only have been the now-defunct Atlantis store, from which I took home tablets by Pere Ubu, Thomas Mapfumo, Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, Sugar Minott...
Funny to think one of your musical epiphanies happened down my neck of the woods, in that store, no less. It's a small, small world indeed.

carlos
09-11-2004, 01:05 AM
i have all the spoon / mute / restless reissues on CD and i can't imagine buying all these new reissues- even if they sound "better"- i just don't have the energy to re-buy them, let alone do some sort of listening test to see if they do indeed sound "better"

rob_giri
09-11-2004, 02:12 PM
Ah Woebot, after reading your blog so much in the last year, i've always felt that you're like an older version of me (in relation to the Can, Lamonte Young obsession). Future Days and then later Tago Mago and Ege Bamyasi (the former, i'll have you know, still remains my favourite) blew my 16-year old mind to pieces and opened me up to limitless possibilites. The calm intensity of Future Days still shakes me on every listen. As a drummer myself, Jaki Liebezeit is my god.

Speaking of which, i've always liked hearing people's say on their favourite Can records. Mine are:
1. future days
2. ege bamyasi
3. tago mago
4. Monster Movie
5. Soundtracks
6. Soon over Babaluma
7. Delay 68
8. Landed

etc, tell us yours..


The only obsession that has ever rivaled that of Can is, funnily enough, Neu!. I listened to their first record, bought on beautifully reissued white vinyl, every day for about 9-months when i was 15, spliffing away in my room in Melbourne's southern suburbs. I even made a t-shirt out of that Michael Rother photo on Neu-75 in year-10 art class, wore it just the other day :).
But as for Lamonte Young, well, he was like my hero for a while there. My favourite track on the first Neu! record is Im Gluck (the double-bass drone), and this mind-blowing discovery led me to Young - i've since been obsessed with drones in general. The only way one can really come by his music is, unless their a middle-aged record-fiend, which i myself would one day like to be, is the ole' Soulseek. What was weird was that i was completely obsessed with him even when i'd only heard a three-minute version of the Shandar Dreamhouse record on that Fluxus compilation. Weird how music-fanatacism works. Just reading miniscule facts can create such an amazing fantasy world. And lets face it, sometimes a good story can make the music sound better. Can't remember if it was Ingram or Reynolds who polarised between the music-fanatic and music-connoisseur, but i am most definately the fanatic :)

rob_giri
09-11-2004, 02:17 PM
Ingram i just read on your blog a while back that you spoke to Young over the phone!! ARRGGGH. "Good one, chuck". Nice

carlos
09-11-2004, 02:43 PM
i've always had a soft spot for "landed" and "Delay 1968"- which are at the bottom of your list so i'll just write about them a bit

i love the raw sound of "Delay 68"- the way they plod through these velvet underground-inspired jams and try to find their own sound. it's a heavy record, and flawed but i find it very vital. "little star of bethlehem" is a monster song.

"landed" was my second Can purchase (after the Cannibalism 2LP comp) - i find a used vinyl copy around 1985... it is very "pop" in its own way- "hunters and collectors" and "full moon on the highway"- but karoli's crazed fuzz guitar and jaki's precise mechanical drumming really affected me back in 85 and i would place this LP high on my list. and "unfinished" is one of their best cut-and-paste sound collage jams.

their later albums like "flow motion" and "saw delight" have some great moments also- dub, funk and disco get thrown into the mix

blissblogger
09-11-2004, 07:48 PM
the original cd reissues have diabolical hiss levels going up and down whenever there's a Czukay edit and totally ruining things like 'quantum physics' where there's a lot of near silent empty bits with miniscule scurrying details

in terms of the Canon:
for me it's Tago Mago battling it out with Babulama to be #1. Side two of Babaluma would just inch ahead of the 'mushroom/yeah' side of mago.

with Future Days not too far behind either of them

for some reason Ege Bamyasi has never hit me that hard whereas for a lot of Americans, that record is The One

Unlimited Edition has some really out stuff on it as i recall

i like the idea of reconsidering the Virgin era stuff but practically speaking i never put them on, although Landed has got so nice stuff on it

when i was a Pil-head in 80 or so i heeded wobble's word in the nme and went to check out Can and bought some comp whose name i forget, it was all Virgin era and i was exceedingly underwhelmed -- 'i want more' and the violin-y one (half past dawn?) on landed. couldn't see what the fuss was all about.

okay where do we stand on the solo stuff? for me it's Movies by several miles.

PS btw matt , hopey glass = mark sinker (the name coming from that character in Love and Rockets, which Mark is obsessed with). there was a classic letter in the Wire's letters from readers page, complaining about some Hopey Glass piece and saying "she tries hard but she's no Mark Sinker"

blissblogger
09-11-2004, 07:49 PM
Can-on

should have spelled it that way!

nonightsweats
09-11-2004, 08:55 PM
ege bamyasi is the one i've always loved but, that too, was the 1st thing of theirs i purchased so maybe the constant repeat playing in my bedroom had something to do with it.

i'd read about the band in NME mid 70s and wanted to get the records badly but could never find them (australia being a complete backwater at the time). then i accidentally saw the ege cover in a really bad record store in a biggish suburb near me in the $2 rack. and never looked back. i think this was the experience in the US too : cut-out bins everywhere full of them - at least that's what i've read a few people say.

as also mentioned - that 2nd half of babaluma is near their best stuff.

rob_giri
09-11-2004, 09:28 PM
Funnily enough everytime i think of 'Soon Over...' I think of you Reynolds when you mentioned in your blog once (or was it in Energy Flash?) that you thought Quantum Physics/Chain Reaction was Can's most 'cosmic groove'. And also your description of Can's "ethnofunkadelic groovescapes" haha, great!

As for side projects, true 'Movies' is a gem, but i think Canaxis was just too cool to pass up. There was a period where i'd just listen to 'Boat-Woman Song' over and over. Now thats cultural imperialism for ya! (yawn)

Anyone seen Damo Suzuki play? Saw him twice in melbourne, utterly cosmic. Unfortunately i didn't see his third show, which apparently was completely insane. Damo himself said later that it was the 'third-greatest show' he'd ever played, and that included Can! He's going to release it i've heard. Meeting him was the first chance i've had at meeting an a near-idol. Twas quite an strange affair. 'Damo, you changed my life, man!', and this strange bearded Japanese man looks back at me with a smile to end all smiles.

xero
10-11-2004, 10:50 AM
Just read simon's piece on DFA - does James Murphy own scores of Can 'Future Days' t-shirts or does he wear the same one every day?

Woebot
10-11-2004, 10:57 AM
when i was a Pil-head in 80 or so i heeded wobble's word in the nme and went to check out Can and bought some comp whose name i forget, it was all Virgin era and i was exceedingly underwhelmed -- 'i want more' and the violin-y one (half past dawn?) on landed. couldn't see what the fuss was all about.

yeah for a while the virgin things were the only things i could find. i think i picked up flow motion (is it?) a couple of years before i bought tago mago, and just couldnt see what all the fuss was about. i remember that comp with its almost apologetic liner notes, the writer professing to have found nothing worth checking out in the later Can-onTM, before being chastened by a friend along the lines of, you really should check it out, theres some worthwhile things in there....(tympani rolls.......whopee cushion)

for me Can is best broken out into single tracks (cos lets face it even the great LPs are marred by slightly crazed forays into the bizarre, thats the charm/genius of the crew) In no particular order:

1) Paperhouse/Mushroom
2) I'm so Green
3) Pinch
4) Yoo Doo Right
5) Dont turn out the lights leave me alone
6) That one off Limited Edition with Damo and the flute
etc ad infitinitum


okay where do we stand on the solo stuff? for me it's Movies by several miles.

Well Canaxis is essentially a Holger solo record, so probably that. Ive always thought those Liebezeit Soundtrack things were pretty disappointing. I guess Holger worked better as a collaborator, and thats Can isnt it, a Fourth Mind thing: Phew, Vamps, Rastakraut Pasta etc

People have nice things to say about Damo Suzuki's solo stuff, but I often fear out of generosity.........


PS btw matt , hopey glass = mark sinker (the name coming from that character in Love and Rockets, which Mark is obsessed with). there was a classic letter in the Wire's letters from readers page, complaining about some Hopey Glass piece and saying "she tries hard but she's no Mark Sinker"

Ha! Thats brilliant! Well whaddaya know!

Woebot
10-11-2004, 10:59 AM
That can only have been the now-defunct Atlantis store, from which I took home tablets by Pere Ubu, Thomas Mapfumo, Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, Sugar Minott...
Funny to think one of your musical epiphanies happened down my neck of the woods, in that store, no less. It's a small, small world indeed.

sweet, i was hoping someone would know that! aah those were the days, egotripping round europe. i still have my notebook from that day, drawings i made at an egon schiele exhibition. vienna rules..........

Woebot
10-11-2004, 11:04 AM
The only obsession that has ever rivaled that of Can is, funnily enough, Neu!. I listened to their first record, bought on beautifully reissued white vinyl, every day for about 9-months when i was 15, spliffing away in my room in Melbourne's southern suburbs. I even made a t-shirt out of that Michael Rother photo on Neu-75 in year-10 art class, wore it just the other day :)

hey cotb!

you're so OTM here. without a shade of a doubt neu! were up there with can for me too in that period of rediscovery/fetish. again (weirdly) a mantra. ive a memory of scouring nyc for neu! in 1991, standing by the guggenheim going "neu! neu! neu! neu! neu!" in my mind. after can nothing came close to the hit of those records, and (pre-eBay) they were EVEN MORE IMPOSSIBLE to get my mitts on. i had two tracks from Neu 75 on a tape my girlfriend's big brother made me, and that was enough to send me round the bleeding twist.

sufi
10-11-2004, 11:09 AM
nights spliffing endlessly to tago mago. mushroom.


yup ;)

Diggedy Derek
10-11-2004, 11:14 AM
Solo-wise, the Holger Czukay/Jah Wobble/Jaki Liebzeit set Full Circle on Virgin is fantastically good, pretty much like prime era Can but deeper, more dubby and soundtrack like. And Canaxis (Czukay and Ralf Dammers is a staggeringly good tape experiment thing that's fully the equal of yer La Monte Youngs / Alvin Luciers.

jwd
10-11-2004, 11:15 AM
'ege bamyasi' was the one that got me, my best mate james being a mad can fiend when i shared a house w/him at age 17-19, i remember finding 'future days' on vinyl (one of the few he hadn't scored) and he pulled such an incredible guilt trip on me i had to let go of my copy (i did trade it for an orig. vinyl 'dreamweapon' so i didn't do too badly, only to have a spacemen 3 obsessive friend guilt me out of THAT one too. i'm stronger now.) but yeah, 'ege', the ONE for me, "pinch" moves... after that 'tago mago' and 'future days', i think i'm alone in finding some of the malcolm mooney stuff a bit too rigid.

one of the loveliest things can ever did was their short contribution to the soundtrack of wim wenders' 'alice in the cities', i wish they'd make that available on some odds'n'ends cd, alongside those 7" singles that are impossible to find. their relationship with wenders leading to them contributing to the soundtrack to one of his weakest films too, can't even remember the name of it, but the song was... "last night sleep"? not so bad for late 80s can actually. wenders should have stopped making films after that road trilogy. solo stuff? after 'movies' it was all a bit feh really wasn't it. that irmin schmidt 'toy planet' thing, i'm glad i only paid 50c for that one!

damo suzuki gig in sydney, a friend reports damo sighing into the microphone "i am so happy, i could cry."

childofthebogosphere, if you need some (more) lamonte, drop me a private message.

hamarplazt
10-11-2004, 11:18 AM
On the way to the peak of normal is by far my favorite. I even play it more than the proper Can records. Actually I must admit that when I finally got my hands on some Can, after I had read all these highly evocative articles about how far out and mindblowing they were supposed to be, I was somehow not blown away at all. And that wasen't the later stuff, but Tago Mago!

jwd
10-11-2004, 11:25 AM
actually does anyone have an opinion on the can DVD, i've not seen it, am intrigued... the only can footage i've seen/i have is the (incredible) "paperhouse" from beat club and some hilariously camp versions of "can can" and "i want more" off some german variety show. (also popol vuh doing "bettina" on beat club, ooooh!!!, i notice those early popol vuh albums are also getting the reissue treatment with extra tracks...)

rob_giri
10-11-2004, 02:01 PM
Yea! You should check out the 5-minute long Brian Eno film on the DVD, friggin hilarious. Just these skits of him describing Can's sound and dressing up in...outfits...to fit the adjective. Can't remember many of them, but i do remember him cross-dressing on more than one occasion, and holding a miniture palm tree on his head. He finishes off by saying '...and they were very, very, German' and holds up one of those WW1 helmets with the spike. What a strange lad.

I never watched anything else on the DVD but i managed to pick up a VHS copy of the documentary by sheer luck at Camberwell Markets in melbourne (just walking by a record crate, see the cover of Bamyasi sitting next to Syd Barret's First Trip, which, oddly enough, i had a quasi-religious experience with stoned and listened to Oval's Systemisch. Glitch and colour Super-8 - what a revelation). Those parts in the doco when they're all sitting on the stairs of the Inner Space studio and talking about the faceless, opinionless expectation of musicians in contemporary society. Jeez, Schmidt was really something. And those leather suits he wore while jumping all over his Farfizer keyboards, hilarious!

cortempond
10-11-2004, 04:10 PM
Glad to see the forum on Can. I have been listening to a lot of their live recordings lately, Radio Waves and the live set included in the Can box set. There is also a Can DVD featuring a history of the band plus new performances of them in separate efforts.

Have really come to appreciate Jaki Leibzeit's drum sound. It's quite incredible and one of a kind. There is no one who attacks his kit in that rolling style like him. It's more diffuse and propulsive than Dinger's Motorik style, though I know there are different musical agendas between Neu and Can.

I remember picking up Soon Over Babaluma (on vinyl) in 1984 in a cut out record bin for $3.50. I put it on and Dizzy Dizzy immediately made me a convert to the Can experience. At that time (in Chicago, at least) no one really knew about Can or the Krautrock sound, so it was hard to track down their recordings. I was able to find Future Days and Monster Movie on vinyl and the sound is amazing in comparison to the Mute reissues.

I am partial to Soundtracks because of Mother Sky. The version by Loop made me seek out the original. I think it is one of the most overlooked Can albums, that and Landed.

Since then I have tried to track down everything Can has done as well as the individual members. Was a bit disappointed with the Phantom Band record. The stuff with Burnt Freidmann, however, is worth hearing.

Jamie S
10-11-2004, 05:10 PM
actually does anyone have an opinion on the can DVD, i've not seen it, am intrigued... the only can footage i've seen/i have is the (incredible) "paperhouse" from beat club and some hilariously camp versions of "can can" and "i want more" off some german variety show. (also popol vuh doing "bettina" on beat club, ooooh!!!, i notice those early popol vuh albums are also getting the reissue treatment with extra tracks...)


The Kosmische club (which Jim Backhouse puts on, I think)had a special evening playing nothing but CAN when the DVD came out. They showed it early on and I was a bit underwhelmed. There was some late live footage from a TV show (which might be the same stuff you're talking about) which reminded me of the Julian Cope quote about 'extremely crap white gloves'.

The night was cool, though. They put together this edit/mix of Mother Sky that went on for 30 minutres and was THE MOST AMAZING THING ever.

I also went to that screening of some rare Krautrock films on the south bank in (around) 97, which was better. There was a fairly long concert film with Damo singing, filmed I think by Wim Wenders, which had excellent bits in it and they all look fabulous. (Bobby G and Damon Albarn sat near us, taking notes) (Is this film on the DVD? Damo's in a red jumpsuit)

The first thing I bought (age 18, in '92) was Unlimited Edition, which wasn't a great place to start. Stuff like Cutaway and the EFS things seemed a bit hippy-ish to my naive ears. It set me back a few years until I heard Haleluwah when my ears (and heart) melted.

Actually, I've been put off the stuff later than Future Days by Copey. I'll have to get the re-issues of some of them as they seem to be getting props here.

xero
10-11-2004, 06:31 PM
Have really come to appreciate Jaki Leibzeit's drum sound. It's quite incredible and one of a kind. There is no one who attacks his kit in that rolling style like him. It's more diffuse and propulsive than Dinger's Motorik style, though I know there are different musical agendas between Neu and Can.


Word - I also like Mani Neumeier's drumming on albums he did with Dieter Moebius in the 80s like 'Zero Set' I know he was in Guru Guru and have heard the odd bit of their stuff but does anyone know any other good stuff he has played on?

The Can live footage that I think was on that DVD was screened during the interval of Michael Clark's dance show 'Oh my Goddess.' It was on around this time last year and also included a piece based around Can's 'Oh Yeah' which was pretty stunning, not least for just hearing it on a big fuck-off PA system

carlos
10-11-2004, 07:22 PM
Word - I also like Mani Neumeier's drumming on albums he did with Dieter Moebius in the 80s like 'Zero Set' I know he was in Guru Guru and have heard the odd bit of their stuff but does anyone know any other good stuff he has played on?

he plays drums on the second Harmonia LP (Deluxe) which is pretty fantastic- though the drumming is mostly very subdued

Mani's best work in my opinion is on the first three Guru Guru albums- the first two (UFO, Hinten) have lots of electronics and noise effects while the third (Kanguru) has a cleaner sound but the drumming has a more groove-heavy feel which i really dig.

Guru Guru's bass player Uli Trepte had a band called Spacebox in the late 70s/early 80s- i have one of their LPs on CD- very freaky jamming tunes- seems close to This Heat post-punk territory with the mix of bass/drums and weird electronics and tapes. but with a lot of hippy strangeness...

xero
10-11-2004, 10:00 PM
thanks carlos - hinten's the one i've heard but kanguru sounds more up my street - it's the unadorned drum sound on zero set that I love, contrasts so well with the electronics

rob_giri
11-11-2004, 08:38 AM
jaki liebezeit one of the best drummers ever

No, Jaki Liebezeit IS the best drummer ever. I honestly can't think of anyone cooler. In the psych categpry all i can think of now is Mitch Mitchell, Robert Wyatt and maybe Danny Taylor from Silber Apples, but no where near as good as Jaki. His style is totally unique, metronomic and machine like, and just completely cosmic. Thats why i love Future Days the best i reckon, because his drumming is just heavenly - absolutely brilliant.

Perhaps we can turn this thread into a drummer worshipping one. Favourite drummers, anyone? I've well and truly accentuated mine.

rob_giri
11-11-2004, 08:41 AM
Thanks guys, will check out those Guru Guru albums. And yea the Live concert on the DVD is in 1972 at the Cologne Sporthall, with Damo and a funky flared jumpsuit and a guy juggling. Filmed by Wenders you say? cool.

hamarplazt
11-11-2004, 09:26 AM
Perhaps we can turn this thread into a drummer worshipping one. Favourite drummers, anyone? I've well and truly accentuated mine.

Chris Cutler. Certainly not as cool as Liebzeit, but nevertheless. Cutlers drumming excites me the same way as great jungle programming does. Underwater fireworks.

Diggedy Derek
11-11-2004, 09:38 AM
There was some late live footage from a TV show (which might be the same stuff you're talking about) which reminded me of the Julian Cope quote about 'extremely crap white gloves'.

Julian Cope handing out sartorial tips? Ridiculous!

rob_giri
11-11-2004, 10:36 AM
Yea, i like those white gloves! I remember seeing them for the first time and thinking 'hey, thats cool!' Makes Holger look that much more funky.

Chris Cutler, hey. Never listened to Henry Cow before, heard many good things. Anyone suggest any good records?

jimbackhouse
11-11-2004, 02:42 PM
The Kosmische club (which Jim Backhouse puts on, I think)had a special evening playing nothing but CAN when the DVD came out. They showed it early on and I was a bit underwhelmed. There was some late live footage from a TV show (which might be the same stuff you're talking about) which reminded me of the Julian Cope quote about 'extremely crap white gloves'.

The night was cool, though. They put together this edit/mix of Mother Sky that went on for 30 minutres and was THE MOST AMAZING THING ever...

:o

Unfortunately I can't take the credit for putting it on: it's Leon who run tings really.

Glad you liked my Mother Sky re-edit: I can send you a copy if you like, but it'll probably sound a bit ropier in the cold light of day!

The Can DVD isn't exactly great, the best bit being the free concert footage (which was already available on video anyway) the extra stuff is pretty superfluous, although it's fun to see Holger et al returning to Schloss Norvenich (?) to have a poke about. The talking heads from James Lavelle et al is pretty pointless: 'Man, they were such a big influence on us...' bla bla.



As for Henry Cow, my personal favourite is the 'Concerts' CD, which has some amazing guest appearances from Robert Wyatt, Dagmar Krause, etc. and seems a lot more open than the sometimes deadeningly earnest 'serious musicians slumming it' fustiness of their studio LPs (although there are moments on 'In Praise of Learning' which I LOVE).



Christian Vander surely deserves a place in the pantheon of great psych/prog drummers, no?

rob_giri
11-11-2004, 03:18 PM
The talking heads from James Lavelle et al is pretty pointless: 'Man, they were such a big influence on us...' bla bla.

Yea, what does everyone think of that Sacrilege tribute? Some were utter shite! For instance Westbam??? Pity how they ended the doco with film of him playing his 'I want more' cover at a club. eerrggh. And Carl Craig's Future Days cover is crap. The Yoo Doo Right cover i kind of like though. What i thought was funny about the James Lavelle was that you can just imagine him searching the Can catalogue looking for the track with the fattest beats (Vitamin C) and then putting more kick drum sounds on to make it sound fatter. Not bad redux, not much change though, which was probably why it was so good. Same with Sonic Youth's Spoon cover (slowing it down! Genius!)


Christian Vander surely deserves a place in the pantheon of great psych/prog drummers, no?

True.

Diggedy Derek
11-11-2004, 03:23 PM
A Guy Called Gerald's Tango Whiskeyman was ace.

rob_giri
11-11-2004, 04:10 PM
A Guy Called Gerald's Tango Whiskeyman was ace.

Yea! forgot to mention that one!

cortempond
11-11-2004, 05:44 PM
Totally agree that Sacrilege was quite awful - pointless excercise to move a few more units and make some xtra coin. Good example of that today is the Morricone Remix discs. Title for those two should be sacrilege, indeed. Morricone is (even with the Zorn Big Gundown set) one of those people whose stuff you don't mess with.

Thanks for bringing Vander up. I don't know (and might be wrong, I'm sure someone will tell me) why Magma doesn't have the same level of adoration as do Faust and Can. Too prog?

Speaking of prog, shout out to Bill Bruford for his drumwork in King Crim (see Red and the USA live album) and other projects (dunno about UK, though).

xero
11-11-2004, 05:45 PM
Yea, what does everyone think of that Sacrilege tribute? Some were utter shite! For instance Westbam??? Pity how they ended the doco with film of him playing his 'I want more' cover at a club. eerrggh. And Carl Craig's Future Days cover is crap. The Yoo Doo Right cover i kind of like though. What i thought was funny about the James Lavelle was that you can just imagine him searching the Can catalogue looking for the track with the fattest beats (Vitamin C) and then putting more kick drum sounds on to make it sound fatter. Not bad redux, not much change though, which was probably why it was so good. Same with Sonic Youth's Spoon cover (slowing it down! Genius!)

was francois kevorkian's drum & bass effort on that? I bought it unheard on 12"vinyl thinking of previous can related highs like Snake Charmer but it's pretty dire

hamarplazt
12-11-2004, 11:46 AM
Chris Cutler, hey. Never listened to Henry Cow before, heard many good things. Anyone suggest any good records?

I like all the Henry Cow records, but still, they haven't really made the truly great one that everybody should own. Unrest and Western Culture could be good ones to start with. Cutler is on some great Pere Ubu/David Thomas records too. Thomas' More Places Forever particulary good I think. Got Lindsay Cooper on it too!!!

rob_giri
12-11-2004, 12:38 PM
Whoah, listening to Unrest now. Chris Cutler was one cool drummer

kek-w
14-11-2004, 07:54 PM
:o

As for Henry Cow, my personal favourite is the 'Concerts' CD, Yeah, I'm with Jim on that one. Cutler is one heckuva an underrated drummer/percussionist.

Jaki's the king, though, but the drummer from Circle is no slouch either...very post-Jaki rhythmic-pulse style. And Dinger, of course: Avant-Glam. And Klaus Schultz in Ash Ra Tempel...not incredibly technically gifted, but he's exactly where the music needs him to be, and that's what counts.

I've also got a huge soft spot for Chester Thompson - Zappa & The Mother's drummer circa '73-'75 (also in (gak!) Post-Gabriel Genesis but let's not go there...)...like Cutler, theoretically Prog, but Anti-Prog by virtue of context.

And Miles got through some phonomenal drummers in his early '70's electric period.

reposed
15-11-2004, 10:27 PM
ive a memory of scouring nyc for neu! in 1991, ...heh.. for me, the reason why this stuff is so pivotal is not so much for the music (though of course it blew my head in time), it's more for the process of discovery. searching it out happened to be my first faltering steps at collecting. these early embarassing moments were in records records in dunedin, new zealand, circa 1993, asking for neu, can and (just a sec, i'll get my bit of paper) oh yeh, fowst. the following year, can also provided my first experience into the familiar cycle of adrenaline thrills after paying silly money for plastic, followed by the downer of regret when your drink kitty is suffering, followed by the thrill of the package arriving. i guess i'm grateful to them for that.

i hear what you're saying about the LPs being marred by spun-out songs that hinder the flow. it's why ege bamyasi is the album i play least, and future days single-tracked side 2 (perhaps) the most, even though it's not my favourite song. i have a solution for smoothing the edges on paperhouse in tago mago - damo's complete intimacy performing it on the can box vhs with his mesmising expressions filling the screen will rearrange the 'baaccck of yr myyynd.. '

carlos
16-11-2004, 03:13 PM
last couple of days i've been re-listening to my mid90s restless/mute cd reissues of "tago mago", "monster movie" and "ege bamyasi"- what a fine band. and these reissues sound great to me. i always assumed the hiss and grime was part of their sound- i can't imagine hearing them cleaned up. i remember when i first heard those crackling hissy basic channel records- i always thought they were paying hommage to "tago mago" (among other things)- probably wrong assumption on my part, but i would like to keep thinking that.

soundslike1981
29-06-2005, 05:16 AM
Anyone got any of the new batch yet? I ordered them all yesterday. 'Future Days' was the one I was most looking forward to---seemed to have the most small detail that could be well-served by a quality remaster.


The first I heard was 'Tago Mago,' which was probably just about perfect. I was 16, and really needed it. I couldn't believe the rhythms, and it might've been the launch of my shift from liking music from an "emotional" basis (the Joni Mitchell/my mother singing songs for me at night on her guitar influence) to listening with my body/head much moreso. Jaki's rhythms still sound like they come from some perfect future, which I can't ever quite figure out as really they're so simple. . . maybe it's the way that he sounds like a perfect human/machine hybrid. And they were just so understated and huge at the same time--never sounding hippie-ish. The only basis for comparison I really had was some Miles Davis and Jimi Hendrix (esp. live stuff) and the Meters, all of whom I still tie in together (logically or not).


As for ranking faves (to go back in time a year for you lot)--never done it before, but:


01 Ege Bamyasi / Future Days
02 Tago Mago
03 Monster Movies / Delay 1968
04 Can (if you lop off the last three tracks)
05 Soundtracks
06 Soon Over Babulama
07 Unlimited Edition
08 Landed


Haven't heard 'Flow Motion' or 'Saw Delight,' though I'll pick them up in the reissue series.

I think 'Can' is really underrated--drop the pointless last three tracks (what a downer way to end, on such cheesiness) and you've got a great poppy semi-dancey record with a few nice touches of spookiness. Plus, some of the best non Mooney/Suzuki vocals. Not sure why it's so harshly criticised.


As for solo, Czukay definitely wins hands down. I'd put everything he did on his own, and his collabs with Phew, Wobble, even Eurythmics, over any other solo stuff I've heard.

francesco
29-06-2005, 09:35 AM
I will immediately pick up "future days" and "soon over babaluma", both of wich I adore immensely, next time i have time to go shopping. I'll not so keen on Landed, i have a vynil at stored parent's house and I remember i didn't kile it too much, but it was ten years ago last time i have listened to it...
... I', very curious of "unlimited edition": it's any good? Is one of the few Can album I don't know anything about it? recommended or not? very good or "so so"?
thanks

Benny B
23-01-2017, 09:12 PM
RIP Jaki

bruno
24-01-2017, 05:03 AM
he absolutely kills it on the 1981 phew album with holger and conny, arguably the best can outing. it still sounds like something from the future.

bruno
24-01-2017, 11:57 PM
i miss polystyle.