'nuum as cultural history of West Indian immigration

luka

Well-known member
This has been my way of looking at it, particularly since I did some cursory research into the English sound system history and culture.

I said right from the start that grime was something new in that English kids of African descent played a prominent part. In that sense it was the end of one strand of history and the beginning of another.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I think that's a better way of looking at it than most. Except ska, rocksteady, reggae etc don't count as part of the 'nuum?

So it's a truncated history which only really starts at a particular point.

The cultural history of west indian immigration would include lots of other things (Bus strikes, anti-racism, food, fiction, film, etc).

And I think the 'nuum is also about West Indian immigration and its interplay/assimilation with existing English/British culture. Like, it becomes something else - a hybrid.
 

luka

Well-known member
And I think the 'nuum is also about West Indian immigration and its interplay/assimilation with existing English/British culture. Like, it becomes something else - a hybrid.

of course. thats the crux of my viewpoint.
 

luka

Well-known member
so it doesnt include forms which are west indian. it begins at the point at which something becomes identifyiably both west indian and english and it stops at grime which is also roughly around the time west indians have become a comparatively priveleged group,(enlgish speaking, christian, well established, represented on eastenders etc) as opposed to, say, somalians.
 

luka

Well-known member
The cultural history of west indian immigration would include lots of other things (Bus strikes, anti-racism, food, fiction, film, etc).

this too goes without saying. perhaps it would be better to say, a history.
 

luka

Well-known member
It's a way of thinking about what it is, why it is, why it starts and ends when it starts and ends, why it's geographical strongholds were where they were etc etc
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
What African influences were there in grime?

I listened to the Geeneus RA interview recently and he was saying that they created grime accidentally, because they were trying and failing to make garage.
 

luka

Well-known member
i never said there were african influences in grime. i think thats too simplistic a way of looking at things. also wiley was perfectly adept at making garage so i dont buy that line of gs
 

Pearsall

Prodigal Son
What African influences were there in grime?

I listened to the Geeneus RA interview recently and he was saying that they created grime accidentally, because they were trying and failing to make garage.

I think Luka means that grime was the first time that there were so many African British guys at the forefront of the music (Dizzee, JME, Skepta, Lethal B, Ruff Skwad, etc). I skipped UKG because it wasn't my thing, but in jungle/dnb I am pretty certain that almost all of the black British guys involved were from West Indian backgrounds, Mampi Swift is the only one I can think of otherwise (his parents are from Ghana).
 

luka

Well-known member
you already had these type of tunes which is what grime was building off. no one was trying to sound like dem 2 at that point and the mcs already were already going in a different direction and wanting a blanker canvas to work on.
 

luka

Well-known member
I think Luka means that grime was the first time that there were so many African kids at the forefront of the music (Dizzee, JME, Skepta, Lethal B, Ruff Skwad, etc). I skipped UKG because it wasn't my thing, but in jungle/dnb I am pretty certain that almost all of the black British guys involved were from West Indian backgrounds, Mampi Swift is the only one I can think of otherwise (his parents are from Ghana).

exactly. im talking demographics not ethnomusicology.
 

luka

Well-known member
not going to start talking about ancient african bongo patterns. my names not zhao.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
LOL.

Yeah that's all good, Luka. So the 'nuum is a particular hybrid (UK/JA) which then starts to collapse when other ingredients come into the mix.

Mind you, it excludes other JA/UK hybrids, like Two Tone and some of the postpunk stuff... :D
 

luka

Well-known member
it excludes stuff i dont like thats true. its like any history. it clarifies by excluding and falsifying. like mcluhans reading of history through technological innovation or whatever. its not true but its not untrue either.
 

droid

Well-known member
But this is the mirror image of Woebots anti-reggae theory of jungle. You just can't ignore the American influences - house music, and to a lesser extent, hip hop, techno.
 

luka

Well-known member
i feel intuitively that africans coming to outnumber west indians in the uk was a fairly signigicant development and had fairly far reaching consequences.
 

luka

Well-known member
But this is the mirror image of Woebots anti-reggae theory of jungle. You just can't ignore the American influences - house music, and to a lesser extent, hip hop, techno.

i dont want to ignore them but there were no african americans making jungle music, or garage or anything else
 

luka

Well-known member
so those influences are important to the extent to which they were picked up on and assimiliated by uk west indians (and their peers of other ethnicities of course)
 

luka

Well-known member
remember this is not enthnomusicology im talking about. its more about demographics and identity.
 
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