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luka
19-12-2016, 09:14 PM
Sex pistols you nerd

sadmanbarty
19-12-2016, 09:17 PM
Pistols

luka
19-12-2016, 09:17 PM
Not even close. Stooges were a buncha poseurs

Corpsey
20-12-2016, 11:33 AM
Sex Pistols only have three or four really good songs IMO, but those three or four are unfuckwittable.

droid
20-12-2016, 11:40 AM
VU or the Beatles?

Benny B
20-12-2016, 11:54 AM
Love them both to death but it has to be the stooges. I still can't shake the feeling I had when I finally got hold of a copy of Raw Power after reading about the stooges so much, and it actually exceeding my expectations. Then when I finally got funhouse (which took a fair bit of tracking down in the 90s) and that deadly riff from 'down in the street' kicked in, I was like, this is the coolest sounding record I've ever heard.

Whereas the pistols were just kind of always there, I didn't have to go looking for them. Everyone knows anarchy in the uk and Pretty vacant. So when I heard bollocks for the first time it didn't really have the same impact on me. And, as far as albums go, I think I prefer the clash's debut to the pistols', even though I think the pistols were the better band overall.

I'm probably not alone in preferring PiL to the pistols actually.

Benny B
20-12-2016, 12:13 PM
Stooges were better than the pistols, but if the question was 'Lydon or Pop?', I'd go for the former, if that makes sense.

Corpsey
20-12-2016, 12:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cvrz-Ynor4

VS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mSE-Iy_tFY

CrowleyHead
20-12-2016, 01:09 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AQGULOxSF9U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

No challenge tbh.

Corpsey
20-12-2016, 01:36 PM
http://www.songwritingmagazine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Lydon.jpg

Leo
20-12-2016, 02:03 PM
love them both but it's the stooges for me.

stooges were original nihilistic drug-crazed wild men, the pistols were a prefab boy band invented by mclaren in ripped t-shirts (style stolen from richard hell) and naughty words.

that said, the pistols had a greater impact on society at the time. hardly anyone knew the stooges during their three-album career (not counting the later reunion stuff), certainly not mainstream music fans and just regular people in general, whereas the pistols were in the charts and tabloids and on TV.

stooges were like the velvets: tremendous impact on music but all well after the fact, very few paid attention at the time.

martin
20-12-2016, 03:04 PM
stooges were original nihilistic drug-crazed wild men, the pistols were a prefab boy band invented by mclaren in ripped t-shirts (style stolen from richard hell) and naughty words.
.

It was that constant lauding of the Stooges as "nihilistic", "drug-crazed" and "wild" that baffled me when I got round to finally hearing "Funhouse" and "Metallic KO". Which just sound like stodgy barroom blues recorded through a wall.

"Raw Power" is a great album though, mainly thanks to James Williamson playing guitar like a Vietnam vet going mental in a crowded shopping centre, but the first two LPs are way over-rated, leaden and boring. Stooges should have given "I Wanna Be Your Dog" to a better band.

Anyway Iggy was a genuine hippy into macrobiotic diets, and the Stooges had long hair and no Jamie Reid, so Sex Pistols win.

Corpsey
20-12-2016, 03:10 PM
Re: the wildness and nihilism, perhaps this was a reputation more based on their live shows than their albums? I've read plenty about how Iggy would writhe around in broken glass on stage and fire ping pong balls from his arsehole into the drummer's face to catch him off guard and keep the rhythm section interesting.

martin
20-12-2016, 03:33 PM
Yeah, that might well be true.

It's just that after reading stuff like this


In the essay "Iggy Pop: Blowtorch in Bondage" critic Lester Bangs calls the album a "documentation of the Iggy holocaust at its most nihilistically out of control." He describes the Stooges concert he attended that immediately preceded the Metallic K.O. performances:

"By now the hatred in the room is one huge livid wave, and Iggy singles out one heckler who has been particularly abusive: "Listen, asshole, you heckle me one more time and I'm gonna come down there and kick your ass." "Fuck you, you little punk," responds the biker. So Iggy jumps off the stage, runs through the middle of the crowd, and the guy beats the shit out of him, ending the evening's musical festivities by sending the lead singer back to his motel room and a doctor. The next day the bike gang, who call themselves the Scorpions, will phone WABX-FM and promise to kill Iggy and the Stooges if they play the Michigan Palace on Thursday night. They do (play, that is), and nobody gets killed, but Metallic K.O. is the only rock album I know where you can actually hear hurled beer bottles breaking against guitar strings.[3]
I was expecting something that sounded like a Whitehouse gig, rather than sloopy boogie-woogie on a run-down tape recorder.

To be fair though, I've got a Pistols bootleg from '76 in Manchester (the same night I was born, that legendary Free Trade Hall gig) - musically it just sounds like a very typical and bland pub rock covers band (with all the Small Faces, Who numbers, etc) - even the versions of Pretty Vacant and Did You No Wrong just sound like an average 70s pub group; amazing to think everyone who saw this performance claims it changed their lives.

Benny B
20-12-2016, 03:40 PM
Yeah, that might well be true.

It's just that after reading stuff like this


I was expecting something that sounded like a Whitehouse gig, rather than sloopy boogie-woogie on a run-down tape recorder.
.

I had the same experience with Metallic KO, totally overrated. You can't even really hear the supposedly angry crowd of Hells Angels baying for Iggy's blood. The addition of a piano player was definitely uncalled for too.

Funhouse is genuinely unhinged though, theres no way you can just lump it in with the admittedly fairly stodgy-in-places debut

Benny B
20-12-2016, 03:42 PM
To be fair though, I've got a Pistols bootleg from '76 in Manchester (the same night I was born, that legendary Free Trade Hall gig) - musically it just sounds like a very typical and bland pub rock covers band (with all the Small Faces, Who numbers, etc) - even the versions of Pretty Vacant and Did You No Wrong just sound like an average 70s pub group; amazing to think everyone who saw this performance claims it changed their lives.

even mick hucknall was there!

martin
20-12-2016, 04:02 PM
Funhouse is genuinely unhinged though, theres no way you can just lump it in with the admittedly fairly stodgy-in-places debut

I'll have to check it out again - I just remember it sounding really muffled, like someone had run the tape under water? And then some long track that defeated me.

Corpsey
20-12-2016, 04:03 PM
To be fair though, I've got a Pistols bootleg from '76 in Manchester (the same night I was born, that legendary Free Trade Hall gig) - musically it just sounds like a very typical and bland pub rock covers band (with all the Small Faces, Who numbers, etc) - even the versions of Pretty Vacant and Did You No Wrong just sound like an average 70s pub group; amazing to think everyone who saw this performance claims it changed their lives.

Is it this one?

<iframe src="https://embed.spotify.com/?uri=spotify%3Aalbum%3A2LUZ2NS0cwC5BfzEN6ESSP" width="300" height="380" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true"></iframe>

Hard to judge this cos the sound quality is awful, but does Rotten/Lydon really sound like a typical bland pub rock singer on here? I don't think the band were ever that special or different musically, it was Rotten who made the difference with his weird voice and appearance. The attitude in a performance can't be captured on tape, necessarily.

Also it's the context we can't necessarily empathise with, isn't it? In the same way impressionism paintings which look like tea-towel fodder these days were once considered extremely shocking and even offensive.

Corpsey
20-12-2016, 04:06 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJghFKWwDwA

Like this performance, these days, wouldn't seem all that extreme, but back then I can imagine it being instantly polarising and offensive /inspiring to different people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjy8oLVOvi4

Another point to Lydon

Minus point for Lydon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esKnWAIgpLY

(didn't stab morgan)

Corpsey
20-12-2016, 04:12 PM
http://ksassets.timeincuk.net/wp/uploads/sites/55/2010/05/bestbook270510_19.jpg

must read this again some time

Leo
20-12-2016, 04:18 PM
don't evaluate the stooges based solely on the albums, read "i need more" to understand their real-life insane lifestyle in general. and "funhouse" is one of my favorite albums ever, a bunch of burnouts who couldn't really play their instruments very well somehow signed to a major label and thrust into a studio. of course, because they're true loser fuck ups, they blow the chance to make a "successful" album by taking copious amounts of acid, speed and heroin and come up with something cheap and nasty sounding.

martin
20-12-2016, 04:44 PM
Is it this one?

<iframe src="https://embed.spotify.com/?uri=spotify%3Aalbum%3A2LUZ2NS0cwC5BfzEN6ESSP" width="300" height="380" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true"></iframe>

Hard to judge this cos the sound quality is awful, but does Rotten/Lydon really sound like a typical bland pub rock singer on here? I don't think the band were ever that special or different musically, it was Rotten who made the difference with his weird voice and appearance. The attitude in a performance can't be captured on tape, necessarily.

Also it's the context we can't necessarily empathise with, isn't it? In the same way impressionism paintings which look like tea-towel fodder these days were once considered extremely shocking and even offensive.

Can't listen now, at work - it's been booted a lot but I picked up a CD version years ago, purely because of the gig date - think it was called 'Aggression Through Repression'.

Maybe Rotten doesn't sound like a typical pub singer, but the arrangements are HORRIBLE - Glen Matlock harmonising all over the choruses, uggh...

Sure, if you'd never seen anyone looking like that before, or heard a singer tell people to fuck off, or if the crowd were hostile /unique, the attitude would have been more important than the music. I've just always been surprised that they sounded so stodgy on that recording, like the Kursal Flyers or something.

craner
21-12-2016, 08:44 PM
I remember Captain Sensible on an Arena punk documentary in the mid-90s describing his disappointment upon hearing Anarchy in the UK: "it was like a slow pub rock durge with Albert Steptoe ranting on top". That made sense, hit home.

Never really liked the Pistols record or punk, but I appreciated their Year Zero trappings and attempted divorce from rock tradition.

When I first heard Raw Power, it sounded even worse than the Pistols, a muddy, undynamic, trad rock splurge.

Once I heard PiL's debut single, I realised that you may not have to care about either, it had so much more power and dynamism, even if it was talking about itself.