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craner
08-02-2017, 01:38 PM
Listening to this (https://www.discogs.com/187-Lockdown-Sunday-Flavaz-Volume-One/master/7967) in the car has reignited my interest in this slim piece of time (97-8?). Speed garage sounds very evocative now and definitely a London thing. I think it's aged pretty well.

What is striking though is that a lot of the speed garage guys had a very short productive period - locked in the pre-2-step period and not really venturing any further. Scott Garcia, 187 Lockdown, Double 99, Tuff Jam, KMA...careers all basically fizzled out by 1999.

How fertile is Speed Garage? What are the best tracks, or the lost gems?

droid
08-02-2017, 01:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuo8kD5zF5I

craner
08-02-2017, 02:02 PM
Ok, so Droid doesn't like it. Anyone else?

droid
08-02-2017, 02:11 PM
I love it. Thats a pop garage classic.

Leo
08-02-2017, 02:20 PM
found this in a $1 used bin a few years ago, does this qualify?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cg7lQ5fCfI

craner
08-02-2017, 02:23 PM
Yep!

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 02:45 PM
Proto grime bass. Also very mournful like a lot of grime. Maybe the saddest piece of music I've ever heard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKxIX20Fsq0

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 02:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fX0HUHpBSU

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 02:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQGt8cB-WIU

Corpsey
08-02-2017, 03:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLli8nhwaImsDFIsE310pio2VD6-8-tVQ3

I don't really know what speed garage is but apparently this playlist is

4X4 beat + heavy/dubby bassline?

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 03:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLli8nhwaImsDFIsE310pio2VD6-8-tVQ3

I don't really know what speed garage is but apparently this playlist is

4X4 beat + heavy/dubby bassline?

US Garage's rhtymic template + elements from jungle (bass, ragga samples, gunshots, vocal stretch's etc.)


It's faster than US garage as well.

martin
08-02-2017, 03:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX2AQv0WvJs

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 04:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4nCtzJDxOQ

droid
08-02-2017, 04:25 PM
Theres another one as well... cant remember what it was called.

droid
08-02-2017, 04:29 PM
I think bass is a big factor, there's line between 4 x 4 garage and speed garage, which I would generally associate with big reesey basslines, not sure if that distinction is generally accepted though?


https://youtu.be/dj9wQOdIn40

Corpsey
08-02-2017, 04:29 PM
Theres another one as well... cant remember what it was called.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bv_36P_f-w

Dem Girls

craner
08-02-2017, 04:38 PM
Didn't 'Flat Eric' get play on the garage pirates? Or is that some bollocks I invented?

Corpsey
08-02-2017, 04:43 PM
Might well have

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giwMVWR5ETA

This definitely did

droid
08-02-2017, 05:11 PM
Another weareie speed garage version.

PiLhead
08-02-2017, 05:20 PM
consummate


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiJVxZhxzq8

Corpsey
08-02-2017, 05:23 PM
That playlist I linked before was from Niche - did speed garage carry on in the midlands/north, ultimately to evolve into bassline/jackin?

luka
08-02-2017, 05:40 PM
Didn't 'Flat Eric' get play on the garage pirates? Or is that some bollocks I invented?

Yeah and in the clubs too. Firstor second time I went in club space/club eq this is what was playing. Mind you it was after the speed garage period.

luka
08-02-2017, 05:42 PM
Actually this stuff is sounding better now than it did then

PiLhead
08-02-2017, 05:43 PM
UKG deep cut


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMQn7VECNKM&feature=youtu.be

20 years ago...

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 05:52 PM
That playlist I linked before was from Niche - did speed garage carry on in the midlands/north, ultimately to evolve into bassline/jackin?

Type 'niche sheffield' into mixcloud and there you'll get lots of pre-bassline sets from the early 2000's. Lots of speed garage, but also organ house and other 4x4 stuff.

PiLhead
08-02-2017, 05:54 PM
the breakdown at 1.05 is so odd... ancient to the future


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TaowoOMY8k

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 05:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV5aBaZfKWI

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 05:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUEcyUfUks0

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 06:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLbGsW0pkzE

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 06:08 PM
Another weareie speed garage version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTgwI1yQjV0

PiLhead
08-02-2017, 06:08 PM
Steve Gurley remix of Operator and Baffled



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA8CjDLeyro

craner
08-02-2017, 06:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlJ6Qpwd3oA

Benny B
08-02-2017, 07:08 PM
My first proper contribution to dissensus was a speed garage/4x4 mix, seemed to go down well at the time https://www.mixcloud.com/bennybrassic/speed-garage-1996-97/

Some of my faves from this era

A vs B - Ripped in 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqdZnrn3PxY

G.O.D. (aka Jeremy Sylvester) - Watch ya bass bins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3pte3uJJCQ

Groove in motion - Electric runnings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1pNkMRtky0

Just 4 U London - ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cee2QBShiQA

GI Sly - Da scientist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H8fKpyu0qA

DC Sensation - Lets get it on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajaMhpIrzy8

Groove Connection 2 - Club Lonely
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZmShjnI31w

Benny B
08-02-2017, 07:14 PM
That playlist I linked before was from Niche - did speed garage carry on in the midlands/north, ultimately to evolve into bassline/jackin?

This Rinse FM special show by Tom Shorterz/Cause and Affect is probably the best Speed Garage set I've ever heard. They are true speed garage scholars, just look at this tracklist :fire::fire::fire:

https://soundcloud.com/tom-shorterz/rinse-fm-podcast-tom-shorterz

1. Smile Orange ‎– More Than A Million
2. Double 99 - Jump Jump (R.I.P Productions)
3. 8th Wonder Featuring DJ Marco V. & Benjamin ‎– Deeper
4. Dangerous Dubz Vol 2 - Don't Hold Back (Jeremy Sylvester)
5. Sly - Badbwoy (Slippin EP)
6. Northbank - Musik
7. G.O.D 4 - Watch Ya Bass Bins
8. Debbie Malone vs The Billionaire Boys - Rescue Me
9. Sub Kutz - It's The way
10. Tail Spin - All Massive
11. KCC + Ty Holden ‎– International Soundbwoy Pt2
12. The Inside (Sol Bros Mash Up Dub By Sol Brothers)
13. Rhythm Construction EP (White Label)
14. Nu-Vybez ‎– Ultra-Funkula
15. R.I.P Productions - Buggsy's theme
16. Roc Steady - Don't Make Me Wait
17. New Horizons – Scrap Iron Dubz
18. System X - Red Or Blue
19. G.O.D - Unlimited (Toxic Dub)
20. Lisa Stansfield - the Line (Loop Da Loop)
21. A Questions 4 You - Bonus Bass
22. R.I.P - Work It Out
23. Ultimate Seduction - A Nightmare Walking
24. Volcano & Tee - No Gal Tune

craner
08-02-2017, 07:21 PM
Thought you were going to set up a UKG poll, Benny.

craner
08-02-2017, 07:24 PM
One of the things I loved about this era was the sheer dizzy weirdness and joy of seeing names like Lisa Stansfield popping up in hardcore underground London mixes. Remember that Bette Midler remix all the garage heads loved? Bette Midler!

craner
08-02-2017, 07:26 PM
https://youtu.be/4QJujgSEmCw

MK remix. Now he's turned out to be a real survivor, hasn't he?

Benny B
08-02-2017, 07:34 PM
Ah so that was MK? Wow

Just found this bootleg of that same riddim with a Fonda Rae vocal, even better!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ldz_88OH7o

PiLhead
08-02-2017, 07:46 PM
I think speed garage might be the ultimate music for dancing, for me - it keeps the vibe and the itchy-percussive / texture-y elements of jungle (oh and the monster bass too). But it injects all of that into the slinky grooves and sultry feverishness of house

And the pace of speed garage is just right

2step is gorgeous but it's actually a bit slow - you have to be a really good dancer to be adequate to its rhythmic demands

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 07:51 PM
Thought you were going to set up a UKG poll, Benny.

I'd be happy to organise a garage poll if enough of you want to do it. Just let me know if you can.

craner
08-02-2017, 08:18 PM
The link between speed garage and bassline is interesting and reminds me a bit of Northern Soul - Northerners keeping faith with the uptempo bits of the original sound, but extenuating and exaggerating it. Although, of course, the NS djs did this with old records, while the bassline crowd created their own new sound (while the Southerners did their own thing with rare groove and garage rap/grime).

Never really developed a taste for bassline, myself, or grime. I got stuck in the dying days of UKG in the summer of 2001. Talking of which, these two videos offer an interesting comparison:

https://youtu.be/Axo6oZSpPxs

Scott Garcia banger, from the early, humble days.

https://youtu.be/dpx7IWPda8A

DJ Pied Piper chart buster from the twilight days, almost like a eulogy for UKG after the London sound had sweeped Britain and was about to be eclipsed by So Solid and then, terminally, grime.

craner
08-02-2017, 08:37 PM
I love the Pied Piper tune, btw. I find it almost unbearably poignant, now. It feels like the last fun, carefree summer we ever had.

craner
08-02-2017, 08:47 PM
Everyone talks about the Junglist elements of Speed Garage, correctly, but you can't neglect the huge influence of Todd Edwards. The sweet, chopped-up vocal, synthetic soul element was a major ingredient from the very beginning, and was probably the main thing that fed into the 2-step and 'UKG' chartbusting styles that came out of it.

Benny B
08-02-2017, 09:41 PM
Everyone talks about the Junglist elements of Speed Garage, correctly, but you can't neglect the huge influence of Todd Edwards. The sweet, chopped-up vocal, synthetic soul element was a major ingredient from the very beginning, and was probably the main thing that fed into the 2-step and 'UKG' chartbusting styles that came out of it.

Yeah u cant deny the US influence. Ukg wouldnt have existed if not for todd, armand van helden and stuff on strictly rhythm like logic 'blues for you' and harddrive 'deep inside'.

PiLhead
08-02-2017, 09:53 PM
Armand was the man for a moment there


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqfIvPQ8Dgo

PiLhead
08-02-2017, 09:56 PM
Sticking with the sugar theme, another AvH monster although not quite as immense as "Spin Spin" (seem to remember once listening to the Sneaker Pimps original and it was so nothing by comparison)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEqb3oFfylk

Then there's "Professional Widow" remix....

PiLhead
08-02-2017, 09:57 PM
He's actually a little bit like a real-world Ali G - tries a bit too hard, to be hard.

PiLhead
08-02-2017, 10:02 PM
UKG that's very close to USG. Speed garage that isn't that speedy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiXdKVitp6o

Things you learn! When you check discogs, that is. Half of Smokin Beats = Neil Rumney. Neil Rumney = NRG, as in "I Need Your Lovin'" and "He Never Lost His Hardcore".

And they say there's no such thing as...

PiLhead
08-02-2017, 10:10 PM
Loved this for years, never realised it was Van Helden on the mix, AGAIN


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4Z6t2gU0xw

The breakdown at 3 mins is sensational and then when the bendy rubber-bandy bass sets off again.....

luka
08-02-2017, 10:48 PM
Just as an aside that nuyorican soul album was a lowpoint of the lateish '90s

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 10:50 PM
https://youtu.be/cnh09zQDcxs

luka
08-02-2017, 10:55 PM
Just as an aside that nuyorican soul album was a lowpoint of the lateish '90s

Self congratulatory. It disgusts me.

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 10:58 PM
Take me up

https://youtu.be/vd98MlA5tQI

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 11:00 PM
hold up your hands if you a ganja man

https://youtu.be/n3nRXpZyZzs

sadmanbarty
08-02-2017, 11:12 PM
https://youtu.be/btr4Ba5HPhY

PiLhead
08-02-2017, 11:14 PM
Just as an aside that nuyorican soul album was a lowpoint of the lateish '90s

you're right there. but armand makes silk purse out of a sow's arse!

yes the Nuyorican name was so tainted i would never heard that rmx at all if not on one of the first speed garage comps

luka
08-02-2017, 11:20 PM
He does. Like you say original spin sounds sugar not up to much. Even the name sneaker pimps let's yiu know nothing good is gunna out of that

craner
08-02-2017, 11:30 PM
https://youtu.be/GYvWk_9jzxA

LOL. I read somewhere that Armand was a frustrated jungle producer who couldn't get a look in with the London mafia, which is how he invented speed garage.

I mean, he has as a good a claim as anyone. Probably the best.

But, ultimately, Todd E won the day.

And it's irrelevant anyway, because the sound and energy of London town made this.

CrowleyHead
09-02-2017, 03:56 AM
You people really comparing Armand and Todd like there's some sort of competition, they're two different fields. Armand is Todd Terry's spiritual son, Edwards wants to be Dope & Vega.

Also Luka "Build A Wall" with his anti-Hispanic bias! And people pretending anyone in the US cares about Jungle! YOU'RE NOT SLICK!

luka
09-02-2017, 08:58 AM
:D

Benny B
09-02-2017, 09:03 AM
This blogs got loads of old articles from mixmag and the like, makes interesting reading https://realspeedgarageblog.wordpress.com

Definitely think that, aside from the jungly basslines and samples, the long breakdowns were one of the main elements that made speed garage stand out from us house (and the 2step that came after it largely).

luka
09-02-2017, 09:13 AM
This blogs got loads of old articles from mixmag and the like, makes interesting reading https://realspeedgarageblog.wordpress.com

Definitely think that, aside from the jungly basslines and samples, the long breakdowns were one of the main elements that made speed garage stand out from us house (and the 2step that came after it largely).

Wow at this opinion

There are a few weak exceptions, where the music is already starting to gnaw off its own good foot, most notably Roy Davis Jr.’s abysmal “Gabrielle”–somebody should do the world a favor and salvage the horn riff right now

Benny B
09-02-2017, 09:24 AM
The link between speed garage and bassline is interesting and reminds me a bit of Northern Soul - Northerners keeping faith with the uptempo bits of the original sound, but extenuating and exaggerating it. Although, of course, the NS djs did this with old records, while the bassline crowd created their own new sound (while the Southerners did their own thing with rare groove and garage rap/grime).

.

This is a great mix for those wanting to fill in the gaps in the, largely forgotten and undocumented, northern nuum history from speed garage to jackin. You probably won't recognise hardly any of the names and tunes here, I know i didn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqr2jqsQx28

01. Fatima Rainey – Hey (Mount Rushmore’s Deep Vocal Mix)
02. Ladycop – To Be Real
03. Mass Medium – Got To Have It
04. Roger Ruff – Do Ya (Great Bass Mix)
05. DJ Pooch – Let The Bass Roll (Funky Mix)
06. Nu Force – When The Morning Comes (DJ Flavours Club mix)
07. Gordon Matthews – Itza Trumpet Thing
08. Robin S – Midnight (Ultimix 68)
09. Sara Parker – My Love Is Deep (Sharp Vocal Mix)
10. Silvio Ecomo – Uprising (Speed Garage Mix)
11. EEDB Vs Flirtations – Time (TnG Mix)
12. Funk Junkeez – Got Funk (Heavy On Da Bass Mix)
13. The ‘701’ Track
14. Agro DJ’s – Run To Me
15. Clubbit – All I Wanna Do
16. Celetia- Rewind (Rob Bee RMX)
17. GB Experience – Gimmie The Bass
18. Jonestown – Sweet Thang (Mustard Mix)
19. B15 Project & Mr Vegas – Birmingham Crew
20. 99 Allstars – Chemical Generation (Upstate J60 Vocal Experience)
21. Twin Town – Rock It
22. Twin Town – Risin’
23. Philly Station ft. Tammi Wright – Mon Supa Love (Agent Sumo RMX)
24. Ruff Driverz – Deeper Love (Ruff Mix)
25. Summer Junkies - Hey Y’all
26. Devoted - Gotta Have (Antoine & Mad Mark RMX)
27. Miss Peppermint – Let Me Hear The DJ
28. 2 Eivissa – Move Your Body
29. Fake – Outstanding (Perqx Disco Mix)
30. Luthor Vandross – Never Too Much (RMX)
31. Summer Junkies – Basslines Live Forever

https://soundcloud.com/hannah_wants/roots

sadmanbarty
09-02-2017, 09:26 AM
Armand doing jungle in 1996:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNoareaNZus

Benny B
09-02-2017, 09:28 AM
Wow at this opinion

yeah thats...puzzling. Seems like it was quite a bitchy scene, a lot of haters and (futile) attempts at gatekeeping going on.

luka
09-02-2017, 09:49 AM
yeah thats...puzzling. Seems like it was quite a bitchy scene, a lot of haters and (futile) attempts at gatekeeping going on.

That opinion is from an American I love music contributior

Corpsey
09-02-2017, 09:56 AM
ILM LOL

I was interested to see what Luka would say about this stuff, cos I remember him/you saying you hated how 'beery' jungle got. To me this speed garage stuff is the jump up jungle of garage. (And Bassline is the jump up DNB I guess!)

muser
09-02-2017, 11:09 AM
not sure if this is 4x4 or speed garage ? I think everyone loves speed garage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5FpzZQj4og

Corpsey
09-02-2017, 11:33 AM
Steve Gurley remix of Operator and Baffled



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA8CjDLeyro

Surely this is more 2 step? Doesn't sound like RIP Groove and all that to me.

luka
09-02-2017, 11:42 AM
ILM LOL

I was interested to see what Luka would say about this stuff, cos I remember him/you saying you hated how 'beery' jungle got. To me this speed garage stuff is the jump up jungle of garage. (And Bassline is the jump up DNB I guess!)

A lot of my friends got into garage in 96 (not this stuff though) I wasn't that into it till two step tbh. Sounds better to me now than it did then. Seemed a bit moronic at the time.

Benny B
09-02-2017, 11:52 AM
That opinion is from an American I love music contributior

ah right its Matos. I don't think he's been on ILM for many years though.

I haven't heard that particular compilation but, with a few exceptions, I'm not really the biggest Tuff Jam fan tbh. I can sorta see why he was a bit underwhelmed in that review and prefers the rowdier stuff like Ripgroove and what have you. Gabrielle is all time though.

Benny B
09-02-2017, 11:55 AM
ILM LOL

I was interested to see what Luka would say about this stuff, cos I remember him/you saying you hated how 'beery' jungle got. To me this speed garage stuff is the jump up jungle of garage. (And Bassline is the jump up DNB I guess!)

If there has to be a 'jump up jungle of garage', I'd say it would be the later breakbeat garage stuff like Zinc.

Corpsey
09-02-2017, 11:59 AM
I prefer reading an opinion like that (re gabrielle) actually, makes a difference from the norm.

Think the first time I heard gabrielle was in an EZ set and it stuck out for being so quiet and mellow. I can relate to how that might make it sound a bit limp, particularly surrounded by Tuff Jam tunes.

sadmanbarty
09-02-2017, 12:08 PM
Given that Gabrielle doesn't have a kick on the 2 and 4, I'd argue it's the first 2step track.

Benny B
09-02-2017, 12:25 PM
Given that Gabrielle doesn't have a kick on the 2 and 4, I'd argue it's the first 2step track.

according to discogs Tina Moore - Never Gonna Let You Go (Kelly G Bump-N-Go Mix) came out in 1995, Gabrielle in 1996.

Kind of interesting that the Americans didn't really pick up on 2step, given that they invented it

Corpsey
09-02-2017, 12:31 PM
Further complicating things, Pulp Fiction came out in 1995 also https://www.discogs.com/Alex-Reece-Pulp-Fiction-Chill-Pill/release/5549

sadmanbarty
09-02-2017, 12:36 PM
according to discogs Tina Moore - Never Gonna Let You Go (Kelly G Bump-N-Go Mix) came out in 1995, Gabrielle in 1996.

Kind of interesting that the Americans didn't really pick up on 2step, given that they invented it

Are you sure? Seems like the original is from 1995 and the remix from 1997:

https://www.discogs.com/Tina-Moore-Never-Gonna-Let-You-Go/release/3143744

https://www.discogs.com/Tina-Moore-Never-Gonna-Let-You-Go/release/1197826

Amazing if you're right though.

Benny B
09-02-2017, 12:38 PM
Are you sure? Seems like the original is from 1995 and the remix from 1997:

https://www.discogs.com/Tina-Moore-Never-Gonna-Let-You-Go/release/3143744

https://www.discogs.com/Tina-Moore-Never-Gonna-Let-You-Go/release/1197826

Amazing if you're right though.


US release, on the B side

https://www.discogs.com/es/Tina-Moore-Never-Gonna-Let-You-Go-The-Hurley-Dance-Mixes/release/232701

guess it took a little while to get picked up on in the UK

sadmanbarty
09-02-2017, 12:39 PM
Further complicating things, Pulp Fiction came out in 1995 also https://www.discogs.com/Alex-Reece-Pulp-Fiction-Chill-Pill/release/5549

Wasn't the term 'two step' actually used in drum and bass before the genre 2 step even existed?

Corpsey
09-02-2017, 12:42 PM
I dunno how often these things really are 'invented' by one producer, wouldn't be surprised if loads of people have the same idea at the same time and its just one tune gets released first...

In any case, the the 2-step beat is just sped up hip-hop beat (which ofc was based on samples of funk/soul)

Maybe there's something interesting to be said re: this vs. the disco beat found in most house music.

sadmanbarty
09-02-2017, 12:52 PM
In any case, the the 2-step beat is just sped up hip-hop beat (which ofc was based on samples of funk/soul)

I think the hi hat emphasis on the off beat in 2step comes from house and wouldn't be found in hip hop. A of the syncopation and intricacy of the rhythms wouldn't have been found in hip hop until timbaland

droid
09-02-2017, 02:18 PM
Wasn't the term 'two step' actually used in drum and bass before the genre 2 step even existed?

Not sure if it was before 2-step garage, but 2-step was used to denote the early NUT/Emotif, Pulp fiction rhythm before 'techstep' was coined. 95/96.