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luka
04-10-2017, 08:50 AM
my list will be a nostaligic trawl through foundational formative musical expereinces and will be posted and edited here in installments

luka
04-10-2017, 09:03 AM
prehistory

what i rememeber most was the cassetes my dad would play in the car. he only had a small collection and the car would regularly get broken into and whatever tapes were there would get taken. he always replaced his best of sam cooke. sam cooke the man and his music. it had a picture on the front of sam smiling and looking so impossibly handsome. https://lastfm-img2.akamaized.net/i/u/300x300/b5b4ac4b3d424fdaf592a2bc6c31eef7.jpg
so relaxed and at ease in his own skin. as close to a god as a man can get. and his voice used to thrill me like none other, as a very young boy, and probably feeling more romantic and more in love with the idea of love than i ever would again. it was really this cassete tht unlocked the gate of those feelings and incohate yearnings. on the backseat and swooning with the window a screen and the world scrolling by. the grey crash barriers. the sickly trees. the soot stained brick and the graffiti in white block letters, applied with a paintbrush. the political struggles of the '70s and '80s. G. Davis is innocent. Free Nelson Mandela. that London, as a set of tones and textures and a scale that is now being superceded never to return. how empty it still was.
the song titles are still so overwhelmingly evocative for me. i hear the song start just by reading those titles and the whole complex of sweet sad emotion that is attatched to them. the christian mystery of hem of his garment, the first song, which is, the account of a miracle, he makes christ present, the scene, the time, the beleif and the wanting to beleive of the petitioner, you're there, right there in the bible
She stood there cryin' "Oh Lord" (Oh Lord)
"Oh Lord" and "Oh Lord" (Oh Lord)
"Oh Lord" (Oh Lord)
And "Oh Lord" (Oh Lord)
Said "if I could just touch the hem of your garment
I know I'll be made whole right now"
nothing else has ever made christianity seem so pure, so untainted, it's that tapping into the root of yearning-
the very centre of need- of being incomplete- torn from the mother and wailing, breathless with fearful sobbing, seperated from womb dark or the circuit of mouth and breast broken and all alone, the need which is the primal need and underpins all wanting, if i could be made whole right now....
but there's something that renders that very incompleteness erotic, voluptuous, we wallow in that lack, enjoying its presence, and enjoying the imagination of its cessation, fulfilment, and his whole body of work is suffused with that, and that's why he's a truly great artist and saint, one of the great geniuses of music. it goes like this
1 Touch The Hem Of His Garment
2 That's Heaven To Me
3 I'll Come Running Back To You
4 You Send Me
5 Win Your Love For Me
6 Just For You
7 Chain Gang
8 When A Boy Falls In Love
9 Only Sixteen
10 Wonderful World
11 Cupid
12 Nothing Can Change This Love
13 Rome Wasn't Built In A Day
14 Love Will Find A Way
15 Everybody Loves To Cha Cha Cha
16 Another Saturday Night
17 Meet Me At Mary's Place
18 Having A Party
19 Good Times
20 Twistin' The Night Away
21 Shake
22 Somebody Have Mercy
23 Sad Mood
24 Ain't That Good News
25 Bring It On Home To Me
26 Soothe Me
27 That's Where It's At
28 A Change Is Gonna Come

even a song called 'having a party' can make me cry. "I'm having such a good time
dancing with my baby" the sadness at the core of that. "here they have a lot of fun/putting trouble on the run" to quote from 'twistin' the night away' to tear a space for pleasure from brutal time, to wrench it from history, and doubly, to have faith, the faith of hem of his garment, the faith of a change is gonna come, that history will be redeemed.to beleive in the goodness of love and music and dancing, to affirm and preach the goodness of those things, and the emotions, the direct primary colours of living. anything less is not quite enough, is not saintly, is a fall. so this is really the beginning and the benchmark and everything i aspire to in life, its the gospel for me. this is what it means to be an ascended master.


astral weeks

this is the other cassette that made a huge impression on me. i don't like any of his other albums. they aren't magical. this is magical. it occupies a completely diferent place to sam cooke. this is the mystic. this is other pole of my spiritual life, the other tent pole, and the canvas stretched between the two. sam cooke is in the world van morrison is in the mystic, just for the duration of this one album, somehow he gets there. water everywhere, the river and the mists, and the water reeds, and the wind in those. the swirls and eddies, the rising and the ebbing and the flowing of water, to aspire to the ineffable. these are the things which teach you to live. to say, this exists- you can go here. "to be born again, in another world, in another time... i'm nothing but a stranger in this world" it sends shivers up my spine. and to know, really know, that this is true- that there is a part of us that is not of this world, and that music can sketch the contours of those other places, so that we remember.
I don't listen to either of these albums much. i don't want them to lose the connection to my childhood and i don't want them to lose the connection to my dad, who died 5 years ago. they're like sacred artifacts kept under wraps except for special ceremonies when the veil is lifted and theyre brought out in the light of the tabernacle.
i didn't understand his voice, i mean, i didnt know where it came from. it's not embodied. "wrapped up in your magic shroud as ecstacy surrounds you/this time i'ts found you" i knew sam cooke was a black american, from a particular time and place, warmly, urbanely human. this voice, i could barely even gender, but i knew what it aspired to and what it was invoking.

luka
04-10-2017, 09:03 AM
first steps

woolworths rap compilations volumes 1 and 2

i'm roughly the same age as hip-hop. it was the first thing, culturally, i was aware of. in the sense of recognising an electricity in the air. to see this current energise people, to pick them up and fill them with its energy so that they are transformed by it, to see that power at work within the wider culture. it would of been around me, as a child, i would have heard it in the streets, but it's really covent garden i remember most. the chrome angelz had painted there and of course the b-boys were there. one guy would put a skateboard helmet on and spin on his head. him and his partner dancing there. i remember one day me and my friend jonathan, his mum took us there for the day and we spent the whole day volunteering again and again and again. just wanting to dance and dance again with them. not willing to leave or let anyone else have a turn. the music, i can't remember but it's obvious what it would have been. i know it was my introduction to the future of synthetic sound. men, muscular, atheltic and graceful, dancing like robots to robot music and knowing, this is the most vital force in the world today.
i must have done some kind of job for my parents and got given some small a mount of money in exchange, and i walked into stratford shopping centre, to the woolworths there, knowing nothing, and got, first one, and then, a week or two weeks later, the other, of these compilations. i can't work out what they were, other than that there must have been a music of life connection. i just have my memories. it was mostly uk artists like cookie crew, demon boyz, mc duke, overlord x, she rockers, and derek b. i knew all all the lyrics to derek b's get down.
"got back to her place in a flash real quickly/she knelt on the floor began to unzip me/two big things like basketballs/down below was like niagra falls/we kept on going for hours and hours/straigh after that to the bathroom for a shower/just before leaving she held me close and said/"I think you're the greatest thing in bed"'
the other songs i really loved were asher d and daddy freddy-raggamuffin hip-hop and demon boyz-northside plus only buggin' by u.s. act whistle, which introduced me to and intoxicated me with 'vocal science' for the first time.
this time really set up a lot of my pavlovian responses in that sense i guess. like the 808 for instance and how i still cant resist it. there's something so vital about it, an ur sound, and it's the beginning of my engagement with that particular and peculiar specfically english MC tradition.

dave angel? on pirate radio

i didn't know anything as a kid. i was, still am to a large degree, in a bubble. so massively radically introverted that the outside world barely existed and only made an impression if it resonated and was transformed in 'the crucible of my soul' and music was really one if the only things that crossed over that boundary and made itself present for me. the other kids i grew up around always seemed, always were, more worldly, more plugged in. their parents were 10 years younger, they had big brothers and sisters and whole networks of uncles, aunts, family friends and cousins that introduced them to things. for me everything existed as rumour, clues gleaned from overheard conversations. well around 88'/'89 when i was coming to the end of my time in junior school i became aware of a new cultural current, something strange and secret and cultish, not public in the way hip-hop had been, not played out in the streets. the cool kids in school were wearing white t-shirts with huge white or acid green or neon pink smiley faces on them, they were wearing wallabies or kickers and screaming aceeeid in the classroom and in the playground. I heard them talking about these huge parties, bacchanal, delerious.... i heard them talking about sunrise and centreforce which, it turns out, was broadcast from just down the road at bow flyover. i didn't know what the music sounded like, but i did... when i fiddled with the tuner on my dads radio, sticky with kitchen grease, crackling with static, i knew it as soon as i heard it. i can't remember what station i found, and in truth i can;t remember the dj though my head says it was dave angel, but i do remember it introduced me to a whole new feeling complex, that it evoked and invoked no other music ever had. this was something truly alien, part of no human inheritance, something wholly new, something which repelled and seduced at once, as all truly strange and previously unencountered things do, cold, anorganic, and yet, the rumours of this music had already opened this space up in imaginative anticpaction. acid.
a huge moment as my first real encounter with both pirate radio and the birth of the uk dance counterculture.

Corpsey
04-10-2017, 11:36 AM
I'd like to respond in more detail when I'm at leisure to, but I love this list already. If I had a family, we'd sit around the fire reading each subsequent installment like the Victorians read David Copperfield. (Incidentally, idea for parody trump autobiography title 'Donny Coppafeel'. Park that.)

sadmanbarty
04-10-2017, 12:03 PM
305

luka
04-10-2017, 12:13 PM
lol

Corpsey
04-10-2017, 12:20 PM
The Sam Cooke album isn't on Spotify but someone's made a playlist of it: https://open.spotify.com/user/terrance403/playlist/2rhbBmzHpN6I9AI8AQvm0Y

luka
04-10-2017, 01:43 PM
pulse fm

what does it mean to imagine the alien? how do we create our own future? how does the truly novel come to be? i remember in this period how quaintly retro hip-hop seemed to me. how the future seemed to be wholly invested in hardcore.
nothing could be better for a childs development than hardcore. its crude intensities are made for a childs sensibility. music as pure rush, as sensation, the equivalent of supersour fizzy sweets or red hot gobstoppers. i knew this music was about drugs. designed to simulate and intensify the experience of drugs. but i had never had drugs. so i was in a similiar position to hearing sam cooke sing about love and desire and feeling my heart swell and ache in response as a pre-pubertal boy. how do these precursors to 'the real thing' act? they are like the tibetan book of the dead. they map and guide you through an experience and an initiation you have yet to undergo, they are pre-echoes of events on your own horizon.
but is it possible that the imagined experience is more intense, more real, more vital than the lived expereince? is it the lived experience that is mere shadow?
is mdma as fun as hardcore makes it sound? 9 times out of 10 i'd say not even close.

craner
04-10-2017, 02:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctahDiJ7Fcw

mistersloane
05-10-2017, 12:38 AM
first steps

woolworths rap compilations volumes 1 and 2

i'm roughly the same age as hip-hop. it was the first thing, culturally, i was aware of. in the sense of recognising an electricity in the air. to see this current energise people, to pick them up and fill them with its energy so that they are transformed by it, to see that power at work within the wider culture. it would of been around me, as a child, i would have heard it in the streets, but it's really covent garden i remember most. the chrome angelz had painted there and of course the b-boys were there. one guy would put a skateboard helmet on and spin on his head. him and his partner dancing there. i remember one day me and my friend jonathan, his mum took us there for the day and we spent the whole day volunteering again and again and again. just wanting to dance and dance again with them. not willing to leave or let anyone else have a turn. the music, i can't remember but it's obvious what it would have been. i know it was my introduction to the future of synthetic sound. men, muscular, atheltic and graceful, dancing like robots to robot music and knowing, this is the most vital force in the world today.
i must have done some kind of job for my parents and got given some small a mount of money in exchange, and i walked into stratford shopping centre, to the woolworths there, knowing nothing, and got, first one, and then, a week or two weeks later, the other, of these compilations. i can't work out what they were, other than that there must have been a music of life connection. i just have my memories. it was mostly uk artists like cookie crew, demon boyz, mc duke, overlord x, she rockers, and derek b. i knew all all the lyrics to derek b's get down.
"got back to her place in a flash real quickly/she knelt on the floor began to unzip me/two big things like basketballs/down below was like niagra falls/we kept on going for hours and hours/straigh after that to the bathroom for a shower/just before leaving she held me close and said/"I think you're the greatest thing in bed"'
the other songs i really loved were asher d and daddy freddy-raggamuffin hip-hop and demon boyz-northside plus only buggin' by u.s. act whistle, which introduced me to and intoxicated me with 'vocal science' for the first time.
this time really set up a lot of my pavlovian responses in that sense i guess. like the 808 for instance and how i still cant resist it. there's something so vital about it, an ur sound, and it's the beginning of my engagement with that particular and peculiar specfically english MC tradition.

dave angel? on pirate radio

i didn't know anything as a kid. i was, still am to a large degree, in a bubble. so massively radically introverted that the outside world barely existed and only made an impression if it resonated and was transformed in 'the crucible of my soul' and music was really one if the only things that crossed over that boundary and made itself present for me. the other kids i grew up around always seemed, always were, more worldly, more plugged in. their parents were 10 years younger, they had big brothers and sisters and whole networks of uncles, aunts, family friends and cousins that introduced them to things. for me everything existed as rumour, clues gleaned from overheard conversations. well around 88'/'89 when i was coming to the end of my time in junior school i became aware of a new cultural current, something strange and secret and cultish, not public in the way hip-hop had been, not played out in the streets. the cool kids in school were wearing white t-shirts with huge white or acid green or neon pink smiley faces on them, they were wearing wallabies or kickers and screaming aceeeid in the classroom and in the playground. I heard them talking about these huge parties, bacchanal, delerious.... i heard them talking about sunrise and centreforce which, it turns out, was broadcast from just down the road at bow flyover. i didn't know what the music sounded like, but i did... when i fiddled with the tuner on my dads radio, sticky with kitchen grease, crackling with static, i knew it as soon as i heard it. i can't remember what station i found, and in truth i can;t remember the dj though my head says it was dave angel, but i do remember it introduced me to a whole new feeling complex, that it evoked and invoked no other music ever had. this was something truly alien, part of no human inheritance, something wholly new, something which repelled and seduced at once, as all truly strange and previously unencountered things do, cold, anorganic, and yet, the rumours of this music had already opened this space up in imaginative anticpaction. acid.
a huge moment as my first real encounter with both pirate radio and the birth of the uk dance counterculture.

Was it this one? https://www.discogs.com/Various-Hard-As-Hell-Raps-Next-Generation/release/1632263

luka
05-10-2017, 06:27 AM
think it must have been thanks jim volumes one and two with the sinom harris megamixes at the end. i remembered the cover art being cooler than that but it must have been that cos all the songs are the same!

luka
05-10-2017, 03:01 PM
kool fm 94.5

I've got really a deep reluctance, horror of, writing about this becuase it is no longer a live and partisan issue. the energy has fizzled out, dissipated entirely. we're now all middle aged. can i really, would i really write about it? it's all been talked to death. we won all the arguments.

there's two angles of approach,interelated, to jungle that i personally would be interested in seeing fleshed out and i don't consider myself suitable for either job. the first, to which the second is inextricably linked, is as jungle as a kind of culminating chapter in a particular, accelerated, history. the history that is, of west indian immigration to the uk. in the same way i was interested, very early on, in grime as an early chapter in the story of african immigration to the uk. as a visible, audible, conversation between immigrant community and host nation, as a site of tension and attraction, syncretism and so on and so forth.
the other angle, is something i've been gesturing towards from the beginning really, and that's the specific history of the mc in the uk and other people have kind of picked up on this over the years so it doesn't seem nearly as pressing as it once did. everyone now knows of unity sound for instance. everyone now knows about fast chat. these are things which have become common knowledge and are appreciated. kool fm was really defined by and set apart by the mcs. really you were listening to kool for navigator, 5-o, remedee, ragga twins, etc etc and that was really becasue of thir link to unity and the sound system tradition and an earlier phase of that history of west indian immigration.

but anyway, that's that. as a kid i used to tape kool every weekend, super sunday, all that. my most treasured posession, and the only tape i still have from the pirates pre-grime, is the nye 93 into 94 night on kool when i was sick and in bed listening. they drop we are ie at midnight. the whole thing is beautiful so full of love and grace and togetherness. the sense of mission and momentum is palpable, electric. and of course the whole thing was over a year or two later. dead in the water. finished.

it's the evangelical sense of mission and destiny that really made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. 5-O was the man who really embodied that more than any other. he had a presence and a sense of beleif that was so powerful and you did feel you were part of a communion, 13, 14 years old at this point, sanyo radio, bedroom, romford road below, the 25 bus going back and forth between oxford circus and ilford... but all that was a long time ago now.

luka
05-10-2017, 03:09 PM
ive mentioned this before i know but i found simon reynolds, '98 or '99, just by googling for jungle mcs. there was nothing. no conversation. not a single scrap of chatter on a forum, nothing. i knew there were other fans cos these guys were all famous, in their way, but online, invisible. the only thing i found was a piece by simon, on his old website, pre blog, about pirate radio in the hardcore days that was so brilliant that i don't see any need to write anything that overlaps with that piece at all. i'd just be repeating what hes already said. i can't find that piece now but it must still be floating about. if i find it i'll quote from it.
this was a time when all these arguments were still live, and these were still partisan issues. reynolds fought for hardcore and for jungle and garage and grime when respectable opinion was still turning its nose up. seems unbeleivebale now in a time of diplos stripmining local 'urban' scenes but that's how it was.

luka
05-10-2017, 03:40 PM
(as an aside there is a tendency to privilege 'authentic' reggae in these discussions and undervalue 'plastic' r&b. but hopefully that is starting to change)

luka
06-10-2017, 06:06 PM
that terrible sickening fact the internet made inescapable-that there are millions of you. born in the same instant of time subject to the same forces moulded by the same formative experiences formulating the same jokes at the same moment

luka
06-10-2017, 06:07 PM
so that youre left to argue over the order in which the top three albums in your wu tang list fall
3/liquid swords
2/enter
1/cuban linx

luka
06-10-2017, 06:39 PM
which is why id be interested, more interested in younger peoples lists, before the canon starts to ossify

trilliam
06-10-2017, 10:48 PM
I'll never have enough clout on here to do something as informative yet self indulgent as this so I'm just gonna hate from the sidelines cheers

PiLhead
06-10-2017, 11:00 PM
re. MCs and lack of discussion thereof:

The thing I've found over the years is that a surprising number of people who are otherwise totally down with the whole jungle / drum & bass program, it seems they don't actually like the MC element at all. They find MCs to be an annoyance.

You also get people who come up with a lot of interesting perceptions about and fantastic imagery evoking the music - Mark Fisher and Kodwo Eshun spring to mind - but who never once mention the MC side of things in their writings about jungle / 2step / etc.

Maybe because the MC element is just too insistently "actual human beings involved in this" - so it interferes with a way of responding to the music in terms of cinematic images running across your mindscreen of a dark dystopian cyber-future nature

which is definitely one truth of the music

just not the whole truth

luka
06-10-2017, 11:00 PM
i think youre wrong about that tbh

luka
07-10-2017, 02:10 PM
anyway this new emollient personna is making me nervous when you going back to smh?

luka
11-10-2017, 06:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it1RNMv2dxM

luka
11-10-2017, 06:45 PM
re. MCs and lack of discussion thereof:

The thing I've found over the years is that a surprising number of people who are otherwise totally down with the whole jungle / drum & bass program, it seems they don't actually like the MC element at all. They find MCs to be an annoyance.

You also get people who come up with a lot of interesting perceptions about and fantastic imagery evoking the music - Mark Fisher and Kodwo Eshun spring to mind - but who never once mention the MC side of things in their writings about jungle / 2step / etc.

Maybe because the MC element is just too insistently "actual human beings involved in this" - so it interferes with a way of responding to the music in terms of cinematic images running across your mindscreen of a dark dystopian cyber-future nature

which is definitely one truth of the music

just not the whole truth

yeah it ruins the neuromancer zion fantasies abit doesnt it

luka
11-10-2017, 06:51 PM
1 King Tubby -- Zion Gate Dub 3:15 2 King Tubby & Augustus Pablo -- King Tubby's Borderline Dub 3:07 3 Lee Perry -- Venus 3:28 4 King Tubby -- Money Dub 3:00 5 Lee Perry -- Lee Perry Upsetting Dub 4:00 6 King Jammy -- Slow Motion Dub 3:12 7 King Jammy -- Black & White Dub 3:02 8 King Tubby -- The Battle Axe Dub 3:26 9 King Jammy -- Dub It In The Dancehall Dub 3:14 10 King Tubby -- Fittest Of The Fittest Dub 4:10 11 Scientist -- Rasta Dub It Everywhere 3:00 12 King Tubby -- Dark Destroyer Dub 3:00 13 King Jammy -- Jump Song Dub 2:41 14 Sly & Robbie -- Hypocrite Dub 3:41 15 Lee Perry -- Lee Perry Special Dub 3:39 16 King Tubby -- Rock With I Dub 3:56 17 King Tubby -- Fat Man Dub 3:26 18 Lee Perry -- Hold Of Death 3:03 19 King Tubby & Augustus Pablo -- King Tubby's Rock On Time Dub 3:24 20 Lee Perry -- Black Street 3:25 21 Sly & Robbie -- Burial Dub 4:22 22 Lee Perry -- Lee Perry Guiding Star Dub 3:30 23 King Tubby -- Dawn Dub 2:27

i picked this cheap music club compilation up cos i knew i was supposed to like dub. this would have been about 1996 maybe? or maybe later '98 even? i was too dumb to get dub though until i took the tape to amsterdam. came back to the hotel room. put this on the headphones.
drugs are vital for listening imo. there's no point, unless you're in a very emotionally volatile state, listening to music straight. its boring and pointless and you miss everything. i smoked so much weed in my life it stopped working but back in these days it was my best friend.

luka
11-10-2017, 06:53 PM
anyway great budget label music club. had a few of their bits and always very well curated.

luka
11-10-2017, 07:00 PM
very important in terms of saying 'you're a terrible listener. terrible at paying attention. you miss everything. snatch at things.' weed combined with this album. very important in making me realise how im not a music guy and i dont understand anything unless i make myself temporarily more intelligent with drugs. that's an ongoing theme in my musical history.

Corpsey
11-10-2017, 07:12 PM
I definitely feel that way about weed, and I feel somehow guilty or inadequate because of this, but should I? Shouldn't I be able to appreciate the sensory arts (e.g. painting, sculpture, music) without narcotic enhancement?

Well, of course I DO. But it's just better when I'm stoned. This is more the case with visual art, though.

And arguably with dub/reggae it is actually necessary to be stoned to understand it.

In any case, returns us to Blake/Huxley and the 'doors of perception'.

luka
11-10-2017, 07:14 PM
it's inherently fascinating but also frustrating. becasue you cant really be high every day. or you can but there are rapidly diminishing returns and you will end up depressed and lost.

Leo
11-10-2017, 07:17 PM
begs the question: can weed or other drugs make lousy music sound interesting? they provide a gateway into higher levels of appreciation, make good music sound amazing, etc.. but can they make a listener fond of any old crap?

luka
11-10-2017, 07:23 PM
begs the question: can weed or other drugs make lousy music sound interesting? they provide a gateway into higher levels of appreciation, make good music sound amazing, etc.. but can they make a listener fond of any old crap?

ime absolutely not. they magnify the banality of bad music.

luka
11-10-2017, 07:24 PM
or even the horror of it. i remember my first experience on acid hearing vengaboys and it sounded like marching music for nazi youth

mistersloane
12-10-2017, 05:32 PM
or even the horror of it. i remember my first experience on acid hearing vengaboys and it sounded like marching music for nazi youth

Some people though, it's so amazing, the experience, that they associate any music they hear with it, they associate that with what they're feeling. Could be anything. I know nuff people who are reasonable intelligent people but associate good music with their adolescence and jacking up speed and hearing The Fall.

See also Sleaford Mods.

luka
12-10-2017, 05:38 PM
yeah thats pavlov stuff tho

PiLhead
12-10-2017, 07:26 PM
ime absolutely not. they magnify the banality of bad music.

that's what i've always found

nothing like as much of a psychonaut as luka, but i do remember one time on acid listening to Slowdive followed by Hendrix

now I like Slowdive... pleasant as far as it goes

but Slowdive was all shades of pale pastel colours - a palette of pinky-greys... their limitations, timbrally, were synaesthetically exposed


and then Hendrix (i can't remember which - probably 'Third Stone from the Sun' or '1983 A Merman) was the veritable explosion of colours - like Peter Cook as the Devil describing God in Bedazzled, "many-hued". his vast superiority (not a revelation or surprise, of course) was brutally underlined


another instance of the same gulf was the acid-enhanced contrast of Ozric Tentacles and Can's Soon Over Babaluma (Ozrics not my idea i hasten to add, my friend had that tape!)

drugs just expose the shortcomings of musical things ... you just are truly profoundly bored

Corpsey
12-10-2017, 07:29 PM
I think weed makes anything more interesting, even if it's an interest in how shit it is. I don't think any music that you enjoy is bad per se, but the degree to which you enjoy it marks out the better/best stuff and, as Pilhead says, leaves the less good/worst stuff sounding comparatively dull.

Corpsey
12-10-2017, 07:32 PM
I'm uncomfortable with my own relativist position, ofc. Can it be said that the vengaboys aren't shit? Perhaps if the vengaboys was the only music on earth - then it would be good, miraculous even. But you could be listening to Sam Cooke or something.

luka
13-10-2017, 12:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zbi0XmGtMw

sadmanbarty
13-10-2017, 12:58 AM
That took me back. I presume everyone feels the same way about the music from their childhood, but I'm convinced that 1999-2001 was the best era in terms of pop-for-pop's-sake; spice girls, s club, all those guy chamber's robbie songs, britney spears, etc.

sadmanbarty
22-10-2017, 12:13 PM
oi luka, where's the next instalment?

luka
22-10-2017, 09:49 PM
ok i'll do three more within the next 7 days

droid
22-10-2017, 10:48 PM
ime absolutely not. they magnify the banality of bad music.

Then how do you explain trance? The vast majority of dance music is execrable and people still like it and its primarily because of drugs.

luka
22-10-2017, 10:50 PM
how do you explain anything? people are weird. youve taken drugs. did you start liking trance?

droid
22-10-2017, 11:19 PM
Drug/brain/music interaction is a reflection of the listeners personality, experience & perception. Trance/EDM/Big Beat/Rave etc. capitalise on unsophisticated lowest common denominator physical and neurological drug effects,which is why so many people get sucked into the rush. So for many people, awful music sounds better on drugs, in fact the music often has no other function than to elicit these responses.

craner
22-10-2017, 11:50 PM
Also some music can sound at its best when stone cold sober if your emotions are primed to meet it.

craner
22-10-2017, 11:51 PM
Drugs + or x music is a narrow sum.

Not dismissing it at all, but it's not the whole equation.

luka
23-10-2017, 11:31 AM
yeah i was exaggerating. emotions can do the same job which is why the chemical/emotional upheaval of adolescence sets most peoples tastes in stone

john eden
23-10-2017, 12:14 PM
I have met some people who like trance who don't do drugs. (As in, they have never done drugs, not that they have given up and are now into yoga etc).

I think they like the adrenaline rush of it - good for keep fit or driving or whatever.

Hyperactive kids can get quite into it too.

Corpsey
23-10-2017, 12:19 PM
Trance/EDM/Big Beat/Rave etc. capitalise on unsophisticated lowest common denominator physical and neurological drug effects,which is why so many people get sucked into the rush. So for many people, awful music sounds better on drugs, in fact the music often has no other function than to elicit these responses.

Did people not say the same about hardcore, and presumably jungle?

Edit: Ah, you did say rave.

john eden
23-10-2017, 12:25 PM
re. MCs and lack of discussion thereof:

The thing I've found over the years is that a surprising number of people who are otherwise totally down with the whole jungle / drum & bass program, it seems they don't actually like the MC element at all. They find MCs to be an annoyance.

You also get people who come up with a lot of interesting perceptions about and fantastic imagery evoking the music - Mark Fisher and Kodwo Eshun spring to mind - but who never once mention the MC side of things in their writings about jungle / 2step / etc.

Maybe because the MC element is just too insistently "actual human beings involved in this" - so it interferes with a way of responding to the music in terms of cinematic images running across your mindscreen of a dark dystopian cyber-future nature

which is definitely one truth of the music

just not the whole truth

With all credit to Mark and Kodwo I did get the impression that their take on jungle was based on theorising around the records in their bedrooms more than listening to pirates or going raving.

john eden
23-10-2017, 12:27 PM
Full disclosure: There was a fairly horrible period in my life in the mid 90s when a bunch of people I knew when raving every weekend to Goa Trance things. Return to the Source and Escape From Samsara at the Brixton Fridge especially.

I tagged along for a good while, but in my defence I had just split up with my significant partner of the time and just wanted to get completely out of it.

My mates ended up being quite intolerant of any other kind of music (like jungle) and descended into a hellish existence of clubbing Friday night to Sunday morning, recovery, back to work Monday-Friday with gym in the evenings. Needless to say this wasn't for me. It was fun for a while but ended up being a peculiarly narrow way of life given all the imagery about consciousness expansion, exotic cultures etc.

luka
23-10-2017, 12:29 PM
you have to admire the stamina though. i never had that bloody mindedness.

john eden
23-10-2017, 12:32 PM
you have to admire the stamina though. i never had that bloody mindedness.

Oh completely. A grudging admiration from someone who is obsessed with music myself. But think it did become pavlovian - snare rolls for the endorphine rush. I think being distracted by other things is much healthier...

droid
23-10-2017, 01:37 PM
Did people not say the same about hardcore, and presumably jungle?

Edit: Ah, you did say rave.

Jungle, techno, the deeper end of house have more sophisticated mechanisms, more subtle moods and textures, a different approach to tension and release.

Corpsey
23-10-2017, 02:23 PM
It's funny, some part of me rebels against the idea that there is 'good' and 'bad' music, and yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h37KQu64RY4

Is subtlety and sophistication the hallmark of good music?

I thought instantly of this as a possible counterpoint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bMQTU2iI1E

But even this has a degree of sophistication in its rhythms - just enough, perhaps? A lot of ppl probably thought (and still think) this is absolute shite, 'my toddler could make that', etc.

droid
23-10-2017, 02:31 PM
Im thinking in terms of dynamics as opposed to musical sophistication.

droid
23-10-2017, 03:42 PM
Full disclosure: There was a fairly horrible period in my life in the mid 90s when a bunch of people I knew when raving every weekend to Goa Trance things. Return to the Source and Escape From Samsara at the Brixton Fridge especially.

I tagged along for a good while, but in my defence I had just split up with my significant partner of the time and just wanted to get completely out of it.

My mates ended up being quite intolerant of any other kind of music (like jungle) and descended into a hellish existence of clubbing Friday night to Sunday morning, recovery, back to work Monday-Friday with gym in the evenings. Needless to say this wasn't for me. It was fun for a while but ended up being a peculiarly narrow way of life given all the imagery about consciousness expansion, exotic cultures etc.

First big beat, now this. Your well of shame is as deep as you are tall.

sufi
23-10-2017, 04:01 PM
I was working at the bar in the fridge during those dire seasons
Fridays at Return to the Source and Escape From Satsuma were the penalty, the massive thrashing gay nights on Saturdays (iirc) were the perk

john eden
23-10-2017, 04:34 PM
First big beat, now this. Your well of shame is as deep as you are tall.

I blame Howard Jones.

Oh and you forgot Marillion. :D

Everything I go to now is achingly credible, but it's fun to look back on a misspent youth.

john eden
23-10-2017, 04:36 PM
I was working at the bar in the fridge during those dire seasons
Fridays at Return to the Source and Escape From Satsuma were the penalty, the massive thrashing gay nights on Saturdays (iirc) were the perk

I don't remember people going to the bar much. It would be good to hear more about your experiences, soof.

martin
23-10-2017, 10:48 PM
Everything I go to now is achingly credible

310

Leo
24-10-2017, 08:51 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/music/ng-interactive/2017/oct/24/from-arsedestroyer-to-zoogz-rift-50-underground-albums-youve-never-even-heard-of

looks fairly interesting, tbh. i've heard only two: Soichi Terada and World Domination Enterprises.

luka
24-10-2017, 09:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbyuB8H54Og

this one i know cos my mate put it on his classic slow motion euphoria mix

luka
24-10-2017, 09:41 PM
tracklist

Throbbing Gristle Walkabout
Malcolm McLaren Legba
Nova Terranova
Harold Grosskopf Emphasis
Severed Heads We Have Come To Bless This House
Conrad Schnitzler Ballet Statique
JSR Astronomicum
Bill Nelson Connie Buys A Kodak
Bu Bu Sex Echoes & Trance
Psychic TV The Orchids
David Earle Johnson & Jan Hammer Juice Harp
JSR Mirage
Oppenheimer Analysis New Mexico
Love International Airport Of Love
Blancmange Sad Day

Corpsey
24-10-2017, 09:45 PM
You should do a mix luka. Like an hour long. If not ten.

Dunno the best way to do it but I'm sure someone will know how to do it on here

luka
24-10-2017, 09:48 PM
my mate lee will help me eventually. ach! hes the man for the job.

luka
24-10-2017, 09:48 PM
that mix is incredible though. i'll see if i can find it anywhere. youd love it corpsey

luka
24-10-2017, 09:50 PM
https://www.mixcloud.com/WillClarke/slow-motion-euphoria-volume-1/
bingo

Corpsey
24-10-2017, 09:55 PM
what time of day/state of mind is this for

luka
24-10-2017, 10:00 PM
any state of mind except getting lagered up ready for another big night out which will end in the usual squalid disappointment and self-recriminations

Corpsey
24-10-2017, 10:08 PM
SOLD!

(Big nights are a foreign country, they do things differently there)

luka
24-10-2017, 10:09 PM
let me know what you think.

Corpsey
26-10-2017, 12:15 PM
Forgot about this, I'll listen today