PDA

View Full Version : Atlanta Rap 2014-2016



Pages : [1] 2

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 01:52 AM
Was it innovative? If so what was innovative about it? If not, what were the precedents for it?

Was it paradigm shifty?

Was it a golden age of rap comparable to the mid-90's? Did it in any ways exceed the mid-90's?

What were some of the best choons to come out of it?

(Not strictly Atlanta by the way)

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 02:36 AM
a big shift has been this turn to fragmentary flows comprising of quick bursts of staccato triplets being broken up with lots of interjecting ad-libs. like people trying to make 'hold on se22 mix)' with their voices alone; it's the same sort of effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDYEOmYPtkA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQd-oFbTylc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeyfOEb7ET0

doesn't account for young thug though, he doesn't do much of this.

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 02:43 AM
the chrosu on this reminds me of hold on too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxO9i3EFQts

CORP$EY
27-02-2018, 08:47 AM
shutting my self up here EDIT

CORP$EY
27-02-2018, 09:28 AM
i am interested in exploring the idea (half-baked, if that) that Atlanta has become as stultifying a hub of influence on rap as new york once was

but i suspect i'm just sick of hearing 'skrt skrt' adlibs

and sick of life, in fact

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 09:52 AM
it's not a novel opinion but i do think that the reverence of the past is what's holding back la and new york. think about yg following up krazy life with a g-funk throwback album. gs9 were the closest i think of reconciling the past with something more contemporary. you can tell it's new york without being nostalgic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJwKKKd2ZYE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ5mTGDjeeY

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 10:15 AM
on the other hand you could argue desiigner copying the atlanta sound and being succesful doing so hindered a proper new york sound emerging.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgw2s3o8ptw

luka
27-02-2018, 10:24 AM
being honest

Was it innovative? If so what was innovative about it? If not, what were the precedents for it?
no

Was it paradigm shifty?
no

Was it a golden age of rap comparable to the mid-90's? Did it in any ways exceed the mid-90's?
no. no.

What were some of the best choons to come out of it?
nothing.

but that's based on studiously avoiding listening to any of it.

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 10:25 AM
young thug?

luka
27-02-2018, 10:35 AM
i thought you said he doesnt fit into your thesis? can you answer your own questions please? it's like when corpsey posted that weird Scientology quiz, got everyone to answer but didnt answer himself like a shifty pervert.

luka
27-02-2018, 10:37 AM
also what's the timeline. how does it play out chronologically? who did what first?

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 10:39 AM
i'll answer the questions once it gets going a bit otherwise i'm the internet equivalent of a bloke on a park bench with fingerless sipping cheap booze out a black plastic bag and talking to himself.

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 10:41 AM
i thought you said he doesnt fit into your thesis?

not so much into that specific rhythmic thing i was talking about (though he does it a little bit every now and then), but he's my favourite artist from this era.

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 10:44 AM
also what's the timeline. how does it play out chronologically? who did what first?

migos popularised the triplets, future popularised the non-melodic auto-tune, arguably chief keef was the one who started making rap increasingly ad-lib centric and young thug and richie homie quan doing weird things with phonetics.

luka
27-02-2018, 10:45 AM
none of us have ever heard this music tho lol is john eden going to have an opinion on this? is leo? what about mr tea?
what does craner think of atlanta rap post 2014?
http://pitfall.unbelievabullbulldogs.com/the-sires/

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 10:45 AM
they all intersected and culminated in atlanta in the last few years, with different artists being defined how they balance those different elements, how much they have of each.

luka
27-02-2018, 10:46 AM
just post the whole thesis in one virtuoso unveiling and we'll all stand back, mouths gaping in awe and admiration and you will colect the plaudits.

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 10:48 AM
none of us have ever heard this music tho lol is john eden going to have an opinion on this? is leo? what about mr tea?
what does craner think of atlanta rap post 2014?


the whole point of you young people is you have to explain this stuff to us so we feel in touch. can you play your part please and we can tell you stories about going to a garage rave in 1998 or something.

,

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 11:03 AM
oi luke tell us why young thug's so good ideally using the phrase 'fixed schemes'.

luka
27-02-2018, 11:17 AM
i did this already lol

luka
27-02-2018, 11:22 AM
you know how every badly written article on jungle has the word 'frenetic' in it so that the whole genre is linked with that adjective, (2-step=slinky) for me this stuff is 'annoying'

(this is my favourite passage ever of bad writing about jungle)


To my shame, I missed the beginning of jungle. I knew about it, and my old schoolmates were all over it, but getting it blasted on the crap stereos of their mumsí cars and on Dave from Romfordís tiny tape player, all I heard was a chaos of clatter and gunshots and distorted MCs and stop-start mixing. Yes, I realise that sounds great on paper, but compared to the by-now predictable solidity of house, techno and hardcore, it just seemed like a mess, and a scary one at that. I hadnít been to the right events, and Brighton didnít have any at that stage. Itís weird because a lot of my absolute favourite, played-to-death records were what you might call mutant breakbeat hardcore Ė Holy Ghost Inc., Friends Lovers & Family, Earth Leakage Trip, A Guy Called Geraldís Juicebox tracks Ė only a whisker away from ďrealĒ jungle but the real stuff remained just beyond my levels of comprehension.

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 11:27 AM
i guess i'll just have to take solace in the fact that at some point reynolds is going to be sitting in his pants, listening to suzi quatro, eating a bowl of cereal and nodding in agreement with me as he skims this thread on his ipad.

Corpsey
27-02-2018, 11:31 AM
I'm interested in knowing why Atlanta rap is the way it is - why it isn't like New York, e.g. Not knowing the first thing about the city makes that difficult. Reminds me of the convo we had on here recently about how Brits can't really understand US rap cos it's so far removed from us. (Esp white middle class Brits like me)

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2017/03/15/520133445/culture-wars-trap-innovation-atlanta-hip-hop

trilliam
27-02-2018, 11:40 AM
three words

skippa da flippa

luka
27-02-2018, 11:40 AM
i did this already lol

i did this already lol

From I think for me describing young thug as an autotune artist is just wrongheaded and unfair. It's not a part.of the aesthetic in any meaningful way and neglects all the stylistic choices and tics which make him interesting.

It's the way he interacts with the beat which is important not the (imagined) textural/timbral quality of autotune

It's timing. It's the suppleness of the line. It's the hanging back and then sprinting to catch up. It's the variations in tone, pitch and volume, it's the (precise to the point of prissiness)
placing of syllables, the open unfixed cadence, the micro hooks littered across every song- lines so rhymically satisfying that they act as stand alone hooks (eg this that, rich shit, I eat fish and grits in dream from barter 6 or, from the blanguage, I'm chilling at the studio these bitchs wanna fuck on the banana boat)

It's the swooning abandoned-to-bliss tone he can reach, gurgling bliss which is unique in rap as far as I know (pelican flys oh gawd oh gawd oh gawd is an example for you)

Plus ad libs, melody , use of negative space blah blah nlah

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=13508&page=10&highlight=pelican

where were you in 2015?

luka
27-02-2018, 11:40 AM
crowley will be here later to do his thing about the rich kidz

luka
27-02-2018, 11:41 AM
that guy still mourning an atlanta future which never transpired.

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 11:45 AM
where were you in 2015?

thinking rubbish internet rap was the best thing since the resection of christ

luka
27-02-2018, 11:45 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5W73HaVQBg

luka
27-02-2018, 11:47 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5W73HaVQBg

not that i rate the song or the video with comedy Sikh dancing in mustard velours.

luka
27-02-2018, 11:58 AM
barty dont get despondent enthusiasm is infectious. sometimes all it takes to 'get' music is another persons enthusiasm for it. as a listener you need to keep changing the angle of approach with music. different perspectives till you find the one which reveals the centre. tuning the dial till you get a good reception.

sadmanbarty
27-02-2018, 12:07 PM
don't worry handsome, i'll keep flying the flag. i'm the last champion of futurism in the western hemisphere. i'm the john connor of dissensus.

luka
27-02-2018, 12:08 PM
just dont want to see you downhearted. keep the faith.

luka
27-02-2018, 12:09 PM
can you post few of the best songs of the golden era 2014-now. the real pinnacles of perfection.

luka
27-02-2018, 12:23 PM
what were the precedents for it?

e-40. the bay.

blissblogger
27-02-2018, 03:50 PM
is there an official name for that thing where there's the main vocal and then behind it this constant backing vocal commentary of ad libs and nonverbal sounds - strangled rasps, Tourettic growls and chokes, whoops etc

that's an invention of the modern era you're talking about isn't it?

who did it first? Migos?

i concede that it might be verging on over-used at this point - like an Amen break circa February 1995 - but for now, for just little bit longer, i still love it, can't get enough of it


(in my jim jams but yet to pour a bowl of cereal)

crimedawgbylaw
27-02-2018, 04:13 PM
I would say that a lot of the successful rappers and styles of Atlanta Rap 2014-2016 (Young Thug, in particular) can be traced back to the 'futuristic swag' movement of the late 2000s (Yung LA, D4L, Travis Porter, Rich Kidz). That's why Young Thug feels like Fabo. He builds on that stupid, fruity, futuristic style synonymous with unhinged personality and unbridled creativity. Young Thug is from outer space and, of course, Future is the astronaut.

CORP$EY
27-02-2018, 04:32 PM
is there an official name for that thing where there's the main vocal and then behind it this constant backing vocal commentary of ad libs and nonverbal sounds - strangled rasps, Tourettic growls and chokes, whoops etc

that's an invention of the modern era you're talking about isn't it?

who did it first? Migos?


I'd just call these 'ad libs' - no idea who ramped them up to this level (maybe they became more of a calling card in the mixtape era? Jeezy's 'Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhs', Waka's 'BOW! BOW!'s, Gucci's 'Ayeeeyyyyyahhs', Rick Ross's WOOFs etc.?) - but Migos's drive me nuts... (Thinking now of Master P's 'UNNNNNNNNNNGH's)

I wonder if Noreaga's Superthug was a watershed moment in terms of screaming the same word again and again and again? Also his innovation of rhyming precisely the same words ('my pops just died' e.g.)

And Playboi Carti might be the first rapper who could be more accurately called an adlibber

version
27-02-2018, 06:01 PM
is there an official name for that thing where there's the main vocal and then behind it this constant backing vocal commentary of ad libs and nonverbal sounds - strangled rasps, Tourettic growls and chokes, whoops etc

that's an invention of the modern era you're talking about isn't it?

who did it first? Migos?

Keef's coughing springs to mind.

luka
27-02-2018, 11:21 PM
I would say that a lot of the successful rappers and styles of Atlanta Rap 2014-2016 (Young Thug, in particular) can be traced back to the 'futuristic swag' movement of the late 2000s (Yung LA, D4L, Travis Porter, Rich Kidz). That's why Young Thug feels like Fabo. He builds on that stupid, fruity, futuristic style synonymous with unhinged personality and unbridled creativity. Young Thug is from outer space and, of course, Future is the astronaut.

yeah youre stepping on crowleys toes now cos this has been his hobby horse for years.

luka
27-02-2018, 11:24 PM
have to talk about jeezy if youre tracing the rise of the ad lib. he actually mentioned them by name in a song thereby drawing attention to their existence (theyve always been there obviously)

CrowleyHead
28-02-2018, 12:16 AM
Was it innovative? If so what was innovative about it? If not, what were the precedents for it?

Was it paradigm shifty?

Was it a golden age of rap comparable to the mid-90's? Did it in any ways exceed the mid-90's?

What were some of the best choons to come out of it?

(Not strictly Atlanta by the way)

2014-2016 was when the creativity DIED.

CrowleyHead
28-02-2018, 12:16 AM
Also crimedawg knows he's been following me for years.

CrowleyHead
28-02-2018, 12:30 AM
Honestly before we get too far the links between Desiigner and Atlanta are drastically over-emphasized. Like yes, he's vaguely influenced by things Future and Thug do but he's also not at the same time.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vk6BVZ-ijy0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You listen to this and ask yourself... how does he sound like an Atlanta rapper? He doesn't. He sounds like a kid who listened to Meek Mill's double-time and who does v. standard BK Punchline Rap a la Uncle Murda (which Bobby sounded like on most of his tunes)

Which, speaking of

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BqB7PhInGYc" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I went on a tangent that Luka saw earlier in the week where I was v. obsessed with how rap writers/bloggers afficianado don't talk about how things in the scene are influencing others, it just gets very territorial over some arguable Major Force Of The Scene getting ripped off by lessers like no, Future is obviously a bigger rapper than Desiigner, there's no point in worrying about how Future affects Desiigner. Nobody cries about how Bryson Tiller affects Drake.

For Simon since he's lurking, and the older rockists, it'd be like crying about OH THAT NASTY KILLING JOKE IS RIPPING OFF JOY DIVISION. Joy Division were (and are) more important and successful like... who's threatened?

luka
28-02-2018, 10:54 AM
2014-2016 was when the creativity DIED.

oooh barty are you guna take that? defend your thesis! quickly listen to some -Yung LA, D4L, Travis Porter, Rich Kidz- on youtube so you can confidently dismiss them out of hand.

sadmanbarty
28-02-2018, 10:56 AM
I can, with great confidence, dismiss the collective works of Yung LA, D4L, Travis Porter, Rich Kidz.

sadmanbarty
28-02-2018, 11:01 AM
can someone post some stuff tracks that show the 'futuristic swag' artists were making the real innovations?

luka
28-02-2018, 11:03 AM
yeah do and can you post the artistic peaks of 2014-16 but not young thug or future

luka
28-02-2018, 11:07 AM
Rae Sremmurd sound a bit like Rich Kidz. i hate the name travis so ive always made sure not to listen to music by anyone called travis.

CORP$EY
28-02-2018, 11:13 AM
I loved this travis porter mixtape https://mixtapemonkey.com/1611/travis-porter-saq

luka
28-02-2018, 11:24 AM
can you make us one of those youtube playlists barty and crowley and then we'll vote on which one is the most paradigm shifty

sadmanbarty
28-02-2018, 11:25 AM
yeah do and can you post the artistic peaks of 2014-16 but not young thug or future

when i've finished work i'll make a playlist of my favourites and stuff i think's innovative. includig thug and future thiugh, you can't take the biggest weapons out of my arsenal just when i'm about to make my last stand agaisnt the stampeding hoards.

luka
28-02-2018, 11:27 AM
ok. fair enugh. im not working today. its snowing. taking it easy. corspey what is your opinion on this? offer a firm assertive opinion.

luka
28-02-2018, 11:28 AM
my opinion. 'futuristic swag' - annoying

2014-16 - annoying

sadmanbarty
28-02-2018, 11:31 AM
that dosn't necessarily mean it's not innovative

luka
28-02-2018, 11:34 AM
course not. not enough talk about violence though. at least london rap keeps violent content alive and well.

luka
28-02-2018, 11:35 AM
the samurai code of honour and extreme physical retribution. last bastion of manhood.

luka
28-02-2018, 11:45 AM
how can you practice extreme violence when youre a dribbling opiate addict? pissing your pants in a xanax coma.

luka
28-02-2018, 11:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksR-GxxUtM8

luka
28-02-2018, 11:49 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-55ChAUCpY

CORP$EY
28-02-2018, 12:05 PM
I think the two best producers in rap ATM are Atlanta producers - Metro Boomin and MikeWillMadeIt (although Metro was born and raised in Missouri and MWMI was from outside Atlanta, though from Georgia). The connection between these two (not to mention Southside/Luger et al) is Brick Squad - OJ and Gucci Mane. Interestingly, looked up Luger and he's from Virginia, and Zaytoven was born in Hamburg, moved to San Francisco, but came through in a big way working with Gucci in Atlanta - I suppose Atlanta must be a magnet for producers and rappers - and Wiki confirms my vague suspicion that it's a magnet for black americans generally:

WIKI: 'Atlanta has long been known as a center of black wealth, political power and culture; a cradle of the Civil Rights Movement[1] and home to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. It has often been called a "black mecca".'

Also useful is the Wiki on Atlanta hip hop

In 2009 the New York Times noted that after 2000, Atlanta moved "from the margins to becoming hip-hop's center of gravity, part of a larger shift in hip-hop innovation to the South." Atlanta hip-hopís pop breakthroughóeveryone from Jermaine Dupri to OutKast to Lil Jonóinvolved the blend of various distillations of hard-core sounds from the West, bass beats from Florida, and styles and images from the North.[8] Producer Drumma Boy called Atlanta "the melting pot of the South". Producer Fatboi called the Roland TR-808 ("808") synthesizer "central" to Atlanta music's versatility, used for snap, crunk, trap, and pop rap styles.[1] The same article named Fatboi, Shawty Redd and Zaytoven the four "hottest producers driving the city".

Didn't even think about how Lil Jon was from Atlanta...

I would guess that this melting pot cosmpolitanism partly explains why you get characters like Andre 3000 coming out of Atlanta, and why Atlanta seems to be at the forefront of this dyed-dreadlock generation of flamboyantly dressed rappers. (Young Thug as an Atlantan spin on Lil Wayne.)

CORP$EY
28-02-2018, 12:09 PM
Actually Florida seems connected with all this swag/soundcloud rap stuff, and I have seen comments from yanks online suggesting that Florida is known as being a particularly extreme/crazy state.

Note on the wiki the early connections between Atlanta and Miami (the prevalence of bass in production etc.)

CORP$EY
28-02-2018, 12:12 PM
I wonder if the shift of dominance in rap from New York to Atlanta might be partially explained by this 'mecca' aspect and New York's enforced gentrification?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans_in_New_York_City

In a news item of April 3, 2006, however, the New York Times noted that for the first time since the American Civil War, the recorded African American population was declining, because of emigration to other regions, a declining African American birthrate in New York, and decreased immigration of blacks from the Caribbean and Africa.[2]

PROBABLY NOT, but my half-baked theory has diverted me from work for five minutes so there's that in its favour

luka
28-02-2018, 12:15 PM
the atlanta thing happened early. i remember reading an article in the source or vibe about it. phife dawg had just moved there which i think was the excuse for the piece.
you had laface records early on. just a shift in the centre of gravity.

luka
28-02-2018, 12:16 PM
and youre probably right that economic factors played a part just as milton keynes hosts quite a few big company headquarters.

CORP$EY
28-02-2018, 12:24 PM
it is bizarre, really, when i consider how abstract all these cities are to me

new york is either a 90s rap video or a postcard

atlanta isn't even somewhere i can PICTURE

LA - the wealthy hollywood hills of curb your enthusiasm, high schools where skateboarders jump down stairsets, compton, crenshaw boulevard... a collection of cliches

luka
28-02-2018, 12:24 PM
i just looked it up and phife it seems moved to atlanta in '94 so even by then you had talk of a powershift.

luka
28-02-2018, 12:25 PM
it is bizarre, really, when i consider how abstract all these cities are to me

new york is either a 90s rap video or a postcard

atlanta isn't even somewhere i can PICTURE

did you not watch those vice videos? for all their flaws (like getting rappers arrested or whatever, fairly serious flaws) they did give you a sense of the city, how it works etc. why it occupies the position it does just in very real geographic terms

CORP$EY
28-02-2018, 12:27 PM
edit: I was wary of watching those VICE videos cos I heard they were basically poverty porn for hipsters

Skim-read a lonnnng profile of Donald Glover (Childish Gambino) in the NYer just a few days ago. (His TV show is set in and called 'Atlanta'.)


They started talking about trap music, a poundingly kinetic form of Atlanta rap that originated in the crack-and-weed dens known as trap houses. “The rhythm of it is interesting,” Beetz said, “but I feel abandoned by the lyrics. Rhyming ‘blunt’ with ‘blunt’ with ‘blunt’—”

“It’s music for making drugs by,” Glover explained, his brow furrowing. He lost his virginity to a trap song, and one of his goals for “Atlanta” is to make the show feel as vital as the music that constitutes half its soundtrack.

Cornelius said, “I agree with her, though. You want some more metaphorical language, like Jay-Z.”

“Jay-Z be saying the same shit, too!” Glover said. “O.K., take ‘The Race,’ by Tay-K. Play that fuck right now, if you got it.” As Cornelius searched Spotify, Glover explained, “Tay-K was sixteen and on the run for murder when he made this song. It’s a real Jesse James story.” He pulled up Tay-K’s photo on his phone as “The Race” began to boom. Glover said, “Look at this kid! He’s a baby! He never had a chance! Y’all are forgetting what rap is. Rap is ‘I don’t care what you think in society, wagging your finger at me for calling women “bitches”—when, for you to have two cars, I have to live in the projects.’ ”

“That makes me think differently about it,” Beetz said.

Glover stared off. “Young black kid in Texas with a murder on him,” he said, finally. “He’s definitely going to die, and it’s sad.”

luka
28-02-2018, 12:28 PM
talking about road and rail infrastructure and atlanta as a hub meaning drugs always go through there by necessity.
explaining the different sections, lots of cul-de-sacs, big wide roads. it's not remotely urban in the way we would think of it. it's completely sub-urban. very spread out. quite desolate in a sundrenched way.

luka
28-02-2018, 12:31 PM
perhaps it's poverty porn but equally who else is going out there to tell the story? who else thinks the story is even worth telling?
fine if there's a more serious minded, less lurid documentary to watch but if there's not, and you want to learn something, you'll probably have to watch the vice one! or go to atlanta.

CORP$EY
28-02-2018, 12:34 PM
good points, well made - i'll watch it, then

i liked the one they did about road rap presented by mike skinner - had some great poverty porn in it

CrowleyHead
28-02-2018, 10:06 PM
There are books but is Corpse gonna buy a book? (I kid, though seriously Roni Sarig's "Third Coast" was legitimately great at breaking down regions and moments effortlessly. History, background culture, rap scenes. It follows Outkast as the Big Narrative which ofc it might but it still works well enough at explaining the details, biased as it might be)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5yGlYNqfPU4" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/k-03G_LndVI" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5iP4twL_N9c" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YXJZBdy_yNk" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/B0WDQCry_G8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Barty is Very Familiar to me. They're the same kid, they've gotten ahold of Heavy Mental and they think this is the brilliant break through moment of rap. Don't even know about Sir IBU or Doug E. Fresh, can't handle it. I've had friends who didn't get Young Thug until 1017 Thug, said the rapper who sang "GET THAT HOE RIGHT GET HER HOOKED ON POWDER, WATCH HER SNORT HER LIFE AWAY TILL SHE DON'T KNOW VOWELS" was 'too happy'. And its in those early tapes you not only see the very formation of his ideas but understand the lineage he comes out of through his contemporaries.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9atks2_m7Pg" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8AsTOX8nZWw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eUHf3PbQy2g" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

sadmanbarty
28-02-2018, 10:14 PM
thanks for that, haven't listened yet. i'll clean the kitche, have a listen then either concede you're right or right something pedentic and overly technical with lots of links.

luka
28-02-2018, 10:15 PM
CORPSEY DO THE MODAL JAZZ JOKE NOW

sadmanbarty
28-02-2018, 10:16 PM
it's you're last chance corpse!!!

luka
28-02-2018, 11:18 PM
barty has lost heart. so i'll quickly review these tunes.

im da man-annoying
aint gon let up-best song ever
teabag that hoe-annoying
what up with the pussy-annoying
hands on deck-sounds like one of those things where a rapper (or his management) thinks hes creative or something and wants to prove it by getting some british laptop nerd to produce his album and it turns into a dogs dinner and everyone involved tries to forget it ever happend.
rich kidz-i quite liked this lot. remind me of pretty ricky.

luka
28-02-2018, 11:20 PM
can i see the clear line of evolution from this to migos et al. not really tbh. would need the dots joined up for me by an expert.

sadmanbarty
28-02-2018, 11:21 PM
still here cheeky. my sister came up, so had a chat with her for a bit. kitchen's almost done.

luka
28-02-2018, 11:35 PM
still here cheeky. my sister came up, so had a chat with her for a bit. kitchen's almost done.

it's the new crowley's lunch.

sadmanbarty
28-02-2018, 11:38 PM
done. because it's a special post i'm going to write it on a word document before posting it. i will take an embarrassingly long time to write something that 3 people will skim, but nonetheless i will do it.

luka
28-02-2018, 11:39 PM
its what makes a man a man.

luka
28-02-2018, 11:39 PM
it's what seperates us from the cud chewers, the bovine herd, the bleating emasculated flock.

blissblogger
28-02-2018, 11:55 PM
Atlanta's a car city like LA

very new-built, huge skyscrapers, freeways, exits, sprawling suburbia, really hot

like LA, in many ways, but they say the vibe is completely Southern - less cosmopolitan

(i went there in the 80s for very brief visit - didn't get much of a sense of the Southernness - but did feel the size of the place, and encountered heat like i'd never experienced before)

but i think the car thing is a big part of the sound - if i was living in NYC or London i don't think i'd be able to hear it fully

this easy rolling flow of the beats and the voices - and the sound kinda oozes out of the speakers and fills up the sound-space of the car

driving at night especially it sounds amazing, like you're in this little cocoon of futurity - especially if you have a dashboard that's got the glittering multi-colored ever-shifting display of fuel consumption, diagrams of the engine, etc

sadmanbarty
28-02-2018, 11:56 PM
This is only going to be about the vocals, Iím not even touching on the instrumentals.

There are a number of factors that define the sound of Atlanta in the last few years; rapping in triplets, fragmented flows (quick bursts of single clauses, rhythmically disconnected from one another), the emphasis of ad-libs (particularly in how they interject in between the fragmented flows), explorative and contrasting vocal timbres, to a lesser extent playing around with pitch (using it in neither a melodic nor conversational way) and the non-melodic use of auto-tune (this is arguably the least significant and most precedented component, but it does offer something when combined with the other components).

Being generous you could argue that some of the tracks Crowley posted every now and then somewhat incorporated some of the techniques Iím talking about, but theyíre not doing so to any significant degree, nor are they using multiple of these techniques simultaneously in the way the post-2014 stuff is.

Iíll give Luka this for his bed time and by the time he takes up I will have posted some examples to explain what I'm on about.

CORP$EY
01-03-2018, 08:47 AM
was the migos flow sui generis when they came out, then?

i remember they were considered a novelty act at the time of 'versace' and you couldn't have told anyone they'd be one of the biggest rap acts in the world in 2018

https://youtu.be/3la8bsi4P-c

(Not watched this video)

comment from Reddit re: this video


Side note: The disappointing part of this video for me is that another "historian" credits the triplet flow to Three 6 Mafia and Bone Thugs-N-Harmony while completely ignoring that Freestyle Fellowship was flipping that style in the mid 80's.

luka
01-03-2018, 08:51 AM
droid posted that video last time we were trying to discuss this stuff. i didnt watch it either lol

luka
01-03-2018, 09:06 AM
whats your favourite atlanta rap corpsey?

CORP$EY
01-03-2018, 09:44 AM
all the boring predictable answers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQEXOFIWOxE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoXRsuefSuU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28_0er6e82c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPbzMMorE_E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGt_JGHYEO4

luka
01-03-2018, 09:49 AM
remember noz doing that big thing (with downloads) on raheem the dream? you couldnt listen to it other than as historical research (quaint) but it was interesting.

luka
01-03-2018, 09:50 AM
you dont like outkast really corpse?

CORP$EY
01-03-2018, 09:52 AM
Good point - they've never really clicked for me

I don't dislike them or think they're overrated I just have never been particularly hooked by them

luka
01-03-2018, 09:56 AM
that's how i have them situated in my mind although i owned all their albums except the last one and when i look back there's lots of songs i like. something weirdly ugly and clumsy about andre, something unsatisfying about how he does it that always stopped me really loving them.

CORP$EY
01-03-2018, 10:07 AM
people absolutely revere them don't they perhaps that's a stumbling point for me

obviously in school days 'ms jackson', 'hey ya'... etc. were massive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c15QgtYqknA

still love this one

but in terms of their more straight rap stuff ('aquenimi' 'atliens') i'm an ignoramus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB3yWDQivHc

CORP$EY
01-03-2018, 10:08 AM
same goes for Goodie Mob actually, and other Dungeon Family stuff

CORP$EY
01-03-2018, 10:09 AM
There are books but is Corpse gonna buy a book? (I kid, though seriously Roni Sarig's "Third Coast" was legitimately great at breaking down regions and moments effortlessly. History, background culture, rap scenes. It follows Outkast as the Big Narrative which ofc it might but it still works well enough at explaining the details, biased as it might be)

Heyyy I might actually buy this

A nice break from torturing myself with the western canon

luka
01-03-2018, 10:09 AM
i was the first kid i knew to have the first outkast album. got it when it came out. make sure they put that in my obituary. atliens is their best album thouh

CORP$EY
01-03-2018, 10:13 AM
the funny (well actually probably TYPICAL) thing about my rap education is it took place when i was too young to buy much music and you had to buy music, in my case from an HMV or OUR PRICE that you had to get several buses just to get to

as such there are big gaps that i've never filled - sometimes, in the spotify/youtube era, it suddenly hits me out of nowhere that i can finally listen to all these albums that were never available or i couldn't afford...

so i own the first outkast album on CD (southernplayalistic...) and that never really took for me, which probably put me off buying the others, and here we are today

if only i'd had an older brother/sister to guide me so i didn't waste my money on analog brothers and louie logic CDs

luka
01-03-2018, 10:16 AM
i had a mate whos big sister made him grow his hair long like a girl and listen to James. the grass isnt always greener.

luka
01-03-2018, 10:17 AM
mind you a couple of years later she discovered raving and stuffed him full of e's

CORP$EY
01-03-2018, 10:22 AM
it was hip hop connection wot led me astray

sadmanbarty
01-03-2018, 02:07 PM
came accross much more cunty than i intended, sorry crowl.

sincerely,

contritemanbarty

CORP$EY
01-03-2018, 02:26 PM
barty is like the 2pac of dissensus and luka is suge knight

he started out as a sensitive, wistful, and poetic young man but then he got gassed up by the mafioso don and is now found screaming THUUUUUUUUUUUUUUG LIFE BABY as he leans out of the window of the mercedes benz gobbing at paparazzi

apologies to luka as i know he'd prefer to be rick ross

luka
01-03-2018, 02:36 PM
cackling

CORP$EY
01-03-2018, 02:39 PM
who am i in this west coast/east coast analogy, you ask?

i'm elton john on the hook of 'ghetto gospel'

luka
01-03-2018, 02:44 PM
chant this with me corpsey
"FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT"

sadmanbarty
01-03-2018, 03:41 PM
how my post was perceived

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41qC3w3UUkU

how it was intended

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJvPjelxxj0

luka
01-03-2018, 03:47 PM
we're still waiting on those youtubes. the big post you were writing in word remember?

luka
01-03-2018, 03:59 PM
we're still waiting on those youtubes. the big post you were writing in word remember?

im just here to learn something.

sadmanbarty
01-03-2018, 04:05 PM
not a big post on word, but this is just to give some eamples of what i was talking about in my other post, and show how they're related to eachotehr

at the most conservative/traditional end of the spectrum youíve got rapping in triplets, with some relatively subtle auto-tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBdrg68x_Ec

https://youtu.be/aTManZeKq8A

Take that, and then add a couple of elements. Fragment it slightly by leaving a space on the 1. Add ad libs to fill in those spaces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqtjV0k540M&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhWxE1TRPhg

Over that formula, you can play around with timbre and pitch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3hUHcRTlUY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTGQrA5HHIU

Or fragment it further. It gives you more room to interject ad-libs at different parts of the bar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm1YFszJWbQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJMHpdFwce8&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gTClz50yE&feature=youtu.be

taken to the extreme, you end up with whole sections are pretty much just ad-libs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39XR4EXFz5Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQd-oFbTylc

luka
01-03-2018, 04:39 PM
pretty convincing tbh. dunno about golden age but i liked a lot of those.

luka
01-03-2018, 04:40 PM
also i just copied and pasted your whole thing under my mates facebook post which i found hilarious

Ok can someone please explain what the actual fuck is going on in hip hop right now, I grew up with rappers like, Dr Dre, Snoop Dog, Tupac, Biggie, Jay Z, Nas, and the list goes on.........Now we got these motherfuckers with their hair coloured red and green and mumbling some bollocks lyrics that donít even make sense!! And why they all called ďLilĒ Something!!! Am I right to say Real Rappers are now a thing of the past?? 🤨🤨🤨🤨

luka
01-03-2018, 04:44 PM
Shit still sounds the same, maybe itís more for the kids nowadays, but growing up where rappers actually made sense! I just listen to the new stuff like itís trash!

luka
01-03-2018, 04:44 PM
hahaha lol so funy

craner
01-03-2018, 05:07 PM
I've been to Atlanta. It was quite grim. It has a Coca Cola museum.

sadmanbarty
01-03-2018, 05:19 PM
pretty convincing tbh. dunno about golden age but i liked a lot of those.

i guess the golden age thing was me thinking it was more widespread than it actually is. only when it came to giving examples of what i was talking about that i realised it's just future, thug and migos doing most of the major innovative stuff. there are some 2nd tier artists who do good things, but they're not essential; they're working in the parameters established by the major 3 acts. the fact that everyone's so prolific (and the internet means that everything's getting out) makes it feel like it's much bigger than it actually is.

luka
01-03-2018, 05:22 PM
that lookin' by playboy carti is actually really good. who would have thoght

luka
01-03-2018, 05:23 PM
that lookin' by playboy carti is actually really good. who would have thoght

bass sounding like the biggest elastic band in the world twanging.

luka
01-03-2018, 05:26 PM
also i just copied and pasted your whole thing under my mates facebook post which i found hilarious

Ok can someone please explain what the actual fuck is going on in hip hop right now, I grew up with rappers like, Dr Dre, Snoop Dog, Tupac, Biggie, Jay Z, Nas, and the list goes on.........Now we got these motherfuckers with their hair coloured red and green and mumbling some bollocks lyrics that donít even make sense!! And why they all called ďLilĒ Something!!! Am I right to say Real Rappers are now a thing of the past?? 🤨🤨🤨🤨

imagine getting bartys thesis under a comment like this lmao
'well, actually...'

Corpsey
01-03-2018, 05:27 PM
I like how Luka has harangued Barty into making a better illustrated argument

Reminds me of the film "whiplash"

sadmanbarty
01-03-2018, 05:29 PM
it's only so he can impress his romford friends on facebook

luka
01-03-2018, 05:32 PM
(east ham)

sadmanbarty
01-03-2018, 05:39 PM
taken to the extreme, you end up with whole sections are pretty much just ad-libs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAhNZO7Fwd0

Corpsey
01-03-2018, 05:41 PM
I think the last decade especially has seen a lot of experimentation with the voice in rap music - including autotune - and lyrics have become less important than delivery, to the point of the "mumble rap" thing, where it's not always mumbled but its often almost aggressively difficult to understand.

With my usual cheery ignorance I'll declare that Gucci Mane was a big innovator in this respect. He was mush mouthed, and I remember back in 2010 when I reconnected with rap people were saying they couldn't understand him, he sounded retarded etc. But compare him to some of the new school of mumble rappers and he sounds pretty crisp and clear - Future and Young Thug are nigh on incomprehensible at times, and yet huge stars.

To risk reprisals from ardent Futurologists, a future mixtape might have a handful of memorable lines, one or two revealing moments, but most of the time it doesn't matter what he's saying really.

And actually this extends to Kendrick too - obviously he has a lot more interesting things to say than Future as a general rule but his lyrics aren't impressive in the sense they would have been for a rapper of his reputation and stylistic lane in the 90s. It's all about his melodies, his array of voices and flows etc.

Corpsey
01-03-2018, 05:42 PM
Also the smeared annunciation of the swagrappers signals how cool they are, cos they're high, they don't give a fuck, etc. Definitely ties in with the transition rappers have made from drug dealers to drug takers.

Corpsey
01-03-2018, 05:44 PM
I wonder if one of the drivers of this sort of innovation is the low financial threshold for recording these days. Or the ease with which voices can be doubled up, pitched up and down, etc. Basically the advances in production have filtered into the vocals as well as the beats.

luka
01-03-2018, 05:45 PM
young thugs still the best though. ive just gone and listened to a load of him again after this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ne8nOhq43w

luka
01-03-2018, 05:46 PM
I wonder if one of the drivers of this sort of innovation is the low financial threshold for recording these days. Or the ease with which voices can be doubled up, pitched up and down, etc. Basically the advances in production have filtered into the vocals as well as the beats.

yeah its digital innit. was saying this in relation to keef. recording becomes notebook/sketchpad as opposed to primed canvas.

luka
01-03-2018, 05:48 PM
diary entries. it's a very different attitude to recording.

luka
01-03-2018, 05:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg9ZxQKSDuw

sadmanbarty
02-03-2018, 01:40 AM
pretty

https://youtu.be/UUsq5cOKCys

sadmanbarty
02-03-2018, 01:42 AM
pretty

https://youtu.be/dRGryyRVY_E

CrowleyHead
02-03-2018, 02:58 AM
yeah its digital innit. was saying this in relation to keef. recording becomes notebook/sketchpad as opposed to primed canvas.

Its most appropriate to Keef b/c Keef had a tendency to self-engineer and eventually self-produce. That 2013-2015 period you saw a lot of Keef basically arranging himself and constructing himself as he wanted to be heard in the most literal of terms. I genuinely detest "Auteur Theory" in rap because I obviously default to the idea of scene/dialogical formulation of style and ideas but for the most part he really did veer off and go in his own little space for a while. Lil' B did that in a very different way before him and Keef listened to a lot of Lil' B (though that aspect of him gets drastically underplayed). IDK if the two are related or not.

Contrastingly, Thug depended mostly on whomever in the Atlanta scene was engineering him. (Sadly in recent years some idiot con artist has taken unnecessary credit for a lot of Thug's autotuned experiments when in reality all of that was based on material he wrote and recorded in Atlanta studios; The LA material that guy is responsible for is mostly paff imo and he got to go into the Red Bull Music Academy and act like a creative genius. His work prior to Young Thug was for pop rock bands, he stumbled into credibility). A lot of his ideas, I don't know if they were or weren't processed with his input but then there's a lot of composition in this sort of collaboration that gets uncredited. Fetty Wap had an engineer on all his early material who helped him sound the way he did whom he'd credit very early on and then those two may/may not still work together and if not there's an argument that's why Fetty doesn't consistently sound as enjoyable. Who can say.

Ironically this response is me doing more and not acknowledging Atlanta AT ALL so Luka, Barty & Co. get to wait even longer.

Pearsall
03-03-2018, 12:10 AM
I'm interested in knowing why Atlanta rap is the way it is - why it isn't like New York, e.g. Not knowing the first thing about the city makes that difficult. Reminds me of the convo we had on here recently about how Brits can't really understand US rap cos it's so far removed from us. (Esp white middle class Brits like me)

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2017/03/15/520133445/culture-wars-trap-innovation-atlanta-hip-hop

ok, no one really answered your question here, so I will have a stab at this.

I too am also white and middle-class, but I am from New York City and my mother is from Georgia (she's from Savannah, but my aunt lives nearish to Atlanta, so close enough) so I can tell you a bit about the differences between the cities.

for one thing, they are just totally different in terms of urban geography. New York City is the densest city in the US; obviously Manhattan is particularly dense but even in the Outer Boroughs you mostly have a level of urban density that will be familiar to Europeans. This is especially the case in the poorer areas where rappers have traditionally come from - the South Bronx and central/eastern Brooklyn have a lot of massive public housing complexes as well as trains, buses and other kinds of public infrastructure. New York City itself also utterly dominates the wider metropolitan area (aka the Tri-State Area) in economic and cultural terms. Probably around 40% of the metropolitan area population lives in New York City, with another big chunk of the population living in highly urban satellite cities like Yonkers, Mount Vernon, Newark, Hoboken, Jersey City, etc.

Atlanta is different - for one thing the city itself isn't that big; it's only half a million in a metropolitan area of almost six million people. So Atlanta contains only a tenth of the metropolitan area's population. And the city proper is much less dense than NYC, and the suburbs even more so. Most people live in single-family homes and to the extent that people live in apartments they are overwhelmingly low-slung two- or three-storey complexes; not too many 20+ storey project towers. The whole physical structure is totally different - it's overwhelmingly car-dependent and sprawling. So a lot of the time when people refer to 'Atlanta' it is not just to the city itself but to the vast suburban sprawl that surrounds it as well. For a while after the Civil Rights movement the city was majority black and Democratic while the suburbs were majority white and Republican, but that has become more mixed in recent years as many suburban areas have become much more black (there are quite a few majority black suburbs in the Atlanta area), and the city has gentrified and become more white. One impact of this city/suburban divide (which has been more pronounced than the divisions in the NYC area) is that the public transport system is a joke for such a big area. The car is king, and one side effect of that is that Atlanta has really horrendous traffic. Also, the big sprawl means that Atlanta is much more oriented around malls, strip malls, big box stores, and all of the other types of car-centric retail infrastructure than New York is.

Atlanta itself has long played a very important role in African-American life - there are a whole bunch of what are called HBCU's (Historically Black Colleges and Universities) there, and the Atlanta area has developed a very large black middle- and upper-middle class. The metropolitan area is one-third black, and the population has been booming as black professionals from across America have flocked there for job opportunities. There are a lot of big companies headquartered in the Atlanta area (Delta, Coca-Cola, CNN, etc) and the economy has been pretty strong. So there are a lot of opportunities! On the flip side, that means that in Atlanta there is also a pretty big class divide between different parts of the black community. You have well-educated professionals in good jobs as well as a lot of poverty and struggle. New York City of course also has a black middle-class and some of these issues as well, but in my experience at least Atlanta is more obviously black and black success and wealth is more visible.

Even beyond the black population, Atlanta has been economically booming for a while - the population has grown really rapidly in the last few decades (this also contributes to the horrendous traffic).

Also, another difference is demographic, in that I would also say that the black population in Atlanta is more African-American, i.e. descended from slaves who lived in the Southern states. In New York a very large proportion of the black population are immigrants or the children of immigrants (predominantly from the Caribbean), whereas Atlanta, although it of course has black immigrants, doesn't have such large or prominent communities of Jamaicans, Haitians, Trinidadians, etc. Nor does it have big communities from the Spanish Caribbean, like New York does - far fewer Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. The Atlanta area now has a pretty sizeable number of Latino immigrants, but they are mostly Mexicans and Central Americans afaik. Puerto Ricans and Dominicans have played a big role in the history of New York hip-hop and really in New York City culture in general, which is probably not something that Europeans are all that aware of. So their absence will also affect Atlanta in comparison to New York.

Also, white Atlanta is very different from white New York. Obviously the Atlanta area has taken many white transplants from other parts of the country, but in the metro area most whites are still Protestant and of British descent, whereas in New York most whites are either Jewish or Catholic and, um, not descended from Brits. I am sure you would know this already, but Southern whites have historically had quite different opinions on the role of government and on optimal levels of taxation from Jewish/Catholic New Yorkers. This is wandering quite far from music, but these choices also affect how Atlanta is, and how it has developed, which probably does affect the music in some weird and undefinable way.

The last piece of the puzzle is the weather. Have you ever been to Georgia in August? It's like walking through a giant open-air sauna. It's hot and sticky. Sure, New York gets hot and humid too in the summer, but the South is just way worse. It really affects the general tenor of everyday life - things are simply a lot slower.

So, I am not really sure how that feeds into the music, but Atlanta is very different demographically, economically, politically, climactically and geographically from New York City, so it stands to reason that this will play some role in the differences in musical output.

Whoa, that was an essay.

TL;DR: Atlanta is very different from New York

Corpsey
03-03-2018, 12:28 AM
JeeeeZ

Thankyou

CrowleyHead
03-03-2018, 11:28 PM
Luka demaned I finish what I started so I'm gonna try to demonstrate my points a lot more thoroughly for the moment...

There's basically two generational lines that occur in Atlanta Rap in this decade. The first is the one who came before who existed in what I'd call the "Crunk" generation. All these rappers owe their existence to the crunk boom first and foremost as that was a result of the big explosion of Atlanta being a new mass movement culture who could dictate trends; post-Outkast country rap existed but the successes were tangible and harder to determine (and at least one or two acts like Polow da Don from Jim Crow, Youngbloodz and even T.I. himself were loosely affiliated with the Outkast camp) beyond a couple of hits or some critical favor.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6E0oGIWpiGs" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In fact you have T.I. making a cameo here for this Polow-produced, Big Boi featuring Youngbloodz record.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HV2r0XfRJUY" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Aaaaand here's Youngbloodz reinventing themselves into crunk rappers.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/E1u9u7mq9Ck" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And T.I. dabbling in the crunk trend.

It has to go without saying that Crunk is a big factor into what became KNOWN AS TRAP in the turn of the decade via Waka Flocka Flame because in reality he's a throwback to Crunk in that 2nd wave by himself (though Luger's production certainly was a major force in that). The reality of the situation is you can for many acts see a transition from that country-rap sound (to which trap was a sub-genre originally which TI and Gucci (not Jeezy)) existed on as local phenomena. Not mainstream just by the nature of it being such a singular and very ATL thing. Both of them actually were able to further their success off Snap Rap which was a sort of minimalist take on crunk by the likes of Nitti, Soulja Boy & others.

As this happens there are some acts who kind of work as bridges between the generations such as Crime Mob and Dem Franchize Boyz (I wouldn't call D4L necessarily one of these because of their age but they no doubt held major influence) where the career model is not only shifting from going from the traditional business models of self-promotion to 'virality' via Myspace, Youtube, Imeem, & other digital avenues of easy music distribution, but also an attitude. This occurs all over the nation basically and in different attitudes but the whole spiel is that it becomes easy to get your music to your peers without having to be 'anyone'. You don't need to be on the radio, you don't need to be on TV; there's nothing more legitimate than being able to watch it on your computer the same way you might try to watch or listen to actual Musical celebrities. The piracy and cheapness and ease of being able to make music finally also goes into the digital realm. (For the older UK heads obviously there's a parallel to grime here though the culture is so much more different b/c Grime is a hybrid and doesn't really easily exist in rap as you already know, whereas all this just happens in rap as rap is supposed to go.)

What you have resulting is a scene dominated by kids, for kids, making literal Teen-Pop Rap. At first it comes out of Snap going into a very bright and fizzy direction (possibly due to a prevalence of ecstasy on the scene) that's definitely coming out of Gucci but also a couple of post-Gucci Atlanta rappers like J-Money/Futuristic and Yung LA.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jTS_zOSiGBo" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Luka calls this stuff 'annoying' and ultimately he's right because it's basically a juvenile scene sonically and energy-wise. A lot of the energy goes to weird jokes about flashiness that are fueled by the post-virality notion that if it pisses people off its good and pokes fun at mores in a way that deflates the machismo of rap.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6d3lBL1PFhQ" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This gets ugly because as the scene is dominated the older generation just blatantly copies it because the few who are commercially viable and still making music (because few if anyone are mature adults and have survived both the Crunk Wave ('02-'04) and the snap wave ('05-'07). So you have teens being brats and adults playing at being teens in a sense. There's a lot of ideas from younger kids starting trends being ripped off; specifically you often see Travis Porter, one of the largest phenomenon groups, watching as their collaborators such as Yung LA go off into the commercial sphere while they remain a grassroots phenomenon. I've got friends who talk of their crowds causing literal riot cops being called on them at SXSW in 07 but it took forever for them to finally have a retail album and by that time a lot of the buzz had deflated and we were in the trap boom by that point.

I'm jumping across timelines back and forth here but the 2nd generation I indicated is where both Thug and a lot of his most immediate peers (Skooly, Rich Homie Quan, Cash Out, Migos) and acts in cities that are utterly disconnected to Atlanta but would tangentially mine similar territories and also both be influenced by and/or influence the parallel scenes (The post-hyphy scene with Lil' B who begat the jerk scene with YG and Chief Keef in Chicago to a less explored degree). In this generation the primary understanding of rap is how to use the voice as an irritant, almost in a blues-like tradition (as opposed to the Older "Bluesman" recognized Country Rappers such as Boosie). A lot of these rappers, you go back to their earliest available material and so much of it is STRAIGHT OUT of the futuristic playbook with both its autotune usage, the cadences, the whining voices (which Thug has still kept in pretty much earnest). You look at Young Thug's earliest 'hit' in Atlanta:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sosAMnL8fc4" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And you easily can slot it next to material such as

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Q-DK2x07Qg8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zmmNq1Ividg" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Luka and Barty are not wrong to argue that Thug has taken these sort of understandings of rap to a further level of technique and actual skillset along with good traditional rapping. But its emerged from this scene and understanding how to harness comprehending rap on this level via autotune, via appreciation of melody over lyrics, via this higher-voiced effervescence. But as a person I once saw on twitter say "If you're the kind of person who used to listen to the F.L.Y. album on your iPod, you know there's nothing that 'weird' about Young Thug" and it was by far the most succinct statement to how far the narrative on him had been spun poorly.

There's a lot of stuff here I'm failing to mention such as you know, why this scene eventually got recodified into masculine presentation after the trap boom and of course Future who's both a over and under emphasized figure in this scene in particular but I think this is enough for a base argument.

luka
04-03-2018, 12:24 AM
top post. great effort.

Corpsey
04-03-2018, 10:46 AM
A1 post

Pearsall's post also excellent, particularly interesting re: the importance of cars (I think Bliss blogger touched on this too - EDIT: his whole post was about it).

What about strip club culture?

Corpsey
04-03-2018, 10:47 AM
Particularly taken with the idea of using the voice as an annoyance

sadmanbarty
04-03-2018, 10:48 AM
it's a bit like craner and luka got their pokemon to fight

Corpsey
04-03-2018, 10:54 AM
Lukas assumed an editorial position, he's bringing out the best in people by annoying them purposefully, a bit like the preswag Atlanta pre renaissance rappers

luka
04-03-2018, 11:07 AM
essentially this thread is about the step change from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sosAMnL8fc4&feature=youtu.be

to even relatively early

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EkTrgauCnw

luka
04-03-2018, 11:55 AM
and i suppose part of crowley's argument is that innovation can't always be quantified in
musicological terms. in the same way that the native tongues didn't so much
sound different as act different.

sadmanbarty
04-03-2018, 12:42 PM
i think innovation happens when you create something genuinely and concretely novel in musicological terms that is able to express something new physiologically or emotionally (or at least finds a new way to express those things).

what i’ve taken from crowley’s post is that these future swag lot had the goal in mind, but I’d argue they hadn’t yet found to means to get there. it took till thug/homie quan to articulate what they were after in music terms.

also as i said before, it think there are two interrelated strands off the post-2014 stuff. one more timbre focussed (thug) and one more rhythm focussed (migos).

luka
04-03-2018, 12:52 PM
never mind.

luka
04-03-2018, 01:04 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNQ_0A-LNUA

luka
04-03-2018, 02:08 PM
had to directly ask crowley what 'the FLY album' was cos i couldnt stand waiting here for the answer

CrowleyHead
04-03-2018, 04:46 PM
that these future swag lot had the goal in mind, but Iíd argue they hadnít yet found to means to get there.

Its more like the goalposts continuously go further and further once one has been reached. I briefly explained this to Luka when he grabbed me on twitter but a lot of these sounds come out of things that immediately preceded. So for example a lot of the snap rap and steel-pan sound, as well as the vibrancy and flighty energy of your Zaytoven type producers leading into this.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/laKZgVdbj2U" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Again it connects to this

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SdJAhvTSsI4" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

on a beat and structural level, but there's a differing mentality of presentation. The big damnation for a lot of this is ultimately Flocka. But the irony is Flocka was at first an abnormality and also in the more Future Swag grouping by default, but more obviously agressive and fight-music (the pendulum had shifted you see; by this point when Lil' Wayne & Young Money were doing Futuristic influenced songs such as "Bedrock" and "Steady Mobbin" and the 'happy rap' phenomenon had become mainstreamed so significantly that Grown Adult Rap needed to return; lo and behold, Flocka becomes dominant in Atlanta and the surrounding south off the strength of now that same youth network growing older and then looking for aggressive music that doesn't sound so shiny and polished, is more succeptible to the return of 'crunk'-type energies, only this time through the trapper lens.

But the big irony is before Flocka properly blows up, he does a joint tape with the other biggest act of his age group... Travis Porter!

So the guys who assist with songs like this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Es-CNSQQ0IE" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/gBX4g-WcC4c" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

are still doing this.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1TP674kPFh8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/s0pl39fggd8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And ironically, despite you know, Ross blowing up Flocka's sound with Lex Luger which in turn helped Flocka supercede the fame of Gucci temporarily, his biggest song off of Flockavelli was the *drummroll* Roscoe Dash featured "No Hands"!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/skhxizRYxps" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(ironically Roscoe Dash (formerly called ATL or Yung ATL) I've left off here a bit but he had a loooot of airplay and was my no means a marginal figure)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1OhqnlDbhoE" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And last ironic note, just as evidence of the links more formally for barty from one of his points of interest:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/v5xV5xhXCKc?start=296" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Corpsey
04-03-2018, 05:58 PM
Poor barty

https://33.media.tumblr.com/264fa39dd6babb18023f36bfe4118b6f/tumblr_nouyx7BeuD1s3mekdo1_400.gif

sadmanbarty
04-03-2018, 09:12 PM
I suppose Iíve written a lot and posted a lot of links, but havenít been able to show any of the musical innovations barty was talking about occurring during the future swag era. I guess Iíll have to pack it in and admit heís right (as he so often is). Itís been an interesting discussion though.

Yeah, definitely interesting. Youíve educated me about a whole lineage I didnít have a clue about. As you said the actual musical innovations werenít there with the future swag stuff, but youíre definitely right that the young thug side of the aesthetic was being formulated around this time, even if it wasn't properly realised. not to mention a lot of the big names whoíve come to dominate the Atlanta sound were a part of the scene.

your next assignment is to explain the big shift in production that kicked off around 2015. due next sunday.

sadmanbarty
04-03-2018, 09:18 PM
i like how team barty and team crowley are the same split as 'i feel fur you' and 'ain't nobody'.

sadmanbarty
04-03-2018, 09:23 PM
though to be fair, corpse's only team crowley cause i keep annoying him with dm's.

Corpsey
04-03-2018, 09:52 PM
I'm team everybody

luka
04-03-2018, 10:53 PM
I'm team everybody

corpsey is coming to our south-east london male encounter group for personal growth and better being this friday.

))))))):love:(((((((

sadmanbarty
04-03-2018, 10:55 PM
proper intimate. no macho nonsense

sadmanbarty
04-03-2018, 11:07 PM
make your way past the pets at home and luke will buzz you in. the smiley blond lady with frizzy hair might smile at you as you make your way along the hall. luka's door will open, though seemingly nobody will have opened it. you'll tentatively make your way through it. it'll be dark, your heart racing. weat dripping. is this the right thing to be doing? smoke and light will be emanating from the door that faces you. you want to turn back but an undeniable force pulls you closer. the door opens...

me and luka in his living room at 41.45

https://youtu.be/5HN9y1z1Z9A?t=41m56s

luka
04-03-2018, 11:18 PM
see you there corpsey. just be yourself man.

))))))):love:(((((((

sadmanbarty
04-03-2018, 11:21 PM
you don't have to do anything you're uncomfortable with. it's supposed to be a welcoming environment. just because i have my shirt off doesn't mean you have to. all's welcome in the temple of now. the temple of you.

luka
04-03-2018, 11:31 PM
we might communicate with you in non-verbal ways, skin to skin. the body has its own truth. just focus on the breath and birth a better you.

))))))):love:(((((((

sadmanbarty
04-03-2018, 11:34 PM
don't let society tell you it's sexual. it's beyond that. beyond labels or taboo. just us. just breath. just being.

sadmanbarty
04-03-2018, 11:35 PM
503

Corpsey
05-03-2018, 08:21 AM
Back off u creeps

sadmanbarty
05-03-2018, 04:51 PM
your next assignment is to explain the big shift in production that kicked off around 2015. due next sunday.

i'm hoping if i say something about cloud rap in this context that it'll either be vaguely right or so incredibly ignorant that it'll force crowley to teach me. i don't have an opinion on this one so you don't have to worry about that.

sadmanbarty
05-03-2018, 04:52 PM
unlike crowley my dad wasn't in killarmy, so i don't know about these things.

luka
05-03-2018, 04:56 PM
i'm hoping if i say something about cloud rap in this context that it'll either be vaguely right or so incredibly ignorant that it'll force crowley to teach me. i don't have an opinion on this one so you don't have to worry about that.

what is the big shift?

sadmanbarty
05-03-2018, 04:56 PM
i think he's the one in the back with the craig david facial hair

506

sadmanbarty
05-03-2018, 04:58 PM
what is the big shift?

i'm hoping crowley will tell us.

sadmanbarty
05-03-2018, 05:04 PM
1017 thug, migos 'no label 2' and future's 'honest' have lots of midi strings and bells. a few tacky synth arpegios.

the stuff coming out after that is totally different.

sadmanbarty
05-03-2018, 05:09 PM
i think the older stuff is faster as well. i'll have a listen to the drums and bore everyone to tears if i hear a difference.

sadmanbarty
05-03-2018, 05:11 PM
the older stuff is more trebly and also more dense; there's more stuff going on in the instrumentals.

sadmanbarty
05-03-2018, 05:12 PM
Back off u creeps

))))))):love:(((((((

CrowleyHead
05-03-2018, 09:25 PM
Actually yeah to clarify are we talking over the years indicated in the thread title or...

CrowleyHead
05-03-2018, 09:27 PM
Also, no my father was not in Killa Army, god forbid

luka
05-03-2018, 09:35 PM
Actually yeah to clarify are we talking over the years indicated in the thread title or...

pretty sure it means in the time period specified in the thread yeah

sadmanbarty
05-03-2018, 10:20 PM
Actually yeah to clarify are we talking over the years indicated in the thread title or...

I think there's a little bit of a lag between when the vocals start to change and when the instrumentals do (maybe the beats changed in part as a response to the vocals). either tonight or tomorrow morning i'll explain in more detail what i'm on about and then you can get back to filling your lunch breaks with whatever nonsense me and luka happen to be pestering with you on that particular day.

luka
05-03-2018, 10:24 PM
I think there's a little bit of a lag between when the vocals start to change and when the instrumentals do (maybe the beats changed in part as a response to the vocals). either tonight or tomorrow morning i'll explain in more detail what i'm on about and then you can get back to filling your lunch breaks with whatever nonsense me and luka happen to be pestering with you on that particular day.

3 hours still till bartys bedtime. might as well get it done tonight.

sadmanbarty
06-03-2018, 12:35 AM
This is comparing things, on the one hand, like 1017 thug, Honest, no label 2 and Ďfeels good to be richí with later albums by the same artists; barter 6, 56 nights, culture, keep flexin.

The types of instrumentals used on the early projects and the later ones fit into two different camps. You can hear the gradual evolution of the sound over time, 2014 in particular seems to be the transition year.

The early stuff is largely centered around a sort of Ďmidi-orchestraí sound; the kind of preset, inbuilt midi strings, brass, choirs, church bells, etc. you get with DAWís. similarly there are also a lot of preset-sounding synth sounds. Even when it doesnít fit into that mould youíre still getting the instrumentation being idiomatic; itís derivative of pre-established genres. In terms of arrangement a lot of itís more maximalist and dense.

On the other hand, the later stuff is more minimal and is not particularly derivative of anything. You couldnít point to instrumentals and say Ďit sounds like x genreí. I think the timbres are warmer as well.

CORP$EY
09-03-2018, 03:39 PM
I ordered that book you recommended Crowley

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/12/18/how-coach-k-guides-atlantas-hip-hop-stars

How Coach K Guides Atlantaís Hip-Hop Stars
With rappers like Migos and Lil Yachty, the impresario known as Coach K wants to both build a company and build up the city.

CrowleyHead
10-03-2018, 01:12 PM
I was trying to pinpoint this for barty and I don't have the longform in my brain yet but... It's gotta be DJ Spinz.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/A64rK8RR8L0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wrnBaLyp1C4" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

He's a sort of vital figure scene wise but as a producer, I think he kind of indicated the 'deflation' of trap coinciding with the toughening and crystalizing of futuristic strains into one generalized movement.

CrowleyHead
16-03-2018, 04:05 PM
Cramming this in b4 I gotta get on a bus in an hour.

So the crystalization in the early part of the 2010s occurs as a result of DJ Spinz. Spinz & DJ Pretty Boy Tank were brought in under DJ Scream into the Hoodrich Entertainment brand (Scream was an affiliate DJ in the Gangsta Grillz along w/ DJ Holiday). Their Space Invaders series was a lot of the futuristic swag atlanta rap loosies and general overviews of the scene (Barty; if you've grabbed any of Hoodrich Keem's compilations, think that but for the period I insist on) (also Pretty Boy Tank is responsible personally for one of my favorite of the tapes that transitioned these phases)

<script src='https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/m/104986/script/' type='text/javascript'></script><noscript><a href='https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/dj-victoriouz-lobby-runners-mixtape.104986.html' target='_blank'>DJ Victoriouz - Lobby Runners</a></noscript>

Spinz as the Space Invaders series grew in popularity became a big radio DJ and helped streamline both the futuristic and the trap threads together into a solid Atlanta product (the same way Esco is credited for doing at Magic City and other strip club DJs. As a result a lot of the monotonous trap records got phased out in favor of ones that had impact sonically for a set, and the more whimsical and immature futuristic records were also parsed in favor of clubby records. This lead to the melodic experimental thread and the aggressive thread being forcibly bound together. You can see how it even shifted Thug sonically from say...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nmGSauHWsyo" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

to

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fGuuuSV1L4Q" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This nexus was also the benificiary of Spinz knowing how to court the more blogger center of the music press; your Fader/Vice types, which of course attracted more left-field camps whom prior were making less trap-influenced music and more say... Odd Future influenced music like Key!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9fRdfoH2I5w" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

to

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/H2juwNI5tbk" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

See what I mean?

sadmanbarty
16-03-2018, 04:11 PM
when all else fails there's always crowley. i'm off now but will read it later.

sadmanbarty
20-03-2018, 12:18 PM
luka keeps pestering me to respond. not much to say. that mixtape's the perfect example of the transition.

i think we're all in agreement. it went from being dominated by that midi-orchstra sound (luka called it 'fanfare') to something less derivative, more ambient.

from horns, strings, bells, choir, conventional synth bleeps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4l2e80vR0w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g838yow8Kwc

to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg9ZxQKSDuw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm1YFszJWbQ

luka
04-07-2018, 04:05 PM
a big shift has been this turn to fragmentary flows comprising of quick bursts of staccato triplets being broken up with lots of interjecting ad-libs. like people trying to make 'hold on se22 mix)' with their voices alone; it's the same sort of effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDYEOmYPtkA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQd-oFbTylc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeyfOEb7ET0

doesn't account for young thug though, he doesn't do much of this.

get right witcha is amazing.

sadmanbarty
04-07-2018, 07:57 PM
whats the best migos thing to listen to?


cultureís not very consistent but it's where they reach their psychedelic peek:

reynoldís favourite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm1YFszJWbQ

hold on se22 mix:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7miOi5oNH4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeyfOEb7ET0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VUa99-tJqs


yrn 2 isnít as innovative, but itís probably the best lp overall. crowley says itís the best thing theyíve done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJMHpdFwce8&index=2&list=PLxAEGETseE4WI-OWiXC2bmvH86cLS4JYK

this is their peek in terms of conventional rapping:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBOW1ylpXng&feature=youtu.be


donít think youíll like it, but i think no label 2 is them absorbing 1017 thug a little bit:

https://youtu.be/WxO9i3EFQts

https://youtu.be/rZ5ugcTQPYQ

https://youtu.be/b4gTClz50yE

some good instrumentals on it:

https://youtu.be/IDmIHUnelM4

https://youtu.be/BPAjChUWhvM


get right witcha is amazing.



Yeah, I think it was listening to that one that made think that they were descended from heaven. All those cherub flutes. Otherworldly.

Sent from my iPhone


Mike Tysonís bite (Ah urr ah urr)

Sent from my iPhone


whos the one with the last verse on get right witcha? hes shit


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm1YFszJWbQ

assess the gucci verse in this migos context. prefer it? sounds old?


i fucking love this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo14xGYwWd4
why are you working? put it off till tomorrow


takeoff, the most traditional rapper out of migos.

gucci verse is dire. not really a fan of him in general though. iíd say itís ignoring migosí innovations. theyíre staccato, they rap in single lego blocks, theyíre todd edwards samples, whereas gucciís verse sounds like slime down tiles; a singular, viscous substance flowing as one.


takeoff. shittest name. i could have worked it out if id thought about it. obvious innit


todd edwards samples excatly.


migos are the apathetic version of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1c9SaPWZVQ


do you like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSOgNCJmQvU
i really like it even yachty


i like it, donít love it. itís not transcendental and psychedelic like my favourite stuff by them, just a bit of fun. ad lib calling joe budden a pussy always makes me laugh, like playground humour.

i made the mistake of trying to find redeeming qualities of yachty, sort of though he was like millenial hauntology and thought that might be interesting. actually only ended up liking the stuff where he wasn;ít doing that sort of thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIWDUClYs6I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8OG5ffqfoE

.

luka
04-07-2018, 08:04 PM
todd edwards/migos comparison is genius. spot on.

DannyL
05-07-2018, 12:58 PM
Migos kinda reminded me of the black vocal group tradition that started with doo-wop and crossed over into soul. Quarterts and trios - lotso Lots of emphasis on vocal pyrotechnics rather than lyrics as such. I suppose Bone Thug are part of this lineage to.

My fave by then:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=JuEx34u3o3o

luka
11-07-2018, 05:23 PM
three words

skippa da flippa

we need to unravel this gnomic utterance

mistersloane
15-07-2018, 09:31 AM
Cramming this in b4 I gotta get on a bus in an hour.

So the crystalization in the early part of the 2010s occurs as a result of DJ Spinz. Spinz & DJ Pretty Boy Tank were brought in under DJ Scream into the Hoodrich Entertainment brand (Scream was an affiliate DJ in the Gangsta Grillz along w/ DJ Holiday).

Pretty Boy Tank just did a really good mix of new Atlanta stuff for Westwood :

https://www.mixcloud.com/TimWestwood/pretty-boy-tank-hoodrich-entertainment-reppin-atlanta-westwood-hip-hop-mix-show/

luka
19-07-2018, 09:38 AM
Pretty Boy Tank just did a really good mix of new Atlanta stuff for Westwood :

https://www.mixcloud.com/TimWestwood/pretty-boy-tank-hoodrich-entertainment-reppin-atlanta-westwood-hip-hop-mix-show/

this is really good. i was just looking for something like this too so perfect timing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltb8F62NqGU

sadmanbarty
11-04-2019, 08:43 PM
please can you post some tracks the preempt what i believe to be migos innovations?

luka
11-04-2019, 09:09 PM
He's talking about three 6 mafia doing triplets. Surely you have heard that stuff before?

luka
11-04-2019, 09:10 PM
Get back to him on the pissing issue he raised on the road rap thread. Great question which shouldn't be left dangling.

sadmanbarty
11-04-2019, 09:13 PM
He's talking about three 6 mafia doing triplets. Surely you have heard that stuff before?

of course. i love them.

i assume he's got more than that though. it doesn't sound like migos.

sadmanbarty
11-04-2019, 09:15 PM
if nothing comes of this i want personal apologies from third, luke and web.

"oh barty, we're so sorry. you're so funny and beautiful we couldn't believe that you could be so cleaver as well."

i'll still hold a grudge for a bit, but if you can stay in my good books i'll forgive you.

luka
11-04-2019, 09:17 PM
Answer the piss question. its personally tailored to you, a ball squared into the six yard box and the goalkeeper stranded in no mans land. He's gone out of his way to set you up.

WebEschatology
12-04-2019, 02:55 AM
I mean Three 6 werent the only ones in Memphis using triples and really it was only Lord Infamous,T-Rock & Kingpin Skinny Pimp doing it, Gangsta Pat comes to mind as far as that hard staccato thing, Tommy Wright III too hell even Z-ro if you wanna go outside of Memphis but his flow is slightly more measured it doesnt have the clipped quality that those guys do

But i just feel like their heavily in dept to Gucci without being in his orbit in the way Flocka,Nicki and them are their more animated and prefer a more springy and lusher beds of beats compared to him but that kind of commitment? to just talking about the same topics over again but the difference being Gucci went deeper into trying to find newer stranger ways to say an old thing.

I dunno im sure like Crowley says with UK drill im probably not picking up on the "minutae" what theyre doing but i just dont hear it, i feel like you get more personality out of them than i do where i feel like theres alot of flash and they dress like dancehall artists but thats it for something so broad they come off kinda dry for me ,its why i think overtime people went from overpraising Quavo to realising that maybe hes better off doing hooks more than anything and thats fine its just nah at worst like that Game of thrones shit or the james corden clip you might aswell just have a soundboard stored with their adlibs.

If you feel like im going hard on them like i said before there are a few songs that i like from em and i like them more than Travis Scott thats for sure

(also i typed this out at 3 cause i cant sleep so if this comes off scattered thats why)

Corpsey
12-04-2019, 08:37 AM
Dunno about now but when I first heard Migos they sounded like Gucci clones to me.

luka
12-04-2019, 08:38 AM
Bartys never listened to Gucci cos he got into rap in 2016 so this is a bit unfair on him. Before his time.

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 08:46 AM
Bartys never listened to Gucci cos he got into rap in 2016 so this is a bit unfair on him. Before his time.



golden rule, whenever luke writes "barty says" whatever follows is 100% something i didn't say.

.

luka
12-04-2019, 08:49 AM
It's alright I've never listened to Gucci either. Not into it.

luka
12-04-2019, 08:50 AM
When corpsey was a rap critic he forced himself to listen to Gucci 12 hours a day cos it was the time of the Great Gucci reappraisal.

luka
12-04-2019, 08:51 AM
I tried but it didn't stick.

luka
12-04-2019, 08:54 AM
The rap Internet has its own currents and waves and weather patterns. It likes to single out and auteurise. Cam'ron, Gucci, Keef

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 08:54 AM
we need to start moving towards a position of ďbartyís the most astute, important music commentator of his generationĒ.

I said something that was off handidly dismissed. When I come to scrutinise the reasons why it was dismissed they evaporate to steam.

We need to reach a point when Barty says something you disagree with, your immediate assumption is that he knows something ir picked up in something you havenít. The fault is with you and not him.

luka
12-04-2019, 08:55 AM
Ol Dirty Bastard. They always have to have a cartoonish element to them. There's rules about who gets to recieve this treatment.

Corpsey
12-04-2019, 08:55 AM
It's true he was in vogue which is why I listened to him but I did actually fall in love with his music and genuflect before him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Lm5_FnJD0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPTsBYbescc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BrjDE97Wq8

Not that any of these sound like Migos, just three examples of him on fire

luka
12-04-2019, 08:56 AM
Crowleyhead will know all about this stuff and how it operates.

luka
12-04-2019, 09:00 AM
One of the interesting things about Bartys quest to auteurise Migos is that the Internet did it already, years ago. (Migos are better than the Beatles memes) Their cartoonish aspect was perfect for the Internet. But Barty is saying that was the wrong Migos. The Internet jumped the gun. They didn't find their feet/perfect their formula till much later.

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 09:02 AM
One of the interesting things about Bartys quest to auteurise Migos is that the Internet did it already, years ago. (Migos are better than the Beatles memes) Their cartoonish aspect was perfect for the Internet. But Barty is saying that was the wrong Migos. The Internet jumped the gun. They didn't find their feet/perfect their formula till much later.

ďBarty saysĒ is actually I did say this time round.

luka
12-04-2019, 09:03 AM
I'm not sneering btw. I like the quixotic aspect of the quest. I like that it goes against popular opinion. I like that it tries to canonise what most people consider unsalvagable and I agree with the aesthetic appriasal, at least in as much as I think you've isolated and identified the best Migos.

luka
12-04-2019, 09:05 AM
Most innovative rapping since Rakim is not an argument you'll ever win but I think you will triumph in the wider sense, establish that particular Migos as a high water mark, important, etc

luka
12-04-2019, 09:06 AM
Your reputation will be established on winning two arguments, two fights, the U.K. Drill one and the Migos one. Once the dust has settled there you'll have to work out what to do next. But that won't be for a little while yet.

Corpsey
12-04-2019, 09:07 AM
The rap Internet has its own currents and waves and weather patterns. It likes to single out and auteurise. Cam'ron, Gucci, Keef

I dunno, Gucci Mane obviously picked up critical cred after the fact of his street popularity, but he was a hugely influential figure in rap 'forreal'. Migos, Future, Young Thug, all influenced and supported by him. Chief Keef arguably wouldn't exist without him, and UK drill wouldn't exist without Chicago drill. Of course, you can trace anybody back to a thousand other anybodys...

I suppose you must feel about Gucci Mane what I feel about Migos - perhaps an acknowledgement of their popularity and importance but without any real affection.

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 09:07 AM
Thatís the heart if the issue. People formulated their opinions when they were making this annoying childish music. Hence why crown could only see it as future swag.

Thereís a whole bit after that where, as I say, they pioneered a rhythmic language unprecedented in rap. The stark difference between what rapping (in the US) is before and after them probably hasnít been as big since rakim.

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 09:08 AM
Most innovative rapping since Rakim is not an argument you'll ever win but I think you will triumph in the wider sense, establish that particular Migos as a high water mark, important, etc

Which artist then?

luka
12-04-2019, 09:11 AM
I know what the argument is. I do get it. I do think you are the most astute music commentator of your generation actually. I think that you will win. Innovation is a hard one though because you don't have an obsessive interest in rap. You don't have that urge to listen to things you don't like to establish genealogies and timelines. I don't either. But that's the sort of thing you have to do to really argue about innovation. Who did what first, how are trends formulated and spread etc. That requires a more scholarly approach.

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 09:13 AM
Nelly melodies?

T-pain/Kanye/Wayne with auto tune?

The popularisation of south style call and response?

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 09:14 AM
I know what the argument is. I do get it. I do think you are the most astute music commentator of your generation actually. I think that you will win. Innovation is a hard one though because you don't have an obsessive interest in rap. You don't have that urge to listen to things you don't like to establish genealogies and timelines. I don't either. But that's the sort of thing you have to do to really argue about innovation. Who did what first, how are trends formulated and spread etc. That requires a more scholarly approach.

Steam

Corpsey
12-04-2019, 09:16 AM
I don't study these things either but it seems to me that what really reinvigorated rap in the last few decades was the rise of the south and the spread of southern flows through all rap, globally... Which I guess coincided with the spread of southern production styles like trap. I guess this began in the late 90s when you had Biggie with Bone Thugs, Jay-Z with UGK, Cam'ron doing Bout It Bout It, etc.

luka
12-04-2019, 09:18 AM
Nelly melodies?

T-pain/Kanye/Wayne with auto tune?

The popularisation of south style calm and response?

There's a multitude of contenders. I don't know how you would even begin. What metrics would you use? Being boring and serious.... Like I can't even imagine.

I'm a Barty supporter. I believe in Barty. I like the claim. I appreciate it. But its not a winnable argument. It's a good flag to wave to attract attention but not a winnable argument.

luka
12-04-2019, 09:20 AM
I dunno, Gucci Mane obviously picked up critical cred after the fact of his street popularity, but he was a hugely influential figure in rap 'forreal'. Migos, Future, Young Thug, all influenced and supported by him. Chief Keef arguably wouldn't exist without him, and UK drill wouldn't exist without Chicago drill. Of course, you can trace anybody back to a thousand other anybodys...

I suppose you must feel about Gucci Mane what I feel about Migos - perhaps an acknowledgement of their popularity and importance but without any real affection.

Of course I'm not saying he doesn't have a real world influence alongside his distorted reflection on the Internet. All the people I listed do. All important, influential etc

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 09:20 AM
I’m winning right now.

There’s a lot of knowledge between the posters on this forum. Nobody’s come up with anything to say I’m wrong.

Corpsey
12-04-2019, 09:24 AM
Innovation is overrated, discuss (5000 words)

Inevitable tedious literary comparisons:

Joyce didn't invent the stream of consciousness (he said he got the idea from a novel by …douard Dujardin) but he 'perfected' it.

Shakespeare didn't invent blank verse. Flaubert didn't invent free indirect style...

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 09:26 AM
Iím not neccasarily after it being winnable, just it being credible.

Itís not some ridiculous, ignorant or unfounded claim. Thereís a lot to suggest itís right.

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 09:27 AM
Innovation is overrated, discuss (5000 words)

Inevitable tedious literary comparisons:

Joyce didn't invent the stream of consciousness (he said he got the idea from a novel by …douard Dujardin) but he 'perfected' it.

Shakespeare didn't invent blank verse. Flaubert didn't invent free indirect style...

Make it a thread please corpse. Be balls to the wall about. Don’t qualify or apoligise fir what you’re saying.

Corpsey
12-04-2019, 09:29 AM
'In its purest sense, invention can be defined as the creation of a product or introduction of a process for the first time. Innovation, on the other hand, occurs if someone improves on or makes a significant contribution to an existing product, process or service.'

Corpsey
12-04-2019, 09:30 AM
So what I mean is invention is necessary but innovation is where the action is.

luka
12-04-2019, 09:41 AM
Iím not neccasarily after it being winnable, just it being credible.

Itís not some ridiculous, ignorant or unfounded claim. Thereís a lot to suggest itís right.

I don't think it means anything tbh. I think it's empty. David Drak spends most of his time on Twitter making the same argument for Chief Keef. It's his signature move, the innovation thing. I think it's pointless. How do you measure the relative degree of innovation? How do you compare Migos with Pharoah Monch, Kool G Rap, Kool Keith, Chief Keef, Gucci? Can you really be bothered? Is it a fun argument?

luka
12-04-2019, 09:43 AM
You're right in the broadest and most important sense. That what Migos do is unique, perfected, exquisite and, despite huge sales, fame, popularity, weirdly overlooked. The fun part is to get across exactly what it is they do and how they do it. To bring a piece of machinery, a mechanism, a clockwork, into focus so people can see it for the first time and understand it.

luka
12-04-2019, 09:47 AM
To do that magic trick of, this thing you see with eyes glazed an unfocused as generic, now becomes moving universe in minature. You just have to learn to pay attention. That's the part worth doing. Most Innovative is an Unwinnable and most of all a tedious argument. The rap nerds would eviscerate you. It would never end. Ah, but Bobby OG first done such and such in '89.... Do you want that? No, fucking boring, who cares

Corpsey
12-04-2019, 09:50 AM
You're right in the broadest and most important sense. That what Migos do is unique, perfected, exquisite and, despite huge sales, fame, popularity, weirdly overlooked. The fun part is to get across exactly what it is they do and how they do it. To bring a piece of machinery, a mechanism, a clockwork, into focus so people can see it for the first time and understand it.

Why are they overlooked?

Is it because they are irritating beyond belief? :cool:

Corpsey
12-04-2019, 09:50 AM
This is what the innovation lens fails to perceive.

Look at that innovative way that chubby faced child is poking me in the neck while barking like a dog.

luka
12-04-2019, 09:53 AM
This is what the innovation lens fails to perceive.

Look at that innovative way that chubby faced child is poking me in the neck while barking like a dog.

Lol

Corpsey
12-04-2019, 10:02 AM
My prior record here predicts that eventually I'll get around to listening to Migos and will have to eat humble pie in triple time

luka
12-04-2019, 10:04 AM
Barty can make a good case for them. I like the way he hears it. I hear it differently after borrowing his ears. That's what I'm trying to say, that's valuable fun and worth doing.

Corpsey
12-04-2019, 10:07 AM
yeah I don't deny that

I think yoU need an initial burst of enthusiasm though to hang onto otherwise all the argument in the world is in one ear and out the other

Maybe next time I'm on acid (or more likely stoned) I'll give migos a blast

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 10:33 AM
Luke gets very panicked when you suggest that the sensibilities of the 90ís are redundant or things have moved on. He inverts his whole personality from cosmonaut Thames shaman to David Mitchell.
This happened with futurism thread, the multicultural thread and has now happened because I mentioned Rakim.

Iím sorry Luke. Letís put on some Curtis mayfield and forget the whole thing happened.

luka
12-04-2019, 10:41 AM
Its not about the 90s. You couldn't even win an argument that put migos head to head with keef. Its a losing proposition. A waste of your energy. It doesn't lead anywhere. Total dead end.

luka
12-04-2019, 10:44 AM
You haven't managed to convince a single human person. Because it's a nonsensical claim. I believe in the vision. I believe in the truth of it. You saw the migos swathed in beatific light and knew then that they were divine prophets from the future. That's gpod enough.

Corpsey
12-04-2019, 10:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWmG0ZsUAag

The alpha and the Emega

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 10:53 AM
I probably donít understand what youíre saying.

luka
12-04-2019, 10:58 AM
I've just started work. I just mean the strength of your arguments doesn't depend on who's the 'most' innovative, whatever that might mean. Soon you will be standing on top of the hill, king of the castle, but it'll be cos you taught people to listen to what is there. Think about what that argument would entail. Don't you think its tedious? History lessons. Cavils. Quibbles.

CrowleyHead
12-04-2019, 11:40 AM
Migos 2.0 is something v. further refined from Migos 1.0, but I'd definitely argue there were people who helped make that happen who get none of the credit in their circle.

I'm saying Migos are Goldie I guess. Which isn't an outright dismissal of what they refined but like, I'm someone who like Luke mentioned, cares about the minuta and particular individual quirks and what was 'brought to the table' by associated people AND I also care about things v geneolocially. If I could make big dumb rap family trees all day I'd have a blast but it's true, it ultimately leads to petty squabbling because people want to competitively regard information.

I like squabbling with Barty on this subject because it is something close to my heart, not to get melodramatic, that I've tried to describe and refine my arguments for numerous times BUT there's also an understanding that Barty's irreverent, he's not trying to shout anyone down.

Sorry if this reads more anxious than I intend to come across; early morning response.

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 12:08 PM
yeah, me and crowl weren't saying anything mutually exclusive before as far as i can tell. he was talking thematically and i was talking about rhythms and things like that.

CrowleyHead
12-04-2019, 12:14 PM
There's a lot of stuff in rhythm and cadence I hear that's developments of earlier things that are based on stylistic tics of preceding rappers. Trying to point that out without deep immersion is pointless tho for me, it's like how I can't do that with Road Rap either, you're yelling "LISTEN TO THE SIMILARITIES" to no avail that anyone will hear it (or acknowledge if they do). Barty's got a sense of rhythm and counting from his musical training, which mine's like, next to nil.

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 12:15 PM
I've just started work. I just mean the strength of your arguments doesn't depend on who's the 'most' innovative, whatever that might mean. Soon you will be standing on top of the hill, king of the castle, but it'll be cos you taught people to listen to what is there. Think about what that argument would entail. Don't you think its tedious? History lessons. Cavils. Quibbles.

i assume you mean "barty, if you publish something about migos in a proper outlet, don't say the rakim thing because lots of people will get fixated on that will distract from the more substantive things you're saying."

otherwise i can't see the fuss. i've endorsed race war on this forum, implied you were responsible for radicalising mohammad atta and misquoted a hadith in the context of reynolds liking rustie. a bold rhetorical flourish about rap shouldn't cause all this hullabaloo.

luka
12-04-2019, 01:29 PM
Migos 2.0 is something v. further refined from Migos 1.0, but I'd definitely argue there were people who helped make that happen who get none of the credit in their circle.

I'm saying Migos are Goldie I guess. Which isn't an outright dismissal of what they refined but like, I'm someone who like Luke mentioned, cares about the minuta and particular individual quirks and what was 'brought to the table' by associated people AND I also care about things v geneolocially. If I could make big dumb rap family trees all day I'd have a blast but it's true, it ultimately leads to petty squabbling because people want to competitively regard information.

I like squabbling with Barty on this subject because it is something close to my heart, not to get melodramatic, that I've tried to describe and refine my arguments for numerous times BUT there's also an understanding that Barty's irreverent, he's not trying to shout anyone down.

Sorry if this reads more anxious than I intend to come across; early morning response.

Im just trying to say this kinda stuff really.

Corpsey
12-04-2019, 01:32 PM
Barty's Migos/Road Rap piece is going to blow Blissblogger's UK garage piece out of the water.

Will be a bit like when Shawn Michael's mouthed 'I'm sorry' to Ric Flair before kicking his face off at Wrestlemania.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzwMUtLgo_Q

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 01:38 PM
yeah, think i probably got the wrong end of the stick at some point.

sadmanbarty
12-04-2019, 01:41 PM
Barty's Migos/Road Rap piece is going to blow Blissblogger's UK garage piece out of the water.



the drill one's done.

now i'm trying to do the migos one, but after having spent so long in drill world, it all the american stuff sounds annoying. i'm trying to muster the barty of a year ago while actually being 2019 corpsey being poked with sticks by a fat kid.