PDA

View Full Version : Jazz Inquest



sadmanbarty
10-10-2018, 11:24 AM
I used to call these type of threads 'X Autopsy', but Reynolds gave me an Oxbridge bollocking and told me to call them inquests.

You could argue a rough definition of Jazz being music that incorporates Jazz harmony, swing time and improvisation. Those individual components continue to be relevant in music, so why did Jazz die?

Elitism, too avant-garde for it’s own good (Café Oto- John Eden), dissolved by Fusion, J Dilla is Jazz, Miles Davis (the only Jazz innovator since the late-40’s) died, all genres die, no new ground to be covered, everything Kendrick Lamar touches turns to shit, improvisation in the age of sequencers, improvisation in the age of samplers, decline of African-American middle-class, commercial unviability, Chris Dave is God

Corpsey
10-10-2018, 12:55 PM
Oxford bollocking = vampire weekend Sleaford mods collaboration

john eden
10-10-2018, 01:09 PM
Louis Moholo-Moholo was at Cafe OTO on Monday with the lad who is on the front cover of The Wire this month and it was a pretty accessible jazz gig I'd say.

With some free-ish flourishes on the sax admittedly, but nothing that would be out of place on a Blue Note album from the late 50s.

Amazing night, in fact.

There is an argument that polarity has meant that the genre is too bifurcated to be cohesive any more. It's not healthy if you have avant garde scraping one on hand and polite lounge/lift music on the other with nothing in between.

thirdform
10-10-2018, 02:42 PM
roscoe mitchell, is all.

sadmanbarty
10-10-2018, 06:00 PM
roscoe mitchell, is all.

that's not all. please explain.

sadmanbarty
10-10-2018, 06:30 PM
It's not healthy if you have avant garde scraping one on hand and polite lounge/lift music on the other with nothing in between.

how/why did this happen?

blissblogger
10-10-2018, 07:02 PM
I think all genres or movements in music have finite resources - they use them up and have nowhere else to go by a certain point

The venerable jazz critic Gary Giddins worked out some kind of schematic to describe the evolution of the genre, in terms of different phases. It was quite persuasive and you could map it onto rock, onto techno-house-rave etc.

I'll see if I can dig it up

blissblogger
10-10-2018, 07:09 PM
ah I blogged about the Giddins schema on my Retromania blog a while back:

Truth is, genres generally are finite, in the sense of having a range of resources that they burn through and exhaust. Then you get a heritage version of the genre: musicians and custodians who resemble conservationists husbanding a nature preserve, protecting vulnerable species that would otherwise go extinct. Underground rap is one example of this syndrome [albeit slightly different: this is a preserve for a fetishised earlier phase - boom bap, breaks, samples - of a genre that is still very much alive and going places (traplanta etc) just in forms that the undie-rapper doesn't accept or respect] So is the neo-classical school in jazz. Unlike undie rap, it has institutional support that keeps the legacy on life support, as with Lincoln Center's subsidizing of Wynton Marsalis's orchestra.

Legendary jazz critic Gary Giddins came up with a four-phase schema for the life cycles of musical genres. In his impishly titled essay "How Come Jazz Isn't Dead?" he outlined a succession of stages.

"Native" is the emergent phase, when the music is primarily tied to a community.

"Sovereign" is when the music dominates mainstream popular culture.

"Recessionary" is when it is ousted from center stage (in jazz's case, by rock'n'roll) but continues to have a strong presence in the culture. It goes through a multitude of artistic developments and mutations as it interacts with other forms of music and even achieves a prestige it never had before when it was popular dance music.

"Classical", the final and present stage of jazz, is when "even the most adventurous young musicians are weighed down by the massive accomplishments of the past." Many are "content to parrot the voices of the masters". The genre isn't dead exactly, but has become a "stately, classical art", a "Cultural Treasure".

My own Giddins-style schema would be:

-- emergent / (raw, naïve, effortlessly and unconsciously innovative) ROCK'N'ROLL

-- mature (selfconsciously innovative, with overt ideology of progression etc) ROCK

-- outer extremes (purism/intensification/back to basics reductionism) OR fusion/maximalism (looking outside itself) (this is still a modernist phase, but starting to unravel, decay, undermine itself) PROG/PUNK/POSTPUNK / POST-ROCK

-- postmodernism/retro/"museal" -- pastiche, revivalism, parody, recombinant, historicism - INDIE / ALTERNATIVE / BRITPOP / HYPNAGOGIC / FREAK FOLK / ETC

blissblogger
10-10-2018, 07:11 PM
i don't know where non-idiomatic improv fits into the Giddins scheme

perhaps he would consider it so far from the source that it has become its own tradition

and i think that's what Derek Bailey thought - that it had nothing to do with the jazz tradition anymore

even though most of its pioneers had started out playing jazz

a conservative / conservationist like Stanley Crouch & Wynton M would say that improv doesn't have blues feeling or swing and ergo isn't jazz

plus they're not wearing nice suits and ties, but scruffy jumpers

sadmanbarty
10-10-2018, 07:12 PM
1) Emerges from other traditions

A new music begins to emerge from one or more other traditions by way of fusion or outright innovation. Often, the music that comes out of this stage is hard to distinguish from the music that came before.

2) Solidifies as a genre, singularly functional

The music at this stage becomes easier to distinguish from the music that preceded it. It is intent on serving a singular social purpose and as such is at its most accessible.

3) Genre evolution and artistic exploration

The music begins to evolve, and artists start to explore musically, even at the risk of detracting from its previous social purpose.

4) Peak abrasiveness, singular musical vision

The music is at its harshest and most inaccessible. This often entails the music becoming very narrowly focused on a single characteristic or idea.

5) Self-conscious eclecticism, drawing in foreign elements

Though the music is always drawing from other music, at this stage it is doing so self-consciously and to a much larger extent. Eventually, so many elements are drawn in that it becomes hard to say if the music is still of the same tradition as stages 1-4. At this stage the music may return to stage 1, either because the macro-genre starts another cycle or because a new macro-genre has been pioneered.

,

blissblogger
10-10-2018, 07:36 PM
"Assuming some constraints on the definition of the form, the amount of innovation that can be done within that form is finite. Most of it will come early and fast, then decline after the peak." - https://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/09/23/the-hubbert-peak-theory-of-rock-or-why-were-all-out-of-good-songs/

blissblogger
10-10-2018, 07:42 PM
senescence or at least the autumnal phase of a music seems to come when it's original / originating audience moves on to something else

first step in jazz decline - when the black popular audience moves on to R&B

terminal stage in jazz decline? when the musician class itself is no longer majority black

Stanley Crouch grapples with this in one of his books - being both conservative and optimistic he tries to see the fact that some of the best (meaning in his terms, the most faithful to original principles) players of contemporary jazz are Italian or Norwegian as a sign of the music's continued vitality

a sociologist or anthropologist, on the other hand, would probably wonder how vital a music could really be if it's drifted loose of the population that birthed it

john eden
10-10-2018, 07:54 PM
I think with improv there is an argument that it’s jazz + post war European avant garde and therefore a new thing. I mean something like The Necks is nothing like jazz.

We can argue whether improv is dead too but first we’d need to get into whether it’s really a genre or a technique or both. (See also: Dub).

john eden
10-10-2018, 07:55 PM
Be interested to know what Giddins means by community also.

sadmanbarty
10-10-2018, 08:03 PM
first step in jazz decline - when the black popular audience moves on to R&B

i might be a bit off with the timing, but this was also probably the stage when jazz was at it's most innovative.

blissblogger
10-10-2018, 08:25 PM
i might be a bit off with the timing, but this was also probably the stage when jazz was at it's most innovative.

well that's a moot point innit - it's innovative in a certain sense where the assumption is that innovation = difficulty, harshness, emotional opacity, extremism

but you could argue that there is nothing more innovative than the initial birthing of a new form of music

is Louis Armstrong really less innovative than Charlie Parker or Ornette Coleman?


with that particular sense of innovative (challenging, confrontational etc), you are dead right - bebop / free etc = the point when jazz is peaking artistically, it's following its logic right out there, where it seems to want to go (c.f. the feeling among classical composers around end 19th / start 20th C that the music had some internal drive in it pushing towards atonality, and that they had to go along with that)

and of necessity that is the point at which jazz's functionality (as dance music) fades away, it becomes a head music - contemplative

blissblogger
10-10-2018, 08:31 PM
Genres often reach the point where the only way forward involves the music becoming increasingly difficult and unpleasant, to the point where the cutting edge is actively mutilating and wrecking whatever was appealing about the music in the first place.

That explains the neoclassical approach, whether it's Wynton Marsalis, or in rock figures like Jack White and The Black Keys. They are going back to a moment when the music grooved or swung.

Often there's an impulse to dress the part - Marsalis with his sharp suit, White et al dressing like Leon Russell or somebody of that ilk.

An earlier example of the syndrome is the trad jazz people in Fifties UK, going back to New Orleans 1920s style. They wanted a high-energy dance music and bebop wasn't that, and the swing bands were too genteel and mild.

HMGovt
10-10-2018, 08:59 PM
Oxford bollocking = vampire weekend Sleaford mods collaboration

What happened to them? Either of 'em.

thirdform
10-10-2018, 09:21 PM
that's not all. please explain.

what do you want me to say? was big in the loft jazz scene of the 70s, and is still putting out great stuff, check the session he did with Kikanju Baku called conversations II. some very speech rhythm drumming from Baku on that.

thirdform
10-10-2018, 09:26 PM
well that's a moot point innit - it's innovative in a certain sense where the assumption is that innovation = difficulty, harshness, emotional opacity, extremism

but you could argue that there is nothing more innovative than the initial birthing of a new form of music

is Louis Armstrong really less innovative than Charlie Parker or Ornette Coleman?


with that particular sense of innovative (challenging, confrontational etc), you are dead right - bebop / free etc = the point when jazz is peaking artistically, it's following its logic right out there, where it seems to want to go (c.f. the feeling among classical composers around end 19th / start 20th C that the music had some internal drive in it pushing towards atonality, and that they had to go along with that)

and of necessity that is the point at which jazz's functionality (as dance music) fades away, it becomes a head music - contemplative

you can dance to free jazz. not so much for Euro free improv.

blissblogger
10-10-2018, 10:38 PM
you can dance to free jazz. not so much for Euro free improv.

Did people really dance to free jazz?

It seems more like an inward, cerebral kind of music - as fierce and blasting as it could be, and physically strenuous for its players

I wonder if people danced to fusion? That was jazz embracing - and trying to siphon renewed currency and popular appeal from - dance forms of the time such as funk and disco

But it's hard to picture people cutting a rug to Weather Report or Herbie Hancock, let alone Miles in On The Corner onwards mode.

As fantastic as the grooves and the drumming etc are in a lot of that music

thirdform
10-10-2018, 10:42 PM
Did people really dance to free jazz?

It seems more like an inward, cerebral kind of music - as fierce and blasting as it could be, and physically strenuous for its players

I wonder if people danced to fusion? That was jazz embracing - and trying to siphon renewed currency and popular appeal from - dance forms of the time such as funk and disco

But it's hard to picture people cutting a rug to Weather Report or Herbie Hancock, let alone Miles in On The Corner onwards mode.

As fantastic as the grooves and the drumming etc are in a lot of that music

yeh, jazz funk and rare groove was huge in london. according to greg wilson the top dogs in that scene didn't want to play the electro tunes coming out from 82 into 83!

thirdform
10-10-2018, 10:43 PM
although more roy ayers donald byrd kinda vibes.

pattycakes_
10-10-2018, 11:00 PM
Gilles Petersonn definitely had people dancing to some far out shit in the 80s. There's a podcast of him talking to one of his main dj peers from back then (maybe snowboy) and they're talking about how it got to the point where there were no women dancing and just a few really serious heads and how this was a bad thing. Kinda wish I could hear recordings.

Theo Parrish also plays some heavy fusion and definitely gets people moving with it. He used to do it all the time at plastic people.

sadmanbarty
10-10-2018, 11:35 PM
well that's a moot point innit - it's innovative in a certain sense where the assumption is that innovation = difficulty, harshness, emotional opacity, extremism

i was talking about the 10 years from roughly 1955-65 where you get hard bop/soul jazz, modal jazz and then (as you mention) free jazz being birthed.

hard bop and soul jazz were very much a populist undertakings.

modal jazz, despite it's conception in dry music theory, produced the best selling jazz album of all time. it went on to influence (or at the very least pre-empt) ragga/acid rock, psychadelic folk and minimalist classical music.

sadmanbarty
10-10-2018, 11:39 PM
i was talking about the 10 years from roughly 1955-65 .

a bit of an arbitrary timeline that. push it to 1970 and you get the emergence of spiritual jazz, fusion and jazz funk.

sadmanbarty
10-10-2018, 11:42 PM
modal jazz, despite it's conception in dry music theory, produced the best selling jazz album of all time. it went on to influence (or at the very least pre-empt) ragga/acid rock, psychadelic folk and minimalist classical music.

and funk by way of james brown's 'cold sweat' lifting heavily from 'so what'

CrowleyHead
11-10-2018, 12:26 AM
There's several points of dissolution in Jazz as such a singular moment but easily the first and most important is the beginning of Bebop which both legitimizes Jazz musically and also defeats itself.

Bebop is incredibly important because it frees Jazz from the dancefloor and prevents Jazz from being 'dance music'. Jazz was and remained dance music even after the arrival of bebop, because obviously your Armstrongs, Calloways, Basies, etc. still remained but as a result the music that succeeded in it's wake was more redundant and straight-forward; one could argue that R&B/Rock n' Roll/whatever other titles were a 'dumbing down' but I think if anything they were done with a sense of functionality.

In another thread somebody invoked the infamous Adorno criticism of jazz and my interpretation is that he seized on it as a rejection of its obvious sense of Utility and Function. That the music was always going to be the soundtrack of dance-halls and meant to service people having a celebration, not be recognized for itself like so called Art Music was done in Europe. You could argue this role would later be played by discoteque musicians or DJs and we know that line is much more easy to blur but certainly there's a logic that this music positioned itself in a devalued state. It kind of works in opposition to the Eno/Satie theorem that music that serves an environment in functionality for a greater hosting purpose is good to become art music that's celebrated for it's development and virtuosity, but it's an inevitable aspect of such a competitive musician culture and when quality of the musicality becomes a selling point to the connoisseur.

(Luka's gonna see this and bitch about "fucking Marxism again!" but like, that's the thing, it isn't like say Gospel where it's an inner community competitive circuit, it becomes the fact that people are going to Hire The Best Musician, seek The Best Solos, the whole emergence of Down Beat critic culture, these external forces beyond just the music for it's own sake both defeat the mere functionality and also introduce their own sort of aggendaist elitism)

CrowleyHead
11-10-2018, 12:29 AM
Herbie Hancock

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UbkqE4fpvdI" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

IDK.

blissblogger
11-10-2018, 12:53 AM
yeah the Headhunters sound funky as fuck

however - scanning through a bunch of live clips of fusion bands playing in the first half of the 70s, hoping for a cut away to the audience - you see the audience at this Weather Report concert determinedly staying sat in their seats, even though Jaco & Co are cooking


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRq5zbDOSeI

so i think it was probably received - despite the furious funk energy of the grooves - in the same way that prog rock was (which could also be rhythmically dynamic and near-funky) ie as head music

i'm talking about fusion, rather than jazz-funk which was more or less a side-stream to disco

blissblogger
11-10-2018, 01:01 AM
the very fact that jazz-rock / fusion was conceived and promoted as music for concert halls, rather than clubs or ball rooms (as i think it would have been with the swing bands) shows something about jazz's evolution to that point i.e. away from the original audience and its original function

more white people determinedly sitting on their asses while Weather Report smoke!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwywj2y9s8g

i don't know enough about hard bop, but i find it hard to imagine it had the mass black audience that was looking to go out and have a good time at the weekend - not at a time when there was things like Louis Jordan or Ray Charles on offer

blissblogger
11-10-2018, 01:06 AM
i think Weather Report and the others definitely wanted a dancing audience and the black popular audience - and a young audience too

this is them virtually going disco (the critics hated it, i love it)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jng_yZUc4F0

blissblogger
11-10-2018, 05:47 PM
coincidentally a bloke i know just sent me this video of jazz funk fans seriously getting down in Brixton in 1978


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zPmQ8KOevY

Bang Diddley
12-10-2018, 11:24 AM
Did people really dance to free jazz?

It seems more like an inward, cerebral kind of music - as fierce and blasting as it could be, and physically strenuous for its players

I wonder if people danced to fusion? That was jazz embracing - and trying to siphon renewed currency and popular appeal from - dance forms of the time such as funk and disco

But it's hard to picture people cutting a rug to Weather Report or Herbie Hancock, let alone Miles in On The Corner onwards mode.

As fantastic as the grooves and the drumming etc are in a lot of that music

The was a strong jazz dance scene, with crews from all over the UK competing hard. Brothers In Jazz (Leeds), Foot Patrol (MCR), IDJ (London) plus many others I can't remember.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHPQ_796ezE

This clip shows BIJ but not the crew they were dancing against the full session is on Youtube somewhere.

Bang Diddley
12-10-2018, 11:26 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-ADJBI1EPY

Bang Diddley
12-10-2018, 11:28 AM
Snowboy wrote a book on UK Jazz Dance.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/JAZZ-FUNK-FUSION-ACID-HISTORY/dp/1438973608

craner
16-10-2018, 09:10 PM
i think Weather Report and the others definitely wanted a dancing audience and the black popular audience - and a young audience too

this is them virtually going disco (the critics hated it, i love it)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jng_yZUc4F0

This sounds exactly like Drexciya.

Weird how ‘rare groove’ and ‘jazz funk’ sounded so toxic in the 90s and yet now we are all turning into Giles Peterson and Kirk Degiorgio

craner
16-10-2018, 09:12 PM
Latter being the foundation post of ‘Blissblog’ therefore our blogosphere, therefore Dissensus, therefore this.

craner
16-10-2018, 09:13 PM
We love you SR.

UFO over easy
16-10-2018, 10:09 PM
This sounds exactly like Drexciya.

Weird how ‘rare groove’ and ‘jazz funk’ sounded so toxic in the 90s and yet now we are all turning into Giles Peterson and Kirk Degiorgio

there's a detroit connection - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aapxw8_NHjo

hidden agenda sampled it for a metalheadz record too

blissblogger
16-10-2018, 10:09 PM
Well, it's not some late-blooming perversity on my part, or getting soft and accepting in old age.

Got into that Weather Report album in the mid-Eighties when I moved to London for the first time and the friends whose West Norwood flat I stayed in had it on cassette.

Particularly dug "River People" and also "The Elders" - this really haunting Wayne Shorter tune.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUwXFRNTcio

Later on got a bunch of Weather Report LPs from Music and Tape Exchange.

There was even then a certain kitsch appeal to the florid artwork. And florid song titles. But mostly it just sounded great

Musically I could probably find some commonality with Gilles and Kirk - it's more the whole sweep of it as a credo and a set of assumptions / biases. A view of history and where music goes wrong, the righteous path etc - that's what doesn't sit well with me.

But he's a good bloke Kirk actually. Since that blog-launching fiery exchange I've had a few pleasant chats with him over the years.

He does bang the "it all comes from black music, ALL of it," drum a bit stridently. There was some debate in which he was involved a few years back - it may have spilled onto the pages of Dissensus actually, via Zhao - about how Kraftwerk were deeply influenced by the Isley Brothers. I thought this was a silly claim. for sure, like anyone with any taste, Kraftwerk may have liked some Isley Bros tunes, the Motown stuff or the later "That Lady" guitartastic stuff. But to say that this would have been a formative thing in their music, more so than the Beach Boys and Schubert and minimalism and the Velvets - seems a bit like daft anti-Eurocentric overcompensation.

He's a relative of Marc Bolan's, Kirk, would you believe?

blissblogger
16-10-2018, 10:12 PM
I draw the line at acid jazz though. I can't go for that.

Woebot can though. He wrote a whole piece on his blog about having had an acid jazz phase. I was quite taken aback!

craner
16-10-2018, 10:39 PM
I think we can all draw a line at Acid Jazz which was lame for all time.

But have you yet got over your Whitney-phobia? Because the rest of us have.

thirdform
16-10-2018, 11:09 PM
This sounds exactly like Drexciya.

Weird how ‘rare groove’ and ‘jazz funk’ sounded so toxic in the 90s and yet now we are all turning into Giles Peterson and Kirk Degiorgio

nah, it was just you whiteboys being contrary for the sake of it.

Kirk is a scholar and a gentleman but there is one thing missing in his taste, I agree with matthew/woebot. terror is necessary in music.

I don't know about Gilles Peterson tho so I won't comment.

thirdform
16-10-2018, 11:15 PM
Well, it's not some late-blooming perversity on my part, or getting soft and accepting in old age.

Got into that Weather Report album in the mid-Eighties when I moved to London for the first time and the friends whose West Norwood flat I stayed in had it on cassette.

Particularly dug "River People" and also "The Elders" - this really haunting Wayne Shorter tune.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUwXFRNTcio

Later on got a bunch of Weather Report LPs from Music and Tape Exchange.

There was even then a certain kitsch appeal to the florid artwork. And florid song titles. But mostly it just sounded great

Musically I could probably find some commonality with Gilles and Kirk - it's more the whole sweep of it as a credo and a set of assumptions / biases. A view of history and where music goes wrong, the righteous path etc - that's what doesn't sit well with me.

But he's a good bloke Kirk actually. Since that blog-launching fiery exchange I've had a few pleasant chats with him over the years.

He does bang the "it all comes from black music, ALL of it," drum a bit stridently. There was some debate in which he was involved a few years back - it may have spilled onto the pages of Dissensus actually, via Zhao - about how Kraftwerk were deeply influenced by the Isley Brothers. I thought this was a silly claim. for sure, like anyone with any taste, Kraftwerk may have liked some Isley Bros tunes, the Motown stuff or the later "That Lady" guitartastic stuff. But to say that this would have been a formative thing in their music, more so than the Beach Boys and Schubert and minimalism and the Velvets - seems a bit like daft anti-Eurocentric overcompensation.

He's a relative of Marc Bolan's, Kirk, would you believe?

I saw zhao defending the USSR in a marxist group I was in the other day lol. thought who was this tankie and why do i have a mutual with him and then saw his soundcloud/mixclouds.

As for kraftwerk, it would be strange to think they weren't influenced by James Brown.

blissblogger
16-10-2018, 11:18 PM
no i still don't like Whitney (apart from "it's not all alright, but it's okay" or whatever it's called - the one sanctified by the UK garage massive)

don't like Mariah either

it is actually hip now to think of both of them as proper artists of stature

also Sade - she featured high in the Pitchfork list of great albums of the Eighties.

thirdform
16-10-2018, 11:24 PM
He does bang the "it all comes from black music, ALL of it," drum a bit stridently.



yeah but how many white rockists do you get defending revolting music like the beatles or *despairing fucking hell, post-ummagumma floyd.*

And even when they defend good shit like killing joke or bauhaus its politic to ignore their disco/funk/dub influences.

this is why i like reading you on the more rock music stuff, actually. bbigups.

thirdform
16-10-2018, 11:31 PM
like thats sort of the point, post-punk only owed to *punk rock* what it did dialectically, not linearly.

version
16-10-2018, 11:36 PM
it is actually hip now to think of both of them as proper artists of stature


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S7olzuojGY

blissblogger
16-10-2018, 11:40 PM
I can't really hear the James Brown in Kraftwerk to be honest

it seems like there should be some connection - "Sex Machine" / "Man Machine"

but i think they found their way to a similar machinic aesthetic by different routes

thirdform
16-10-2018, 11:50 PM
well euro-american minimalism also owed to gamelan and nubian oud records like hamza el din waterwheel, ghanaian drumming, etc.

But ultimately this is conjecture right. we can go round and round in circles but is there really a point speculating?

thirdform
17-10-2018, 12:03 AM
the internet means you can make connections that might not have been there though in different cultural contexts. I guess I'd have to read a lot of kw interviews to see what they were actually listening to. but then there's a say what the interviewers want to here thing (every artist does this to an extent.)

So yeah, i personally do here a James Brown connection but i don't want to declare it to be definitive.

pattycakes_
17-10-2018, 01:43 PM
kind of like the post dubstep convo on here recently i think jazz suffered from gentrification. it got way too academic. the originators moved on, because that's what they do and what's left behind is mostly a bunch of people trying to keep their idea of the pure form alive. a few forays here and there into modernising but i've yet to hear anything substantial from the last 15 years. jazz jam sessions all over the world are full of the same old standards. the recording artists who are supposedly keeping it new and exciting are playing it tame and politely. guys like Avishai Cohen are just made for the stages of Montreaux. Robert Glasper sends me to sleep. don't even get me started on Kamasi Washington. Chris Dave/Chris Corsano spawned a million wack assed experimental drummers who find it hard to keep a groove going for more than 12 seconds. and they like to cellotape the contents of their dads tool shed to their kits. it's all just a bit fucking lame.