Mancunian Pre/Post Acid House Continuum.

Woebot

Woebot

Well-known member
Was thing the other day that with hindsight the difference between the pre-Acid House wave of Manchester acts:

• Cabaret Voltaire (http://www.brainwashed.com/cv/)
• Biting Tongues (http://www.ltmpub.freeserve.co.uk/btonguesbio.html)

and the post Acid-House

• Sweet Exorcist
• 808 State
• A Guy Called Gerald

is really slight.

Partly I suppose a reflection made clearer by the passing of time. Partly because the music is quite a s similar as it is. Partly because exactly the same members were involved. Were members of A Certain Ratio or any other of those bands involved in Acid House?
 
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dominic

Beast of Burden
WOEBOT said:
Were members of A Certain Ratio or any other of those bands involved in Acid House?
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simon topping, who was in the original ACR line up, went on to form T-Coy w/ Mike Pickering

Mike Pickering -- a Northern Soul dj btw -- formed both Quando Quango in the early 80s (check the dance mix of "Love Tempo" for a brilliant track years ahead of its time) and then in '88 T-coy w/ simon topping and then even later M-People

graham massey was in biting tongues pre-acid house and then 808 state during and after
 
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labrat

hot on the heels of love
there's a great inteview with Graham Massey on the Milk Factory website about just this topic (dunno how to do linx)
 
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dominic

Beast of Burden
didn't you (woebot) suggest way back that somebody needs to write a book on the many paths taken into acid house/early uk house???

this is the question that endlessly fascinates me -- i.e, all these roads leading to rome

(1) post-punk and industrial acts (cabaret voltaire & sweet exorcist; 400 blows & moody boys; andy weatherall; omni trio)

(2) the northern soul angle

(3) JA soundsystem (ragga twins, ital rockers)

(4) UK hip hoppers (shut up and dance, mickey finn, dj hype, 4hero)

(5) new romantics (boy george, lots of brighton club people came out of new romantic scene)

(6) indie rock (primal scream)
 
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dominic

Beast of Burden
not to be a nit-picker, but not everything north of watford is from manchester!

cabaret voltaire/sweet exorcist, human league, ital rockers, unique 3 = sheffield/bradford/leeds
 
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blissblogger

Well-known member
let's not forget sheffield boys Chakk

i think one or some of them were involved with Krush, whose "House Arrest" (groan) might actually have been the first homegrown UK house hit -- #3 at the very end of 1987. that would have pipped S Express to the post i think.
 
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Dubquixote

Submariner
dominic said:
(3) JA soundsystem (ragga twins, ital rockers)
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Particularly interested in this path. That "Rocker's Anthem" or whatever it's called by Ital Rockers is really unlike anything else I've heard in its synthesis of digidub and techno/house. And the JA soundsystem culture bringing bass pressure to bare on house seems like a weighty development. Any other recommendations along this trajectory?
 
Landfill Elektronikz

Landfill Elektronikz

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blissblogger said:
let's not forget sheffield boys Chakk

i think one or some of them were involved with Krush, whose "House Arrest" (groan) might actually have been the first homegrown UK house hit -- #3 at the very end of 1987. that would have pipped S Express to the post i think.
Click to expand...

Robert Gordon and Mark Brydon were part of the Chakk thing too, weren't they? Their Fon studio was built with money gained from a Chakk record label advance. They did a lot of remix/production work with the Cabs and Sweet Exorcist ('Test Four' is probably the definative mix), and Gordon's Forgemasters project was born at Fon. Between them and Unique 3 in Leeds you get the true Bleep originators.

Although Manchester spawned AGCG and 808 State, most groups from there were basicallly indie bands dabbling in House - it's the Leeds/Sheffield axis that was truly forging ahead...
 
Landfill Elektronikz

Landfill Elektronikz

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WOEBOT said:
Were members of A Certain Ratio or any other of those bands involved in Acid House?
Click to expand...

ACR's 1990 album "ACR:MCR" was very much influenced by House. Haven't heard it for years, but I remember it combined traditional song writing craft with 808 beats and synths. Seemed a perfectly logical move at the time...
 
Landfill Elektronikz

Landfill Elektronikz

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One last point - Rephlex's 'Prebuild' collection of early demos by 808 State and AGCG provides a near perfect snapshot of the transition from pre to post Acid. Here's what I wrote about it back in January:

"Prebuild" tracks like "Ride" seem like an almost too perfect example of Massey's white avant-funk sensibilities colliding with Simpson's black electro-soul background. The rudimentary slap bass seems typical of the type of experimental funk that had been brewing in the North from acts like A Certain Ratio, Hula and Cabaret Voltaire. Factor in Gerald's tuff latin-flavoured drum patterns for a curious hybrid of street 'authenticity' and artschool appropriation. Elsewhere, the lo-fi, tape-hiss encrusted recordings like "Johnny Cab", featuring Massey's thin, piercing synth-pop melodies could almost be an early Human League demo from ten years earlier, until Gerald's pumping House beat kicks-in to remind us that this is actually 1988. "Cosacosa" starts out as an early draft of "Flow Coma", seemingly captured at the moment of creation on a portable cassette deck; the layer of muddied tape compression strangely adding an extra element of authenticity and historical importance.

Perhaps best of all is the final 15-minute live freakout called "Thermo Kings", which was actually the first thing they ever recorded together. An Acidic odyssey, it's like a UK version of "Let's Go" the seminal meeting of minds that occurred when Juan Atkins, Derrick May and Kevin Saunderson first recorded together (as X-Ray) with an extended (and apparently drunken) jam that cemented their partnership as the Holy Trinity of Detroit Techno. God, I wish I'd been there to see it happen! As a document of their transition from Indie/Funk to House/Techno, "Prebuild" is unparalleled. In fact, the very existence of 808 State at that time was unparalleled. I can't think of any other act to emerge from the late '80s 'Madchester' scene that was truly innovating, so totally in the now, without recourse to traditional rock/pop sensibilities.
 
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DigitalDjigit

Honky Tonk Woman
Dubquixote said:
Particularly interested in this path. That "Rocker's Anthem" or whatever it's called by Ital Rockers is really unlike anything else I've heard in its synthesis of digidub and techno/house. And the JA soundsystem culture bringing bass pressure to bare on house seems like a weighty development. Any other recommendations along this trajectory?
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I remember there being a track "Mendoza - Get Raw" and it has a really big bassline. Can't find any info/soundclips so can't really check if it fits here. another that would fit is Depth Charge on Vinyl Solution label. Renegade Soundwave somewhat obviously. Nightmares on Wax? Rhythmatic? The last two are guesses. Nightmares on Wax has that deep deep bass and Rhythmatic's LP (have it for sale if anyone's interested btw) was pretty ragga influenced but I can't tell if that came later as JA stuff began infiltrating rave deeper.
 
Woebot

Woebot

Well-known member
dominic said:
not to be a nit-picker, but not everything north of watford is from manchester!
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oh yeah! woops!

Are Biting Tongues in fact any good???
 
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AshRa

Well-known member
Dubquixote said:
Particularly interested in this path. That "Rocker's Anthem" or whatever it's called by Ital Rockers is really unlike anything else I've heard in its synthesis of digidub and techno/house. And the JA soundsystem culture bringing bass pressure to bare on house seems like a weighty development. Any other recommendations along this trajectory?
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Bobby Konders? Or are we just talking Northeners?
 
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Dubquixote

Submariner
Good call on Konders. I only recently learned that he had a long history of involvement with the early NY house scene. I knew him only in his current guise as dancehall reggae don. The recent collection of his early house productions is interesting for applying some of reggae's sonic template to house in the mid 80's.

Just yesterday I came upon this Konders mix from 1989 on WBLS in New York (which is mostly a Carribbean music station so it's interesting to see that house was getting played there back in the day):
http://www.dhpmixes.com/mixes/BobbyKondersWBLS12-30-89.mp3

ps. look for the sets from Knuckles, Levan, Farley, Humphries, and others here ;)
 
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