Silverdollar on Grime DJs

thanks matt, glad you enjoyed it!

yeah i thought that there might be some friction within the rinse, er, 'fam', now that Mac 10's on there. has he had any of the nasty MCs on yet tho? that could get pretty tense.

OTM about Mac 10. after getting into Roll Deep, Nasty's sets were what really REALLY made me fall in love with grime. also, love the last few lines on Scholar

it's wicked to see this written about grime DJs, but one of the things that was such a breath of fresh air when grime came along was the lack of obsession about mixing.

mixing is so 90s dance music, spotty whiteboys watching sasha's every muscle twitch just so they can tell if one record is playing... or two. bitter wannabe DJs standing on the dancefloor waiting to tut if a high hat goes out of place.

mixing as the sole musical focus is so tediously anal "i... must... fit... this... drum ... beat... over... this... remarkably similar... drum beat....... lookatmeveryonei'mspecial!!!!!"

most of all dance music mixing is ridiculous because its an artform devoted to an event when achieved you can't even notice it. is it two tracks or one? is it a drum machine beat or a 'perfect mix?'

arrrgh!

Blackdown OTM!!!

although the Grime selectors are different praps cos they're comining more from a juggling dancehall thing right, slap it on for a minute, rip it off and slap on another

or maybe even slight return of hardcore junglizm era more sloppy choppy excitingly random style djing

I used to mix garage. I juggle Grime now.

And regarding the point about Wiley not wanting Mac 10 on Rinse..... he was the one who was telling management he HAD TO come on when I was leaving.

Blackdown said:

most of all dance music mixing is ridiculous because its an artform devoted to an event when achieved you can't even notice it. is it two tracks or one? is it a drum machine beat or a 'perfect mix?'

arrrgh!

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Surely that's just house mixing, though?

That's why techno dj's (Dave Clarke, Technasia, Claude Young, etc) are so much more exciting than house ones, because they really work the music (chops, cuts, spinbacks, scratches, etc) and don't just smoothly segue from one track to another.

Blackdown said:

most of all dance music mixing is ridiculous because its an artform devoted to an event when achieved you can't even notice it. is it two tracks or one? is it a drum machine beat or a 'perfect mix?'
arrrgh!

Click to expand...

isnt that the whole point? that its seamless and unnoticeable?!

...and aren't the only people overly concerned about spotting the switch from one track to the next the trainspotters, rather than the people locked into the beat and dancing (i.e. the reason the dj's playing music in the first place)?

Originally Posted by hint
...and aren't the only people overly concerned about spotting the switch from one track to the next the trainspotters, rather than the people locked into the beat and dancing (i.e. the reason the dj's playing music in the first place)?

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I agree, and yet this is just what's so ridiculous about trainspotters and dj-worship. If the point of mixing (in more traditional house/trance formats especially) is to provide a seamless neverending experience, then those who are sitting there trying to notice the slightest mistake are actually simultaneously listening the closest and missing the entire point. Why try to notice the transitions when the best transitions are meant not to be noticed?

That being said it does seem like Grime DJs, like many Hip-Hop and Dancehall DJs, are doing something that has no intention of being invisible. It is also often much more interesting and creative because of this. But, look at Hip-hop turntablists, isn't there just as much potential here for obsessing over the DJ's skills to the detriment of everything else in this more frenetic style.

the people that notice it are DJs though most likely, or aspiring DJs, of course theyre gonna be trainspotters.

That article is big.

Logan Sama said:

And regarding the point about Wiley not wanting Mac 10 on Rinse..... he was the one who was telling management he HAD TO come on when I was leaving.

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wiley is a big boy

the other alternative -- as against seamless mixing and ruff-cut mixing -- is simply to play the damn records all the way through or close to all the way through -- and let the music speak for itself

but as b/w seamless mixing and ruff cut, i agree with the opinion on this thread that ruffcut is the way to go

and i also think ruffcut mixing particularly well suited to ragga, grime, the ruffer end of jungle, hip hip, etc

just now read silverdollar's blog piece -- i'll echo the consensus opinion on this one -- very interesting read

Great piece Simon!

One thing about mixing though: it's a bit unfair to simply reduce DJing styles to the choice between grime juggling and being Sasha. Even grime DJing *sounds like* it requires a fair amount of skill to be done well: some sudden track transitions will sound really jarring and awkward and sloppily done, whereas others (although just as sudden and unexpected and counter-intuitive) will sound totally awesome and inspired, the switch making the music seem better than it would have been in isolation (this is true of dancehall DJs too).

And there is an entire world of great DJ mixing that is nothing like the Sasha/Digweed style. As a general rule the best part of any jungle or 2-step garage mix was almost always the moment when the beats and sounds of one track would suddenly become caught up and enmeshed in those of the next. One of my absolute favourite moments in music ever is on Grooverider's 'Hardstep Selection Vol II' mix from 94 or 95 when the marching-band rattles of FBD Project's "She's So" have to duke it out with the lashing cobra beats of Dillinja's "The Angels Fell" - it's just breathtaking.

And it's not just jungle/garage vs house/techno either - someone like Herbert is fantastically adept at merging tracks in ways that make each component sound more bizarre and compelling in the so-wrong-it's-right dept.

All of which is not to say that grime's approach is somehow inferior, but considering the music it arose out of (ardkore --> jungle --> garage --->) and the liberal and dynamic approaches to DJing all those styles displayed, it was hardly some necessary corrective either.

I think what appeals to me about grime mixing, or dubstep mixing, is how sparse some of the music is.. and when it does link up (if even for a few moments), the patterns interact and bounce off each other as a new beast entirely.. the kick from one record might fill the space where there was none before or an extra handclap falls early making the beat sound double time... and suddenly the original beat is gone and the pressure drops back in... long blends like this can work great but as most people (and simon) have said (of mac10), its choppy quick lunacy which really suits this kind of mix..

oh... and well interested to hear some New Brand Flex stuff.. sounds great!

don’t get me wrong, great DJs are a joy to watch - Youngsta at the moment is on fire in dubstep - i just found it refreshing that grime came with a different emphasis. It's more punk - slam a tune on - it's all about impact not soporific seamlessness. and anyway half of the momentum in grime comes from the MC (why else would devil mixes have worked?) which is far more flexible a medium than beats on a 10" press.

another negative 90s dance music point is that DJs and DJing has a constrictive effect on arrangement. All tracks must be fixed tempo, have a sparse drum intro etc etc. Grime, which evolved mostly on pirate radio ie free from the constrictions of making people dance, brought new structures, or at least ones with a nod from dancehall and hip hop (not forgetting the influence of Fruity Loops, which forced early producers to use 'switches' ie 8 bars not elongated arrangements).

as an aside, just as grime threw out mixing, it also threw out the emphasis on drum programming. Target beats are like awesome exercises in r&b-informed condensed minimalism. the perfect 3rd-beat skank, with nothing else required - they're a joy to listen to. this approach allows space for sonic experimentation it seems. ( and this approach has also informed dubstep over the last two years too, with half-step etc.)