PDA

View Full Version : your top ten films (?)



jed_
16-07-2005, 09:18 PM
an impossible task, i know but the film board is rather slow moving so maybe this will gove it a kickstart.

here's me top ten (haha 13 now - i've already cheated) for right now, off the top of my head and in no particular order (except my number one which really is my favourite film of all time) it's not an ultimate:

1. Safe (Todd Haynes)..... i really wonder if K-punk has any thoughts on this film?
2. The Elephant Man or Mulholland Dr. (David Lynch)
3. Night of the Hunter (Charles Laughton)
4. The Imitation of life (Douglas Sirk)
5. Barry Lyndon or 2001 (Kubrick)
6. Quiz Show (Robert Redford)
7. Come and See (Elem Klimov)
8. My Dinner with Andre (Louis Malle)
9. Pierrot le Fou or Bande A Part (Godard)
10. Code Unknown (Michael Haneke)

youshouldntdothat
16-07-2005, 11:01 PM
My list today might be:

1. Stalker (Tarkovsky)
2. La Maman et la Putain (Eustache)
3. Il Deserto Rosso (Antonioni)
4. Pi (Aranofsky)
5. The Falls (Greenaway)
6. Performance (Cammell and Roeg)
7. Accident (Losey)
8. The Tempest (Jarman)
9. Magnolia (Anderson)
10. La Dolce Vita (Felini)

dominic
17-07-2005, 03:06 AM
here's my provisional top fifteen -- and i'll cheat even more by listing more than one film by same director

(and i know there's stuff i like better than some of the stuff i list -- so i reserve right to revise)

1 - Lawrence of Arabia and Dr. Zhivago (David Lean, director)
2 - The Leopard and Death in Venice (Visconti, director)
3 - Blow Up and L'Avventura (Antonioni, director)
4 - Amores Pores (Alexandros Gonzalez Innaritu, director)
5 - City of God (Fernando Meirelles, director)
6 - Godfather I and II
7 - Repulsion and Rosemary's Baby (Polanski, director)
8 - Talk to Her (Almodovar, director)
9 - Dreamlife of Angels (Erick Zonca, director)
10 - Five Easy Pieces (Bob Rafelson, director)
11 - Un Coeur en Hivre and Nelly & Monseur Arnaud (Claude Sautet, director)
12 - Chocolat and I Can't Sleep (Claire Denis, director)
13 - The Terrorist (Santosh Sivan, director)
14 - Mysterious Skin (Gregg Araki, director)
15 - The Exorcist

Melmoth
17-07-2005, 11:47 AM
1. Elephant (Alan Clark)
2. La Jetee (Chris Marker)
3. Joan of Arc (Carl Dreyer)
4. L'Avventura (Antonioni)
5. The Gospel According to St. Matthew (Pasolini)
6. Stalker (Tarkovsky)
7. Beau Travail (Clair Denis)
8. 10 (Abbas Kiarostami)
9. Time of the Wolf (Michael Haneke)
10. Dogville (Lars von Trier)

owen
17-07-2005, 04:58 PM
right, this is totally subjective, off top of head, in no particular order, subject to frequent change (and probably a v boring hipster list)....but i do agree more film posts would be nice....right then

-Daisies (Vera Chytilova)
-Sans Soleil (Chris Marker)
-O Lucky Man! (Lindsay Anderson)
-Fallen Angels (Wong kar Wai)
-Faster Pussycat Kill Kill (Russ Meyer)
-A Matter of Life and Death (Powell & Pressburger)
-Withnail & I (Bruce Robinson)- for honesty's sake, but i do genuinely think its a bit of a masterpiece
-Masculin Feminin (Jean Luc Godard)
-The Wicker Man (christ, i can't even remember who directed it...)
-Kuhle Wampe (Slatan Dudow)

h-crimm
18-07-2005, 04:09 AM
owen! is daisies your top favourite of all time on this temporary and highly changeable list?? :)

i'm curious about that movie, i havent seen it yet...
two friends of mine went to see it in oxford when i was lost somewhere not answering my phone cos i didnt have one

one of them found it intensely exciting liberating feminist revolution goodness

the other said it was offensive titilation antifeminist fake politics hackneyed badness


so clearly i need to see it, but i'd be interested in a third opinion

francesco
18-07-2005, 11:13 AM
ah!

Monthy Python and the research for the Holy Grail (monthy pyton)
Mullholland Drive (lynch)
Modern Times (chaplin)
The dead zone (cronemberg)
Arrrapaoh (squallor)
Ordet (dreyer)
The Party (Edwards)
L'eclisse (Antonioni)
Teorema e Porcile (Pasolini)
Violent Cop (kitano)
2001 (kubrick)
Totò a Colori (steno)

and a thousand others.....!

Buick6
18-07-2005, 01:02 PM
After Hours (Scorsese)
The Public enemy (Wellman)
Once Upon a Time in the West (Leone)
Le Diable Problement (Bresson)
Le Mepris (Godard)
Videodrome (Cronenberg)
Stranger than Paradise (Jarmusch)
Johnny Guitar (Nicolas Ray)
Aguirre: Wrath of God (Herzog)
Body Double (DePalma)

Rambler
18-07-2005, 01:28 PM
With no apologies for occasionally trashy selections. Less a list of what I think the greatest films of all time are (although a few of these would qualify); more like ten that I think are wonderful and will always enjoy watching.

(As I remember them, not order of merit):

Memento
Batman
Rear Window
Good Bye, Lenin!
Dogma
Amateur
All about Eve
Withnail & I
Citizen Kane
Moulin Rouge!

michael
18-07-2005, 01:57 PM
-O Lucky Man! (Lindsay Anderson)

I saw this with a bunch of friends on a whim when we were about 17 or 18, just picking it out of the bargain weeklies at the video shop. We thought it was hilarious - absolutely ridiculous, laughably "70s", etc. We all did lots of laughing at it all, including the musical interludes.

But yeah, we were teenagers. I'd love to know more about it now, cos I have a feeling I might really like it now. Isn't it all some sort of anti-capitalist trip? I'd love to hear further comments on it.

owen
18-07-2005, 02:05 PM
actually, mr h crimm, it's top of my unshifting, objective list (or it would be if i had one)....and here's why

what i love about it is it's amiguity, in part- it can be read as feminist and anti-feminist, consumerist and stalinist-apologist, anti-consumerist and anti-socialist etc....actually if anything i'd call it situationist- not cos of any actual influence (doubt there was much debord read in prague in '66) but because of a palpable joy in chaos and play....

fuck it, what i really love about it is that it's an incredibly exhilerating film- such an awesome amount of special effects and touches that i find utterly breathtaking....the train sequences, where the colours bleed and everything speeds up are like the cinematic equiv of a noise factory track or something, and it's full of dancing, music, destruction and other v punkthings while not being remotely macho...it's an astonishingly intoxicating film...and you can get it on video in the UK so SEEK IT OUT!

oh and if anyone has any other vera chytilova films please please private message me, i have money....sometimes

anyway these lists need comments i think, would be more fun (and then rambler could then explain what he sees in moulin rouge!

owen
18-07-2005, 02:06 PM
oh and i'll say why i like o lucky man soon if you like

dominic
18-07-2005, 10:07 PM
9. Time of the Wolf (Michael Haneke)

saw this film last year -- very powerful -- seems like an allegory for our times -- what's the meaning? a civilization's loss of its will to live?

dominic
18-07-2005, 10:10 PM
think i'll have to take notes on everyone's list -- for future dvd rentals

lots of stuff i've never heard of, let alone seen

bruno
19-07-2005, 08:00 AM
la dentelliere (claude goretta, 1977) tragic
grave of the fireflies (takahata isao, 1988) tragic
shogun assassin (robert houston, 1980) violent
sans soleil (chris marker, 1982) hypnotic
top secret! (abrahams+zucker, 1984) funny
r.o.t.o.r. (cullen blaine, 1989) funny
woman in the dunes (teshigahara hiroshi, 1964) hypnotic
to live and die in l.a. (william friedkin, 1984) sordid
l'eclisse (michelangelo antonioni, 1962) hypnotic
cat people (jacques tourneur, 1942) gorgeous, twilight film

and for revealing nastassja kinski to my 11yo brain
cat people (paul schrader, 1982)

michael
19-07-2005, 08:50 AM
oh and i'll say why i like o lucky man soon if you like
Yes please.

Having posted on this directly before going to bed I then had dreams I met Dominic and we talked about Jean Cocteau films!??! What the...? I often have dreams about strangers, though.

Here's something along the lines of the Rambler's approach, but with comments as suggested:

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - I'm sure everyone knows this. My friends tell me Adaptation is much better, but this was more soppy, and, truth be know, I think more than with music I want movies to move me. Endlessly entertaining, IMO.

The Conversation - My favourite Coppola flick, my favourite Gene Hackman flick. I love these paranoid post-McCarthy, post-Watergate US movies. The character of Harry Caul fascinates me no end, and what sound nerd couldn't love the amazing sound work in this?

Passion Fish - A John Sayles drama about a soap actress who loses the use of her legs in an accident and returns to her family home in the South. Soorrrta selfish bitch comes good, but I found it really moving in some way I can't explain, and it's not like a major redemption story.

The Night of The Hunter - The dream like sequences, the weird shifts in pace / tone / genre (?), etc... it makes me think of what people like about Beat Takeshi (I'd go with the obvious - Hana Bi - btw). That scene where the kids have fled and are floating down the river, singing the song, and all the soundstage shots of animals coming to listen.. *tokes on the universe* Jesus.

Down By Law - I should say, having thought I was a big Jim Jarmusch fan, and having watched every one of his movies, I've actually concluded I'm not! Partly its his reputation, though... I don't think he deserves any kind of genius tag at all, and if that wasn't lumped on him I might be more relaxed about his output. Anyway, I do love this one, yeah. The combo of John Lurie, Tom Waits and Robert Benigni rocks my world. Not sure any of them are very believable actors, and it doesn't matter at all. Would've gone with Buick's pick, but no Tom Waits. :p

This Is Spinal Tap - "Big bottoms / Big bottoms / Talk about mudflaps / My girl's got 'em". Yep. Gets really tedious as it goes along, but that's fitting.

Something by the Coens? Haha.. behold my steadfastly middlebrow movie tastes! Not Fargo, I just didn't really get into any of it beyond the two baddies. Yay Steve Buscemi! Maybe The Man Who Wasn't There. Unlike most people I thought the UFO scenes rocked it. Sorry, everyone. :p

The Sweet Hereafter - Heartbreaking stuff about a small town where most all the kids are killed in one go in a bus crash. Atom Egoyan or whoever... I haven't seen it since it was in a film festival in NZ... 97 or 98? I wonder what I would make of it now. I've watched 100s of movies since.

La Haine - What needs to be said about this? Just a simple drama really, about 3 young guys in the slums of Paris and the culture surrounding them.. You either get into it or you don't, another one that friends have always argued me down on, because it's not particularly inventive or anything.


So, to the formal inventiveness pick. I've seen many art movies, from Jodorowksy to Lye to Svankmajer, but I'll stick with my middlebrow selections and go go with Buster Keaton's Sherlock Jr. I saw it in a big old theatre (the Astor, Melburnians) with a live score and was blown away. Spent the whole time veering wildly between laughing & wooping and boggling at the technical side of it. The sequence where Buster Keaton jumps off things and the scene changes around him while he's in mid-leap! Imagine trying to shoot and edit that in the 20s! And so purposeful too - not just idle mucking about.

Ooh, no room for a Tsui Hark film? Ah well...

michael
19-07-2005, 08:59 AM
Haha, reading back I can't believe I made a defensive comment about wanting movies to move me and then pulled out the Coppola film most lacking in character sympathy. No wonder that thing sunk between the first couple of Godfather films.

Has everyone seen The Conversation? I really like movies about surveillance and interpreting documented evidence and so on... The Conversation, De Palma's Blow Out (that amazingly trashy ending!! what the fuck?), and Antonioni's Blowup as an influence on both of those. Anyone got any recommendations?

arcaNa
19-07-2005, 09:00 AM
Brazil (T.Gilliam)
La Jetée (Chris Marker)
Don't Look Now (Nic Roeg)
Ratcatcher (L. Ramsay)
The Apple War (Danielson)
La Cité des Enfants Perdus/City of Lost Children (Jeunet & Caro)
Come And See (Klimov)
My Little Sister
Barbarella (Roger Vadim)
Chungking Express (Wong Kar-Wai)

...not an all-time top list, but some of the ones i like (Aronofsky/Pi and Sergio Leone must be on the list aswell)

owen
19-07-2005, 04:48 PM
well....as i might have said elsewhere on this board, i've got a bit of a weakness for the sweeping- and this is very consciously an indictment of an entire society, at macro and micro level, from the dossers who virtually lynch mcdowell, to the aristos who shaft him. there are some stunning set-pieces as well, especially the military base bit...i like the sourness and anger of it, a sourness that doesn't preclude all kinds of stylistic perversity (the stuff that probably seems '70s', i guess)

i love the third mick travis film, brittania hospital, but that is a bit of a minority view. to say the least

big up for doing comments, btw!

h-crimm
19-07-2005, 08:08 PM
>>>woman in the dunes (teshigahara hiroshi, 1964) hypnotic

oh my dilly! i read the book of this this winter while practically snowed in in chi-town (bleh...)
i cant even begin to imagine what its like on film. surely it must have been sucked down into a soft porn adventure romp?

the book is so intense, every next page he invents a new way of interpretting and humanising or slipping in the features of the sand banks. till youre just waiting fro him to say, till you start making up your own ludicrous obsessive paralells. which makes me think of another film that got mentioned

>>>the conversation

i think i just chanced upon this one night when i was stuck at my parents trying not to wake them up, watchin it with the sound turned down low and hunched really close damaging my eyes.
yeah it is a kind of aural blowup, the repitition is so hypnotic and the calculated ambiguous banality of the conversation itself is sweet.

Melmoth
19-07-2005, 09:11 PM
saw this film last year -- very powerful -- seems like an allegory for our times -- what's the meaning? a civilization's loss of its will to live?

there are some ambiguously redemptive moments in it, that bit where the guy steers the kid away from
the fire, and the final few minutes shot from the moving train. Is it really an allegorical film? I compared it to Stalker on another thread but thats much more obviously allegorical, TOTW is in some ways remarkable in its unremitting grubby materialist realism, none of Tarkovsky's metaphysics.

bruno
20-07-2005, 03:00 AM
i cant even begin to imagine what its like on film. surely it must have been sucked down into a soft porn adventure romp?

lol

no, the film is aparently true to the book, which i haven't read. but i have read a number of his stories and novels (box man, secret rendezvous), and the atmosphere of absurdity and claustrophobia is pure abe kobo. it is also austere and economical, and sometimes obsessed with details, much like abe's books. add to this one of takemitsu's best sound pieces [which you can find (abridged) on 'film music of toru takemitsu'] and you have an amazing film, well worth tracking down!

martin
20-07-2005, 12:18 PM
Robotrix
Police Story
The Living Dead at the Manchester Morgue
Made in Britain
Bladerunner
Matador
Batman (the Adam West one)
Psychomania
Way of the Dragon
Rockers

Ivan Polygon
20-07-2005, 06:24 PM
My first post

These are my favourite films:

1. 2001, a Space Odissey, Stanley Kubrick
2. Apocalypse Now, Francis Ford Coppola
3, Arrebato / Rapture, Iván Zulueta (THE Spanish cult filrm you shouldn't miss if you have the chane of seeing it)
4. Vertigo, Alfred Hitchcock
5. Blade Runner, Ridley Scott (did he really direct it?)
6. Viridiana, Luis Buñuel
7. Blue Velvet, David Lynch
8. 8 1/2 , Federico Fellini
9. L'anée dernière a Marienbad, Alain Resnais
10. Touch of Evil, Orson Welles

This list is no doubt subject to change, but there's nevertheless no way any of this films could get out of my personal top 20.

bassnation
20-07-2005, 10:46 PM
loads of good films mentioned already and very hard to whittle it down to just ten, but heres my choice.

dead mans shoes
(heart rendingly sad, well observed in regards to uk small town culture and a powerful moral concerning "an eye for an eye" which has never been more relevant - one of the most moving and heavy films i've ever seen, even managing some laughs in the process)

night of the living dead
dawn of the dead
day of the dead
(romero's trilogy of films on the human condition haunt my dreams to this day)

dune (one of lynch's most cohesive and visually stunning films as well as being suprisingly true to herbert's brilliant book - if you discount the pulsing space vagina scene, naturally)

goodfellas
scarface
godfather parts 1 and 2
(always been addicted to gangster movies)

alien parts 1 to 3
john carpenters the thing
(wicked sci fi centred on mankinds primal fears)

mms
20-07-2005, 10:59 PM
pompous list runs :
bladerunner
the conversation
alien
aguirre wrath of god
wickerman
l'atlante
the idiots
le feu follet
salesman
black narcissus

i think, no order

DigitalDjigit
21-07-2005, 12:49 AM
Only movies I've seen more than once with one exception:

Big Lebowski
Hackers (you can quit rolling your eyes now)
Trainspotting
Eyes Wide Shut
Brazil
Stalker (this is the exception. It was pretty memorable. I thought "you can show a plot of grass for 10 seconds in a movie. Wow.")

h-crimm
21-07-2005, 02:24 AM
aguirre wrath of god



i was secretly slightly disappointed with that one, yeah it was visually stunning, claustrophobic and crazy but hmmm i dunno
maybe i never bought aguirre as sane in the first place. i think i was also burdened by thinking that it was going to be more than loosely based on the real life story, not that it needed to be, but i was expecting something different.

i mean, i did like it but maybe not as much as i was expecting...


i do love the way the director werner herzog just goes totally mental sometimes, like the scene where theyre riding real wooden rafts down fucking terrifying rapids and have absolutely no control and the camera lens is all covered in spray cos he's on there too about to get drowned
the horse thing is amazing too,
or in fitzcarraldo where they really are dragging that steam ship over the mountain...


the backstory to the film is pretty amazing... isnt this the one where klaus kinski threatened to leave and herzog said if ihe did he'd shoot him and then himself? and where the cast and crew actually got lost in the jungle while making it and nearly starved but the director just kept them going, kept them in peroid costume.

then when they got out of the jungle it was christmass eve and there was only one flight out of peru that wasnt cancelled and they had to draw lots for seats but they lost. then the plane crashed and only one woman survived cos everyone else got blown off her row and the empty seats acted like the wing on a sycamore seed and she spiralled down into the jungle where she was lost for a month. i think he went back to make a documentary about that...

michael
21-07-2005, 02:45 AM
Haha.. pretty sure Aguirre is the one where the locals approached Herzog and said something re: Kinski to the effect "we are not violent people, but we can kill him for you, if you like". :D :D Gold.

It's the only Herzog film I've seen and I found it fairly boring. I appreciate its place and all that, but ...

zhao
21-07-2005, 02:54 AM
oh my. what good tastes in this little forum! :)

jed_
21-07-2005, 04:01 AM
i was secretly slightly disappointed with that one, yeah it was visually stunning, claustrophobic and crazy but hmmm i dunno .



BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MONKEYS!!!!!!?

francesco
21-07-2005, 09:36 AM
Hackers (you can quit rolling your eyes now)


When i saw it, i can't quit rolling my eyes around young Angelina Jolie tits!!

francesco
21-07-2005, 09:41 AM
Haha.. pretty sure Aguirre is the one where the locals approached Herzog and said something re: Kinski to the effect "we are not violent people, but we can kill him for you, if you like". :D :D Gold.

It's the only Herzog film I've seen and I found it fairly boring. I appreciate its place and all that, but ...


had to greatly desagree, really. A void of a film.

Had someone watched the even more incredible films by Herzog before Aguirre, "fata morgana" and the one with only midgets as actors, who if i translate the title in english is: "even the midgets begins as little ones"? pure Jodorosky "el topo" pan allucinogenic teathre of cruelty. Extreme to the n.

mms
21-07-2005, 11:19 AM
i was secretly slightly disappointed with that one, yeah it was visually stunning, claustrophobic and crazy but hmmm i dunno
maybe i never bought aguirre as sane in the first place. i think i was also burdened by thinking that it was going to be more than loosely based on the real life story, not that it needed to be, but i was expecting something different.

i mean, i did like it but maybe not as much as i was expecting...


i do love the way the director werner herzog just goes totally mental sometimes, like the scene where theyre riding real wooden rafts down fucking terrifying rapids and have absolutely no control and the camera lens is all covered in spray cos he's on there too about to get drowned
the horse thing is amazing too,
or in fitzcarraldo where they really are dragging that steam ship over the mountain...


the backstory to the film is pretty amazing... isnt this the one where klaus kinski threatened to leave and herzog said if ihe did he'd shoot him and then himself? and where the cast and crew actually got lost in the jungle while making it and nearly starved but the director just kept them going, kept them in peroid costume.

then when they got out of the jungle it was christmass eve and there was only one flight out of peru that wasnt cancelled and they had to draw lots for seats but they lost. then the plane crashed and only one woman survived cos everyone else got blown off her row and the empty seats acted like the wing on a sycamore seed and she spiralled down into the jungle where she was lost for a month. i think he went back to make a documentary about that...


i just love the story, the acting and the monkeys
yep in the documentary my best fiend it turns out the locals were pretty close to killing kinski.

h-crimm
21-07-2005, 05:19 PM
"even the midgets begins as little ones"?



the english title is "even dwarves started small",

i do really like herzog in general.
does anyone know if he's done any more acting since that film with harmony corine?

dominic
23-07-2005, 09:34 PM
I met Dominic and we talked about Jean Cocteau films!??!

sadly, i'm not the least bit versed in Jean Cocteau -- definitely need to have a cocteau dvd marathon at some point!!!


Passion Fish - A John Sayles drama about a soap actress who loses the use of her legs in an accident and returns to her family home in the South. Soorrrta selfish bitch comes good, but I found it really moving in some way I can't explain, and it's not like a major redemption story.

I'm partial to "Lone Star" -- a very intelligent treatment of the tangled legacy and social relations of southwest Texas -- well acted and well paced and a story that engages all viewers


Down By Law - I should say, having thought I was a big Jim Jarmusch fan, and having watched every one of his movies, I've actually concluded I'm not!

i've never been terribly impressed by Jarmusch -- have seen perhaps five of his films -- none stand out in my mind . . . . i'd say he suffers from a lack of artistic amibition, the cinema equivalent of indie rock

and i suspect he's got nothing to say


La Haine - What needs to be said about this? Just a simple drama really, about 3 young guys in the slums of Paris and the culture surrounding them.. You either get into it or you don't

i liked this film, but don't remember much about it


I've seen many art movies, from Jodorowksy to Lye to Svankmajer

haven't seen any of this stuff -- not even jodorowksy (Sante Sangre, Rainbow Thief) -- or if i have, i didn't realize or appreciate what i was seeing at the time -- so again, looks like a dvd marathon is in order

dominic
23-07-2005, 09:45 PM
oh my. what good tastes in this little forum! :)

yeah -- i have nothing like a unified approach to popular art, such that my approach to film in any way coheres with my approach to music

again, when it comes to film i usually go for overweening ambition -- and i'm very forgiving of failure -- so long as the direction was bold, the intention grand

Dr.Doom
26-07-2005, 04:37 PM
1.Shaun of the dead(Edgar wright)
2.Mallrats(Kevin Smith)
3.Taxi Driver(Martin Scorsese)
4.Tonari no Totoro(Hayao Miyazaki)
5.Laputa: Castle in the Sky (Hayao Miyazaki)
6.The Exorcist(William Friedkin)
7.Jay and silent bob strike back(Kevin Smith)
8.The Godfather(Francis Ford Coppola)
9.Spireted away(Hayoa Miyazaki)
10.Goodfellas(Martin Scorsese) :)

DigitalDjigit
26-07-2005, 05:24 PM
2.Mallrats(Kevin Smith)
7.Jay and silent bob strike back(Kevin Smith)


Argh, WHY!!! There's only one director whom I know by name who I hate and that is Kevin Smith. His movies are all so freaking whiny and the characters won't shut up. All they do is talk about their shitty relationships. "Clerks" was the only decent one. "Mallrats" may have been ok, I can't remember it too well. "Chasing Amy", "Dogma" are shit. "Vulgar" I couldn't even watch past the first 20 minutes. Bizarelly the local video store had it under comedy. I've never seen anything so disturbing.

Rambler
26-07-2005, 06:36 PM
Agreed that Mallrats and Jay and Silent Bob are odd choices to make a top ten films, but disagree completely that Dogma is shit. The whole Kevin Smith thing can be pretty irritating (even if it doesn't bother me so much), but Dogma's the one film where he really breaks out of that (I've not seen Vulgar, so it might not be the only one...) and makes a film that really tries to do something more than show the weird and whacky lives of comic store geeks. It reminds me of Neil Gaiman a lot - that easy-going, non-preachy, but totally informed crossover between day to day life and eternal religious/mythic truths. It's a film about how all organised religion is bollocks because it is man-made, but that this doesn't for one second discount the existence of a God (or gods), and that if everyone just shut up and recognised this, that's it's easily possible - even in a comedy stoner road movie - to imagine a pantheon that can accomodate all deities at once without contradiction or centuries of war. At it's core it's a very angry film, and easily the most interesting (and misunderstood) thing he's done.

Dr.Doom
26-07-2005, 07:49 PM
Argh, WHY!!! There's only one director whom I know by name who I hate and that is Kevin Smith. His movies are all so freaking whiny and the characters won't shut up. All they do is talk about their shitty relationships. "Clerks" was the only decent one. "Mallrats" may have been ok, I can't remember it too well. "Chasing Amy", "Dogma" are shit. "Vulgar" I couldn't even watch past the first 20 minutes. Bizarelly the local video store had it under comedy. I've never seen anything so disturbing.

Yer i see what you mean but i duno its just sumin about them two films,there kinda funny,the others are way better though

michael
27-07-2005, 05:27 AM
sadly, i'm not the least bit versed in Jean Cocteau -- definitely need to have a cocteau dvd marathon at some point!!!
I would thoroughly recommend 'Orphee', although I only watched it once years ago. I think there are two versions, the one I saw has Orpheus as a poet in contemporary (30s? 40s?) France in a real sharp suit. :) The way he first becomes aware of the underworld / afterlife is through his crackly car radio. There's some good backwards shit and maybe some walking through mirrors.

I think this kind of trippy activity is way more exciting / affecting when taken in the context of the aeshetic of such an old movie, rather than in something shinier looking.

I may have already told you all of this in my dream life. ;)



haven't seen any of this stuff -- not even jodorowksy (Sante Sangre, Rainbow Thief) -- or if i have, i didn't realize or appreciate what i was seeing at the time -- so again, looks like a dvd marathon is in order
Well, if you say you like bold direction definitely give a Jodorowsky a go. :D Haha.. I'm laughing, he's such a nut. His modus operandi for cinema was that it should destroy the audience, so that they come away reborn / in need of building up. A sort of unlearning of assumptions, I guess, but the violence of the word "destroy" is appropriate for how this unlearning is effected.

michael
27-07-2005, 05:39 AM
I may have already told you all of this in my dream life. ;)

I should've taken the opportunity last post, when mentioning dream life - Dominic, I really liked Dream Life of Angels too.

The beauty of top 10 lists is discovering new things to check out, eh. If I see 3 or 4 things I like in a list and another 3 or 4 I don't know anything about then I'll at least tell myself I'll check those others out.

The ugliness of lists being one-upping and squabbling over what's "right", I guess... not to mention it encourages a mentality of judgement on proceedings.

Melchior
27-07-2005, 08:07 AM
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - I'm sure everyone knows this. My friends tell me Adaptation is much better, but this was more soppy, and, truth be know, I think more than with music I want movies to move me. Endlessly entertaining, IMO.

Your friends (at least the ones who tell you Adaptation is a beter movie than Endless Sunshine) are desperately wrong. Adaptation is utterly annoying and pretentious wank. Endless Sunshine was a heartbreaking work of staggering genius. Or something.

I was going to give this a go, but I can't honestly say that I've actually got a top ten, even a current one. So I won't. La Haine is probably my favourite movie of all time, but generally there's lots of movies I love, but none at the moment stand out enough to list.

Melchior
27-07-2005, 08:10 AM
At it's core it's a very angry film, and easily the most interesting (and misunderstood) thing he's done.

But it's not very interesting. The core idea is sort of fun, but it doesn't do anything interesting with it. Plus the Jay and Silent Bob are the least appealing thing about Mallrats, Clerks and Chasing Amy.

michael
27-07-2005, 08:58 AM
Your friends (at least the ones who tell you Adaptation is a beter movie than Endless Sunshine) are desperately wrong. Adaptation is utterly annoying and pretentious wank. Endless Sunshine was a heartbreaking work of staggering genius. Or something.

Holy strong feelings, Batman! I know who my true friends are, then. ;) (just stirring if a certain someone's out there reading)

Obviously I'm pinning my favourite-award tail on the Endless Sunshine donkey (whoa Nelly), but I thought Adaptation was pretty funny and less pretentious than your average Important Issues movie from the likes of Oliver Stone or Spielberg. What I mean is I don't think Adaptation was promising anything more than what it delivered, whether or not either of us enjoyed either the concept or execution.

My patience with Adaptation died after the script-writing workshop. What happens to the plot & structure struck me as really cynical towards the audience (here, let me give you what you want, suckers), although I admit we were probably just supposed to find it funny. I can't really be more specific without going into spoilers territory.

Having got that Michel Gondry Director Series DVD I think I'm much more of a fan of Gondry than I am of Kaufman. I like his style, I share his preoccupations with dreams and memory, I like his dumb humour.

Omaar
27-07-2005, 10:12 AM
ok, you guys have sucked me in with all your crazy talk about charlie kaufman movies and la haine being the best movies about.

Actually I think I've tried to pick a list based on the effect these films have had on me rather than perhaps those that in retrospect seem more brilliant (hmm maybe a bit of both now that I think about it)

1. Mouchette (There are better Bresson films around but that was the first one I saw and the ending is utterly brilliantly mundanely tragic) I remeber Au Hasard Balthazarbeing pretty good too

2. The Third Man (i'm a bit wary of including it my own personal list cos it's aways in the sight and sound critics top 10 lists but nevermind)

3. Pierrot le Fou

4. L'atalante

5. Zu Warriors of Magic Mountain - the first Wuxia film I ever saw and it just blew my mind in terms of what film could do

6. The Idiots - The premise is awful and great, the sense of a group of people struggling to to do something politicaly and culturally challenging pointless and offensive and beautiful and it all imploding. plus the incredibly fine line there between humour and despair and tragedy.

7. Solaris - despite sending me to sleep the first few times I saw it (in a good way) the first time I saw it in the cinema (the only tarkovsky I've ever seen in the cinema) it was absoultely stunning.

8. Vertigo

9. L'Humanite - for the scene when the detective plays his casio home keyboard.

10. Dog Day Afternoon

oh . .11. Persona - Bergman -

oh I didn't manage to get Videodrome or Don't Look Now in there ....

Omaar
27-07-2005, 10:17 AM
Actually, I'm not happy having left la maman et la putain off my top 10.

honourable mention for grave of the fireflies too. and maybe the elephant man or mulholland drive too.

Melchior
27-07-2005, 11:45 AM
My problem is that i'm a big sci-fi nerd, and my top ten would have to include starship troopers and you'd all laugh at me. So I just won't bother.

A big part of the La Haine attraction is the anti-cop thing. For me at least, maybe not for Michael.

Octopus?
28-07-2005, 12:41 AM
Well, I virtually never post, but I couldn't resist:

- The entire Lone Wolf And Cub series (with the exception of the final film - boo!)
- Day Of The Dead
- Suspiria
- Fellini's Casanova (one of the most ridiculous movies ever made)
- The Mission
- Texas Chainsaw Massacre (original)
- Dellamorte, Dellamorte (Cemetary Man)
- Withnail And I
- Abbott And Costello Meet Frankenstein
- Aguirre, The Wrath Of God (monkeys, Kinski, insane shots, throbbing Popol Vuh...everything about this movie is absolutely ace. I always feel very disoriented when it ends.)
- Ichi The Killer
- The Cook, The Thief, His Wife And Her Lover ("...it's a delicacy.")

That pops it up to 12, but I choked ;) Those are just off the top of my head...I'm sure I'll remember 5,000 other films I should have included immediately on pressing post.

chimpybits
28-07-2005, 03:19 AM
In no particular order:

L'Atalante - Jean Vigo
Close-up - Abbas Kiarostami
Viaggio in Italia - Roberto Rossellini
Flowers of St Francis - Roberto Rossellini
The Crowd - King Vidor
Le Mepris - Godard
Ali Fear Eats the Soul - Fassbinder
Ordet - Dreyer
Fat City - John Huston
Saturday Night Fever
Showgirls - Paul Verhoeven

I feel this is too slanted to older films and the auteurs and I prolly shouldn't really have 2 by the same director, but this is a quickie.

And just so I don't have to be rigorous:
Honourable mentions: Out of the Blue, Blow Out, Breaking the Waves, King of Comedy, Fox and His Friends, Numero Deux, The Gospel According to St Matthew, A Man Escaped, The Last Laugh
Recent(er) great films: Time Out, Piano Teacher, Marlene Dietrich: Her Own Song, Who the Hell Is Bobby Roos?, Paradox Lake Demonlover, Lilya 4-Ever

Omaar
28-07-2005, 04:02 AM
Recent(er) great films: Time Out, Piano Teacher, Marlene Dietrich: Her Own Song, Who the Hell Is Bobby Roos?, Paradox Lake Demonlover, Lilya 4-Ever

Demonlover was great, one of the most exciting things I've seen in awhile. Other films seen recently that really interested me:

29 Palms, Old Boy

Paradox lake sounds fascinating.

mind_philip
28-07-2005, 05:53 PM
1. The Wicker Man
2. Don't Look Now
3. The Ninth Configuration
4. The People Under the Stairs
5. Night of the Hunter
6. The Company of Wolves
7. The City of Lost Children
8. The Virgin Suicides
9. Rushmore
10. The School Walk-Through in Donnie Darko

All in no particular order of course... (apart from #1)

seelafa
20-03-2008, 06:23 PM
1. Shining (Kubrick)

2. Kids (clark)

3. Invasion of the Body Snatchers (78’)

4. Daisies (chytilova)

5. Tenant (Polanski)

6. The Brood/Dead Ringer (Cronenberg)

7. Two-lane highway

8. Hills Have Eyes (77’)

9. 5000 Fingers of Dr. T (Rowland)

10. Diabolique (clouzot)

Nearly Made It:
Mummy (Fisher)
Of Unknown Origin (cosmatos)
Others (Amenabar)
Return of the Living Dead (O’Bannon)
Romper Stomper (wright)
Thing (carpenter)
Peeping Tom (powell)
Bad Lieutenant (ferrara)
Fat City (Huston)
Gummo (korine)
Honeymoon Killers (kastle)
Eraser head (Lynch)
Umberto D (de Sica)
Le Cercle Rouge (Melville)
Long Goodbye (Altman)

swears
20-03-2008, 06:31 PM
Sorry bit O/T, but why has the user "Omaar" got small non-link text as his username?

Stoopid, I know, but it's bugging me.

empty mirror
20-03-2008, 07:36 PM
1) tarkovsky: mirror
2) diary of a country priest
3) stroszeck
4) after hours
5) treasure of sierra madre
6) the conversation
7) 2001: A Space Odyssey
8) 2042
9) blue Velvet
10) weekend


these are the first 10 movies that came to mind

heroesandvillains
20-03-2008, 07:39 PM
Sorry bit O/T, but why has the user "Omaar" got small non-link text as his username?

Stoopid, I know, but it's bugging me.


I think its because he's no longer a member maybe?? bugged me for a second too

I did two years of heavy Comp Lit in college with endless film classes and wrote more than a dozen papers on Lang, Murnau, Godard, Melville, Fassbinder etc...yet whenever someone asks me my favorite films I always blank out...

off the top of my head(in no particular order)

Apocalypse Now(Coppola)

Perfectly captures the intensely hallucinatory state of total war.

Mulholland Drive(Lynch)

I was only 15 when i first saw this, needless to say it completely blew apart what i thought movies were capable of.

Le Samourai/Le Cercle Rouge/Army of Shadows(Melville)

The first two here are not just two of the best crime film ever made but they are absurdly cool. Army of Shadows I saw when it finally got released in the states in 06/07 and its a pretty incredible work of art.

La Jetee(Marker)

I think this might actually be my favorite film ever...but of course there's what, two shots that aren't still photos? And its quite short...but really I think this is one of the most affecting experiences you can have with the medium. Such a great ending as well.

Brazil(Gilliam)

I've had kind of a love/hate relationship with this film mainly because of all the different versions, but I may have watched this movie more than any other.

Blade Runner(Scott)

I don't think I would've included this here but The Final Cut was pretty much flawless for me.

M(Lang)

This movie plays like one enormously haunting preminition of what was to befall Germany in the years to come. One of the more haunting movies there is.

Royal Tenenbaums(Anderson)

No matter what your feelings on Anderson its hard to deny this movie's greatness. It really gets better every single time I watch it, not a single second gets old.

Lola(Fassbinder)

Most people's least favorite of the BRD Trilogy but for some reason I love it. The bubblegum pop colors, some incredible acting/dialog, and easily Fassbinder's most "fun" movie. Of course I haven't seen Berlin Alexanderplatz yet and with what everyone says about it that probably would replace this here.

Mr. Tea
20-03-2008, 09:38 PM
Sorry bit O/T, but why has the user "Omaar" got small non-link text as his username?

Stoopid, I know, but it's bugging me.


Deleted account, maybe?

nochexxx
21-03-2008, 04:46 PM
not sure if i've my top ten feels 100% right, but here's my attempt at summing up my favourite films.



drunken naster
sonatine
el topo
evil dead
mullholand drive
romper stomper
boiling point
gummo
spinal tap
empire strikes back
warriors

run_time
21-03-2008, 09:15 PM
Bit of a moving target but here is a stab at it

Fargo
The Lives of Others
Battle of Algiers
Akira
Chinatown
Uzak
Red Road
Naked
Delicatessen
Grizzly Man

IdleRich
21-03-2008, 09:30 PM
I find it impossible to name my top ten favourite films but here are ten I like that come to me off the top of my head:

The Shooting
La Bete
Glengarry Glen Ross
The Big Heat
The Roaring Twenties
The Passenger
Marienbad
Gun Crazy
The Holy Mountain
Celine and Julie Go Boating (I'm not totally certain if this is great or really boring?)

Immryr
21-03-2008, 10:47 PM
in no real order....


Martin
Night Of The Hunter
Le Samourai
Mauvais Sang
Ghost Dog Way Of The Samurai
Dawn Of The Dead
Stalker
The Thing
Blue Velvet
Susperia

crackerjack
22-03-2008, 10:40 AM
top 10 I've seen in the last year

no country for old men
oldboy
there will be blood
il conformista
michael clayton
kika
repulsion
all about my mother
tell no one
zodiac

swears
22-03-2008, 05:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDVzmbtVZ6s

Seriously though, really enjoyed this.

swears
22-03-2008, 05:47 PM
If...
Clockwork Orange
Goodfellas
Heathers
They Live
Rope
Akira
La Haine
Gummo
Blue Velvet

Probably loads more I forgot, not a film buff at all though.
Got to admit my ignorance regarding the non-english language and arthouse side of things...

craner
28-04-2008, 02:27 PM
My favorite 10:

Ghostbusters
Profondo Rosso
The Great Silence
Some Like it Hot
Black Sabbath (Mario Bava)
Night of the Iguana
Succubus (Jess Franco)
Hannah and Her Sisters
The House with Laughing Windows
Chinatown
The Rebel (Hancock)

Oops. 11.

droid
28-04-2008, 03:08 PM
Tous Les Matins du Monde
Samurai executioner
Day of the dead
The Thing (Carpenter version)
Suspiria (Just tops Profundo Rosso IMO)
Prince Of Darkness (Carpenter)
My Neighbour Totoro
Evil Dead 2
The Shining
Bruce Lee gainst Supermen :D

I'm useless at this kinda thing though - i just type whatever pops into my head.. Id probably pick a different 10 tomorrow. :confused:

bruno
28-04-2008, 05:46 PM
i agree, i can't make up my mind on anything. also, i've seen more films these last three years than during my entire life, more films than actual real life, sadly. a lot of what i have seen has either reflected my past in some uncanny way or started to permeate the world around me, the most jarring example being few days ago when my co-flatmate was kidnapped outside an atm. she was shuttled back and forth through the city at knifepoint, doused with water, threatened+. that very day, unaware of her ordeal, i had watched i ragazzi della roma violenta, which deals with bands of disaffected youth that do bad things to girls. there were also flashbacks to the plight of rena niehaus in la orca, needless to say i won't be lending her these films anytime soon. she is thankfully safe at our flat now, eating onion soup made by yours truly. so, in retrospect i regret leaving out la orca, l'immoralità, bestialità, burning lips, anything with leonora fani, ms niehaus, some david hamilton film for pleasure, the emmanuelle films, naked gun, blade runner (how could i forget), ondata di piacere, like idlerich la bête, even the shit borowczyk films are worth watching. the list will change constantly, it's impossible to see and appreciate all there is in such a short time. and oliver, i had forgotten about ghostbusters! my first soundtrack ever, sniff.

+ a little context, this fast kidnapping with the intention of emptying out a person's bank account was pioneered in argentina during the time of the economic crisis i think, occasionally (sadly more frequently than i thought) the style is copied this side of the mountain, this is what she got herself into

craner
28-04-2008, 05:52 PM
French or Italian? Emmanuelle or Emanuelle?

craner
28-04-2008, 05:55 PM
Ghostbusters is one of the funniest Jewish comedies ever made, one of the most evocative Manhattan films, and an extremely atmospheric horror movie of sorts. It's about as perfect as a film can be as far as I'm concerned.

bruno
28-04-2008, 06:09 PM
french, i'm not a fan of the gemser films - yet. there is something unsettling about her, i admit she scares me. what is jewish about ghostbusters, the anti-sumerian bit?

craner
28-04-2008, 06:20 PM
The Jewish sensibility Harold Ramis and Ivan Reitman injected into it - for me it self-evidently qualifies as part of the Billy Wilder and Phil Silvers and Woody Allen vein.

craner
28-04-2008, 06:25 PM
True about Gemser - she's not "sexy" in the slightest, more like an Apollonian statue than an erotic object. Although she does do the breezy post-feminist sashay very well and looks fabulous in flared suits and so on. She adds a kind of sheer and strange dissonance to D'amato's unhinged productions. Watch the last ten minutes of Emanuelle Around the World and you'll see what I mean. (Now that's not necessarily a recommendation.)

bruno
28-04-2008, 06:26 PM
ah, ok. i was literally eight the last time i saw this.

craner
28-04-2008, 06:28 PM
It's worth a rewatch. You should do it tonight. This film actually grows with you. That's a unique quality very very few films have. The script is flawless.

bruno
28-04-2008, 06:35 PM
yes, she is very hermetic. i've felt on the cusp of deriving pleasure from that iron femininity many times but i am obsessed with vulnerability. it's one of the few things that keeps me open and sane. i will watch ghostbusters.

Mr. Tea
28-04-2008, 09:23 PM
yes, she is very hermetic. i've felt on the cusp of deriving pleasure from that iron femininity many times but i am obsessed with vulnerability. it's one of the few things that keeps me open and sane. i will watch ghostbusters.

I enjoyed reading that post by itself, then going back to the previous page to realise you're not talking about Sigourney Weaver. :D Although 'iron femininity' would be about right for the Alien films!

Ghostbusters truly is a sublimely (Slimer-ly?) funny, well-made film.

bruno
28-04-2008, 11:10 PM
mr tea, i just read that a ghostbusters videogame has been released, we are unwittingly promoting a commercial franchise! i blame oliver.

craner
28-04-2008, 11:56 PM
Don't blame me. I loathe Ghostbusters 2!

Mr. Tea
29-04-2008, 12:28 AM
Don't blame me. I loathe Ghostbusters 2!

Aww come on, it's not bad as sequels go. And it's got that dude from Ally McBeal in it, and the big ugly evil guy who looks a bit like David Gilmour. And more slime than Noel's House Party. What's not to like?

IdleRich
29-04-2008, 10:11 AM
If I was doing this list now I might include Carnival of Souls which I watched for the first time the other day and thought was brilliant and have been recommending to everyone I know ever since. Even though it's obvious what the ending is going to be that doesn't matter because it adds a scary sense of inevitability - you just know she's fucked. The bit when she's driving through the desert at night and a face appears at the side window had particular resonance for me because if I drive alone at night I always start worrying about there being somebody hiding in the back seat or whatever. A ghostly face keeping pace with the car would be something else though...

Octopus?
29-04-2008, 07:45 PM
If I was doing this list now I might include Carnival of Souls which I watched for the first time the other day and thought was brilliant and have been recommending to everyone I know ever since. Even though it's obvious what the ending is going to be that doesn't matter because it adds a scary sense of inevitability - you just know she's fucked. The bit when she's driving through the desert at night and a face appears at the side window had particular resonance for me because if I drive alone at night I always start worrying about there being somebody hiding in the back seat or whatever. A ghostly face keeping pace with the car would be something else though...

I just saw Carnival of Souls as well for the first time ever a few weeks ago and entirely agree. The sense of DREAD that overhangs everything makes for a hugely tense viewing experience, and the micro-budget doesn't get in the way at all...in fact the ramshackle nature of the film almost contributes to it. Fantastic movie - I was very worried that it would be disappointing given how much it's been built up but, if anything, it exceeded expectations.

That ghostly face scene was terrifying, and the organ freakout is one of the creepiest things I've seen in a while.

Mr. Tea
29-04-2008, 09:26 PM
The bit when she's driving through the desert at night and a face appears at the side window had particular resonance for me because if I drive alone at night I always start worrying about there being somebody hiding in the back seat or whatever.

Just as well you don't have a car, eh? Though if you or I or most Londoners are travelling late at night it's probably by bus, and something like that is actually not unlikely to happen on a London night bus.

IdleRich
30-04-2008, 09:44 AM
"I was very worried that it would be disappointing given how much it's been built up but, if anything, it exceeded expectations."
Well, I was lucky on that score because I'd never heard of it. I just saw it in the video library and thought it looked interesting.


"That ghostly face scene was terrifying, and the organ freakout is one of the creepiest things I've seen in a while."
Yeah, great scene - the music was brilliant all the way through.
Did you see that according to the extras eight minutes of footage relating to the creatures emerging out of the desert was lost in processing? Shame because it sounded like a powerful scene.

zhao
07-05-2008, 10:05 AM
Eternal Sunshine was a heartbreaking work of staggering genius. Or something.

i walked out of the theater and demanded my money back after 30 minutes and they would not give me a refund :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

i walked out of Science of Sleep after only 15 minutes and managed to get my 12USD back :D :D :D

zhao
07-05-2008, 10:15 AM
Chris Marker: San Soleil,
Andre Tarkovsky: Stalker,
Carl Dreyer: The Passion of Joan of Arc,
Apichatpong Weerasethakul: Sud Pralad (Tropical Malady),
Werner Herzog: Stroszek,
Abbas Kiarostami: Ten,
Hayao Miyazaki: Princess Mononoke,
Jan Kounen: Dobermann,
Takashi Miike: Chûgoku no chôjin (The Bird People of China),
Gillo Pontecorvo: La Battaglia di Algeri (The Battle of Algiers),
Mikhail Kalatozov: Soy Cuba (I Am Cuba),
Miranda July: Me and You and Everyone We Know.
Wong Kar Wei: In the Mood for Love,
Mike Judge: Office Space,
David Lynch: Mulholland Drive,
Marc Caro / Jean-Pierre Jeunet: Cité des enfants perdus, La (The CIty of Lost Children),

bruno
14-05-2008, 11:25 PM
i walked out of the theater and demanded my money back after 30 minutes
i also lasted about thirty minutes, thankfully not in the theatre. the only film i have walked out on has been life is beautiful, it was torture. jim carrey should stick to ace ventura, things like that. ace ventura pet detective, now that's a good film.

zhao
15-05-2008, 06:49 AM
i also lasted about thirty minutes, thankfully not in the theatre. the only film i have walked out on has been life is beautiful, it was torture.

me too! i don't know why anyone in their right mind would want to watch these pathetic sick fucks. it's just disgusting. why not just go into a mental institution and watch people mutilate themselves.

as for Eternal Bullshit of a Stupid Mind and the Science of Tackiness... they're so "cutting edge"! "ground breaking"! "experimental!" "magical!" "surreal!" BARF

people who say this are confusing garish MTV special effects for "visual innovation"; solipsistic vapid self absorption (because there is nothing else) for "depth of feeling"; and cheap tricks which insult my intelligence and offend my aesthetic sensibility for real film magic.

and that's what this is about, and the reason I hate these films: they substitute cutesy flashy gimmicks for real cinematic experience, and substitute wince-worthy coffee-shop cliches for poetry, and give us cheap and tacky one-liner Hall-Mark type "deep thoughts" instead of profundity.

perfect for a generation which does not know real cinema: films of such resonance and enigma that you find yourself thinking about them lying awake at night a decade later... films whose images haunt you in your most private moments of clarity, and reveal layers of meaning with each passing season. films made with elegance and grace and a supreme economy which continues to give with each viewing -- the more you think about them, the more they are rewarding.

stick to music videos where these stupid little tricks actually work as a passing distraction would be my suggestion. EDIT: vapid trendy music video extended to 1.5 hours = ANNOYING ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER GARBAGE.

DannyL
15-05-2008, 09:07 AM
I think you're being a little harsh on Eternal Sunshine. Visual trickery over depth is a good point - but i think the film has some very interesting things to say about relationships. Your post actually makes me want to watch it again so I can argue with you :) !

DannyL
15-05-2008, 09:14 AM
However, having said that - why shouldn't films use "garish MTV speical effects"? Do films then have to be made with "economy"? Surely visual spectacle is part of the "magic of cinema"? I like OTT mise-en-scene - this is one of the things I love about Terry Gillingham's films for instance.

DannyL
15-05-2008, 09:20 AM
Re. the film and relationships. I found very touching, and deep in a lot of ways, on first watch - the way in which the protagonists *choose* to take the chance on re-running their relationship - despite/even because of - knowing that it's going to go wrong. There's a lot more to it than this as well, but I can't remember the subtleties. Fuck it, it's a great film :)

I'm going to rewatch this weekend and then i'll get back to you with more.

Grievous Angel
15-05-2008, 09:26 AM
Do you mean Terry Gilliam?

paul ye ex-pedant.

DannyL
15-05-2008, 09:27 AM
No, I mean the other Terry - that obscure guy you've not heard of BECAUSE YOU KNOW NOTHING

DannyL
15-05-2008, 09:28 AM
*I don't really*

zhao
15-05-2008, 09:53 AM
the film has some very interesting things to say about relationships.

like what? you shouldn't go out with stupid annoying 90s grunge chicks with red hair? LOL.

pathetic self pity interspersed with cutesy childhood scenes DOES NOT EQUAL "a meditation on memory and loss"

obnoxious A.D.D. jump-cut style DOES NOT EQUAL "an evocation of the fragmentary and ephemeral nature of perception and love"


why shouldn't films use "garish MTV speical effects"?

I'm not saying that these things should never be employed, but for the most part vapid trendy music video extended to 1.5 hours = ANNOYING ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER GARBAGE.


Do films then have to be made with "economy"?

good art is ALWAYS made with an elegant economy. in my book at least.


Surely visual spectacle is part of the "magic of cinema"? I like OTT mise-en-scene - this is one of the things I love about Terry Gillingham's films for instance.

of course. notice i rated DOBERMAN which is shot like a commercial for a sports car in my top 10. but a part of what is annoying about these Gondry flicks is the huge difference between what they are -- cheap sentimentality and un-profound emptiness dressed up in trendy po-mo fashion victim clutter -- VS. what they are touted to be (all those bullshit descriptors i listed in the beginning)

DannyL
15-05-2008, 10:13 AM
like what? you shouldn't go out with stupid annoying 90s grunge chicks with red hair? LOL

I think there's a lot more to it than that.

Like I said, i've only seen it the once, so I can't recall all of what I felt/saw at the time. It did seem to be saying somthing resonant for me about the cyclical nature of the way we involve ourselves with people, despite or even because of our past histories. the film seems to straddle the divide and doesn't present this as being an optimistic or disastrous state of affairs. This is one of the reasons I liked it so much - this lack of judgement, managing to hold two possibilities open...

As evidence for the defence, I'll marshall this thread from another board I frequent from a few years ago - this page 2 http://www.barbelith.com/topic/15834/from/35

Everyone's being complimentary about it so that may make you want to pull your eyes out :) but note that pretty much no one is talking about the film as spectacle - no one was sucked in by Gondry's evil MTV tricks - most people wanted to discuss and tease out the exact nature of the relationship between the two main characters.

DannyL
15-05-2008, 10:16 AM
... and as I said the way that this isn't fixed or closed is one of the film's strengths. Very different from most mainstream cinematic narratives.

BTW - bearing in mind you walked out of the cinema - have you seen it all the way through ever?

zhao
15-05-2008, 10:48 AM
... and as I said the way that this isn't fixed or closed is one of the film's strengths. Very different from most mainstream cinematic narratives.

BTW - bearing in mind you walked out of the cinema - have you seen it all the way through ever?

actually yes unfortunately... at a friend's place... couldn't be avoided really.

but i admit to a bit of exaggeration on this subject. that the reason for that is the praise leveled at it by all these hipsters everywhere...

i mean i believe in real film magic. films that change your life. or make you see the world in a new light. and this shit has nothing to do with that.

and there is nothing wrong with sentimental or "cheap tricks" per se either... for instance i liked Amelie... may be hard to reconcile with my hatred of these, but i dunno, it just worked well, and was good for what it is -- instead of pretending to be all these things that it isn't -- and even more annoying successfully pulling one over everyone.

IdleRich
15-05-2008, 11:06 AM
I'm kinda with Zhao on this I think. I mean, maybe it's not quite as bad as he says but it's definitely one of those films that thinks it's really clever when it's not. The idea is not bad but I thought it was executed with too much cheap sentiment and also it was very predictable. On top of that, the premise was unbelievable I think - not necessarily disastrous in itself but I thought that combined with the smugness it just served to emphasise the huge gap between what the film thought it was and what it actually achieved. Maybe I'm more inclined to pick the film up for its deficiencies due to the critical (and fan) reception it got though, I dunno.
DannyL - what's your name on Barbelith?

DannyL
15-05-2008, 11:10 AM
I think this is one of the things Dissensus and forums generally are good for - reactng to hype, overselling and fashionability.

I don't think every film has to be life changing - sometimes entertainment is enough, but rergardless I still think ESOTSM is a level up from just entertainment as I said. I can see why it gets on your tits though.

(Ironically enough I'm going through a breakup at the moment - I don't really wish someone could burn out my emotions and memories with a brain laser but at moments it doesn't seem like a bad idea).

DannyL
15-05-2008, 11:15 AM
Rich like I said I need to watch it again - maybe I'll find it too smug to live this time, who knows? I was probably part of the wave of hype first time around (in talking it up) that you were guys were reacting to.

At the minute, my Barbelith handle is Rex Feral though in the past it's been Illmatic, Lucky Liquid, Giant Haystacks and various others I forget. Think we chatted about verygoodplus in a thread? Used to post on there loooaddss esp in "The Temple" - was a mod there for a couple of years, but it's a bit fucked now - no effective moderation software so less inclined to get involved. Plus different job now = less net time.

IdleRich
15-05-2008, 11:35 AM
"At the minute, my Barbelith handle is Rex Feral"
Oh yeah, seen that name. I joined on it not too long ago but it's just too ssllllloooowww and all everyone does is sarcastically moan about how crap it is now. Dissensus just seems to be more interesting really. Not too difficult to work out what my name is on there I guess.

DannyL
15-05-2008, 11:46 AM
I'll chuck you a Barbelith related PM rather than rot this thread.

zhao
15-05-2008, 02:16 PM
another one i hated for somewhat similar reasons is the "fantasy world war 2 fairy tale", whatitcalled, the one with the little girl in Spain with the despotic evil tyrant father, and all these 3-D monsters and insects? the fuck was that shit called...

anyhow people are like "surreal", "magical", blah blah blah.

NO IT IS NOT "SURREAL" OR "MAGICAL. IT IS ENTIRELY UNIMAGINATIVE AND BANAL CGI.

a lifeless, rigid, empty husk of a film... and all the people clamoring around it just make me hate it that much more.

crackerjack
10-07-2008, 10:48 AM
Don't have time to read this all today, but at least they got the No.1 right.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/related_features/top_100_films/

IdleRich
10-07-2008, 11:01 AM
"2 - There Will Be Blood
Few films in recent years have made such an instant and dramatic impact as this"
Nooooo! I'm fucking fed up of reading about this film. Did anyone see that interview with DDL in one of the free papers when he was banging on about how he prepared for the role by building loads of oil derricks and tunnels and stuff in his back garden? He sounded like a right pretentious dick.

IdleRich
10-07-2008, 11:45 AM
Just to stir it up a bit - it looks as though Zhao and I were wrong - Eternal Sunshine is the 9th best film of all time.

fokse vektaire xeven
10-07-2008, 11:51 AM
Nooooo! I'm fucking fed up of reading about this film. Did anyone see that interview with DDL in one of the free papers when he was banging on about how he prepared for the role by building loads of oil derricks and tunnels and stuff in his back garden? He sounded like a right pretentious dick.

ha. i had wondered what his "method" had entailed this time. you know- he boxed for two years to make that film about a boxer, what did he do- take over an oilfield? single handedly sink derricks in the desert? fwiw i enjoyed the film and given its quality and popularity it's not a surprise to see it on here, or people with "i drink your milkshake" t shirts. this list is full of ridiculous inclusions and hoary old standbys as usual...

IdleRich
10-07-2008, 12:08 PM
"this list is full of ridiculous inclusions and hoary old standbys as usual..."
Yeah, on further examination this appears to be a particularly poor list but these things can never be any good really - if you pick Citizen Kane as number one it's boring, if you don't then everyone is annoyed, most lists go for a mixture of the two styles and end up being a mess.
I always hated ET - and where was Spermula?

crackerjack
10-07-2008, 12:28 PM
Just to stir it up a bit - it looks as though Zhao and I were wrong - Eternal Sunshine is the 9th best film of all time.

Kinell. I quite liked it (mainly cos I though Winslett was brilliant), but that's just mental.


Yeah, on further examination this appears to be a particularly poor list but these things can never be any good really - if you pick Citizen Kane as number one it's boring, if you don't then everyone is annoyed, most lists go for a mixture of the two styles and end up being a mess.

Yeah, contrived for the sake of being a bit different, though i did watch Kane again recently and thought it had dated massively in the decade or so since I lasst watched it. Touch Of Evil is probably more in tune the times. So long as 3rd man is still riding high somewhere.

crackerjack
10-07-2008, 01:01 PM
So long as 3rd man is still riding high somewhere.

OK, it's not there at all. this chart is a farce, avert they gaze :mad:

viktorvaughn
15-07-2008, 11:02 AM
Drowning by Numbers - Peter Greenaway

I love him! He has made some poor stuff and some stuff that didn't work but at least he had the balls to do it, he is ridiculously articulate and passionate and he could have been a politician or something, he is such a good orator. I saw him speak for over an hour off the cuff and it was immense. I love the recurring tropes of maps, numbers and the Michael Nyman harpsichord stuff. Draughtsman's Contract also brilliant imo, as is A Walk Through H an account of loads of fictional maps.

Clockwork Orange - Kubrick

Just incredible stylish in its retro-futurism and very evocative and I love the language etc. Malcolm Mcdowell has an amazing face too.

Bonny and Clyde with Warren Beatty and Faye Dunaway

Memories of Murder - modern Korean film. It's great.

Eclipse - Antonioni. Heartbreaking beauty.

Err load of other things...