'The Empire Pays Back' on Channel 4 -RIGHT NOW!

'The Empire Pays Back' on Channel 4 - 15/08/05

Well £7.5 trillion, England? Make the cheque out to.......

lol we all know thats not gonna happen but still im a firm believer in reparations. I'll still make people hear about it when they don't want to 'cos it CANNOT be forgotten.

Anyone else watch before I continue?
 
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sufi

lala
yup
that was great, $7.5 trill would go a long way,
i also watched a brilliant docco about the forgotten genocide of namibians in the 1st decade of the 20thC later on last night.
the germans are just beginning to acknowledge the history of concentration and extermination camps there, however, just as there are no monuments to slaves in London, there is no monument to the 10s of 1000s of people killed in Namibia betwen 1904-9.
 

DigitalDjigit

Honky Tonk Woman
Because the GDP of the UK is around 1.782 trillion right now. So even if you assume that half of that is absolutely necessary for survival it would take around 10 years to make the payment.
Then you have the issue of how the funds will be spent. There isn't the infrastructure out there to absorb that much capital. Let's not forget what is happenning in Iraq with money disappearing into people's pockets.
 
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henrymiller

Well-known member
why is it insane? i suppose it needs answering. is there a statute of limitations on crimes against humanity? maybe not, but i kind of see this as the 'left' equivalent of enoch powell-bnp 'send 'em back' ahistorical mentalism.
ahistorical partly 'cos it's highly selective in who gets payback. who should pay the descendents of africans put into slavery by other africans? what of other persecuted peoples, the natives of australia and north america -- or indeed the west indies. perhaps india *should* pay uganda for dominating its bureaucracy for decades. should the russians of today be compensated for the 'loss of earnings' caused by the revolution? maybe the chinese could look into getting payback from japan.
also, will this be US state funds being used to pay. in which case, should only white taxpayers pay the burden? what of the descendents of the bulgarians whose plight was taken up in 'the jungle'? or recent mexican immigrants? if corporations have to pay, what should black shareholders (ie anyone with pensions) do? sue for loss of earnings?
 

dominic

Beast of Burden
yeah, i have little patience for talk of "reparations"

human history is about some groups dominating and exploiting other groups

end of story

(and how you choose to live your own life is another story)

every country is ruled by ambitious mofo's out to dominate and exploit others

and then the groups that rule the most powerful countries set out to dominate and exploit the rest of the world -- until their country is eclipsed by other countries

i personally have no interest in pursuing money or power -- but i also don't kid myself about human nature, i.e., the diversity of human types, and the fact that there will always be certain types out to fuck others over

when the current u.s.-dominated global system collapses beneath its own contradictions, the result will not be a world free of domination and injustice

no, it will simply mean a new set of rulers and a new set of slaves

paying reparations will do nothing to change this eternal truth and dynamic
 
interesting...

I'll confront the other points in more depth later but no one complained as much when some Jewish people received reparations. Jus thought I'll add that to put things into a lil' perspective.

Bye lol.
 

henrymiller

Well-known member
i think the jews in question were directly affected by the holocaust (ie uprooted, lost families, etc -- were actually of the generation affected by the holocaust). it's no uncontroversial itself, and it's fair to have qualms (after all, do communists or homosexuals receive reparations from germany?), but they are slightly different situations. the equivalent to the slavery reparations would be present-day jews claiming compensation for the pogroms.

also another point re the US -- should the western US have to pay? or the northern states? perhaps only the confederacy should pay.
 

owen

Well-known member
essentially i agree with you, but i think this kind of stuff is useful if only in a propagandist way- redressing the idea that 'we' are owed by 'them' which is, y'know, actual fiscal policy across the globe. but sure, reparations are illogical and more or less window dressing.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
i was more than a bit pertubed by that woman from the home office whose response was blindingly arrogant. he said that if they forgot about the trillions, would blair apologise? she just said it wasnt important, that it wasnt needed, and that everyone should hurry up and move on. the LBC DJ was just as idiotic, saying that black people dont care about these issues until guys like the presenter come along and make it worse for everyone. people seem to want to brush it all under the carpet. that said, the guy hosting it sometimes went a little too eagerly for the easy option in his argument.
 

dominic

Beast of Burden
2stepfan said:
I haven't heard a good argument yet why "the sins of the father should be visited upon the son".

the argument would run to the effect that the sons enjoy the advantages wrongfully gained by the fathers

again, i take the position that this is simply how the world works, a few profit and the rest get exploited to one degree or another -- however, you might say that i find this a convenient position to take b/c i've been relatively materially privileged, i.e., born into the american upper middle income stratum (though on the brink of becoming irredeemably declasse, or so my anxiety runs, i.e., the cost of perpetual adolesence, i.e., slothful wavering in the face of unpalatable career choices while suffering from a deficit of artistic vocation and spiritual drive) -- but whatever -- the point is that this is the nature of human history -- and if "we" have ruled and exploited "them" for the past 300 years or so, "their" descendants will lord it over "our" descendants some day -- i.e., that's when the real payback will occur
 
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