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KaBuT
23-08-2005, 01:10 PM
It's just occured to me that in my (Admittedly limited, compared to the folks in here) experience of listening to grime i've never come across an overtly political sentiment.

How political does grime get? I can appreciate that some scenes (possibly for the best) tend to steer clear of lecturing a message, does grime fall into this category?

Will political/concious/social vocalists one day arrive and pull the scene off in a new direction?

Blackdown
23-08-2005, 01:16 PM
explicity there's been very little. Dizzee makes a few Blair references, Wiley too, there's a Faction G dub that's political. to be grime is much more implicitely political, begging questions to be asked about social conditions and personal lifestyle choices.

mms
23-08-2005, 01:23 PM
heard one interesting one that was going on about 'we're all terror suspects ' the other night and talking about the aftermarth of the bmbings abd fearing the tube.
Also another with i think donnaeo discussing guns government and the war in iraq i a rather conspiratorial style. there seem to be more creeping in - also dogzillas 'nightshift' which samples paul young which corny as it is, is endearing and lovely, discusses the need for better social services..

3underscore
23-08-2005, 01:25 PM
I would agree, Blackdown. What with the time-lag in tunes coming through to vinyl (especially), and moreso general production... do you expect anything from the bombings to filter into the content? I thought at the time it was the type of event that would influence some tracks.

Edited to say I wrote this on the thread before mms' had arrived. On returning to the board I notice that this makes me look an ignorant muppet. Which is probably quite true, just not in this circumstance!

Blackdown
23-08-2005, 01:27 PM
i heard a Sier lyric about 'blowing up like a Muslim' recently

mms
23-08-2005, 01:29 PM
I would agree, Blackdown. What with the time-lag in tunes coming through to vinyl (especially), and moreso general production... do you expect anything from the bombings to filter into the content? I thought at the time it was the type of event that would influence some tracks.

so you just ignored the post i wrote?
:)

gumdrops
23-08-2005, 01:35 PM
i'd say grime is completely apolitical, really.

gabriel
23-08-2005, 01:36 PM
time-lag in reading/posting seems more appropriate than time-lag in production/release here!

KaBuT
23-08-2005, 01:38 PM
i'd say grime is completely apolitical, really.

I suppose being apolitical doesn't mean you can't be conscious. As Blackdown says if you beg social questions then that's implicitly political anyway.

john eden
23-08-2005, 01:44 PM
I suppose being apolitical doesn't mean you can't be conscious. As Blackdown says if you beg social questions then that's implicitly political anyway.

Word. Talking about everyday life is political. Plus I think it's usually more interesting than talking about the bigger picture.

gumdrops
23-08-2005, 01:50 PM
do grime MCs talk about everyday life though?? most lyrics seem to be about slewing wastemen, or talking about nothing in particular and skipping from topic to topic.

then again, there are always lyrics like the ones on wileys album which were a bit more self reflective and inward looking (sometimes a bit too much so).

another vaguely political grime lyric is when im ere, when someone (trim?) says 'never ever see a black face when im 'ere'. that line surprised me. grime MCs dont often draw attention to things like that.

h-crimm
23-08-2005, 01:55 PM
is it in that last show logan did on rinse where maxwell D (just a guess :D ) goes off on a big numerical analysis of major record deals vs. DIY scene economics. "just a little reality check"?
made me smile anyway.

gumdrops
23-08-2005, 01:59 PM
there's JME's serious too.

h-crimm
23-08-2005, 02:03 PM
another vaguely political grime lyric is when im ere, when someone (trim?) says 'never ever see a black face when im 'ere'. that line surprised me. grime MCs dont often draw attention to things like that.

i thought it was flodan saying "i DONT wanna see your black face when i'm here"
which i thought was something you just say to piss people off

we need arbitration...

john eden
23-08-2005, 02:05 PM
do grime MCs talk about everyday life though?? most lyrics seem to be about slewing wastemen, or talking about nothing in particular and skipping from topic to topic.

then again, there are always lyrics like the ones on wileys album which were a bit more self reflective and inward looking (sometimes a bit too much so).

another vaguely political grime lyric is when im ere, when someone (trim?) says 'never ever see a black face when im 'ere'. that line surprised me. grime MCs dont often draw attention to things like that.

I'm bluffing really, I know next to nothing about grime... :)

mms
23-08-2005, 02:12 PM
grime is always pollitical in a sense, the game the cash, the need for a deal, the inwars etc, these are things you don't hear from other types of music to such an extent, grime also being a community within a larger network and industry .
i think there will be some more concious kinda grime - listening to a show on rinse on saturday there seemed to be some reflection coming thru. as i already said
dogzilla is a very reflective mc in the style of someone like tupac, that grey area between self loathing, self aggrandisment, reflection on background and dreams.

gumdrops
23-08-2005, 02:29 PM
dogzilla is actually far more like the grime non-phixion or necro.

mms
23-08-2005, 02:33 PM
dogzilla is actually far more like the grime non-phixion or necro.
on some tracks he is - was it him that did that tune about gettting totally fucked on pills -
but other tracks hes as i've described him i think 'actually'. still not sure whether i really like what he does tho

gumdrops
23-08-2005, 02:38 PM
yeah i dont really like him, lol. hes one of my least favourite MCs. he often sounds like hes whining. like hes about to have a tantrum.

DJ Lioness
23-08-2005, 02:58 PM
Purple has got several lyrics about Tony Phoney and the government.

Diggedy Derek
23-08-2005, 03:14 PM
Yeah, Purple and L Man certainly do a lot of explitictly political stuff. But I generally agree that a lot of Grime is inherently political. Partiucularly Dogzilla actually- although he has songs about taking lots of pills, his songs about big nights out and losing lots of money ("Where's My Money Gone" or whatever it's called) has a certain edge of desparation that makes it political. This whole angle of "I've done a big tune, I've got a couple of grand" has to be seen in a context where this windfall is seen as almost pure blind luck, and next month he might well be signing on.

On a side note, whatever happened to his tune "who the fuck wanna fuck with me who the fuck wanna fuck with me"? I'm not saying that was political, but it was absolutely awesome. Possibly one of my favorite tunes of the year. Logan?

In fact, isn't the Fire Hydrant rhythm far and away the biggest grime rhythm of the year? Any serious competitors- Dexplicit's "Hench", perhaps?

blissblogger
23-08-2005, 03:34 PM
couple of years back got a tape from luka with a durty goodz freestyle on it that i titled 'black man freestyle' on account of its reference to 'malcolm x's shooter' and 'powerful black men' and various other black power icons.

never heard anything else like it before or since really -- an aberration, seemingly

most grime i'd said was political with a small 'p' -- pre-conscious -- non-ideological -- if you talked to these guys they'd probably have a pretty sharp sense of how fucked the world, unjust the game is, etc is but they don't have any sense of solutions or a Better Way

i interviewed wiley and roll deep earlier in the year and they had some astute things to say about anger and hopelessness, esp Wiley... but can't really think of anywhere it's actually filtered into their lyrics...

mostly the overt politics of grime is a sort of self-help/pull yourself up by your own bootstraps/it's your own fault if you don't make it cos you ain't got the get-up-and-go -- Thatcherism meets American hip hop cult of initiative/ambition... anti-politics in other words

head
23-08-2005, 03:39 PM
<< mostly the overt politics of grime is a sort of self-help/pull yourself up by your own bootstraps/it's your own fault if you don't make it cos you ain't got the get-up-and-go -- Thatcherism meets American hip hop cult of initiative/ambition... anti-politics in other words

nicely put

ambrose
23-08-2005, 03:54 PM
that "WMDs" tune is a bit rubbish. is that the faction g one? thats the most overtly political one ive heard

gumdrops
23-08-2005, 04:21 PM
the WMDs one is pretty bad.

xpost, grime IS anti political. i know someone who photgraphed dizzee and tried to get him to add his name and image to a campaign of some sort about illegal trading, but he refused, saying he wanted nothing to do with 'political stuff'.

baboon2004
23-08-2005, 04:38 PM
[QUOTE=Diggedy Derek]On a side note, whatever happened to his tune "who the fuck wanna fuck with me who the fuck wanna fuck with me"? I'm not saying that was political, but it was absolutely awesome. QUOTE]

Fantastic.

Superstition
23-08-2005, 04:47 PM
Doogz has loads of lyrics that could be described as "conscious". If anyone's heard the 2 Fast 2 Ferocious mix CD he did with Skibadee, there's plenty on that. They're mostly spat over hip-hop instrumentals though, so I don't know whether or not that disqualifies them as "grime" bars.

h-crimm
23-08-2005, 04:48 PM
listening to rinse right now... its target. he just said "the next one its about everything thats happening in the world especially london at the moment" so far its pretty rubbish :S
uhhhh oh its that "everybody's a terrorist suspect..." we just got a rewind :( it is swag tho
yep the MC is not so good, not at all

mms
23-08-2005, 05:18 PM
listening to rinse right now... its target. he just said "the next one its about everything thats happening in the world especially london at the moment" so far its pretty rubbish :S
uhhhh oh its that "everybody's a terrorist suspect..." we just got a rewind :( it is swag tho
yep the MC is not so good, not at all

yeah my girlfriend thought it was rubbish when i poinred out the track on the radio, she thought the mc was wack - but still i was pretty suprised - thats quite a thing to say/recognise

Tactics
23-08-2005, 07:11 PM
Purple, L-Man, Faction G, Dizzee (in places) and the biggest of them all Durrty Goodz. If garage/grime/nukg actually tackled politics especially from the african/african caribbean perspective I think I could give the music more respect but until then...

mms
23-08-2005, 07:39 PM
Purple, L-Man, Faction G, Dizzee (in places) and the biggest of them all Durrty Goodz. If garage/grime/nukg actually tackled politics especially from the african/african caribbean perspective I think I could give the music more respect but until then...

why would they tackle politics from an african/ caribbean perspective and what do you mean?

why would that get more respect from you ?
just interested

petergunn
23-08-2005, 08:05 PM
that Wiley line

"I know trouble but Trouble says he don’t know you, I know Ghetto but Ghetto says he don’t know you, I know Sufferah bgut Sufferah says he don't know you”

was an interesting line...

i like Grime has alot of IMPLICIT politics, as opposed to EXPLICIT. Something like "sittin' here" on the first dizzee record is to me, alot more interesting than someone yelling "Tony Blair, we have no money, free the ghetto!". I think in some grime songs you get personal politics, someone painting a picture of their world... hopefully grime can get the balanxe dancehall has between high energy club tunes and conscious music...

Tactics
23-08-2005, 08:09 PM
why would they tackle politics from an african/ caribbean perspective and what do you mean?

why would that get more respect from you ?
just interested

I should have explained myself more. I mean if the majority of the MC's, obviously those coming from African/African Caribbean backgrounds, spoke about things politically from their own cultural perspective then they would definately get more respect from me and I dont mean that pussyfooting version of 'politics' that Blackdown allluded to earlier. All this shanking and n**** this, that nonsense aint contrustive its deconstructive. 'We' obviously aint learned from America.

I find it a hell of a shame that L-Man is one of the biggest spitters out of a load of MC's. That's a damn shame imo.

gumdrops
23-08-2005, 09:09 PM
that Wiley line

"I know trouble but Trouble says he don’t know you, I know Ghetto but Ghetto says he don’t know you, I know Sufferah bgut Sufferah says he don't know you”

was an interesting line...

i like Grime has alot of IMPLICIT politics, as opposed to EXPLICIT. Something like "sittin' here" on the first dizzee record is to me, alot more interesting than someone yelling "Tony Blair, we have no money, free the ghetto!". I think in some grime songs you get personal politics, someone painting a picture of their world... hopefully grime can get the balanxe dancehall has between high energy club tunes and conscious music...

agreed. i dont want fist-pumping, head-in-hands blatant stabs at dealing with leftist politics like what dog-z does, especially if its going to be so misinformed or naive. i might as well find my old asian dub foundation records for something like that (which i do not want to do). tracks like sittin here are fine with me. re: that wiley lyric, that sounds like hes borrowed it from some dancehall tunes.

mms
23-08-2005, 09:32 PM
I should have explained myself more. I mean if the majority of the MC's, obviously those coming from African/African Caribbean backgrounds, spoke about things politically from their own cultural perspective then they would definately get more respect from me and I dont mean that pussyfooting version of 'politics' that Blackdown allluded to earlier. All this shanking and n**** this, that nonsense aint contrustive its deconstructive. 'We' obviously aint learned from America.

I find it a hell of a shame that L-Man is one of the biggest spitters out of a load of MC's. That's a damn shame imo.

i'm still not sure what you mean - i think most grime mcs are teenagers or in their 20s and were probably born or at least brought up in britain.
i think this is more important than the implied assumption of rich perspective cos some of their parents might be from the caribbean or africa.
it's interesting that you mention learning from america cos this is part of what politicises grime in a sense, the british/american/caribbean/african influence and the reality of growing up in dirty old london. that whole conundrum thats invented so much of grimes language and the personal perspective. Rather that than ranting diatribes against george bush anyday i reckon.

head
23-08-2005, 09:53 PM
was just listening to roll deep's 'people don't know', it's actually got a general political slant; it's not exactly putting forth a solution like people were mentioning earlier in the thread, but drawing attention to the difficulties of the lower classes.

the whole roll deep album is amazing; probably my top album of the year so far

gumdrops
24-08-2005, 11:45 AM
xpost - correct me if im wrong, but i think tactics just means he'd like to see more grime MCs tackling issues pertinent to the black community in london/the UK.

countryman
24-08-2005, 11:54 AM
was just listening to roll deep's 'people don't know', it's actually got a general political slant; it's not exactly putting forth a solution like people were mentioning earlier in the thread, but drawing attention to the difficulties of the lower classes.

the whole roll deep album is amazing; probably my top album of the year so far


'People Don't Know' is one of my favourite tracks off that album for the lyrics in the Donae'o chorus. Check out some of Donaeo's (hopefully) forthcoming material here:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=79724

'Tell Me' is really good.

SIZZLE
24-08-2005, 12:17 PM
there's a few moving on dub with more political ideas:

Silence - Misty Dubs has a purple verse: 'Purple did not vote/cuz the government brings the guns in..." He seems to be one of the more consciously conscious lyricists out there right now and has been for a while.

Moving - The Cream is an anti gun tune, with a first verse from I think it's Bashy (?!) doing an "I have a dream" one-line that's quite good, many of the MCs on there come on a more thoughtful political tip, plus the Danny Weed riddim doesnt hurt either, big tune I reckon.

Donaeo - Bounce is old but pretty explicit 'Don't do druugs, just have sex'.

And there a few other flickers, Skepta shouting out Marcus Garvey on sets lately, JME with his Don't Chat lyrics...

gumdrops
24-08-2005, 12:19 PM
perhaps this is too cynical, but i admired that song more than i liked it. i thought it was pretty corny. it didnt help that the over-melismatic singing on the chorus reminded me of any number of other melodramatic US hip hop tracks.

countryman
24-08-2005, 12:38 PM
perhaps this is too cynical, but i admired that song more than i liked it. i thought it was pretty corny. it didnt help that the over-melismatic singing on the chorus reminded me of any number of other melodramatic US hip hop tracks.

I agree it is a little corny but I think that helps acessibility for those who wouldn't normally listen to politically concious lyrics. In terms of getting a message across through music this seems to be the only way to make any sort of significant penetration at the moment :(

Memes
24-08-2005, 01:47 PM
anyone heard this? It's very political, Wiley talks guns and politicians and police searches, 'who made the guns, who are the founders' 'them politicians they don't like us, they wanna see us self-destruct.'

It's a great verse actually

J

mms
24-08-2005, 02:22 PM
anyone heard this? It's very political, Wiley talks guns and politicians and police searches, 'who made the guns, who are the founders' 'them politicians they don't like us, they wanna see us self-destruct.'

It's a great verse actually

J
Yeah this is the track i mentioned in my first post - it's an interesting one if a little conspiratorial, i think someone else mentioned this one too - its on the roll deep lp and had taken on more weight lately

hint
24-08-2005, 05:44 PM
Yeah this is the track i mentioned in my first post - it's an interesting one if a little conspiratorial, i think someone else mentioned this one too - its on the roll deep lp and had taken on more weight lately

Change is a different track, but Wiley uses the same lyrics. Uptown have it in stock now.

Ach!
24-08-2005, 07:05 PM
heard one interesting one that was going on about 'we're all terror suspects ' the other night and talking about the aftermarth of the bmbings abd fearing the tube.

I think that was a track by MC Dream. Luka could tell you more about his political lyrics.

qwerty south
24-08-2005, 08:14 PM
the aforementioned durrty goodz song:

http://rapidshare.de/files/4330391/Dutty_Doogz_-_Pulse.mp3.html

Tactics
25-08-2005, 06:18 PM
xpost - correct me if im wrong, but i think tactics just means he'd like to see more grime MCs tackling issues pertinent to the black community in london/the UK.


gumdrops jus murked with this reply.

yup bang on.

Tactics
25-08-2005, 06:28 PM
there's a few moving on dub with more political ideas:

Silence - Misty Dubs has a purple verse: 'Purple did not vote/cuz the government brings the guns in..." He seems to be one of the more consciously conscious lyricists out there right now and has been for a while.

Moving - The Cream is an anti gun tune, with a first verse from I think it's Bashy (?!) doing an "I have a dream" one-line that's quite good, many of the MCs on there come on a more thoughtful political tip, plus the Danny Weed riddim doesnt hurt either, big tune I reckon.

Donaeo - Bounce is old but pretty explicit 'Don't do druugs, just have sex'.

And there a few other flickers, Skepta shouting out Marcus Garvey on sets lately, JME with his Don't Chat lyrics...

this is gonna sound bad but the 'Moving' track...like why? most of the mc's and singers are of African/African Caribbean heritage but they did a track for the Tsunami? when back home the no. of casualties the Tsunami had happens like everyday. I mean even with the Live 8 nonsense they could have tied something in....Bashy's verse interpolating Martin and namechecking Marcus would have made sense then...oh well.....

Purple is big...

I remember seeing Donaeo on the 32 once lol....

Skepta shouting out Marcus....rah...he goes further up in my list again.....

worrior
25-08-2005, 07:39 PM
Deep in the manor where the poverty’s physical
There’s not a lot sweet so most look miserable.
Dizzee, Get by

Polly Toynbee move aside.... ;)

SIZZLE
25-08-2005, 08:42 PM
Could be wrong but I think Moving is an anti-gun crime tune, don't think it's a tsunami one... Don't have it on tape, just heard it a few times on radio tho..

Melchior
25-08-2005, 11:48 PM
most of the mc's and singers are of African/African Caribbean heritage but they did a track for the Tsunami? when back home the no. of casualties the Tsunami had happens like everyday.

Figures please? Links?

Also, just because they're of african/caribean descent doesn't meant hat those places are home for them. As was said earlier, up thread.

sufi
26-08-2005, 12:05 AM
Fuck Da Goverment Ft Bruza (http://railtonroad.com/mp3/25%20-%20Fuck%20Da%20Goverment%20Ft%20Bruza.wma)

gumdrops
26-08-2005, 12:20 AM
most of these in-yer-face political tracks are kinda rub, lets be honest. not sure i need these. i think im happier listening to jammer recite the murkle man lyrics for the 904069th time. ;)

mms
26-08-2005, 12:41 AM
this is gonna sound bad but the 'Moving' track...like why? most of the mc's and singers are of African/African Caribbean heritage but they did a track for the Tsunami? when back home the no. of casualties the Tsunami had happens like everyday. I mean even with the Live 8 nonsense they could have tied something in....Bashy's verse interpolating Martin and namechecking Marcus would have made sense then...oh well.....

Purple is big...

I remember seeing Donaeo on the 32 once lol....

Skepta shouting out Marcus....rah...he goes further up in my list again.....


i still think you're assuming quite alot on behalf of these guys - i think the here and now and who they are like in an other genre of music - especially as grime is so localised and london centric it's the way they are and will be and express their thoughts and deeds.
this is partly what 'concious' artists have alwaya done anyway, localised politics.
anyway the tsunami is big and fucking mad, so i don't think its the right thing to ask why. :)

gumdrops
22-09-2005, 12:56 PM
grime basically poses no real threat to the establishment if you think about it. sure its made by angry, young, british black youth, who havent really had a 'voice' by and large, but much of its anger is just posturing, and its vacuous. what are they angry at? nothing. its all just reactionary anger and empty bluster, aggression for the sake of it. if grime artists really represented some sort of counter culture to the mainstream, it would be a different matter, but grime by and large, doesnt aspire to present an image and viewpoint that's all that different to the one being espoused by american rappers, its just being expressed in a different medium with its own individual, more localised style.

Tactics
22-09-2005, 03:10 PM
grime basically poses no real threat to the establishment if you think about it. sure its made by angry, young, british black youth, who havent really had a 'voice' by and large, but much of its anger is just posturing, and its vacuous. what are they angry at? nothing. its all just reactionary anger and empty bluster, aggression for the sake of it. if grime artists really represented some sort of counter culture to the mainstream, it would be a different matter, but grime by and large, doesnt aspire to present an image and viewpoint that's all that different to the one being espoused by american rappers, its just being expressed in a different medium with its own individual, more localised style.

that is of a more sinister nature but it'll probably fall on 'deaf' ears here...great post though..

btw 'drops I have to have to say you murked it on saying Trim was the garage/grime/NUKG version of Roots Manuva...after some thought that is a heavy comparison....

Paul Hotflush
22-09-2005, 03:22 PM
grime basically poses no real threat to the establishment if you think about it. sure its made by angry, young, british black youth, who havent really had a 'voice' by and large, but much of its anger is just posturing, and its vacuous. what are they angry at? nothing. its all just reactionary anger and empty bluster, aggression for the sake of it. if grime artists really represented some sort of counter culture to the mainstream, it would be a different matter, but grime by and large, doesnt aspire to present an image and viewpoint that's all that different to the one being espoused by american rappers, its just being expressed in a different medium with its own individual, more localised style.

Agree.

mms
22-09-2005, 11:14 PM
what are they angry at? nothing.















indifference, i dunno there are a thousand things...

DonRuba
24-09-2005, 01:28 AM
Fuck Da Goverment Ft Bruza (http://railtonroad.com/mp3/25%20-%20Fuck%20Da%20Goverment%20Ft%20Bruza.wma)

I was just going to drop this one, thought it was strange that the thread went on for so long before someone mentioned it.

That really was the tune that drew my attention to how little grime MC's chat about politics, since it felt so unique when Bashy & Bruza all of a sudden did it on this one.

gumdrops
22-12-2005, 12:46 PM
theres a footsie track called what can i do (i think thats the name) thats pretty good and talks about police harassment and a few other weighty topics. its pretty good actually. not really a grime song though, could be from any other uk hip hop artist