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simon silverdollar
18-11-2004, 03:23 PM
check the review for forward riddim on the hmv site http://www1.hmv.co.uk/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ctx=280;-1;-1;-1&sku=334900e:



it's pretty much identical to my words on it for stylus magazine!!! fuckers have bitten my bars!!!
i'm gonna e-mail them, see if i can't get The Man to give me some credit...

and gonna put a 'all material copyright simon hampson 2004' thing on my blog.
shameless...

anyway, sorry i guess this isn't really interesting for anyone else...

john eden
18-11-2004, 03:29 PM
Au contraire - it's very interesting for a number of reasons:

Proves people do read blogs and feel they are a good resource.

Proves some unscrupulous people feel they can profit out of our work (which we do for the love, maaaan!)

Flags up the rip offs and gives us all an opportunity to vent against The Man (maaaaaan!).

Remember that kerfuffle over the Woebot (TWANBOC?) Sylvian haircuts piece?

Bring it ON!!! :mad:

john eden
18-11-2004, 03:30 PM
nobody ever rips me off, the bastards :(

Diggedy Derek
18-11-2004, 03:32 PM
That's really outrageous. Obviously nicked.

Anyway, isn't the FWD rhythm, aka Pow, out on in January now, according to Richie Vibe Vee last night? Not only that but the 679 records Run The Roads compilation doesn't seem to be out yet (Play say a couple of weeks till it's out).

mms
18-11-2004, 03:42 PM
the only thing i;ve read about run the roads in the mainstream press is simon reynolds review in the guardian which is well disappointing, (the lack of coverage and not the review)
not read any online reviews or that about it .

Woebot
18-11-2004, 04:09 PM
it's pretty much identical to my words on it for stylus magazine!!! fuckers have bitten my bars!!!
i'm gonna e-mail them, see if i can't get The Man to give me some credit...
thats well out of order!

xero
18-11-2004, 04:12 PM
lazy cheapskate motherfuckers - instead of paying people to research & write reviews for them, they just get some hapless minion to trawl the blogs for material written by folks they assume will not have the resources to sue their arses

bun-u
18-11-2004, 04:25 PM
Simon, you start working on your ‘reply’ bars now and get them laid down for logan’s show on Friday. Here’s a starter…

'Bare people seen my review
But it got bit by the hmv crew'

simon silverdollar
18-11-2004, 04:29 PM
Simon, you start working on your ‘reply’ bars now and get them laid down for logan’s show on Friday. Here’s a starter…

'Bare people seen my review
But it got bit by the hmv crew'


ha ha, wicked!!

what's the thing about woebot + sylvian's haircuts btw?

john eden
18-11-2004, 04:35 PM
Matt did a great post on David Sylvian's haircuts through the ages and then some mag did a "David Sylvian's fashion styles through the ages" - initially it was rumoured to be just about his haircuts tho. So similar, but by no means blatant...

er, iirc.

martin
18-11-2004, 04:47 PM
I sympathise, I'm sick of seeing my posts reappearing in Women's Own

captain easychord
18-11-2004, 04:55 PM
i've recognised a similar situation here in toronto. there's a journalist named martin turenne who has been ransaking the blogs for about a year now in search of material. he writes for a free national music magazine called : EXCLAIM. over the past year i've been greeted with articles about: favela funk, grime, screwed music and other bloggy delights. in particular he seems enamored with woebot and simon reyonlds. his plagirism of SR is particularly brazen; in an article about grime he uses the terms "gutter garage" which, as far as i can tell, was coined by SR, without due credit, and his article is an almost carbon copy of the article SR wrote in the village voice. check it out. am i off-base?

http://www.exclaim.ca/index.asp?layid=22&csid=1&csid1=1813

compared to...

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0306/reynolds.php

i'm consisdering writing an article to the magazine, but i think it might be best for SR to deal with it himself if he sees fit.

????

luka
18-11-2004, 05:06 PM
simon, if i was you i would find the name of the person who wrote it and let them know you're not happy about it.

although open plagirism is rare blogs are exploited for information and trend-spotting all the time. most journalists are sensible enough to rephrase the information in their own words however. with something like grime where there is so little information available its inevitable that journalists will turn to blogs/ google any grime mc you can think of and both heronbone and silverdollar will come straight up. i'm not sure its necessarily a bad thing, after all i started heronbone to spread the gospelas it were and although i'm less then happy with people reading it(nad reynolds, ingram, you etc) then pretending to know about grime instead of admitting where they got the info (and how they've framed the discussion blahblah)from its unrealistic to expect anything else. thats a journalists job.thats why i was very happy and excitied to see matt credited for his shanty house theory.

simon silverdollar
18-11-2004, 05:19 PM
simon, if i was you i would find the name of the person who wrote it and let them know you're not happy about it.

although open plagirism is rare blogs are exploited for information and trend-spotting all the time. most journalists are sensible enough to rephrase the information in their own words however. with something like grime where there is so little information available its inevitable that journalists will turn to blogs/ google any grime mc you can think of and both heronbone and silverdollar will come straight up. i'm not sure its necessarily a bad thing, after all i started heronbone to spread the gospelas it were and although i'm less then happy with people reading it(nad reynolds, ingram, you etc) then pretending to know about grime instead of admitting where they got the info (and how they've framed the discussion blahblah)from its unrealistic to expect anything else. thats a journalists job.thats why i was very happy and excitied to see matt credited for his shanty house theory.

-yeah, nice one Matt! good to see you getting the kind of careful and respectful recognition you deserve [and that, too often, journalists don't give, as luka says...like, the first thing alex petridis should have said in that anti-blogging review of wiley's album was, 'i only heard of dizzee and wiley because of heronbone, woebot and blissblog'. but he didn't, of course].

sorry, i don't want to turn this into an anti-journalism thread. they're are some lovely journalists out there, and many come on dissensus.

MolexRoots
18-11-2004, 05:27 PM
HMV: fuckin' capitalist bastards. And yeah. Richie Vee said FWD is out Janurary.

simon silverdollar
18-11-2004, 05:34 PM
January?
shit, that's a long time to wait. hope the hype about forward hasn't died down by then. i'm still hoping for a top 10 chart position for it.

hint
18-11-2004, 06:05 PM
of course, it's possible that the review has been incorporated into the press release / sales notes and that HMV are just copying and pasting that... loads of shops tend to do this for their "reviews", especially the bigger chains.

mms
18-11-2004, 06:17 PM
of course, it's possible that the review has been incorporated into the press release / sales notes and that HMV are just copying and pasting that... loads of shops tend to do this for their "reviews", especially the bigger chains.


tis possible, as pressales hype helps on the sales notes but usually the shops just copy and paste the sales notes/press release in that case, as do slack journalists.

Chef Napalm
19-11-2004, 04:17 PM
I realise that this is slightly off topic, but I came across this recently and this thread reminded me of it. The following links detail a dust-up between the Wooster Sticker Collective (a graffiti enthusiasts website) and an American publishing company, IDW. The company was accused of plaigerising the work of London graffiti artists, Banksy.

IDW Bites Banksy (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/idw-bites-banksy.html)
Update 1 (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/update-idw-bites-banksy.html)
Update 2 (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/update-2-idw-bites-banksy.html)
IDW Hates WSC (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/idw-hates-us.html)
Art vs. Deception (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/art-vs-deception.html)
Update 3 (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/idw-update.html)
Resolution (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/resolution-with-idw.html)

Seemed relevant, since both graffiti and blogging are art for art's sake.

carlos
19-11-2004, 04:21 PM
i wrote an article about merzbow around 1997- it's been online since around then.

maybe i'm just being paranoid- i've noticed certain elements of that article pop up in other articles written about merzbow since then. most notably the edwin pouncey-penned feature in the wire a couple of years back.

it just might be me my ego and imagination though...

also- the article is online without any blurb about copyright so i'm not exactly complaining (too much)

Diggedy Derek
19-11-2004, 04:42 PM
That's a tricky one, that Simon Reynolds vs. Exclaim one. On the one hand, he bases the article around a lot of SR's ideas (it may as well say "impossible without SR"); on the other hand, he does credit SR (although not as fully as he should do), and most of what's there looked different to me.

Repackaging ideas in circulation, writing them up for a new market that hasn't heard about the scene- at least it helps spread the word. Mind you, should be much more credit I guess.

stelfox
19-11-2004, 05:39 PM
I realise that this is slightly off topic, but I came across this recently and this thread reminded me of it. The following links detail a dust-up between the Wooster Sticker Collective (a graffiti enthusiasts website) and an American publishing company, IDW. The company was accused of plaigerising the work of London graffiti artists, Banksy.

IDW Bites Banksy (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/idw-bites-banksy.html)
Update 1 (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/update-idw-bites-banksy.html)
Update 2 (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/update-2-idw-bites-banksy.html)
IDW Hates WSC (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/idw-hates-us.html)
Art vs. Deception (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/art-vs-deception.html)
Update 3 (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/idw-update.html)
Resolution (http://www.woostercollective.com/2004/11/resolution-with-idw.html)

Seemed relevant, since both graffiti and blogging are art for art's sake.

whoah there! i don't think even the most ardent fan could ever say that banksy's work is art for art's sake!

Chef Napalm
19-11-2004, 07:09 PM
whoah there! i don't think even the most ardent fan could ever say that banksy's work is art for art's sake!

Why not? Is there some element of reward for Banksy that I am unaware of? Is he/she being paid to one-up him/herself? Sure, there's an degree of shameless self-promotion in Banksy's stuff, but there is also powerful social commentary, not to mention the fact that every piece I've ever seen has been burned on my brain.

Powerful images + acidic social commentary - monetary gain = "Art for the sake of it", in my opinion.





'Course, I'm an engineer, so what the hell do I know about art?

be.jazz
19-11-2004, 08:18 PM
Well, maybe some journalists aren't clued up enough to steal info, cf. the NYT review (http://movies2.nytimes.com/2004/11/19/movies/19jand.html) of the Jandek documentary that fails to mention that the subject revealed himself.

john eden
19-11-2004, 10:16 PM
Powerful images + acidic social commentary - monetary gain = "Art for the sake of it", in my opinion.


I also really like his stuff and attitude, but he does sell canvasses for big bucks and has done commisons for big names like Blur.

I'm not expecting him to starve, but it's simply not the case that he does it all for no monetary gain. Indeed, you could argue that the value of his canvasses etc rely on the "street cred" of his graff work. So if you were being bad you could argue that the graff is the marketing for the commercial stuff! But obviously it's more complex than that...

Everyone has to eat, and I'm sure Banksy could be cashing in much more than he is...

mms
19-11-2004, 10:26 PM
yep puma too.

originaldrum
20-11-2004, 09:30 AM
fuckers have bitten my bars!!!






fuckin dogs.....


always sniffin around - though i'm not surprised, i dare say this won't be the last time we see kid serious get bit but