Galloway vs Hitchens

luka

Well-known member
wow. the two most pompous, self-serving, scumbags on one stage. neither listens to the other. neither makes a single cogent point. very childish. also quite funny. i reccommend it.
 

Circus Lupus

Circus Of Wolves
Galloway: "You did write like an angel but your now working for the devil and damn you and all your works."

Wow! Sounds like middle aged alcoholic queens in a lover's spat.

I honestly laughed so hard listening to this I almost puked. I concur with luka that this pompous claptrat has great entertainment value and little else.

I wonder how Hitchens' second hand exculpations play with Iraq's numerous secular educated thinkers. Does having six satellite tv channels of political discourse make up for having all your relatives vaporised by US empire 'SMART' weapons?

I do fancy the diminutive timekeeper Elizabeth Wrigley Field. Meow...

The sickening approving howling of the Anglophile NPR listening leftie audience convinced me that most Yanks want a return to being ruled by someone with a British accent. Don't you lot still have some royal family hanging around?
 

BewareTheFriendlyStranger

pioneers of the groove
Hitchens is a strange strange strange person. From what i gather of his speeches and articles, he's a heartfelt Trotskyite humanist. WTF why is suddenly supporting the neo-con oil baron robbers warmongerers ?
 

Melchior

Taking History Too Far
Circus Lupus said:
I wonder how Hitchens' second hand exculpations play with Iraq's numerous secular educated thinkers. Does having six satellite tv channels of political discourse make up for having all your relatives vaporised by US empire 'SMART' weapons?

Who knows? He claims they love him but never provides evidence.
 

Paul Hotflush

techno head
What the mutual embrace of Hitchens and the neocons tells us is that Hitchens’s assessment of neoconservatism is essentially correct: the regnant force in American conservatism today is warmed-over Trotskyism, which views America merely as the embodiment of the ideology of global revolution.

I do think that the European left's anti-neocon dogma is more to do with xenophobia than anything else.
 

k-punk

Spectres of Mark
Paul Hotflush said:
What the mutual embrace of Hitchens and the neocons tells us is that Hitchens’s assessment of neoconservatism is essentially correct: the regnant force in American conservatism today is warmed-over Trotskyism, which views America merely as the embodiment of the ideology of global revolution.

I do think that the European left's anti-neocon dogma is more to do with xenophobia than anything else.

Whereas bombing a country which most Americans couldn't even find on a map indicates a healthy and positive attitude towards other nations and cultures, I suppose?
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
I do think that the European left's anti-neocon dogma is more to do with xenophobia than anything else.?

mr hotflush, i know your positions are taken after extensive reading- could you provide evidence of this?

k-punk said:
Whereas bombing a country which most Americans couldn't even find on a map indicates a healthy and positive attitude towards other nations and cultures, I suppose?

its all right, we've got god on our side ;)
 

Paul Hotflush

techno head
matt b said:
mr hotflush, i know your positions are taken after extensive reading- could you provide evidence of this?

Matthew, surely you realise that this isn't the kind of thing you can just whip out a nice neat piece of evidence for?!

However, the fact that neocon ideas are in fact much closer to traditional leftwing thought than tradidtional conservatism should point you in the right direction. And this quote from the ever-eloquent K-Punk should also help you out:

k-punk said:
Whereas bombing a country which most Americans couldn't even find on a map indicates a healthy and positive attitude towards other nations and cultures, I suppose?

Nice one K-Punk, succinctly illustrated my point there.

Most lefty critiques of the neocons centre on the over-arching American dominance bit, rather than the actual detail. If they paid a bit more attention, they'd more than likley find themselves agreeing to more of it than they'd care to admit.
 

k-punk

Spectres of Mark
Paul Hotflush said:
Nice one K-Punk, succinctly illustrated my point there.

How's that? Being anti US foreign policy isn't the same as being xenophobic.

Most lefty critiques of the neocons centre on the over-arching American dominance bit, rather than the actual detail. If they paid a bit more attention, they'd more than likley find themselves agreeing to more of it than they'd care to admit.

such as?
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
Paul Hotflush said:
Matthew, surely you realise that this isn't the kind of thing you can just whip out a nice neat piece of evidence for?! .

err, why not? especially as you are essentially calling everyone on 'the left' (whatever that means to you), racists.

Paul Hotflush said:
However, the fact that neocon ideas are in fact much closer to traditional leftwing thought than tradidtional conservatism should point you in the right direction.

what are you on about?? i can see how people like hitchens move easily from trotskyism to neo-con (they both believe that elites should govern 'the masses'), but your sentence makes no sense.
 

Paul Hotflush

techno head
k-punk said:
How's that? Being anti US foreign policy isn't the same as being xenophobic.

Your previous comment wasn't just about foreign policy though, was it?

matt b said:
what are you on about?? i can see how people like hitchens move easily from trotskyism to neo-con (they both believe that elites should govern 'the masses'), but your sentence makes no sense.

You obviously don't know much about neocon thought (it's not just about bombing a-rabs, you know!). Alternatively, you don't know much about traditional left/right ideology.
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
Paul Hotflush said:
You obviously don't know much about neocon thought (it's not just about bombing a-rabs, you know!). Alternatively, you don't know much about traditional left/right ideology.

ok. enlighten / educate me.

thanks in advance.
 
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