Do I like dubstep?

Blackdown is probably the best person to answer this (and I'm sure he will shortly!) but from my point of view, I think you just have to accept that the divisions simply aren't very clear.

Assume that the sort of music that Hatcha and Youngsta currently play (ie Loefah, Digi Mystikz, Skream etc) is 'pure' dubstep. Some people might call Toasty dubstep, or even grime, or maybe breakstep. He's sort of involved in that scene, but his stuff is more breaks-influenced (he's a big Metalheadz fan). having said that, some of his most recent dubs are very stripped back half-steppers in the purest sense. Plasticman is often referred to as a dubstep artist due to his south london origins, but he's not even that interested in sub bass! he wants to be seen as Grime, I think. Vex'd are on a whole other level entirely, but for now we call them dubstep cos we don't know what the fuck else to call it.

Basically, it's all these different strands that have evolved from a mish-mash of jungle, UKG and 2-Step influences. Just think of it all as exciting 138-140bpm underground music. Or make up your own name for it!

There's a thin line between dubstep and grime at times.

Dubstep for me started back with Ghost, Darqwan, El-B, menta etc. and in all fairness the sound actually predates "Grime" or at least the term "dubstep" was coined long before that of even 8-bar.

Bigapple records was pretty much the purveyor of the dubstep sound and played a huge role in its shaping.
Had it not been for bigapple I don't even know if it would be where it is today.

are the tunes on your Gutterbreakz FM mixes mainly "dubstep"? I'm totally clueless about and confused by everything jungle/garage/2-step influenced... What would you call that wicked Geroyche track?

dubstep = largely south london based steppy dark garage sound that has come out of club Forward>>. think youngsta, hatcha, kode 9 (production-wise), digital mystikz, Loefah, Scuba, D1, skream, benga, El-B & Ghost, Horsepower, menta/artwork, pinch, random trio etc. no breaks. no mcs (as a primary focus anyway). as keith rightly says, this dark garage sound predates grime (for whatever that's worth).

breakstep = the decendent of what used to be called the breakbeat garage sound that has come out of club Forward>>. it's primary root was DJ EZ's adoption of d&b artist Zinc's experementation with slower tempos, '138 Trek.' for artists think Zinc/Jammin, Oris Jay/Darqwan, Zed Bias' older breakier stuff, Search & Destroy, Toasty, DJ Distance, Hotflush recordings, later Slaughter Mob etc.

grime = largely east london (though all parts of london rep for grime) based inner city culture that has come out of raves like Sidewinder and pirate radio stations like Deja Vu and Rinse FM. MC/riddim focused not track focused ie lyrical not an emphasis on making people dance. think dizzee rascal, wiley & roll deep, slimzee, target, terror danjah, geeneus, black ops, doctor, nasty crew, ruff sqwad and yes plastic man.

Vex'd have come along after these camps have formed, have brought in their own influences from outside, and formed their own sound. pretty much no one sounds like them, which is impressive. as a consequence of their own vision, however, they dont fit into any of the three lose groupings above. which is no bad thing to be honest.

two points of confusion...

Plasticman's first release was on DJ Slimzee's label Slimzos. since Slimzee pretty much ran grime 2002-2003, this is a very much a grime beginning. Plasticman also got involved with club Forward>> playing his style of grime there. since he focused his sound on production not MCs, putting more variations per track than are required if you have an MC to cover it, they could be listened to on their own. hence it worked well at Forward>> and he was well accepted there. through that connection he got onto the rephlex 'grime' compilations...

Rephlex's 'grime' compilations did much to sell the sounds of urban london to outside audiences, but caused mass confusion re names. calling it 'grime' was a massive oversight since there already existed a sound called grime, and of all the tracks on both volumes, only Plastic was truly part of that sound (mark one has since headed more 'grimey' and lyrical, but was more breaky - as a former oris jay protege - back then).

shudder said:

are the tunes on your Gutterbreakz FM mixes mainly "dubstep"? I'm totally clueless about and confused by everything jungle/garage/2-step influenced...

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Generally speaking it could be called dubstep. That's my main point of focus But I'm no purist, I play across the board. DJ Oddz, for example, would usually be classed as a Grime artist (although actually he can't be classed as anything now cos he's 'deep in Islam' and given up music). Macabre Unit might also be classed as Grime, or even 8-Bar. Make up yer own mind innit.

shudder said:

What would you call that wicked Geroyche track?

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Who knows what's going on in his beautiful little German head? A lot of his other tunes are mad breakcore things. He's in a transitional phase, getting inspiration from dubstep but taking it somewhere else that's personal to him, which is to be encouraged I think.

for 1996 headz

grime = tupac/biggie

dubstep = dj shadow

minikomi said:

for 1996 headz

grime = tupac/biggie

dubstep = dj shadow

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Hah, I could almost see that.


replace Shadow w/ DJ Krush!

There is mass confusion with the genre names. Breaks heads tend to refer what Blackdown calls "breakstep" as "dubstep". Some people call "dubstep" "grime" etc.

Grime is a terrible name in any case. I think it came from that Dillinja tune originally - around 2001-2, the term was ubiquitous for anything "heavy". Confusingly, it then got adopted to the form of music.

I would agree with Blackdown's general definition of dubstep and grime. Not so sure about the "breakstep" thing though. I would call S&D and most (but not all) of the released Toasty stuff "underground breaks" (you might say this is splitting hairs, but I just don't like the term "breakstep"). Some Distance stuff comes under this category, but nearly all his newer stuff is straight up dubstep. Our label has put out some of this stuff, but also plenty of more dubby stuff and even a 4/4 garage track, so I wouldn't put us in one place.

sometimes...
at fwd>>
when i listen to dubstep, i feel like im being chased through the woods by a man with an axe

thank you

and....when he catches up to you he graciously hands you the axe and asks why are you running.

So you cut his head off.

clearly the drugs do work

Paul Hotflush said:

There is mass confusion with the genre names. Breaks heads tend to refer what Blackdown calls "breakstep" as "dubstep". Some people call "dubstep" "grime" etc.

Grime is a terrible name in any case. I think it came from that Dillinja tune originally - around 2001-2, the term was ubiquitous for anything "heavy". Confusingly, it then got adopted to the form of music.

I would agree with Blackdown's general definition of dubstep and grime. Not so sure about the "breakstep" thing though. I would call S&D and most (but not all) of the released Toasty stuff "underground breaks" (you might say this is splitting hairs, but I just don't like the term "breakstep"). Some Distance stuff comes under this category, but nearly all his newer stuff is straight up dubstep. Our label has put out some of this stuff, but also plenty of more dubby stuff and even a 4/4 garage track, so I wouldn't put us in one place.

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i thought the term was descriptive and came from Matt Jam Lamont saying 'i dont play any of that grimey garage...'. Hip hop was using the term long before Dillinjah's 'grimey' adopted it, it's on a Gangstarr LP from about 1998. it was just a term for musical description.


re breakstep: if the breaks boys want to settle on one term, i'll happily back it. i'm not about imposing names on scenes, it's always best if the producers decide for themselves.

and yeah, distance is definitely flexible. equally skream has done breaky tracks (lightning dub) and grimey stuff too ('request line' was designed as grime).

Yeh but it was the Dillinja track that made peope say it more. Maybe.

I don't think there are any breaks boys in this 'scene' anyway really. In any case, breaks is rubbish IMO. Got sent some new bassline stuff the other day and it really is terrible.

I love dubstep.

Period.

So do i!

Personally i prefer the breakier Search & Destroy, Toasty. Boxcutter vibe but im def down with Dubstep. Have followed it sine the first Big Apple releases. I just wish that the releases would come a little quicker....i suppose its a case of all good tings to those who wait.

There'll be a new Scuba before the end of the year, if that's any help...

Paul Hotflush said:

So do i!

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that's two of us !!!

Paul...check your PM's.