PDA

View Full Version : heads up londoners!



monkeysblood
27-09-2005, 10:03 PM
did you read this?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1575532,00.html

mildly concerning, no?
(excuse me if this is common knowledge)

Melchior
27-09-2005, 10:43 PM
at least they didn't just shoot him.

Paul Hotflush
28-09-2005, 09:23 AM
He's lucky they didn't!

At least the pigs are doing their job.

Melchior
28-09-2005, 10:02 PM
He's lucky they didn't!

At least the pigs are doing their job.

The harrasing inocent people part of their job?

matt b
29-09-2005, 12:33 PM
The harrasing inocent people part of their job?

seems to be, as is losing cctv footage, lying in court (this weeks private eye has no less than 2 examples), taking part in extra-judicial killings, but hey.

Paul Hotflush
29-09-2005, 01:04 PM
Yeh they haven't looked too clever with that one. Not quite sure why you have a problem with them taking dodgy looking rucksack-carriers off the street though. Presumerably you don't live in London.

Ian Blair has to be the biggest wanker is public office. Personally instigating a police investigation into Kate Moss' coke use? Does he really have nothing better to do?

k-punk
29-09-2005, 01:41 PM
Not quite sure why you have a problem with them taking dodgy looking rucksack-carriers off the street though. Presumerably you don't live in London.


I have a problem with it, and I live in London. What constitutes 'dodgy looking' for a start? And in this case, while a search might be legitimate, wtf did they go on to arrest him afterwards?

Paul Hotflush
29-09-2005, 01:43 PM
The guy had a French accent for fuck's sake. How dodgy do you want?

gabriel
29-09-2005, 02:20 PM
The guy had a French accent for fuck's sake. How dodgy do you want?

yawn

Paul Hotflush
29-09-2005, 02:29 PM
Yawn to "ooh the police are harrassing us." What a cliche. At least they're not as bad as the police in France/USA/Russia/Spain/Italy/China/AnywhereinAfrica/India/AnywhereinSouthAmerica etc etc...

Please, give me a stick to beat myself with.

Melchior
29-09-2005, 10:42 PM
Please, give me a stick to beat myself with.

Happily.

Melchior
30-09-2005, 12:11 AM
Let me expand.

I don't like police. All of my encounters with police have been harrasment. I've had friends hospitalised by the police. And this was primarily in NZ where the police are by most accounts fairly mild. Certainly more mild than the UK.

More than that, I don't like policing. I thinkt hat it focuses primarily on property crime and builds a street gang mentality in an institution that lacks real roots in communities. So yes, I have a political and personal bias against the insitutions of policing.

And no, I don't live in London and I don't have to worry about terrorism in the tube. But given that the police are pretty much powerless to do anything about terrorism I'd rather not have to worry about having a funny accent or beard or wrong skin colour, let alone what jacket I choose to wear down to the shops or to work.

The whole point of this sort of policing is to make people feel safer. And personally knowing that the police are still using dodgy methods that resulted in the murder of Jean Charles de Menezes to isolate people wouldn't make me feel any safer.

k-punk
30-09-2005, 06:27 AM
Yawn to "ooh the police are harrassing us." What a cliche. At least they're not as bad as the police in France/USA/Russia/Spain/Italy/China/AnywhereinAfrica/India/AnywhereinSouthAmerica etc etc...

Yes, that's SUCH a good argument... Because things are worse elsewhere that justifies things here?


Please, give me a stick to beat myself with.

Just wear clothes inappropriate to the season, have a foreign accent or look at the ground when passing policiemen, they will do the beating for you...

matt b
30-09-2005, 08:50 AM
Ian Blair has to be the biggest wanker is public office. Personally instigating a police investigation into Kate Moss' coke use? Does he really have nothing better to do?

there's nothing lazier than slagging off the [brits]. in any case, the notion that the [uk] is the only country ignoring the current legal setup is absurd. So why don't you guys bang on about the other offenders? Oh yeah, sorry I forgot.

Paul Hotflush
30-09-2005, 08:54 AM
Yes, that's SUCH a good argument... Because things are worse elsewhere that justifies things here?

No, but it means you should consider how lucky you are before you start whinging.


there's nothing lazier than slagging off the [brits]. in any case, the notion that the [uk] is the only country ignoring the current legal setup is absurd. So why don't you guys bang on about the other offenders? Oh yeah, sorry I forgot.

Good try, now try thinking of something of your own Matt. Considering how comical your position is, you Marxists don't have much of a sense of humour.

matt b
30-09-2005, 09:14 AM
Good try, now try thinking of something of your own Matt. Considering how comical your position is, you Marxists don't have much of a sense of humour.

yeah, you know NOTHING about me, make idiotic generalisations and then call me a marxist and an anti-american- do you have ANY evidence for these statements? lunatic.

Melchior
30-09-2005, 12:56 PM
No, but it means you should consider how lucky you are before you start whinging.

And how do you think that you got that lucky? Because of the bloody whingers, keeping an eye on the coppers.

k-punk
30-09-2005, 10:55 PM
Ignore Mr Hotflush, chaps, he's either a troll or he really believes what he's saying, which is worse...

monkeysblood
30-09-2005, 11:55 PM
Ignore Mr Hotflush, chaps, he's either a troll or he really believes what he's saying, which is worse...

here, here

3underscore
18-10-2005, 03:13 PM
I don't like police. All of my encounters with police have been harrasment. I've had friends hospitalised by the police. And this was primarily in NZ where the police are by most accounts fairly mild. Certainly more mild than the UK.

More than that, I don't like policing. I thinkt hat it focuses primarily on property crime and builds a street gang mentality in an institution that lacks real roots in communities. So yes, I have a political and personal bias against the insitutions of policing.


This really doesn't suggest you are coming from the best angle on this, other than to oppose, does it Melchior?!

I can understand people not liking what happened - the initial action of enquiring I support, but the whole idioticy that followed is worrying. Stopping people they see as suspects (without knowing he was French) is what they have been tasked to do.

As for the whole action of policing being harrasment and causing gang culture, I don't think I want to bother going into it. Safe to say, I think it is a strange viewpoint.

h-crimm
18-10-2005, 10:00 PM
i think melchior doesnt mean that policing causes gang culture, but that the isolated police group adopts a gang-like mentality.
they want to rule thier streets, they protect and cover for each other even when theyre wrong, thier ideas become closed.

i dont think his bad experience invalidates his concerns about the effectiveness of policing either, its evidence to support them.
by the nature of an exclusive police force who (however accidentally) enforce norms and conventions and check outsiders some people will experience problems and others wont.

policing obviously isnt harrassment if you have legal property to protect, but if your property is borderline legal or a concept (graffiti-art, a squat, a shanty dwelling, your sexuality, access to public space) and somehow the way you want to enjoy it is not normal, the police, grounded in the conventional, will naturally tend to harrass you.

Melchior
19-10-2005, 01:30 AM
As for the whole action of policing being harrasment and causing gang culture, I don't think I want to bother going into it. Safe to say, I think it is a strange viewpoint.

You slightly misunderstood, as h-crimm pointed out. The idea that police exist primarily to protect property and as a result harrass nearly automaticallly those who are not propertied isn't an original idea. It's a very common marxist/criminology critique of policing.

Obviously, no reason that you should agree, just saying I'm not all by myself on this one.

I think my point was that my experiences (and I coem froma very easy middle-class background) with the police (as police, when I've met off duty cops socially, I haven't had these issues) have been uniformly bad. I didn' grow up in a police hating environment, I wanted to eb a cop as a kid. But All my experiences have been bad. I'd hate to think what they would have been like if I was poor and black.