herbert - what do you reckon?

stelfox

Beast of Burden
thanks to the pepe braddock thread, i've just started thinking about herbert. i absolutely adore around the house and bodily functions (the latter being one of my favourite albums of all time, right up there in the top 10), have got quite a bit of pleasure from his Dr Rockit output and really admire him as a remixer.
his work as radioboy i actively don't like, however, and, after initially quite enjoying it it, the big band stuff leaves me pretty cold. i think a lot of my lack of enjoyment comes from knowing about the artist and the aims and objectives of the work.
i can't help feeling that the hailing of herbert as a great political thinker is somewhat ever-egging the pudding given that what he actually says is pretty sixth-form and not especially sophisticated. As for the his Personal Contract For The Composition of Music, while being quite interesting in a Dogme kind of way, um... well... what is the point, really, other than appealing to the worst enthusiasms of the avant-for-avant's-sake crew?
don't get me wrong, i really like a lot of what he's done, but that plat du jour project hasn't done a great deal for me at all. it's not that i don't like music that's overtly politicized, either, it's just that something seems to be missing here, it feels pretty sterile, polite and ineffectual.
 
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blunt

shot by both sides
Matthew Herbert's the fucking man, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't necessarily like everything he does. I take your point about his Radioboy output. I find his recordings under that particular moniker to be a bit clever-clever. BUT: if watching him *perform* as Radioboy is something else entirely. In fact, I think that's one of the reasons I like him so much: he's an amazing live performer - totally dedicated, and really, really engaging. Which is a real rarity in the world of electronic music (tho this is becoming the case less and less, and I think people like Herbert are partly responsible for that).

The other thing I like about him is the sheer diversity of his output. Listening to his sound evolve from the "100lbs" LP (which was the first thing I ever heard by him) thru to the present has been one of the greatest pleasures of my whole life. I count having someone like him around to soundtrack the last 10 years of my life, and have that soundtrack change in constantly surprising and engaging ways, as a real privilige.

So, yes, I think that "Plat Du Jour" is a bit clever-clever (tho, again, I anticipate next week's live show to be something else entirely). But his work on Róisín Murphy's album is just flawless. He (and, in fairness, she) can go from "If We're In Love" to "Off On It" and back to "The Closing Of The Doors" without even breaking a sweat. I can't honestly think of many other producers around who could pull that off.
 

drumzofthesouth

Georgie Dubstep
Ruby Blue is an incredible album... i don't really know anything else by matthew herbert, would u recommend the Radioboy stuff or not?
 

bassnation

the abyss
stelfox said:
, it's just that something seems to be missing here, it feels pretty sterile, polite and ineffectual.

i'm not a fan, i have to say. started off loving the first album, but the second was pretty noodly, coffee table kind of gear. he always makes such a big thing about using "found sounds" but whats the point of sampling yourself brushing your teeth if you use it for a dull sterile deep house record? hes got a pretty unique sound, i'll give him that - but personally not feeling the warmth that people always associate with him.
 

henry s

Street Fighting Man
I'm probably in a minority here, but Herbert's output offers me diminishing returns...I loved "100 lbs." (microhouse about 5 years ahead of the curve) and the early Dr. Rockit stuff on Clear..."Around The House" had a few great moments, but too much of it was just there...I guess that was the point, but it just doesn't engage me..."Bodily Functions" I found a bit too noodly, and I've not even heard the big band stuff or the food LP...(guess I'm none too qualified to rate this guy)...I do think he makes great, warm, crispy house music, and I wish he'd do a bit more of it...
 

tryptych

waiting for a time
Bodily Functions and Around the House are fantastic records, but my all-time favourite Herbert records are:

the one-sided 7" as Dr Rockit on Clear records - incredible bouncy, almost 2 step electro.

"Rose" - under his Wishmountain moniker. No-one's mentioned those Wishmountain EPs yet, but Rose is an incredibly beautiful piece, written after the death of his mother (I think).
 

Tim F

Well-known member
The emerging consensus here is correct - albums up to <i>Bodily Functions</i> plus <i>Ruby Blue</i> = greatness - but I can't be the only one here who listens to <i>Secondhand Sounds</i> much much much more than anything else.
 

Blackdown

nexKeysound
the Dr Rockitt LP on Clear is amazing. the three Herbert LPs too. but i can't bring myself to listen to Radioboy or the big band stuff.
 

jwd

Well-known member
I dunno, while I stand by Bodily Functions, Around The House and Secondhand Sounds - "Going Round" one of my favourite tracks ever - I love some of the Radioboy and Doctor Rockit stuff, too. And yeah, I hear you Stelfox re: the politics of records like Plat Du Jour, I guess it's 'simplistic', but I'd rather a gesture or intervention than... complete ignorance? I realise this argument can be torn apart fairly easily. I don't think Herbert's a 'great political thinker' - but I certainly appreciate that he is bothering to think politically.

I think it's too easy to write off post-Bodily Functions Herbert, there is some really good stuff in there. That argument just strikes me as a very typical and kinda boring position, lacking in engagement w/the work...

And yeah, Ruby Blue is amazing. Herbert needs to do a Secondhand Sounds sequel some time soon, too, if only to get his remixes of Karin Krog's "Meaning Of Love" and Charles Webster's "Ready" on CD.

And Wishmountain's "Rose" = astonishing!
 

blunt

shot by both sides
I think the reality is that you can't have the greatness of his more 'accessible' stuff - ie. the stuff that's being namechecked by Tim's 'emerging concensus' - without his more experimental Radioboy/Wishmountain work; elements of which crop up time and again on his subsequent Matthew/Herbert recordings.

Kind of like the bit in "Rip It Up" where Brian Eno talks about the importance of avant-garde/leftfield acts being that they stake out the boundaries of the territory. And like Herbert himself declared on his Tresor mix: "Let's All Make Mistakes" :)
 

bassnation

the abyss
jwd said:
I think it's too easy to write off post-Bodily Functions Herbert, there is some really good stuff in there. That argument just strikes me as a very typical and kinda boring position, lacking in engagement w/the work...

i dunno, i gave it a good few listens. maybe its a typical position because theres some truth in it (as much truth as you can get subjectively anyway)

actually, to be fair i once saw herbert performing in fabric which was the one good moment in an otherwise dreadful night (don't seem to get on with fabric as a club). he did this thing wearing these drum plates on his body and he went into this heavy percussive groove, beating his stomach, chest and legs to make the rhythm. absolutely amazing.
 
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owen

Well-known member
jwd said:
re: the politics of records like Plat Du Jour, I guess it's 'simplistic', but I'd rather a gesture or intervention than... complete ignorance? I realise this argument can be torn apart fairly easily. I don't think Herbert's a 'great political thinker' - but I certainly appreciate that he is bothering to think politically.

I totally agree with this- '6th form' is such a lazy way of dismissing someone trying to use their political views in some fashion (as used in about a million articles about the gang of four) why is it 6th form? is it ill-thought out? do you disagree with it? argue with the position if you like, but i don't see what on earth is wrong with some sort of dissension from all this relentless formalism (or indeed hip hop militarism and misogyny ;) )

having said that i've not heard 'plat du jour', and kind of wish he's mix something as faint-inducing as roisin murphy's 'sow into you' with a point by point lyrical critique of global kapital (heheheh)
 

AshRa

Well-known member
I find a lot of Herbert's stuff very samey (although that's probably because he's so prolific) but there's two songs of his that I never get bored of listening to...

The first Herbert record I ever got

Herbert & Dani Siciliano - So Now...


and the last one!

Charles Webster - Ready (Herbert's Steady Dub)
 

henry s

Street Fighting Man
too right about "So Now" (the sole survivor from "Around The House" on my iPod)...the other Herbert track I keep going back to is "Freeze", which was on one of those Freezone comps back in the day...maybe a bit too Paul Hardcastle, but lovely still...that's the Herbert I like...
 

stelfox

Beast of Burden
i don't really know the wishmountain stuff so well, but i should, by the sounds of it get hold of some. the tracks i love by herbert are you don't know me and you saw it all on bodily functions. there's just a feeling on those tracks which i'm not getting from the new stuff. i guess that i'm feeling that the concept is overwhelming the actual sound at the moment, which is a shame. i'm gonna download the roisin murphy album now, though and hopefully i'll lose any doubts i'm having. i really want music that's genuinely great and makes me happy at the moment, not that i have to judge relatively, according to the criteria of its production or its political merits. i guess that's why i'm having slight reservations.
 

michael

Bring out the vacuum
stelfox said:
As for the his Personal Contract For The Composition of Music, while being quite interesting in a Dogme kind of way, um... well... what is the point, really, other than appealing to the worst enthusiasms of the wire-reading crew?

If I were Matthew Herbert I wouldn't have published that, but I think it certainly has a point, for him.

As a muso / producer / nerrrrrrd I can say that imposing formal limitations can be fantastic fun. Really forces a bit of lateral thinking and trying out new methods to try and get to a similar pay-off to what you would like to do but are not allowed to. That sounds kinda masochistic, but it's great for forcing some re-thinks and all of that jazz.

I think someone mentioned this elsewhere (Woebot in the hater's [sic] thread?) but I find the distance between the concepts and the resultant music kinda lame. This is mainly thinking of the Radio Boy stuff, like The Mechanics of Destruction. "OK, McDonalds is shit and fast food culture is really problematic. So I'll do a track using only samples from a Happy Meal I bought." Eh??

I tend to think it's cool that he's doing something political with his music and I generally worry about the same things he seems to, so I'm not trying to say he should leave it out. I'm purely just thinking as a listening experience there seems to be this gulf between the underlying concept and what the music sounds like. I mean, the music in no way expresses his views. Maybe that's for the best... I dunno.

Sorry, not too well thought out... hopefully someone knows what I'm on about.
 

michael

Bring out the vacuum
Otherwise, Henry S. has stolen my opinions. ;) Haha... nah, I loved that "deep" early stuff. I also have that Clear compilation from however many years back, which has a few nice and mellow Dr Rockit tunes. 'So Now' is awesome. He's done some remixes I like - that Recloose one stands out, plus his more crusty take on that Moloko track that was most famous for the slicked up disco remix. 'Sing It Back'..

But otherwise he's someone I consider worthy, but don't like listening to.
 
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