Pr0n - what is it good for?

Pr0n - what is it good for

  • Absolutely nothing

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • Wanking tool

    Votes: 17 77.3%
  • Learning about sex and peoples bodies

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • Sexual aid

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • Orientation tester

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Aiding RSI

    Votes: 1 4.5%

  • Total voters
    22

Buick6

too punk to drunk
I like pr0n. I know it's unhealthy, and it degrades women and it creates a wrong attitude to women (and men) and sex. It has nothing to do with love apparently. But I like wanking off to it, and it helps me explore carnal ideas. I'm generally heterosexual so my favourite stars are:

Brigitte Lahaie,
Jeanna Fine
Jewel DeNyle
and numerous other that I can't remember of the top off my head.

I know I'm gonna get a barrage of vitriol aimed at me, but I'm curious to know if other Dissensans are into pr0n (or would admit it?)

Cheers

B6
 
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martin

----
I think it's too wide and diverse to form a single opinion about it all. I haven't seen any for ages, but I would be quite interested in checking out the squid, er , 'pRon' (?) I expect. I watched bukkake flicks a few years ago during some 'phase', I was interested in Nanami Kurosawa cos her films were so over the top - I think she became some sort of political campaigner afterwards - but again, I haven't watched any for yonks, once you've seen a few you might as well just be watching 'Changing Rooms'. As for straightforward stuff, forget it, couldn't care less. They never tell you the part where John Holmes died an intensely lonely, impotent drug addict.
 
squid porn? was it bataille who once compared hookers' bits to squid?

I'm keen on getting my hands on Klaus Kinski's Japanese porn flicks (if they really do exist), and possibly some elf porn (though not the cute kind...'hold the ears!'). But the flickering old in-out on the tubes can be a bit like watching leeches make it with ready meals...

about a year ago I was quite keen on resurrecting the category of 'religious porn', but it didn't really amount to much else than re-reading the dirty bits of Augustine's Confessions, listening to Masses and isolating bits of Botticelli paintings for vague, allusive brush-stroke smut. Plus, the St Teresa thing is way, way too obvious with regard to the catholic sex/death imaginary...

Am intrigued by the idea of porn with political overtones - no, not the Nazi stuff, too obvious vis-a-vis power-relations - but Communist/Anarchist = egalitarian porn! Plus the uniforms, obv.

Vintage porn is fantastic tho, obviously - women with massive arses and small (i.e. normal)-sized chests, plus ace hair and the odd feather and veil.

Er, or perhaps you just meant wank-rags and channel 'x'...
 
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nomos

Administrator
infinite thought said:
Am intrigued by the idea of porn with political overtones - no, not the Nazi stuff, too obvious vis-a-vis power-relations - but Communist/Anarchist = egalitarian porn! Plus the uniforms, obv.
Hakim Bey had a bit on this but I don't think it went very far. I'd love to see some attempts at it. It's really compelling, though I'm still unsure whether it's inherently flawed.

The mainstreaming of porn since the dawn of the web is a curious phenomenon that I think needs a little more critical attention. On one hand porn's coming out of the closet (considering the industry is worth something like USD$10bn the closet was getting pretty cramped) has led to new waves of alt.porn that have been pretty decent, particlarly where small-scale, women-run sites are concerned. (Though some of those are proving to be shams that are barely different from old-model stuff. Eg: the recent mass model defections at Suicide Girls reported on Wired ). On the other hand, for example, the (suggested/metaphoric) 'facial' has become an alarming ubiquity in advertising and entertainment of the last several years. Porn-ish memes are floating through pop culture in odd ways at the moment. Not always conscioulsy I think.
 
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In Moll

Active member
Don't watch or view porn too regularly or whatever, but can say that contemporary, mainstream makes me a bit queazy...perhaps all the razor bumps and scorched, leathery skin. I have to second the vintage porn vote (tho from a homosexual angle). I've always been a tom of finland fan. he ha.
 

Buick6

too punk to drunk
I've noticed how pr0n has rise in allaince with internet and indirectly homosexual culture. They are all 'out of the closet' and making masses and masses of money.

But contemp pron is too violent, too disgusting (I mean are people watching it for arousal or punishment?) too power-based and too 'functional' despite it being a purely functional product.
 
autonomicforthepeople said:
the (suggested/metaphoric) 'facial' has become an alarming ubiquity in advertising and entertainment of the last several years. Porn-ish memes are floating through pop culture in odd ways at the moment. Not always conscioulsy I think.

You're absolutely right about this - esp. with reference to 'facials' imagery. I tend to think it's all very conscious tho, esp. the ads - 'you're a worldy bloke with a high income. I know you might not want your girlfriend/mum to know you understand porn memes, but here's a knowing little reminder of the things you've watch that fall outside of your 'upright citizen' image/status'. Designed to make men feel a bit 'subversive' I think....and sell crap, obv.

That was interesting to discover about Suicide Girls, btw, automatic. I'd come across the site a few times (usually via live reviews of bands the girls had written about in their journals), and never really knew what to make of it (tho obv you can't see much if you don't join) - I guess it's good that 'alternative' girls get to post pictures of their bits, but you gotta wonder if they have many really over-weight/properly, ahem, non-conventionally attractive girls on their books. Despite the piercings, tats and make-up, most seem really rather obviously pretty to me.

The shifts in porn trends are interesting tho - from the pre-war vintage stuff (as noted, big arses, small breasts) to 50s pin-ups with naturally large breasts (all rather maternal, and some of these women were modelling for quite a few years), sixties porn I don't know anything about (anyone else?)...70s porn still remained rather 'natural' in some respects, the 'girl next door' of 'debbie does dallas', etc.

The pneumatic/hydraulic pornstars with their shaved, leathery bits I guess must have kicked in at some point in the 80s. But I'm not really sure why....any theories?

up for continuing the porn discussion if it remains interesting and non-base!
 

martin

----
I have a friend who made one and is apparently making another, the actors /actresses were all White Zombie fan-types, it was utterly stupid. I wrote him a script for one but he told me it was completely impractical, also I'm meant to be having a walk-on part in one where I come in dressed as a priest and deliver a rant about sodomites and the perils of 'devil rock', but this was all concocted in the Intrepid Fox and probably won't happen.

I'd quite like to see a subcultural porn epic - mods getting it on with teds, etc
 

mms

sometimes
infinite thought said:
The pneumatic/hydraulic pornstars with their shaved, leathery bits I guess must have kicked in at some point in the 80s. But I'm not really sure why....any theories?


something to do with the proliferation of porn due to the avaliabliity of vhs - it probably all got a little gynacological and fetishitically hypervisual from there on in - i mean whats the use of all those camera angles if you can't see the penetrations cos of all that pubic hair ?
and big breasts 'work ' more for porns moving image - as they bounce about they are a strong indicator that the porn star is getting a proper seeing too or whatever - it's all extremley phallocentric this style of course.

porn must be addictive like anything else - and it seems to get more and more violent as it gets older, rather than more creative or fun or experimental really - funny thing you say about porn memes - as especially US pornography seems to be a sort of accepted outlet for misogyny and violence, like a hidden undertow since the 60's and better rights for women etc ..so it's scripted and these girls have signed something and it's all 1st ammendment rights and operation democratic freedom .
 
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nomos

Administrator
infinite thought said:
I tend to think it's all very conscious tho, esp. the ads
Actually yeah, this is true. I think the main idea I was groping for was that it it can be more or less heavily encoded, sometimes making it harder to label and making the reception end of it a bit more difficult to read/predict. It seems as though pr0n-like performativity has become more ubiquitous in social realms (Eg: girl-on-girl performance for male viewers in nightclubs, highschools, non-porn net communities) without its actors necessarily being quite clear on the discourses they're engaging.

About the Suicide Girls - I think there may have been more variety of body types early on but that this has declined in inverse relation to the site's rising popularity. I also read this week that they have some sort of deal with Playboy.

mms said:
it seems to get more and more violent as it gets older, rather tahn more creative or fun or experimental really
It's like video games. So many possibilities, so many first-person shooters.

mms said:
as especially US pornography seems to be a barely accepted outlet for misogyny and violence, so it's scripted and these girls have signed something and it's all freedom of speech and operation democratic freedom
There's such a wide quarantine zone around the category of 'porn' that it skews the politics of it all. It also precludes much experimentation across its borders which is unfortunate. I saw Japanese film called IKU - sort of cyber art-porn - that was good in this respect. I'm not sure if there's more like it.
 
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bassnation

the abyss
infinite thought said:
You're absolutely right about this - esp. with reference to 'facials' imagery. I tend to think it's all very conscious tho, esp. the ads - 'you're a worldy bloke with a high income. I know you might not want your girlfriend/mum to know you understand porn memes, but here's a knowing little reminder of the things you've watch that fall outside of your 'upright citizen' image/status'. Designed to make men feel a bit 'subversive' I think....and sell crap, obv.

is this true? i must have missed those particular adverts or just not picked up on it.
 

bassnation

the abyss
autonomicforthepeople said:
There's such a wide quarantine zone around the category of 'porn' that it skews the politics of it all. It also precludes much experimentation across its borders which is unfortunate. I saw Japanese film called IKU - sort of cyber art-porn - that was good in this respect. I'm not sure if there's more like it.

sounds interesting, but i'd question whether people want art from their pornography.

it could be more fun, i'm sure everyone would be up for that, and god knows theres some ugly stuff out there (definitely agree about the undercurrent of misogny in the mainstream, it can give you a rather unpleasant window into some peoples souls) - but why burden a functional medium with high brow artistic ambitions when its hardly going to add to the core experience? theres plenty of non-porn art house films featuring full sex these days. surely if people want titallation under the pretext of art, thats where to go for it.

the suicide girls thing is interesting, but its all a bit goth - surely there is room for alternative porn that doesn't solely revolve around middle americas idea of what it means to be different?
 
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nomos

Administrator
There's a Grand Marnier ad running here where woman at party gives man with booze bottle a come-hither look, man dribbles creamy forbidden liquid on woman's dress, she licks her lipsetc. That's the most overt one I've seen.

Yeah, I'm not arguiing for porn in general to be rethought in more artistic terms since it does what it says on the tin and that's enough. But if there was something more interesting going on in the gap betweeen 'porn' and the more risque art house stuff I might want to check it out. IKU was only arty in the sense that it was visually intense and had an interesting if incoherent cyber narrative.

On the SG/goth thing, I think there was a site called RaverPorn. Same formula I guess.

EDIT - It might have been Bailey's not GM
 
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mms

sometimes
bassnation said:
the suicide girls thing is interesting, but its all a bit goth - surely there is room for alternative porn that doesn't solely revolve around middle americas idea of what it means to be different?


i liked the look of the suicide girls site cos they wear nice clothes and are all very pretty, which isn't saying anything - i just like pretty girls that have jet black hair and pale skin, but i've only looked at the free bits..
but it's hardly subversive, girls with piercings and tattoos in nice underware, saying risque things like how they enjoy sex , rock music, piercings and wearing nice underware, big wow.

i can't spell underware today and have no idea how to spell it so forgive me .

the suicide girls being bought out by playboy thing reminds me of this magazine called big brother than ran about ten years ago - it was an american skateboard magazine that was childish, rude, exploratory gonzo and somewhat imaginative and creative, it was bought out by hustler who replaced all the creativeness with the guys who later became jacksass self harm videos, soft pornography and beer swilling, so it's initial excitingness got turned into just another lazy shrug shouldered values .

still i read somewhere that in the uk that the amateur mags and videos sell much more than the pro stuff, which is interesting in itself.
 
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bassnation said:
is this true? i must have missed those particular adverts or just not picked up on it.

This one was relatively memorable from last year:

http://www.adrants.com/2004/11/vodaphone-gives-girl-facial-for.php

automaticforthepeople said:
It seems as though pr0n-like performativity has become more ubiquitous in social realms (Eg: girl-on-girl performance for male viewers in nightclubs, highschools, non-porn net communities) without its actors necessarily being quite clear on the discourses they're engaging.

This is absolutely right tho - many a club I've been to includes the sight of bemused faux-lesbian snogging (on tables or whatever), with a bunch of men cheering them out, whilst really not being able to work out where to look (at the girls? at each other?). The same goes for the girls (are they really supposed to be into it or is it just show for the boys?) - and you can always tell proper lesbian porn apart from the faked stuff depending on whether the girls are looking at each other or the camera.....
 

anhhh

Well-known member
lots of things to say about this, but seems like i cant think tonigth, so a link to check. its a blog about all things corcening porn and its written by a pornstar. its very funny and seems like its a clean place (no pop-ups, no spyware,...). also they use to check the alternative side of the genre. and also looking in the archives you could find the news about the couple who figth against deforestation fu***ng in public shows et al. also you have the option to podcasts. check:

www.fleshbot.com
 
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Buick6

too punk to drunk
martin said:
I'd quite like to see a subcultural porn epic - mods getting it on with teds, etc

I wrote a script like this called 'GIMMIE INDIE COCK' about 8 years ago!

These were three 'story lines'!

1. An enui ridden indie boy is too busy reading the NME than heeding his slightly overweight bob-cut C86-type girlfriend's amorous advances. Eventually his gives in when she undresses, she gives him a blowjob and he spunks on her nose coz he's a prat, and runs back to reading the exclusive 'Suede' interview!

2. A long-haired Stoner-rock grunge type is playing a pub gig while his semi-hippy earth-mother girfriend with tatts and a pierced belly-button that look like a 'White Zombie' type watches on in rapture. A leery, 40-something ex-junkie-cum-alcoholic old-time punk/alt legend leers in the corner. The stoner, being a hippy recognises the old scene legend and invites him back to his place for some bongs. They all get stoned and Stoner-rock tpye return to his room to have sex with his g/f/. Leery 'legend' peeks and starts to wank off to the show, Stoner's girlfriend notices, find it cute, and invites him in to join them in a 3some. You know the rest.

3. A blue-haired raver chick and black raver chick are dancing in a really cheesy, porn-studio staged 'rave' that looks like a scene out 'the Kenny Everett Video Show' dance segmenet (I think they were the 'Hot Property\ dancers or something)..anyway the two raver chicks talk to each other about how hot they're getting from the pills they had while sucking on Chuppa Chups. So they go to the 'chillout' room for some lezzo action.

The theme song 'GIMME INDIE COCK' ends the film, performed by a hack studio band imitating Sebadoh.

Don't try and copy this I\ve copyrighted it!
 

tryptych

waiting for a time
bassnation said:
sounds interesting, but i'd question whether people want art from their pornography.

it could be more fun, i'm sure everyone would be up for that, and god knows theres some ugly stuff out there (definitely agree about the undercurrent of misogny in the mainstream, it can give you a rather unpleasant window into some peoples souls) - but why burden a functional medium with high brow artistic ambitions when its hardly going to add to the core experience? theres plenty of non-porn art house films featuring full sex these days. surely if people want titallation under the pretext of art, thats where to go for it.

the suicide girls thing is interesting, but its all a bit goth - surely there is room for alternative porn that doesn't solely revolve around middle americas idea of what it means to be different?

What I find frustrating about mainstream modern pornography is not that it lacks artisitc merit, because, as bassnation says, thats not really what I'm looking for from porn. Rather, its the almost total lack of any sensuality, that I find it hard to think of anything I've seen that is remotely "sexy". The veracity of the act is important - if there's something that leads the viewer to believe that the particpants are actually involved and enjoying themselves. You do come across (pardon the pun!) this occasionally in mainstream porn, but not often - it's especially noticable in its absence, as previously mentioned in the vast amount of "lesbian" pornography.

The other factor is the background to the sex, and the fact that almost all porn stars live up to their stereotype of being terrible actors. Watching mainstream cinema, where one does see quite often sexy and sensual performances (but then never very much of the actual sex) has often led me to bemoan the lack of any really well put together porn films.

I guess that amateur porn might do better on both these counts, but I'd honestly rather watch beautiful people doing it than the couple from next door. I also don't have a problem with some degree of "gynaecological" (within limits) camerawork, in fact I think I'd consider it important to indulge in the beauty of genitalia, as opposed to the puritanical hiding away of it that happens in mainstream cinema (which has no problems showing the intimate insides of human viscera splayed out in acts of violence).

To refer to a concrete example, the seduction scene in "Bound", in which Gina Gershon as the butch plumber seduces Jennifer Tilly (or is it the other way around?), I found to be really quite sexy and well acted. But of course, the film doesn't follow through with a full on sex scene. Why isnt porn like this (I thought at the time)? Why isn't porn well acted and scripted?

I've heard about female directors who supposedly are into doing this sort of thing, but never seen any. If any of you dissensians have any recommendations... ;)
 

Buick6

too punk to drunk
spackb0y said:
What I find frustrating about mainstream modern pornography is not that it lacks artisitc merit, because, as bassnation says, thats not really what I'm looking for from porn. Rather, its the almost total lack of any sensuality, that I find it hard to think of anything I've seen that is remotely "sexy". The veracity of the act is important - if there's something that leads the viewer to believe that the particpants are actually involved and enjoying themselves. You do come across (pardon the pun!) this occasionally in mainstream porn, but not often - it's especially noticable in its absence, as previously mentioned in the vast amount of "lesbian" pornography.

The other factor is the background to the sex, and the fact that almost all porn stars live up to their stereotype of being terrible actors. Watching mainstream cinema, where one does see quite often sexy and sensual performances (but then never very much of the actual sex) has often led me to bemoan the lack of any really well put together porn films.

I guess that amateur porn might do better on both these counts, but I'd honestly rather watch beautiful people doing it than the couple from next door. I also don't have a problem with some degree of "gynaecological" (within limits) camerawork, in fact I think I'd consider it important to indulge in the beauty of genitalia, as opposed to the puritanical hiding away of it that happens in mainstream cinema (which has no problems showing the intimate insides of human viscera splayed out in acts of violence).

To refer to a concrete example, the seduction scene in "Bound", in which Gina Gershon as the butch plumber seduces Jennifer Tilly (or is it the other way around?), I found to be really quite sexy and well acted. But of course, the film doesn't follow through with a full on sex scene. Why isnt porn like this (I thought at the time)? Why isn't porn well acted and scripted?

I've heard about female directors who supposedly are into doing this sort of thing, but never seen any. If any of you dissensians have any recommendations... ;)

Yeah you hit the head on the nail. Though Jenna Fine useta remind me of the chicks outta 'Bound' and wuz in alot of lezzo grind-action. But yeah the lack of sensulaity is a big reason that pr0n has turned to shit and the audience that watches and loves this stuff, as it is obviously a market driven thing, is a bigger worry. i mean, I find footage of a girls widened sphincter to be as erotic as the aftermath of a suicide bomber. My goodness, this is like a sick scenarion out of a JG Ballard novel! UUUURRRRCCCHHH! :(
 
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