Prog.

Woebot

Well-known member
Prog

This time last year (http://www.woebot.com/movabletype/archives/000488.html) me and a couple of mates (stand up jwd and blissblogger) had a bit of sport with the Prog genre. I have to confess i emerged from the episode pretty satiated and haven't really dipped in much more (though I'm sure I'll remember a whole variety of indiscretions since that date).

However, I couldnt help but notice that Simon at least has continued checking stuff out (with Dale it's a certainty), I'm just about to get a whole stack of Goblin CDs from him, which he's been loving. So i wonder, what's the state of the affairs with Prog-love? What are people "feeling"?
 
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Diggedy Derek

Stray Dog
King Crimson rule, as always. As hard as Shellac, with a shards of of mid-prog improv. Red, Earthbound and The Nightwatch are all great.

Hawkwind rock, mysteriously omited from The Wire's top riffs of all time, but then they aren't really prog, are they.
 

carlos

manos de piedra
of all prog bands the one that i still listen to with any sort of regularity is King Crimson- especially their early albums- the mix of acoustic instruments with mellotron and fuzz guitar i find amazing. yes they are pompous and excessive (it's Prog!) and possibly ridiculous but i love them nonetheless.

also- one of the most unexpected things i've ever seen in a movie is in Buffalo 66, where christina ricci tapdances to Crimson's "moonchild" in a bowling alley. that sort of sums it all up i think. Buffalo 66 makes great use of Yes in the soundtrack also...
 

polystyle

Well-known member
3 prong luv

aah yes, Prog love .
Caught some of those last posts and passages on prog' ,
and here i think it's a slo bubbling interest , not a bursting nova rating mag interest.
Why any interest ? because some of the music is quite great deserving a wider listen then when tucked under/filed/dismissed as 'Kraut Rock' ...

This past summer Amon Duul 2 came over and played in SC Fest. i think it was,
didn't hear much fdbk on that , was hoping they would head up here.
In Europe they did a show with other groups like The GroundHogs.
Amon's Chris Karrer and Renate still carrying it on

Rodelius from Harmonia came over to The Austrian Institute earlier in the year as well

The remastered 1975 -'76 Nazgul record (Psi- Fi PSCD0005) was nice to find,
got my friends kids excited when they heard Gandalf played on it ,
turned out to be ok , not a time tired joke , but ethnic instrument jam - wise ultimately not as memorable as it's titles (the dead marshes' , mount doom')

King Crimson , yes Red's "Elegy" still works for me every time i'm in that mood (John Wetton voice mood),
but i tried to listen to "Lark Tongues In Aspic" the other day and didn't get so far till i pulled it .
First rock show i saw - Alexis Korner Blues Band, King Crimson w/ Carl Palmer , Boz Burrell , Humble Pie @ Alexandria Roller Rink , jeez must a been 1972 ...

So from here , a prog interest rolls on .
Considering what all Bowie ripped from it , what B Eno uh , co- habited,
Neu's 20 & 21st c children and Kraftwerk's continued high esteem (they did crawl out of prog matrix /campus)
seems that prog luv is all around ...
 

francesco

Minerva Estassi
WOEBOT said:
This time last year
oh no it's that time of the year again :eek: ? i thought that astonishing Simon's Progmetheus Unbound
http://blissout.blogspot.com/2003_10_19_blissout_archive.html
http://blissout.blogspot.com/2003_11_23_blissout_archive.html#106965226667575051
vaccinus had worked like, you know, just expose youself to a little not too nasty dose of the virus and you will be saved from it ad vitam

WOEBOT said:
I have to confess i emerged from the episode pretty satiated and haven't really dipped in much more
oh, it worked...

WOEBOT said:
However, I couldnt help but notice that Simon at least has continued checking stuff out (with Dale it's a certainty), I'm just about to get a whole stack of Goblin CDs from him, which he's been loving.
maybe not so well...
... on a personal note hi Simon and Jon sorry if I have promised you to send more stuff on CD-R when possible, but i was drowned in work and other problems. Anyway thanks for the CD-R you sent me, wonderful stuff, absolutely blinding.

ciao da francesco
 
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redcrescent

Well-known member
polystyle des said:
Rodelius from Harmonia came over to The Austrian Institute earlier in the year as well
I only found out recently that Roedelius has been living in Baden, just south of Vienna, since quite a long time, a fact unnoticed by most of the world. He's a fascinating character and a living legend who pops up every so often to play records in bars, then disappears again.
He's done some amazing things during his adventurous life, among them:

-the Kluster albums Klopfzeichen , Zwei-Osterei and the live Eruption , with Moebius and Conrad Schnitzler (an ex-student of German Aktionist Joseph Beuys), inspired as much by Cage and Stockhausen (Roedelius, though, thinks Karlheinz is too stiff and typically German - he prefers Ligeti, who's got "more paprika") as by UK psychedelic music (e.g. Hapsash and the Coloured Coat) and your standard Velvets, Fugs and Beefheart. Kluster once even opened for Hendrix, on Jimi's last German gig!

-Harmonia's Musik von Harmonia ("Sehr kosmisch", to use one of the track titles; Harmonia = Cluster + Michael Rother of Neu!) from 1974. If you like Neu!, you might appreciate Harmonia's De Luxe from 1975, too (which features Roedelius, Moebius, Rother and Guru Guru's Mani Neumeier on drums) - it's now been reissued, I believe.

-the Cluster albums (now without Schnitzler), especially Cluster II, Zuckerzeit, Cluster & Eno (these last two I really rate) and After the Heat, again with Eno (and a cameo on "Tzima N'arki" by Holger Czukay)

-participated on Guru Guru's Mani und seine Freunde album from 1975, as did probably half of the Krautrock scene

-several dozen other things, solo work and work with Moebius, movie soundtracks (e.g. Frederick Baker's recent "Imagine Imagine")...

Roedelius/Kluster/Cluster/Harmonia have definitely inspired lots of things, from Eno (obviously), David Bowie's Low, Eno & Byrne's My life in the bush of ghosts, and Suicide's debut, to Stereolab's Transient..., Arto Lindsay, Norway's Salvatore, 'pastoral electronica' (Boards of Canada, etc.) ... and even Air, I suppose.
 
J

jimbackhouse

Guest
Roedelius came to Kosmische to play his favourite records about a year ago and was sooo charming. He was chatting inbetween each track. That was such an amazing evening.

Also I just got sent a new 12" of his : it's all remixes tho' :-(

Cluster (1,2, Zuckerzeit, the 2 Harmonia albums...) are some of the most sublime albums ever: and the 2 harmonia albums sound AMAZING on the new remasters (Although they're not really PROG are they??)

Would definitely recommend anyone and everyone to checkout Magma: esp. 1001 Centigrade or Mechanik Destruktiw Kommandoh: jaw dropping all the way.

Heldon are well worth checking out too, French Prog wise: especially the first album, with guest vocals from Gilles Deleuze!
 

heiku

Member
I've a continued adoration of 310's debut Prague Rock. The Pink Floyd tribute is somewhat predictable but their choice of loop for the Jethro Tull piece is brilliant. And the KC title, "Pipeless And Smoking Crack", is kind of meritorious.

On Van der Graaf's Peel Session from 24-10-77, their version of "The Sphinx In The Face" (which closes the VdGG boxset) is astonishing. Potter's fuzzbass and holyshit, Guy Evans on drums! I swear that Hammill's apparent x-over at this time to the punk environs (or at least a greater sense of economy) produced his finest moments.
 

Jay Vee

Member
After having seen the "classic" lineup perform this past summer, my Yes love has come back full speed. No apologies. And I'm getting into seriously Cluster/Cluster & Eno at the moment.
 

jwd

Well-known member
Much like Matt, I found myself pretty satiated after the prog-nosis of last year. These days prog seems to turn up as an element of certain things I listen to, but by no means an overarching concern. These days it's a bit too blustery and non-pleasurable for me.

Having said that I still regularly blast the Franco Battiato CDs that Francesco sent me last year. Speaking of which, hi Francesco, drop us a line!

Matt, how 'prog' did you find those Sun City Girls discs? Not very I'm supposing, it was a bit disingenuous of me to include SCG on the prog discs I sent you eh. Trying to slip one in there unnoticed and all :)
 

blissblogger

Well-known member
i was actually planning to do a Progmetheus #3 (another vast defecation of data) and a Progmetheus #4 (in which i'd actually essay some kind of aesthetic response/evaluation of all this stuff i'd been listening to for the first time ever)... but the moment passed. maybe next year, if the onslaught of woe abates sufficiently.

still buying the stuff here and there, when it turns up cheap... out of all it, including things people kindly burned, the most revelatory things were Guru Guru (almost too hard rocking and wild to be prog maybe), Magma. Comus... Goblin are ridiculously entertaining (almost disco-prog at times)... Gong can be

but almost all of it's interesting to listen on the level of "what were on earth were the cultural conditions that made this seem like a good idea!?!?". i got that sensation most powerfully listening to Gentle Giant
 

nonightsweats

Active member
i still listen to Henry Cow every month or so. they still do it for me every time, from the canterbury influenced Leg End through to the hard edged bombast of Western Culture (although the later is very heavy going indeed).

i went on a R.I.O. search this last month getting things by lesser known bands who were heavily influenced by HC - 5UUs, Science Group... basically all the stuff you can find on the ReR label. a lot of it's too much like Western Culture, rather than the more interesting early - mid period HC. like all the prog i actively dislike (Yes, ELP) it all seems focussed on the musicianly chops of the players rather than a complete musical idea carried through. still and all, there's many good tracks in there.

and don't forget all that eastern european stuff too - especially plastic people of the universe (easily the best of the lot)
 

Woebot

Well-known member
blissblogger said:
but almost all of it's interesting to listen on the level of "what were on earth were the cultural conditions that made this seem like a good idea!?!?". i got that sensation most powerfully listening to Gentle Giant
entropy?

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Woebot

Well-known member
jwd said:
Matt, how 'prog' did you find those Sun City Girls discs? Not very I'm supposing, it was a bit disingenuous of me to include SCG on the prog discs I sent you eh. Trying to slip one in there unnoticed and all :)
I'm still working my way through the cassettes (looking for that great track you put on the prog comp you made) it's all good so far, side three i'm not so keen on (bit messy). I'm not entirely sure how proggish they are, remember that remark you made after the special you did, to the effect that your selection veered into psych? Well SCG strike me as being "Art-psych", which isnt a bad thing to be on the face of it :) Other "Art-psych" bands might include The Residents, but certainly shaggsters like The Animal Collective.
 

hamarplazt

100% No Soul Guaranteed
Well, where to start? Maybe with a Simon Reynolds quote to put things in perspective: experience has taught me that when all right-thinking people agree something is beyond the pale, utterly devoid of merit, that’s precisely when you should start paying attention. Now that was about gabber, but it could just as well be about prog. Recently I’ve come to like prog more and more, not least because of the perverse pleasure I feel defending it against the rock’n’roll-purists. Compared to the uninhibited megalomania of prog, punk and all other kinds of retro rock just seem utterly dull and uninspired.

The punk-saved-rock-from-prog myth is sadly still alive, passed on from generation to generation of rock critics using prog as a way to avoid anything that doesn’t fit their dogma of songwriting and guitar feedback. If something is “like prog”, the case is closed, because obviously it’s too absurd to think that something can be prog and good. I think this is part of the reason most rock is so lame today. No one dare to be ambitious or extravagant, because then they might be blamed for being prog – what disgrace! Something like post rock seems to be an attampt to make “tasteful” and “subtle” prog - prog without all the things that made prog great. Like neurofunk to progs ‘ardcore.

What made people think prog was a good idea? Pretty much the same things that later made people think rave was a good idea: idealism, the belief that anything was possible, the ability to find joy in ridiculously exaggerated pomp and circumstance. Under all the concepts and self indulgent lyrics, most prog was also very much about sheer sensation. Mad rhythms, extravagant bombast, amazing sounds and textures. When listening to the farthest out ‘ardcore, say Hyper-on Experience or Biochip C, in many ways I hear prog. To make that kind of music you’d have to be a virtuoso before sampling and sequencers. Technology made it possible for everyone to be Rick Wakeman. And yeah, Wakeman – the most agreed-upon-devoid-of-merit of all prog rockers – is great. He’s all tastless surface, all sensation-for-sensations-sake. Check out his Rhapsodies album. If tracks like “Front Line” and “March of the Gladiators” isn’t ‘ardcore, I don’t know what is. I rate this insult of an album much much higher than any 60s garage punk classic. Todays music simply lack Rick Wakemans shamelesness.

I noticed that during last years blog prog phase, everybody seemed eager to point out that even though there were some few great prog nuggets to dig out, and even though some brilliant music was made in that era, they definitely DID NOT like “prog proper” – Yes/ELP/Tull/King Crimson etc. Well, maybe they have just been told so many times (and have told others so many times) that this music is WRONG, that they can never get any pleasure from it ever. A shame, really, because some of the greatest prog is exactly these groups, the real deal. I love most of them, and often for different reasons (Yes and Jethro Tull, for example, is two very very different things), so let me just single out Yes’ Close to the Edge for praise. Amazing surges of energy caught in ultra focused patterns, an expolsion of light. And no, instrument ability isn’t the focus of this album, it’s simply a means to the end. There isn’t a single superflous note on Close the the Edge, just like there isn’t a singel superflous snare on Renegade Snares. This is music that is meant to be exaggerated. That’s why it’s so great.
 

Woebot

Well-known member
hamarplazt said:
I noticed that during last years blog prog phase, everybody seemed eager to point out that even though there were some few great prog nuggets to dig out, and even though some brilliant music was made in that era, they definitely DID NOT like “prog proper” –
That's certainly what i said. True.
 

heiku

Member
Simon Reynolds quote to put things in perspective: experience has taught me that when all right-thinking people agree something is beyond the pale, utterly devoid of merit, that’s precisely when you should start paying attention.
At risk of taking Simon's quote out of context, I do agree that there's some utility here, particularly when used as a mechanism to explore new areas of music-- a reverse logic of sorts. But I don't agree that these general notions of acceptability are purely dogmatic. It's possible that the so-called "right-thinking people" simply may have similar reactions to different musics. Which is why many of us would, for example, be more intrigued by obscure brazillian protest music from the late 60s than say, the latest Elton John lp. It's likely not so much to do with a shared attraction to the arcane but rather with which neurons are being tickled.

Of course, there's the additional risk of "liking" something precisely because it's so profoundly disdained by others. This ain't nothing more than a boring appeal to contradiction, a brand of irony that has a very short shelf-life (ie. the Thurstons & Jims professing their love for Styx.)
 

appleblim

Well-known member
all about

Yes - "close to the edge" (listened to in its entirety-fought against this for years, gave up a few years ago and just admitted it was funky, absurd, and lush all at once.....killer!)

Magma - pretty much any of it (tho deffo do 'udu wuddu' for some early drum machine/glisteneing rhodes style biz, and the awesome double live album......) saw em a few years back and the place was transfixed! Julian Cope, Paul McCartney and Steve Davis in the audience too! can't say fairer than that! Plus Chrisian Vander and one of the bass players once had a 'psychic battle' across the valley that separated thier two homes/prog castles! Brrrrrrrap! )

Henry Cow - everything - I know u probably don't want to like em, but if they were german they'd get props! (*flinches expecting flood of outraged responses!*)
but listen to "bittern storm over ulm" off Unrest and tell me it isn't as funky and out-there as anything by the krauts.....

IQ - "Beef In Box" - got to big up Irish Al and Max Tundra for turning me onto this, disco prog at its most insane....time-changes, wibbly synth noises, and even insane female rapping! recorded on 4 track for a Melody maker unsigned comp! baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad tune! seek it out!

Cardiacs - Ok gonna cop a lot of flack for this, but all y'all who give Yes, Devo, Magma, XTC, and Faust props you have to give this lot a go.... try the later stuff like 'Sing To God'....trans-psychedelic baby!
 

johneffay

Well-known member
appleblim said:
Cardiacs - Ok gonna cop a lot of flack for this, but all y'all who give Yes, Devo, Magma, XTC, and Faust props you have to give this lot a go.... try the later stuff like 'Sing To God'....trans-psychedelic baby!

This is clearly an understatement. Tim Smith is a Rock God and Cardiacs are better than anybody on your list. Not that I'm criticizing anybody on your list (well, apart from XTC ;) ).
 
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