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Gabba Flamenco Crossover
09-11-2005, 11:10 AM
...either as part of structured psychoanalysis or informally by themselves?

Did you find it productive/interesting?

I'm reading one of Colin Wilson's books on the paranormal at the moment, some of which is plausable, some not. I have my doubts about the relevence of dream analysis but as it's fairly easy to do i thought i'd try it before making my mind up.

Would be interested to know what you all thought of it though.

sufi
09-11-2005, 01:03 PM
I did a short spell of vitamin B6 abuse as a teen,
available from yr local pharmacist - it gives you the MOST vivid dreams, so much that you can hardly sleep... (& it's good fr health presumably :) )
interesting but tiring different area of consciousness to explore, i often wondered if there have been any explorators/sprirt guide a la castaneda for lucid dreamland, as analyse yr dream type books seem so subjective as to be useless imho
http://www.thefane.org/images/nemo171.jpg
generally it's ALL about sex tho no?

Omaar
10-11-2005, 02:47 PM
I did a short spell of vitamin B6 abuse as a teen,
available from yr local pharmacist - it gives you the MOST vivid dreams, so much that you can hardly sleep... (& it's good fr health presumably :) )


really? so how much would one need to take to produce this effect?

Melmoth
10-11-2005, 03:05 PM
Dream Workshops as part of the Ilya and Emilia Kabokov Exhibition "House of Dreams"


Wednesdays in November
2 6pm

The Sackler Centre of Arts Education
at the Serpentine Gallery
Free, booking essential
Places limited

Participants will sleep, rest and dream in the exhibition, taking part in discussions exploring dream interpretation led by psychoanalysts Lucia Corti, Vincent Dachy, Alan Rowan, Noga Wine and Anouchka Grose.

Information: Email dreams@serpentinegallery.org

Melmoth
10-11-2005, 03:06 PM
Sounds like a nightmare.

rewch
10-11-2005, 03:15 PM
really? so how much would one need to take to produce this effect?

can't really od on it, so take 3 or 4... however the side effects are most unexpected... no sleep due to excessive dreaming... you don't seem to go into deep sleep, but spend all night having intense pre-waking dreams... & then you wake up... pretty tiring... but very vivid... except after what seems like 20 or 30 dreams you can't really remember what happened... definitely worth it though

Lichen
10-11-2005, 03:21 PM
[QUOTE=Melmoth]

The Sackler Centre of Arts Education
/QUOTE]

Arthur Sackler "invented" Valium and Librium. I'm sure he'd be pleased with this collective dozing.

Grievous Angel
11-11-2005, 11:07 AM
Yeah, done a lot of dream work. It's extremely productive and interesting when you get going.

You can get a lot of the same insights through wakeful meditation but dreams have a habit of... well, kinda lumping it all together in one shocking big heap.

Baby-induced sleep deprivation is devastating for remembering dreams.

Which Colin Wilson book are you reading?

Omaar
11-11-2005, 11:37 AM
can't really od on it, so take 3 or 4... however the side effects are most unexpected... no sleep due to excessive dreaming... you don't seem to go into deep sleep, but spend all night having intense pre-waking dreams... & then you wake up... pretty tiring... but very vivid... except after what seems like 20 or 30 dreams you can't really remember what happened... definitely worth it though

had a squiz around some other sites that suggested that you can cause neurological damage by taking too large a dose .. so 3 or 4 of how many mg?

Actually I'm a bit wary about trying this now as a I had terrifyingly realistic nightmares last night, not sure if i should try and make things more intense. As well as a bizarre nightmare, I also dreamt that i was looking at a a theatre stage from which all these ancient stone cultural artefacts suddenly disappeared. I spent the next day of dreamtime trying to understand how this was physically possible and where the artefacts had gone in a metaphysical detective story type way, before I came to the realisation that they had never been there in reality, I had only ever received an email about them being there and had somehow translated the email into a memory of having seen them. Then I woke up in my dream and explained this to the friend who had sent the email, which it turned out actually wan't meant for me.

fairly off topic:

Has anyone ever experimented with that bit of software that generates noise at specific frequencies with particular qualities that are supposed to produce particular psychological states? Inlcuding one that is meant to produce descent into temporary psychosis? can't remember the name right now.

rewch
11-11-2005, 12:56 PM
had a squiz around some other sites that suggested that you can cause neurological damage by taking too large a dose .. so 3 or 4 of how many mg?

can't really remember sadly... but i reckon probably 500 - 1000 mg... seem to remember they came in 200mg doses, but could be wrong... & suspect that 2000 mg (threshold toxicity) is a lot of pills

doesn't sound like you need any b6 though...

rewch
11-11-2005, 02:40 PM
just been having a look myself at some other dream potentiators or whatever you call them... there are quite a few on erowid (http://www.erowid.org/) where people have been using combinations of various things, but for b6 it seems to be approx. 1000 mg...

having said that some of these people seem to have travelled quite far...

martin
11-11-2005, 03:33 PM
I get wacked out dreams, but they're normally just deconstructions of the day's events, only with minute details amplified and blown out of all proportion / sense of reality. I'd never analyse them, but for some reason, indoor swimming pools tend to be a recurring theme.

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
11-11-2005, 06:58 PM
Yeah, done a lot of dream work. It's extremely productive and interesting when you get going.

You can get a lot of the same insights through wakeful meditation but dreams have a habit of... well, kinda lumping it all together in one shocking big heap.

Baby-induced sleep deprivation is devastating for remembering dreams.

Which Colin Wilson book are you reading?

Mysteries. it's the first of his 'occult' books I've read. I read the outsider in my teens, it's my favorite ever non fiction book. His style is incredible.

Yeah I've experienced sleep deprivation working nightshifts before, it's pretty spacey. Baby related I'd imagine is more full on because of all the emaotions going round your head, no?

henry s
11-11-2005, 08:44 PM
I suppose we're in the area of "lucid dreaming" now, which reminds me of an Aphex Twin feature many moons ago, where RDJ went on and on about how he could lucid dream (despite sleeping only two hours a night)...it was interesting how laddish he was about it, reasoning that lucid dreaming was great because you could "shag anybody you fancied"...he also wrote music in his sleep...talk about a multi-tasker!...so intrigued was I (if those female grad school colleagues of mine had ANY idea what was in store for them in slumberland!) that I got some books on the subject, but was dismayed at how much work it seemed (waking oneself every hour, keeping a dream journal, constantly reminding oneself during waking hours that one was indeed awake, etc.) that I bagged it...still think it sounds cool, though, and I'd really like to actually remember what I dream about...

DJ PIMP
11-11-2005, 10:04 PM
I take note (dream diary) of particularly vivid dreams, or ones that are recurring or part of a series, and try to feel my way through them a bit. Jung said that serial or recurring dreams are quite significant.

Had a crazy medieval-Lynchian dream last week, where I woke up semi-conscious and terrified, posessed by the very intense, pitch-black feeling (demonic) figure from the dream I was having, and I couldn't move or talk until it left me (15-20 seconds) - sleep paralysis styles. Might write up the dream if anyone is interested?

Never had an experience like that before - it freaked me out.

Omaar
12-11-2005, 11:11 AM
Had a crazy medieval-Lynchian dream last week, where I woke up semi-conscious and terrified, posessed by the very intense, pitch-black feeling (demonic) figure from the dream I was having, and I couldn't move or talk until it left me (15-20 seconds) - sleep paralysis styles. Might write up the dream if anyone is interested?

I 've had that happen once or twice -hypnagogia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogic_state) - i think i heard it posited as an explanation for the succubus/incubus thing - ah there's a bit on it here: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis)

I'd like to hear more anyway ...

diaspora
12-11-2005, 02:53 PM
Good link on sleep paralysis. I've had occasional episodes of that for the last few years, but had kind of assumed it was specific to me. The sense of malevolence is very powerful, and the first few times were frightening, but fear was outweighed by curiosity, and I began to appreciate the experience. The last time it happened was a couple of months ago, when I enjoyed it so much I think I might have broken the cycle :(

Someone mentioned audio software to induce altered states. There's two I know of: BrainWave Generator (http://www.bwgen.com/), which is shareware, but you can use it with limited functions and a nag dialogue indefinitely, and SBaGen (http://uazu.net/sbagen/), which is opensource freeware. I've had these installed for the last month or so, but haven't had time to play with them.

I have big dreams and little dreams. Mostly little dreams, spam from the subconscious, but occasionally big dreams, the ones that tell you the naked truth.

DJ PIMP
12-11-2005, 06:52 PM
I 've had that happen once or twice -hypnagogia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogic_state) - i think i heard it posited as an explanation for the succubus/incubus thing - ah there's a bit on it here: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis) Jung wrote that the first encounter with a "demon" was the beginning of the acknowledgment of God? Something like that... Anyhow the dream was a two-parter with about 6 weeks in between the parts. Heres the transcript from the diary.

PART I [soft string section]
Middle ages. I'm riding through a village in a horse-drawn cart with my new bride/mistress who has just been given to me - a young girl dressed in white. We go home and get into bed and go to sleep. I wake up in the morning and she is lying next to me, stiff as a board. Her white gown is pulled up covering her face and torso. She is wide-eyed with terror and tells me that during the night she was raped while lying next to me - she thinks she is pregnant. She keeps repeating "he made me do it, he's making me do it" - totally freaked out - but I don't understand how its possible.

Later that day we ride into the village, cruising through the crowd at the markets. The bride points out a huge figure amongst the throng - an enormous man standing head and shoulders over everyone else. Dark, dirty matted hair and bushy beard. Grubby clothes and face. Deep black eyes that stare straight at me with an intense otherworldly force.

PART II [strings slide into discord]
Same premise as the first part, I'm back in the village with the woman in white. We ride home and get into bed and go to sleep. However this time I wake up in the middle of the night... in the dim light of the room I can see the woman is lying rigidly with her gown pulled up over her face. Above her is the spectral figure of the man raping her - a black, dense buzzing cloud.

I start to panic as I can see this terrible thing that made no sense to me before. In reality I start to wake up so as to escape, but the demon has become aware that I've seen him and he moves swiftly from the woman in the dream to my semi-waking body - paralysing me - filling me with this incredibly dark malevolent force - I'm entirely terrified. My hands are like gnarled tree roots frozen above my chest and the muscles in my arms and body are vibrating like crazy as his energy pours through me. I try several times to say to my partner "he's the one thats doing it!", but nothing comes out. By this time my partner has woken up and shes asking if I'm OK - I still can't reply. I make an attempt to calm down and after a few seconds I feel the spirit leave me - drifting toward a corner of the room like a fog. It was only then that I started to move again.

--

I won't go into my interpretation :cool: but it did remind me a lot of that (great/horrible/memorable) scene in Mulholland Drive, where the guy is talking to his therapist in the diner. He describes a dream, which then starts to occur, and they go out the back where he finds the creepy looking crusty-guy that kills him with fright. The man/demon in my dream looked similar only much larger and heavier.

Anyhoo...

Omaar
13-11-2005, 10:03 AM
but it did remind me a lot of that (great/horrible/memorable) scene in Mulholland Drive, where the guy is talking to his therapist in the diner.

I read (or my unconscious read ; ) )the above as 'where the guy is talking to the rapist' which obv made no sense.

Did you hear the strings in your dream or is that creative license?

Do other people hear music in dreams?

Or read/hear particular words? I read somewhere that reading is meant to be theoretically impossible in dreams - actually now that i think about it it was more along the lines of "if you're dreaming and you read some text and turn away and then turn back and read it again and it says something else then you know that you're dreaming" - and from this point you can go on to dream lucidly.

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
13-11-2005, 12:14 PM
Do other people hear music in dreams?


I hear music in my dreams. i sometimes wake up a la macca and write it down although the results havent been quite as financially rewarding yet.

In that semi sleep phase where you get hyperreal imagery i can direct myself to write nonsense songs as well as recite surreal gibberish. I'd like to write it down but that means coming out of the dream state into full consciousness so i dont see how you could.

And i suspect it might be crap.

the undisputed truth
13-11-2005, 12:22 PM
I had a dream ages ago...

...i saw this object in space. It was just a spinning blur and it was trying to show me what it actually was

but it was moving too fast so I asked it to slow down...

...and it did, just long enough to make out what it was so i said thanx, then woke up, drew it on a piece of paper and went back to sleep

I got up in the morning and had completely forgot about it til i saw what i drew and this is it, of course it was spinning much faster ...
http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/4094/kontraribbons5ol.gif
...I have since ascribed meaning to it but i don't think I have fully comprehended it's relevence yet

what do you see and think it is or means then i'll tell you what i think???

BTW I think it is back to front, must put that right and repost it...

chur

DJ PIMP
13-11-2005, 08:05 PM
Did you hear the strings in your dream or is that creative license?Just helping to set the tone. Everything else is pretty much verbatim.

Not via dreams but I do hear music in my head sometimes... my brain starts writing techno seemingly on its own. I've been trying to make some of it lately :)

HELL_SD: It looks like the heads of two eagles or phoenixes (beaks towards the center). The rotation/b&w makes it very yin-yang.

the undisputed truth
13-11-2005, 08:53 PM
^^^nice, yeah that's what it is...

...want to take a stab at what it might mean ???

D84
14-11-2005, 03:30 AM
I get a lot of those sleep paralysis dreams often and in various formats, some "spectacular" but mostly a desperate feeling that I need to wake up or I'll die etc.. Thanks for wikipedia links - I never realised it was so common.

I do hear music in my dreams sometimes. One I remember most vividly is one where I was on a roller-coaster (a common motif for me) except all I could see were some coloured patterns on a black background; there was silnce as "the car" was climbing to the peak and then after a pause I felt this keen falling sensation and heard/replayed some John Zorn/ Painkiller track. I thought that was very cool when I woke up :)

"Big" week-ends sometimes have a part in the vividness of a subsequent dream...

HELL_SD, yeah I reckon there's yin & yang symbolism but I think flight is also there: a very common and powerful symbol, see eg. JG Ballard's "Unlimited Dream Company", Aristophanes' "Birds" and pretty much anything else that features birds and wings. It sounds like a good dream.

Apparently dreaming of flying is common. I don't get them much though, alas.

So yeah I have analysed my dreams to some extent, esp. after i read that Jung edited book on Picador, "Man and His Symbols". I don't think you need to read it (there's some dodgy stuff in there) but it gives you some help in cracking the puzzle and the notion about blurring the boundaries between sleeping and waking life is really interesting.. I found the best thing is to be brutally honest with yourself etc.

It's an worthwhile exercise but I don't do it so much these days. My dreams haven't been that interesting lately, apart from the sleep-paralysis/succubus style nightmare - so take from that what you will re the present state of my subconscious...

sufi
24-11-2005, 12:06 AM
travelling always gives me very intense dreams, just back from a trip which was in many ways a dream come true

Constance Labounty
24-11-2005, 04:56 AM
I read this thread and decided to try the B6 deal. I first checked online about dangers of overdosing. From this I found that at least one scientific study has found a link between B6 and dreaming. I found that although 100 mg is the max recommended daily (any more than that can lead to nervous system effects like numb limbs or sketchy stuff like that), the scientific study with college students was done with 250 mg so around that should be fine.

I took 300 mg (nearly a half year's worth of the daily recommended amount!) before bed one night. I did notice I had more dreams (or, I noticed more dreams I had, hmm..) but they didn't seem any more vivid or memorable than usual. If anything, it almost seemed like they were less dreamy than usual- being less euphorically emotional and feeling more like my boring waking life. This is possibly due to the stimulating effect of B6. It makes sense that being awake enough to remember dreams better would also cause them to be less dreamy. Darn. But, the next night I did have particularly vivid dreams. So, my verdict is that the B6 effect lasts multiple nights and is possibly better the second night because the stimulating effects of B6 are decreased. Or, you could just try taking B6 in the morning or taking less of it.

BTW, HELL_SD, that spinny thing is the coolest ish I've ever seen. I need more dreams like that! I think I'd need to take more than just vitamins.

dogger
24-11-2005, 12:49 PM
Do other people hear music in dreams?



I hear music in dreams. Sometimes it's so loud it actually wakes me up; it's as though I am *really* hearing it rather than aurally visualising it, as I would in waking life. Sometimes it is so beautiful it makes me cry. I can usually remember it when I wake up, but it never seems to have the profundity that it did in the dream. Has anyone else experienced this?

Tweak Head
25-11-2005, 11:17 PM
This is interesting. On lucid dreaming, try Stephen LaBerge - it's meant to be the key stuff tho I haven't read it. "Dreaming Realities" by John Overdurf and Julie Silverthorn is good too if you ignore the stuff about quantum physics. Also "Conscious Dreaming" and its sequel "Dreamgates" by Robert Moss are excellent.

the undisputed truth
28-11-2005, 04:41 AM
kontrabirds v2.0

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/376/kontradream0dq.gif

I think it's got something to do with interchangeable spatial dimensions, phase shifting, fundamental particles and possibly quantum gravity...

...try saving it as a quicktime gif, minimizing it, looping it and hitting the fast forward button, then looking at it through squinted eyes to get a close approximation of my dream

and i think they connect like this also...http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/984/kontrabraid4pu.jpg

it's 2d but cos it's spinning and possibly rotating at superluminal speed, it becomes a 3d object moving in time making it 4d

rewch
29-11-2005, 05:28 PM
I read (or my unconscious read ; ) )the above as 'where the guy is talking to the rapist' which obv made no sense.

the rapist finder (http://www.camft.org/ScriptContent/TherapistFinder/therapistFinderfirst.html)

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
02-12-2005, 11:37 AM
Here's an interesting one...

I have a fairly frequent recurring dream (every few months or so) that i can fly around just by concentrating, up to a height of about 100m or so. This isnt a dream in itself but it crops up in other dreams.

I slept really well last night, and had a long narrative dream - cant remember the plot exactly, I think someone had stolen something from me and i was trying to get it back, but there were lots of digressions.

Anyway at some stage I started flying around - the flying dream had started. And becuase i'd been thinking about dreams recently, i thought 'Hold on - if I'm flying, this must be a dream.' So i came back down to check if it was dream or reality.

Wierdly i then managed to satisfy myself that this wasnt a dream - cant remember how i did this, i think i asked someone and spent a lot of time looking at trees to make sure they were 'real'.

It appears I was on the cusp of some kind of lucid dreaming, but my mind wouldnt let me do it. But a short while after that, the flying stopped working, which has never happened before. I woke up soon afterwards.

There's a report in the Colin Wilson book about a guy who has a similar experience - thinks he's dreaming, so he asks some people in the dream who assure him that he isnt - then he wakes up.

the undisputed truth
03-12-2005, 09:20 PM
how's this ??? Happened quite a few years ago

I was awake, lying in bed, facing the wall and someone was talking to me from behind

I said " Be quiet, you're not even real"

he said yes "I am"

I said "no you're not"

he said "yes I am, turn around and I'll prove it"

so I did and there was no one there

so I said smugly "see i told you"

dsp13
04-12-2005, 03:42 PM
I go through phases with remembering dreams but for the last year and a half I remember them most days... sometimes several different ones... mainly becase I only work part-time at night so I get to sleep in and sometimes wake up several times...

An easy way to do it is if you have a cell phone that you can set multiple alarms on... set 4 or 5 alarms 15 - 20 minutes apart. Lately I also have alot of dreams that wake me up as well. I find most of my dreams are very clearly the product of recent stimulus... movies, video games, music, art... and my thoughts or feelings mixed up but even if it's a nightmare I get a kick out of remembering them...

It's interesting the way the brain kinda remixes all this info into something new... this mornings dream was a mix of the movie "the island" (which i watched a few days ago), my current job, earthquake paranoia and the fact that i have to leave japan soon... it ended with me alone in a stairway in a large semi-futuristic building in tokyo wearing a spandex jumpsuit in the middle of a fairly strong earthquake that lasted for a few minutes (pretty scary at the time... and not just the jumpsuit lol) and then I woke up.

My mother bought me a book from a second hand store about 10 years ago called "would the buddha wear a walkman"... it was a look at different gadgets, drugs and traditional methods of inducing lucid dreams... not the greatest book in the world but interesting none the less.

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
05-12-2005, 06:43 PM
I find most of my dreams are very clearly the product of recent stimulus...

Yeah, i think you only notice how much once you start looking at your dreams systematically. Presumably these kind of dreams get naturally filtered out once your properly awake - indistinguishable from daydreams or memories of the actual event - and its only the dreams that are less easy to pigeonhole mentally that stay with you.

DJ PIMP
10-01-2006, 11:56 PM
how's this ??? Happened quite a few years agoReminds me of a friend of mine who said that whenever his mind starts to run off on its own paranoid/delusional tangents, he asks it "what is the source of your information?" and it shuts up.

bassnation
11-01-2006, 05:02 PM
how's this ??? Happened quite a few years ago

I was awake, lying in bed, facing the wall and someone was talking to me from behind

I said " Be quiet, you're not even real"

he said yes "I am"

I said "no you're not"

he said "yes I am, turn around and I'll prove it"

so I did and there was no one there

so I said smugly "see i told you"

i once had a strange experience like that. i was sleeping in the afternoon, gone into a very deep sleep. i woke up and couldn't move a muscle, it was scary - spent ages trying to move my little finger with a lot of concentration but nothing, whole body was like a dead weight, totally paralysed.

then all of a sudden it was like something snapped and i sat up on the edge of the bed - and i could still see myself lying there.

i don't really believe in things like astral projection to be perfectly honest, think i was still dreaming - in any event, woke up normally some time later. anyone ever had anything like that happen to them?

mistersloane
08-11-2006, 01:20 PM
Last night's dream :

( voiceover, heavy on reverb, reminiscent of Grecian 200 adverts )

" and if I really wanted to get inside your mind?"

"Well, tonight, you'd go home, and fall asleep, and dream of characters ( characters start materialising ) materialising, laid out one by one, like scribbles forming pictures of people, positioned like buffers on a pinball machine, and the next day you'd write
"Do you know what I'd do if I really wanted to get inside your mind?"

and I woke up and wrote :

I don't dream of sheep, I dream of dreams
Eurrgh, my dreams are meta-memes.

DJ PIMP
08-11-2006, 07:27 PM
i rarely have dreams atm - i wake up and have poems. a lot of them are horribly didactic, but some i don't mind so much, e.g.

my physical environment is a computer
i choose to forget
the heart does all but shatter


although i did have a dream recently where my mum said to me...

in times of need and haste
go quickly and easily
to a place where one
can remind one's self
that everything is dancing


...which i quite liked.

polystyle desu
21-11-2006, 03:55 AM
aaah Dreams ...
Used to write the most vivid ones down once awake ,
used to have more in which simple dumb things would occur and reoccur (going out the house without some article of clothing was one that used to pop up).

Then there were ones where a big wave (the 7th , right?) is pulling the ocean back from the beach , pulling , pulling , wave's getting higher.
but never came back down .

Flying , sure.
Once aware of this , in the dream , would start to direct the flight path and , ok , let's figure out WHERE to go...

Music in dreams ? Sure
Have woken up with some notes floating through the mind , jotted them down and a couple times it was worth keeping.
Then of course, the aftermath of being in Studio listening to one piece of music or song over and over and there it is in your dream.
This happens still sometimes after listening at home , last music heard is there in dream.

Dreams changing when traveling ? Sure they do .
One of the good things about traveling , no doubt

Also some difference dreaming when i have a sack of hydro around the house and have been smoking for a few days , the dreams seem fine but.
without it , the dreams definitely come back stronger , clearer

Lichen
21-11-2006, 02:52 PM
Used to suffer from a lot of teeth falling out dreams.

Began with a wobble, then one goes, then a mouthfull of teeth, tumbling out when you speak

Horrible but quite common.

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
21-11-2006, 04:15 PM
Used to suffer from a lot of teeth falling out dreams.

Yeah, I got that quite a bit as a kid. In one incident that has gone down in family folklore, I was coming down with flu and thus hallucinating a little bit - plus I'd just been watching a david attenborough nature doc (the only program I was allowed to stay up and watch in our staunchly middle class liberal household).

Anyway, to cut a long story short I developed a frightening conviction that my teeth were floating in the pacific ocean, to the point of trying repeatedly to get out of the house to look for them. I got halfway down the road at one point, and my mum had to drag me back inside with me wailing MY TEEEETH!!!! a the top of my voice, which must have done wonders for neighbourhood harmony.

I think it lasted about 15 minutes. I have vivid memories of this vision I had throughout of my teeth bobbing around in the Pacific with all this other flotsam, seagulls picking at them etc.

Lichen
21-11-2006, 07:26 PM
Extraordinary.


Mine have always been wihin the bounds of sleep and occured well into adulthood - still do as a matter of fact.


Your teeth coming loose and falling out in a dream is meant to reflect anxieties you feel.


Adds up in my case.

SIZZLE
24-11-2006, 07:53 AM
Smoking herb regularly will definitely supress dream memories/dreaming and when you come off it the dreams can come back with shocking power and clarity. The length of time you need to smoke to have this effect seems to make it un-useful but it's definitely there. On the same front it seems Melatonin (an herbal supplement) claims to limit this effect for chronic smokers and cause vivid dreaming in non-smokers. I haven't taken it enough to agree or disagree but I think it's not baseless.

I've had lucid flying dreams and they're some of my most favorite. I've also had what I call 'night terrors' which is when I will be having a vivid, surreal nightmare and wake up only to have the nightmare continue, for lack of a better term. Basically dream logic continues in waking experience and in the case of nightmares this feels very much like losing your mind. It's happened to me three or four times in my life and it's a shocking unpleasant experience. Later I figured out that drinking coffee within four or five hours of sleep contributed to this, I'd get to sleep fine but then wake up about two hours later raving. Usually after a period of time that feels like twenty minutes or so and is probably much shorter I will be able to focus on something else like the TV and normal thought reasserts itself. Pretty disturbing experience. The most memorable was that I had given some people the wrong word in Japanese for Million and they had built a society using this in their language which had developed like a broken bone which had been set crooked and healed wrong. The feeling of guilt and horror at this was powerfully awful and persisted for a long time after I was awake, untill I managed to realise that these were two totally unconnected ideas and images and that it was all ridiculous, which was a great relief.

swears
24-11-2006, 08:40 AM
gabba & lichen:

Yeah, I've had teeth-falling-out dreams too! Weird, is it that common?
And when they first fall out there's a moment of panic: "Oh shit, now I'm gonna look like Shane McGowan!"
I had one recently where I was plugging them back into my gums.

Lichen
24-11-2006, 09:41 AM
swears,

they are common i think. the best explanation I've read is that loss of teeth = loss of power and control

so when we lose our teeth in a dream we are facing up to our lack of influence and control

that would tally with the feelings of fear and hopelesness that fill the dream.


Bruxism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruxism) has also been blamed.


Horrid innit

Gabba Flamenco Crossover
24-11-2006, 11:22 AM
Lichen & swears - luckily I don't get teeth dreams anymore, for me it was really a childhood thing, You're right though, it is horrible. I think I've read too that it's to do with loss of control, insecurity, etc.

Sizzle, re. dreams hanging over into waking - I had a dream last night that my bed had fallen to pieces, then I was standing in the shower this morning thinking 'damn, gotta get that bloody bed fixed today - no, hang on...'

polystyle desu
24-11-2006, 06:25 PM
Oh yea, the teeth dreams - the old first one tooth goes and then oh *hit ,
they all just come loose and are falling out into mouth while one tries to carry on doing whatever it is at the moment.
over time , have had them a few times , jus horrible feeling , even when you've woken up - not soon forgotten !
Awwwgh ...

Bang Diddley
27-05-2011, 10:40 AM
I've never tried to keep a dairy or analyse dreams but tried to keep a mental note as I wake up, but the dream memory soon gets distorted by reality. And later in the day nothing I can remember makes much sense through my reality filter.

I don't think I've had a dream that I can remember for a least a month tho I guess
I am still dreaming. I've had this on my bookshelf for a while and started to read it
a couple of days ago. While I've never read any other literature to compare it to it does seem pretty good so far.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dreaming-Reality-Keeps-Sane-Drive/dp/1899398910/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306488301&sr=1-1

slowtrain
28-05-2011, 06:16 AM
I've always been curious about those so-called 'dream dictionaries' and the like.. It always seemed to me that if you never knew about the symbol then how could it get into your head? (Even though there are weird things that all people seem to do - I'm reminded of how everyone on datura smokes imaginary cigarettes?)
And then I've always been hesitant to look up my recurring aspects because then it might mean that they just from then on simply stick to the definition I read in the dictionary, you know what I mean?

But does anyone have any 'scientific' resources on interpreting dreams? I'd be fascinated to read any...


Oh, and my recurring thing is that I always have to attempt to drive a car and don't really know how. (E.g, I find myself in the backseat - cars going down the road and I have to jump in the front and try figure out how to control it) I've had them since a kid and even though I can drive now, still get them.
It seems like the sort of thing a lot of people would get, has anyone else had this before?

DannyL
28-05-2011, 11:08 AM
Yeah, I've had the car dream. Quite a lot. No idea what it might mean though.

I've been keeping a dream diary on and off for about 20 years now, and I find it really fruitful. It's a practice I'd recommend to anyone. Your dreams definitely produce clear meanings if you given them the space to do so, material that comes from beyond your waking consciousness. Can answer problems, gain insight, and as well generally pleasantly weirding you right the fuck out. I've been seeing a therapist recently, and dreaming is an essential part of that process - it supplements, aids, and even directs it sometimes.

Anyone having problems with recall - 1) stop smoking dope 2) don't move when you wake up 3) last thing before you go to sleep, have the clear intention to remember them. Pen and paper next to bed is obviously a must.

sufi
28-05-2011, 03:52 PM
had the car dream repeatedly - that's about control
& had the tooth dream occasionally - about change, moving on, getting older
both rather disturbing

had a very vivid one a month or 2 back which has really stuck in my mind
http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/users16/greeneyesblueskies/default/day-140-electrical-sockets-dont--large-msg-12339679431.jpg
a plug socket (2 pin at about shoulder height) as i draw closer to it i can just about hear a little squeaky voice ....
i put my ear to the socket and listen:
"Heeelp us help us please, we're stuck in the basement heeeeelp!!! help help!!!" :eek:
most alarming - i dread to think what it might mean???

bandshell
28-05-2011, 04:23 PM
I'm usually lost or in peril in my dreams.

I had a dream that was a film and I was in it. At the end the credits came up and when they finished I woke up.

Was bizarre.

slowtrain
29-05-2011, 12:45 AM
OK - I had the most fucked up one this morning - like something out of de Sade ( :eek: )!!! I actually wrote it up but it is too messed up.

Was wondering if it (probably was) to the large cup of skullcap/valerian tea I had before bed? - I had others during the night as well, quite vivid. Anyone had this effect before? I had imagined it would just put me to sleep easier as I've been having a bit of a trouble lately (it didn't though...)

Also had a dream that I burnt by pocketbook and melted my cellphone - house filled up with this toxic smoke and I just felt so stupid and bad about it - anyone had anything like that before?


Fascinating about how some dreams seem to experienced by wide number of people - is there any contemp. research into anything like this?

(Online dream dictionaries are just embarrassing really - I'd like to think I'm a bit deeper than that!)

Corpsey
29-05-2011, 03:47 AM
The main recurring feature of my dreams is that when I jump there is a kind of moon-gravity effect and I float up into the air and land again extremely slowly. It is often more frightening or inconvenient than exhilarating, though. Also those dreams where you have to run to/away from someone/thing but it takes tremendous effort to move more than an inch per second. I don't know what this means.

Once in a while I have a dream about having to do an exam without having prepared for it, too. I know what that's about I suppose...

Mr. Tea
29-05-2011, 12:34 PM
Oh, and my recurring thing is that I always have to attempt to drive a car and don't really know how. (E.g, I find myself in the backseat - cars going down the road and I have to jump in the front and try figure out how to control it) I've had them since a kid and even though I can drive now, still get them.
It seems like the sort of thing a lot of people would get, has anyone else had this before?

Haha, I've not had this dream but then I've never really driven much - it's apparently pretty common. Reminds me of a great xkcd cartoon:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/brain_worms.png

hopper
29-05-2011, 02:00 PM
I'd say the car one is the most recurring thing in my dreams too, weird to see so many other people get it. I always find myself really happy and excited that I'd managed to drive and do something I've always wanted to do, then I always find myself really disappointed when I wake up. There must be some undoubted driving repression in me, though can't do much to sort that out now.

slowtrain
30-05-2011, 06:03 AM
Haha, I've not had this dream but then I've never really driven much - it's apparently pretty common. Reminds me of a great xkcd cartoon:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/brain_worms.png

Ha! I'd even seen that before - never twigged though.

I've been having them forever.

Sick Boy
30-05-2011, 07:18 AM
It's funny this thread just got resurrected because last night I had one of the most horrifying dreams I've ever had. I was dreaming about lucid dreaming. So in my dream, I'd fall asleep and start lucid dreaming but I'd be unable to wake myself up (into the first dream), and then when I finally was able to "wake up" I'd find out I had committed horrible atrocities sleep-walking. Then I'd fall asleep in the dream again, and my lucid dream-in-a-dream would be all the more horrible because I'd be certain I was walking around doing terrible things while desperately trying to wake up.

baboon2004
30-05-2011, 11:32 AM
It's funny this thread just got resurrected because last night I had one of the most horrifying dreams I've ever had. I was dreaming about lucid dreaming. So in my dream, I'd fall asleep and start lucid dreaming but I'd be unable to wake myself up (into the first dream), and then when I finally was able to "wake up" I'd find out I had committed horrible atrocities sleep-walking. Then I'd fall asleep in the dream again, and my lucid dream-in-a-dream would be all the more horrible because I'd be certain I was walking around doing terrible things while desperately trying to wake up.

had similar experiences - can't remember the medical term for it though, annoyingly enough. terrifying indeed....

Edit: will come back to this thread, but pushed for time now. Anyone had insights into subconscious from their dreams that they've successfully brought into their conscious (thru remmebring/thining about dreams) and made their life better as a result? It's what I'm trying to do at present - many of my dreams centre around betrayal.... :)

muser
30-05-2011, 12:46 PM
Ive had a few reccuring dreams, never consecutively but I have had the car one quite a few times. Another one is trying to hit someone but having no strength to have an effect, kind of like trying to move your arms underwater, which is meant to be to do with frustration.
Had quite a few where lots of insects seem to start appearing in the dream, like waking up to seeing the room full of bugs. Also get dreams about what im going to eat later on in the day quite alot aswell ha.

faustus
30-05-2011, 12:55 PM
I have the car one but it's always about driving in another country on the wrong side of the road, traffic keeps coming towards me because I'm on the left.

DannyL
30-05-2011, 05:01 PM
had similar experiences - can't remember the medical term for it though, annoyingly enough. terrifying indeed....

Edit: will come back to this thread, but pushed for time now. Anyone had insights into subconscious from their dreams that they've successfully brought into their conscious (thru remmebring/thining about dreams) and made their life better as a result? It's what I'm trying to do at present - many of my dreams centre around betrayal.... :)

Yeah, quite a lot. Reacting to stress dreams -often train journeys that never end - taking note of them, and destressing as a result. A series of dreams made me aware of feelings about my parents that shaped attitudes to authority, and again just being conscious of that helped. I've also the odd sensation of been told stuff quite explicitly in dreams - by which I mean a clear spoken sentence from a dream character - and being flung awake immediately, with the message ringing in my head.

Mr. Tea
30-05-2011, 05:16 PM
I should imagine the "can't control the car" dream is a variant on the "haven't prepped for the exam"/"haven't learnt my lines"-type dream. I'm sure you all know what I mean.

baboon2004
31-05-2011, 01:01 AM
Yeah, quite a lot. Reacting to stress dreams -often train journeys that never end - taking note of them, and destressing as a result. A series of dreams made me aware of feelings about my parents that shaped attitudes to authority, and again just being conscious of that helped. I've also the odd sensation of been told stuff quite explicitly in dreams - by which I mean a clear spoken sentence from a dream character - and being flung awake immediately, with the message ringing in my head.

Seems like your subconscious is doing a lot of good work - I'd say that's really healthy, as you say yourself

slowtrain
31-05-2011, 03:55 AM
It's funny this thread just got resurrected because last night I had one of the most horrifying dreams I've ever had. I was dreaming about lucid dreaming. So in my dream, I'd fall asleep and start lucid dreaming but I'd be unable to wake myself up (into the first dream), and then when I finally was able to "wake up" I'd find out I had committed horrible atrocities sleep-walking. Then I'd fall asleep in the dream again, and my lucid dream-in-a-dream would be all the more horrible because I'd be certain I was walking around doing terrible things while desperately trying to wake up.

I had one last night, was nowhere near as complex as yours but I remember distinctly at one point, this character had done an artwork that was really successful and I remember thinking about the best way in which I (he in my dream?) would describe it (i.e, did it sell quick or was it a 'big thing'..) in the dream - as if I was dreaming about me creating something literally. (Not explicitly dreaming about dreaming, but the next closest thing I suppose.)

Hopefully it means I'm on the right track towards lucid dreaming.

P.S, wonderful thread.

BareBones
01-06-2011, 02:47 PM
I only ever remember horrible dreams or nightmares. I'm sure I must've had these impossibly cool or sexy dreams where i'm saving the world and sleeping with beyonce, but I never remember anything like that - only the scary or disturbing ones. Even the most banal situations take on an element of horror in my dreams. I once had one where I was taking off a jumper, but got it stuck over my head with my arms trapped half-in the sleeves. At first it was just this casual annoyance, but the more I tried to get out of it the more firmly I was stuck in there, to the point where i was in this frenzied panic, twisting and fighting to get it off my head, for what seemed to go on for days. I can't remember how it ended. A totally stupid dream, but it felt genuinely terrifying. I've also had a nightmare about being chased through hyde park by a giant soul-eating statue that only i could see.

DannyL
04-06-2011, 06:54 PM
Seems like your subconscious is doing a lot of good work - I'd say that's really healthy, as you say yourself

Thanks. I'm seeing a therapist at the moment (not 'cos I'm especially mad/depressed/ill, but because I'm interested in the process) and the dreams really seem to lead the process sometimes. Very interesting. I think they are so "responsive" in part 'cos I've paid attention to them for some long, kept a dream diary for ages etc.

baboon2004
05-06-2011, 02:09 PM
Thanks. I'm seeing a therapist at the moment (not 'cos I'm especially mad/depressed/ill, but because I'm interested in the process) and the dreams really seem to lead the process sometimes. Very interesting. I think they are so "responsive" in part 'cos I've paid attention to them for some long, kept a dream diary for ages etc.

ah, thought you might be, reading between the lines. me too, really good init? :cool:

I'm gonna start a dream diary this week. Was talking to a woman yesterday who's a screenwriter (and ghostwriter - though she couldn't tell me straight up, from what she said she def ghostwrote either Jodie Marsh's or Jordan's biography, or one of them at least!), and she kept a dictaphone beside her bed in order to write a novel from her dreams/half-dreams. Apparently she got some crazy shit from it, and couldn't afterwards remember a lot of the times she'd been talking into the dictaphone.

DannyL
05-06-2011, 10:27 PM
Yeah, it is :)

...though with me and dreams, it's a pr-therapy thing. I've played with lots of magic(k)al stuff, like sigils (writing your dream intention out, turning it into a nonsene word/mantra and chanting it as you go to sleep) since I was a teenager so that kinda primed me. I've also had sleep paralysis on and off since then as well which piqued me interest in altered states and so on. Used to bug the shit out of me but it happened so much that I began to use it to explore dreaming and lucid states. Fun stuff.

The idea that Jodie Marsh's biography might be half-channeled from the oneiric realms pleases me immensely.

Burroughs talks somewhere about getting at least half of his writing and plots from his dreams. Can anyone remember where he says this? It's really interesting.

slowtrain
06-06-2011, 04:29 AM
Burroughs talks somewhere about getting at least half of his writing and plots from his dreams. Can anyone remember where he says this? It's really interesting.

Not sure exactly but I know Burroughs published his dream diary. Think it's called "My Education" or something like that. (I've not read it)

I keep one, and I've definitely gotta admit it is brilliant for narratives, and details and that sort of thing. I think it also helps a huge amount that writing obscure things in it at two a.m. means when you go back to read through, you are having to 'struggle' through two layers - the memory of the dream and what you actually wrote (both of which almost never make sense or seem to fit together a few days later.)

As an aside, I'd love to get into ghostwriting.

DannyL
06-06-2011, 09:48 AM
Thanks man. I found the essay I was looking for - it's called "Freud and the Unconscious" and it's in The Adding Machine (which is a tremedous book), just a paragraph:
:
For me, dreams are extremely useful professionally. I get perhaps half my sets and characters from dreams. Occasionally, I find a book or paper in dreams and read a whole chapter or short story... Wake up, make a few notes, sit down at the typewriter the next day and copy from a dream book.
I think you're right about the resonances in dream diaries and transcripts.I don't tend to read mine back but maybe I should get into the habit.

Was flicking through this Burroughs book last night and he shows a clear fascination with material from "beyond the Wall of Sleep" - Raudive tapes, trance transcripts, "The Last Words of Dutch Schultz" etc. I guess cut-ups etc. fall into this for him, being non-linear texts which "reveal".

mistersloane
06-06-2011, 11:53 AM
I remember liking AJJJ Ratcliffe's book on dreaming :

http://www.amazon.com/History-Dreams-J-Ratcliff/dp/0766129020#reader_0766129020

when I was more into remembering dreams.

Good tip for lucid dreaming is to take a lick of salt before you go to bed, you will invariably dream about being thirsty, and at that point you can take the lick of salt as having been a mnenomic for waking yourself inside your dream; you'll realise that you're dreaming at that point.

It worked for me but then I kinda realised after having done the fun stuff - flying, being invisible, being naughty - that I didn't really want to control my dreams. I like them being out of my control.

slowtrain
07-06-2011, 12:33 AM
Thanks man. I found the essay I was looking for - it's called "Freud and the Unconscious" and it's in The Adding Machine (which is a tremedous book), just a paragraph:
:
For me, dreams are extremely useful professionally. I get perhaps half my sets and characters from dreams. Occasionally, I find a book or paper in dreams and read a whole chapter or short story... Wake up, make a few notes, sit down at the typewriter the next day and copy from a dream book.
I think you're right about the resonances in dream diaries and transcripts.I don't tend to read mine back but maybe I should get into the habit.

Was flicking through this Burroughs book last night and he shows a clear fascination with material from "beyond the Wall of Sleep" - Raudive tapes, trance transcripts, "The Last Words of Dutch Schultz" etc. I guess cut-ups etc. fall into this for him, being non-linear texts which "reveal".

Yeah, I don't read mine regularly - but it's fun to flick through when you're at a blank.

Slightly OT, but on that Burroughs note - I always really enjoyed that bit in Cities of the Red Night where the detective makes recordings of all the sounds the victims would have heard in the lead up to his death, just recording toilet flushing, waves on the beach, restaraunt noise; then mixing it up with anything else he found interesting - none of it in any particular order. The idea of sort of recording a potential dreamscape. I've used this technique with audiobooks for essays a few times....


mistersloane - that salt tip sounds great, will try remember test it out tonight.

Sectionfive
27-02-2012, 03:56 PM
Dream last night that Rodigan emailed saying he was coming to Galway to clash me after I took the piss out of him online.

I was in a fucking panic lol

Corpsey
27-02-2012, 04:50 PM
Dream last night that Rodigan emailed saying he was coming to Galway to clash me after I took the piss out of him online.

I was in a fucking panic lol

LOL

DannyL
27-02-2012, 05:19 PM
Rodigan = astral travllin' OG badman.

TRACK YOU DOWN ANYWHERE. NUH SOUND SAFE.

Sectionfive
27-02-2012, 07:05 PM
Badman nuh troll Rodigan