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View Full Version : Iraq War the most foolish in 2,014 years



HMGovt
29-11-2005, 06:01 PM
The most misguided military action since 9 B.C. according to Martin van Creveld, a professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem and one of the world's foremost military historians.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1653454,00.html

DYNAMITE!

Woebot
01-12-2005, 08:45 AM
The most misguided military action since 9 B.C. according to Martin van Creveld, a professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem and one of the world's foremost military historians.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1653454,00.html

DYNAMITE!

ouch

droid
01-12-2005, 10:14 AM
I dunno - lodsa relevant points, but it boils down to the classic 'mainstream dove' argument about most failed US interventions - ie: it was wrong tactically, not in principle.

No mention of soveriegnty, aggression or international law, nothing regarding the so called 'right' of one state to invade another for its own geo-political aims (and under false pretences).

Its basically a repeat of how conservative US opinion shifted during the Vietnam war - essentially its a criticism of the tactics of the war, and not the war itself...

Paul Hotflush
02-12-2005, 12:14 PM
I wouldn't exactly describe that article as "dynamite"... How about "damp squib"?

HMGovt
02-12-2005, 12:35 PM
I wouldn't exactly describe that article as "dynamite"... How about "damp squib"?

A damp squib? Unless you're one of the lunatic 33% (and falling) who approve of Bush, that's a good description of his ludicrous Iraq war speech this week. "STAY THE COURSE! WE'RE TURNING THE CORNER! SADDAMISTS!" - it was pathetic.

So little wonder his handlers only put him in front of a military audiences these days. It's the only way to guarantee no dissent or booing from the audience.

Omaar
02-12-2005, 03:21 PM
Did anyone read rumsfeld's justification of why insurgents in iraq should be described as terrorists rather than insurgents that was reported this week? I'll have a look for it and post it up later ...

Omaar
06-12-2005, 09:10 AM
Rumsfeld - `This is a group of people who don't merit the word `insurgency,''' he said Tuesday. ``I think that you can have a legitimate insurgency in a country that has popular support and has a cohesiveness and has a legitimate gripe. These people don't have a legitimate gripe.''

“Over the weekend, I thought to myself, ‘You know, that gives them a greater legitimacy than they seem to merit,’ ” Rumsfeld, at a Pentagon briefing Tuesday, said of his ban on the I-word. “It was an epiphany,” he added, throwing his hand in the air.

tryptych
06-12-2005, 05:52 PM
I wouldn't exactly describe that article as "dynamite"... How about "damp squib"?

This sort of "argument" reminds me of a favourite Onion column....

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34144

:p

Pearsall
12-12-2005, 02:27 PM
more foolish than Operation Barbarossa?

droid
13-12-2005, 12:24 PM
Yes

Pearsall
13-12-2005, 12:43 PM
You've got to be fucking shitting me.

Have you ever even read about the Eastern Front?

The Nazis lost millions of men in the East, and saw East Prussia completely disemboweled (and lost to Germany forever), 12 million ostdeutsch expelled, millions of German women raped by the Red Army, much of their country smashed to smithereens, and the whole eastern chunk of Germany seized by Stalin for fifty years of Communism.

I'm just unclear as to how the fallout of America's Iraq War is going to top that.

droid
13-12-2005, 12:53 PM
You've got to be fucking shitting me.

Have you ever even read about the Eastern Front?

The Nazis lost millions of men in the East, and saw East Prussia completely disemboweled (and lost to Germany forever), 12 million ostdeutsch expelled, millions of German women raped by the Red Army, much of their country smashed to smithereens, and the whole eastern chunk of Germany seized by Stalin for fifty years of Communism.

I'm just unclear as to how the fallout of America's Iraq War is going to top that.


:confused:

Youve been waiting for someone to say that - havent you? :D

I was taking the piss! Just 'baiting the rightists'... you should understand that.

Plus - I think your comparing apples and oranges - Barbarossa was part of the larger campaign of the occupation of Europe - this guy clearly refers to the 'most foolish war' - not 'the most foolish campaign during a war' - otherwise Gallipoli would be a strong contender...

Pearsall
13-12-2005, 01:59 PM
Of course I understand! It's all fun and games. :)

Fair point about apples and oranges, but really, Hitler's entire war has to be considered considerably more foolish than the Iraq Attaq (which I'm not defending, btw). Obviously, long term it was better for Germany to get smooshed and then rebuilt, but if he had wanted to stay in power it was pretty stupid.

droid
13-12-2005, 02:09 PM
Of course I understand! It's all fun and games. :)

Fair point about apples and oranges, but really, Hitler's entire war has to be considered considerably more foolish than the Iraq Attaq (which I'm not defending, btw). Obviously, long term it was better for Germany to get smooshed and then rebuilt, but if he had wanted to stay in power it was pretty stupid.

I dunno. He nearly won after all... strategically speaking his plans were fairly sound - at the beginning of the war at least.

bassnation
13-12-2005, 03:26 PM
I dunno. He nearly won after all... strategically speaking his plans were fairly sound - at the beginning of the war at least.

can't we agree that war as an idea and an activity is foolish, full stop?

peace, maaaan.