Can UK Hip Hop/Grime Blow Up In The States?

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Poisonous Dart

Lone Swordsman
As a lifelong American Hip Hop head I'm curious to know if anyone here thinks that either UK Hip Hop or Grime can ever blow up overseas? Please explain why or why not in detail. Also, if you'd prefer for it NOT TO explain why as well. Are Americans too ignorant or arrogant in your opinion to embrace a form of music that they didn't create themselves? What if Americans took a shine to it and started making their OWN brand of Grime? Present your points of view and we can get a serious dialogue jumping off. One.
 
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Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
No

The biggest it could ever hope to get is the same status as Dancehall where artists are featured on remixes and certain tracks might get played.
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
no. hip-hop is incredibly insular in the US - i doubt you could ever sell it back to the americans the same way british artists did with rock n roll. you might get american producers like lil jon giving props to dizzee or whoever but thats about as far as its gonna go i think. when it comes to rapping, the americans have it on lock really. they arent going to let anyone in. the core hip hop audience in the US doesnt accept 'outside' takes on their music. you *might* get a few collabs like you had krs one working with goldie and redman working with roni size but i definitely cant see many US MCs working with UK MCs cos whenever you rap, its always gonna get compared to them, especially if you do it on beats that resemble stateside rap (cough *kano/roll deep* cough). this doesnt include dancehall cos dancehall has its own well established tradition that dates back well before hip hop and ive never heard anyone in my life say dancehall DJs are simply apeing US rappers - for one thing all the patois and cultural references makes it far too JA-specific. if grime does get embraced in the US, its gonna be with the same type of audience that was into tricky, the streets, jungle, UKG, etc etc.
 
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Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
And secondly, unlike Dancehall and Reggaeton, there is a non-existant immigrant community in NY to whom "Grime" is a culture they recognise.
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
grime will need to blow on some level in the UK first before it can be sold to any other country

as for uk hip hop, that has even less chance of that 'blowing up' in the US, but there have been quite a few underground rappers from the US working with UK producers (you dont have to be outed as a brit if youre behind the boards) and even UK rappers here and there in the past few years
 
outraygeous

outraygeous

Well-known member
Lars Ullrich said:
It's all nigger shit, man. Who the fuck is going to listen to more nigger shit apart from the faggots? You know what I'm sayin'?
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what a dan, big this dude up.. i swear kids aint broke up for xmas yet?
 
T

the undisputed truth

Banned
if the states is anything like how we hear music in NZ...

...then grime might have some novelty value and the attitude is comparable to hiphop but I for one just can't get past the accent

as for UK hiphop it's like selling ice to eskimos...
 
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Poisonous Dart

Lone Swordsman
It can happen!

I'm a hip hop head who has boys from London/UK and I've been into international hip hop since the early 90's (I've ran a couple of record stores in my time as well so I'm a music/culture student). As a kid who grew up during the Golden Ages Of Hip Hop (1986-1989) & (1992-1996) the whole UK speed garage/two step scene/musical aesthetic I was not feeling AT ALL. The Drum n' Bass sound made a little headway in the late 90's (Massive Attack, Tricky, Goldie, etc.) into the US but then it died. Starting around 2001 Grime/Eski started coming out and it sounded a lot more hip hop/reggae/calypso/socaish and it started taking off over in London and the into the UK and later it spread into Europe.

I've tested some joints out here in Boston by just throwing it on in cats whips or playing it in different settings and heads were open to it and asking what/who it was and nodding their heads to it like crazy. It all depends on WHAT tracks you play, though...rap fans aren't trying to hear anything too weird or experimental. You gotta start them out with Wiley, Kano, Dizzie Razkal, Roll Deep, Lethal Bizzle & Fire Camp, Jammer, Earz, Bruza, Crazy Titch, Kray Twinz, Mitchell Bros and Durrty Goodz. Mix in some Klashnekoff, Genesis Elijah, Kyza and Skoreseezy to keep the hip hop heads interested. Watch what happens...heads will start LOOKING for more of these joints ON THEIR OWN..(whether through filesharing apps or mixtapes or by buying import CD's). Think about it. If heads in the EAST started listening to Crunk music, Miami Booty Bass, and Chopped & Screwed joints then THIS isn't that much of a stretch in my opinion (plus it's much better lyrically and 75% of the time, musically as well).

As for the hip hop audience not being to get past accents, think about this, REGGAETON IS POPULAR AS HELL WITH ENGLISH SPEAKERS! Reggae and and other Carribean music forms get played on urban radio rotations with hip hop and R & B now...if Funkmaster Flex or any other respected DJ threw a Kano, Klashnekoff, Lethal B, Fire Camp or Roll Deep song in a mix show the people would most def feel it. The same reason Dipset and other crews are moving units in America is the same reason Grime is spreading in the UK. As for being teritorial, insular or provincial...those things happen EVERYWHERE. In New York, Boston, London, Paris, Perth and everywhere in between. One.
 
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Dubquixote

Submariner
Poisonous Dart said:
...if Funkmaster Flex or any other respected DJ threw a Kano, Klashnekoff, Lethal B, Fire Camp or Roll Deep song in a mix show the people would most def feel it.
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I heard Cipha Sound play the Forward riddim on Hot 97 about a year ago. Not even Pow but the one with Kardinal Offishal on it. Let's just say I never heard it again.

I'm incredibly curious to hear what Hova has up his sleeves for Lady Sov. If he wasn't involved I would immediately write her off as making the same career-ending mistake that many other underground garage artists have made in the past: abandoning their sound altogether to try and crossover onto American urban radio. If 'Hoodie' is any indication it looks like they're going to try and market her like a British Gwen Stefani or something. Which will fail. But like I said, I give Jay Z a lot of respect as a businessman so it'll be interesting to see how that pans out.
 
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Poisonous Dart

Lone Swordsman
Mistake?

Dubquixote said:
I heard Cipha Sound play the Forward riddim on Hot 97 about a year ago. Not even Pow but the one with Kardinal Offishal on it. Let's just say I never heard it again.

I'm incredibly curious to hear what Hova has up his sleeves for Lady Sov. If he wasn't involved I would immediately write her off as making the same career-ending mistake that many other underground garage artists have made in the past: abandoning their sound altogether to try and crossover onto American urban radio. If 'Hoodie' is any indication it looks like they're going to try and market her like a British Gwen Stefani or something. Which will fail. But like I said, I give Jay Z a lot of respect as a businessman so it'll be interesting to see how that pans out.
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I would have bet big on Kano or Roll Deep (available now that their deal is done with their former label) instead of Sov. I've heard her ENTIRE catalog and she blew because of the success of Ch-Ching! and her diss of that chick Jentina. Her songs are too hook heavy and the music is too weird to blow in America with her UK releases (Random, Tango, 9 To 5, etc.). That is why Jay will put her with Missy Elliott, Pharrell, Timbaland, etc. and reign her in so her verses are longer with more content and the beats are less scattershot but the hooks can stay the same...another barrier is that her voice has to be heard above the tracks. She can't get away with joints like Fiddle With The Volume or Midget in the States....and Jay knows this as well.

The ignorance of American audiences prevents many joints from being played...I play joints in my boy's car and people walk up to his whip like "What's that?!". If Cipha Sounds played it 3 times in a day and another joint 3 times the next people would feel it....people HATED Laffy Taffy at first...now they're DANCING to it...WTF? One.
 
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petergunn

plywood violin
Logan Sama said:
No

The biggest it could ever hope to get is the same status as Dancehall where artists are featured on remixes and certain tracks might get played.
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Logan Sama said:
And secondly, unlike Dancehall and Reggaeton, there is a non-existant immigrant community in NY to whom "Grime" is a culture they recognise.
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this is the correct answer. basically, with hard work and luck and it could reach the level of an accepted fringe dweller, which is not bad.

basically, it will be a top down thing, not a bottom up, as there is no community to build it from the bottom. but, if a timbaland (doing beats for M.I.A., i hear...), neptunes, jay z, 50 cent, lil jon level person featured someone on a remix, it could blow them up overnight.

if Timbaland could give Bubba Sparx's goofy ass a hit with "Ugly", it's not inconcievable to think Kano or Dizzee could get one... but, would it still be grime then?
 
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secretagentgel

Well-known member
i'm more into the dubstep side of things, but i think dubstep has hope. it's getting mixed in with breakcore, ragga, jungle, industrial, etc. by dj's who "know". it's got idm "producer" cred, but it's hard enough to bring out the screwface on the dancefloor. i think it's here to stay. which isn't to say it'll ever get popular, but it's cool that it's already made it's way across.

corey
 
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Poisonous Dart

Lone Swordsman
What If....

What if kids/heads in the US started MAKING Grime/Eski tracks? If that started happening, THEN do you think it would be possible for it to make headway in the States? Secondly, would Brits be offended if Americans made their own brand of Garage/Eski/Grime music? One.
 
D

DJL

i'm joking
Poisonous Dart said:
What if kids/heads in the US started MAKING Grime/Eski tracks? If that started happening, THEN do you think it would be possible for it to make headway in the States? Secondly, would Brits be offended if Americans made their own brand of Garage/Eski/Grime music? One.
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Hope they do. The internet has broken down how new music gets started now.
 
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Poisonous Dart

Lone Swordsman
Yeah

Imagine if technology like we have today existed back in the South Bronx in 1972-1976 during the early days of Hip Hop much the way it did during the evolution of UKG/Eski/Grime from 2001-2005? The spread of the music wouldn't have needed the Wild Style and Kitchen Tours to really spread the culture to Europe and Asia. One.
 
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Poisonous Dart

Lone Swordsman
Forillion?

A lot of Londoners have e-mailed and told me in order for Grime to blow in the US it FIRST has to blow in the UK. I've had people tell me that they prefer Broken Beat to Grime. Some have said that all Grime/Eski is to them is noise that is terribly inferior to UK Hip Hop...I feel there's space for both. Anyone else have an opinion? One.
 
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Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Grime is street music for street people. It is a social phenomenon like Punk was in the 70s. An entire generation of kids in London within a certain demographic have pretty much all decided they want to be MCs. Some will be slightly more open to technology and will be the ones downloading fruity loops and making beats for their 5 mates to spit on.

It is a reflection of the culture for a big group of people in London and across the UK right now who don't really have much say in what happens in this country apart from appearing in The Sun newspaper as "Hoodies". If it can be used as a platform to not only give these kids a voice that is heard, but also conversely as a tool to help them become more useful members of society and improve their attitudes and opinions of the rest of the people the inhabit this island with, I will be happy that it has done its job.

However if it just becomes a tool for about a dozen people to get 6 figure deals and then piss off and leave everyone else poor, disillusioned and angry at everyone then this country will continue it's downward spiral and turn into an even more uncontrollable class-divided nation than the states. Crystal Meth is already starting to appear in national papers as a problem, crack has been a problem since the mid Eighties. Gun Crime is on the up.

Rather than "making it big", I would rather Grime simply made a difference.
 
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Poisonous Dart

Lone Swordsman
Exactly!

Logan Sama said:
Grime is street music for street people. It is a social phenomenon like Punk was in the 70s. An entire generation of kids in London within a certain demographic have pretty much all decided they want to be MCs. Some will be slightly more open to technology and will be the ones downloading fruity loops and making beats for their 5 mates to spit on.

It is a reflection of the culture for a big group of people in London and across the UK right now who don't really have much say in what happens in this country apart from appearing in The Sun newspaper as "Hoodies". If it can be used as a platform to not only give these kids a voice that is heard, but also conversely as a tool to help them become more useful members of society and improve their attitudes and opinions of the rest of the people the inhabit this island with, I will be happy that it has done its job.

However if it just becomes a tool for about a dozen people to get 6 figure deals and then piss off and leave everyone else poor, disillusioned and angry at everyone then this country will continue it's downward spiral and turn into an even more uncontrollable class-divided nation than the states. Crystal Meth is already starting to appear in national papers as a problem, crack has been a problem since the mid Eighties. Gun Crime is on the up.

Rather than "making it big", I would rather Grime simply made a difference.
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Logan, that's EXACTLY the way I feel about Hip Hop and it's surrounding culture...also my definition of "blowing up" is meaning that it's an art form that is recognized, accepted and embraced in the States the same way Hip Hop is in the UK. All you can ask of urban music is to bring hope to the underclass and to give podiums and bullhorns to the unheard and be the same motivating factor the any music has become in the lives of so many urban youth worldwide...

I don't equate success or "blowing up" with sales or monetary gain...I'm a pure Hip Hop fan. I usually buy underground/indie releases because I'm pretty much disgusted with the crap that they brainwash/indoctrinate the masses with...I REFUSE TO SHAKE MY LAFFY TAFFY!! I WOULDN'T EVEN DO IT IF I KNEW EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS!! LOL.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Just know that there are heads over in Boston and New York playing Madden with the sound down while playing Kano, Lethal B and Fire Camp, Crazy Titch, Wiley and Roll Deep joints. I read your blog as well. I'll send you some material from my independent Hip Hop label, Hellfire Club Inc./Hellsenda Productions so you can know exactly where I'm coming from with this whole thread. One.
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
sad to say, if most people in the *UK* are gonna compare grime MCs to hip hop MCs (or at least rate them on a value system thats been established according to a model/standard set by american rappers), what makes you think americans arent gonna do the same? it would be nice to think americans will take to this alien version of hip hop, but hip hop almost always puts the barriers up when outsiders are in the vicinity, i dont think it will make an exception for grime - from what i read in vice, the black music press over in the US like vibe and the source expressed absolutely no interest in covering the music, and even they did articles in the 90s on garage and jungle (i remember greg tate was BIG supporter of drum & bass)
 
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SIZZLE

gasoline for haters
"Originally Posted by Poisonous Dart
What if kids/heads in the US started MAKING Grime/Eski tracks? If that started happening, THEN do you think it would be possible for it to make headway in the States? Secondly, would Brits be offended if Americans made their own brand of Garage/Eski/Grime music? One."

Matt Shadetek here. I am one of the kids from the states producing grime tunes (although living mostly in Berlin these days). I've done two tunes with NYC based vocalists, one "Brooklyn" with Two Sevens Klash (producer of Scallawah riddim) and his boy Jahdan, I've been getting a good response to it wherever I play it. I played it to Jammer, Skepta and a few other kids who were in Jam's basement and they were like "yeah, he's repping his ends, that's cool". I don't think they're offended that I am making grime. In fact I found the opposite to be true, most of the grime heads I've met in LDN are surprised that I as an american am producing grime but in a positive way and have been real cool, interested and helpful.

As far as it making an impact stateside so far the main entrance vector has been the hipster/trendy group. They picked up on Dizzee and want more like it. Baile Funk has also caught on with this demographic, a style which shares a bit with grime and one might even argue is more improbable since the lyrics are not in english. But Logan is right, because there aren't a lot of british heads in the US there will never be the kind of hardcore grassroots urban support that dancehall or reggaeton has. I wouldn't be surprised if given time though there could develop a niche for it in the hiphop worlld, as the tolerance for other accents and cultures increases to include other regional styles. Especially if someone like Jay Z would push someone a bit more urban credible/marketable than Sovereign. I think if the idea that this is hood, gangsta music from another country could be properly conveyed it would be easier. People like Sov and MIA won't make that easier tho...

Keep in mind though, ten years ago in New York people would make fun of me for listening to Outkast or any southern rap besides the Geto Boys and now look how that's changed.
 
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