It basically just took a hundred years for comics to become good

francesco

Minerva Estassi
I use as a thread title a phrase taken from alo here to express some Dissensus.
As much as i love Ware, Clowes, Tomine, Moore, Morrison and a few others, comics have always been good, actually more good than now:
Ignatz, Segar, Little Nemo, Eisner, Kirby, Ditko, Lee, Buscema, Go Nagai Devilmen, Osamu Tezuka, Plastic Man, Doom Patrol (the original), Bob Kane, The Peanuts, Carl Barks and at least a hundred of others Writers, Pencilers and Opuses.

Your favorite?
 
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alo

Well-known member
Yeah, tongue in cheek a bit there francesco, sorry, just got a bit excited. But its about time there was a comics thread on here for sure.

What i was poking at (insubstantially) was that considering how long the medium has been around (far longer than cinema for instance) its been a hard long slog for them to be taken seriously in most circles. And it struck me that it was strange that audiences are currently praising the serious undertakings of the most outlandish, pulpish, pre-pubescent and sensational elements of comic history, that of the super-heroes. Spidey, Batman, X-Men etc. Of course, Ghost World, American Spendor, Crumb are all brilliant, but as K-Punk rightly points out in his Batman Begins piece: Dark is the new cliche. Perhaps those last three films mark a veering off point of some kind, Clowes is currently making Art School Confidential based off an old short strip for instance. Who knows?

Faves: Spidey, Hey Wait.../ The Iron Wagon by Jason, Preacher, V for Vendetta, Crumb, The Mighty Golem, Box Office Poison, Hate, Stray Bullets, (my mate and soon to be comics legend Steve Knowles and) 5 Days Out Of 7, and of course, Eightball, Acme, and Optic Nerve.

I just think those three have really pushed things wide open in terms of possibilities. I remember the only reason we ever used to go to the comic shop was to pick up Jimmy Corrigan because it looked so great for the time, and was so weird. Just the attention to detail and humour in the opening, meticulous text alone was enough to make it great, let alone the rest of it, and let alone before it was compiled so i could make sense of the main story. Like a £3.50 work of art that had more pertinent observations on life than any thing in an art gallery. What all of those comics have in common is the devasting silences: The emotional explosions loaded by the reader into these gaps that occur between words, and between frames, referring to very specific, but ultimately very real and universal, and mostly very flawed, characters.
 

D84

Well-known member
One of the comic artists who lingers in my mind is Charles Burns. I'm keen to get the new collection of his Black Hole comics (I only got a couple of issues of that from way back).

Some pictures from the web:

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burns_splash.jpg
 

labrat

hot on the heels of love
D84 said:
One of the comic artists who lingers in my mind is Charles Burns. I'm keen to get the new collection of his Black Hole comics (I only got a couple of issues of that from way back).

Some pictures from the web:

02.jpg
03.jpg
01.jpg
burns_splash.jpg

Charles Burns is excellent, I first dicovered him illustrating some Harland Ellison short stories.I think his material (the otherness of teen mores/the dubious limits of adolecent sexuality/ american gothic) shares a lot of common ground with this dissensus fave....
 

alo

Well-known member
I have to admit i'm completely ignorant of Burns but have been meaning to get in to it : Does anyone know if Black Hole is any good. Spied it in a book shop today amongst all the hardback xmas big guns. It certainly looks good.
 
D

droid

Guest
Though I grew up on a steady diet of 2000AD, Marvel and DC, Ive come to the conclusion in recent years that American (and Western comics in general) are, with honourable exceptions (some mentioned above - Moebius = :D ), fairly shit.

IMO the Japanese have the healthiest and most vital comics industry in the world, and whilst there is of course plenty of shit published, IMO, most of the best comics ever written are manga, and the wealth and breadth of subject matter is stunning. The works of Ozamu Tezuka, Leijji Matsumoto, Jiro Taniguchi, Rumiko Takahasi, Kazuo Koike, Kenichi Sonoda and Hideshi Hino (to name but a few) range from profound eon spanning epics to comedy space operas, to historical and religious dramas...

bug1.jpg


bug2.jpg


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sufi

lala
I just devoured this last night

A panel from Joe Sacco's Safe Area Gorazde: The War in Eastern Bosnia 1992-95. said:
I also read his 'Palestine'
he have a good angle, different from most of the sci-fi/fantasy comix cited so far, whichis real life reportage by graphic novel. I reckon it's a good un - although i don't think he's particularly politically motivated or even necessarily committed to any particular cause, but by being a witness to events he does provide a commentary that is much deeper & more engaging than either most comix or indeed most 'current affairs' reportage...
not sure whether that represents evolution of comix tho, one of the medium's strengths is it's ability to portray situations that can't be captured by other media including whatever fantastical sci-fi can posibly be imagined
orselli9gr.jpg
(i also (appreciate he gets the arabic graf correct in 'Palestine' too :cool: )
 

Ness Rowlah

Norwegian Wood
My favourite comics were the "Ardeur" series by the French brothers Alex and Daniel Varenne. Set in a future post-apocalyptic Europe it followed a pilot/soldier travelling through Europe on his big BMW-motorcycle. I cannot read French, but luckily the series were published in Danish as well (but never in English as far as I have found out). Not too heavy on the dialogue, but the drawings were pieces of art (speciality: 3 frames drawing a complete landscape and the storyline moving forwards in the three frames - see also http://www.mat.ucsb.edu/~g.legrady/glWeb/publications/publ_art/textcomix.html for a high-brow reference to their style. Haven't found any proper scans on the web and my Ardeau series is in storage ...)

I like things like Warren Ellis and Alan Moore as well - but the Varenne brothers were the Ballards of comics (seems like they are totally forgotten - apart from in France and apart from Alex's work in erotic comics which seems to have Japanese fans judged after a quick google image search).
 
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hamarplazt

100% No Soul Guaranteed
Two more french masters need mentioning: Nicole Claveloux and Jaques Tardi. Tardi is obsessed with the first world war and Paris in the 1910/20s, a bit like Alan Moore and Victorian London, but is much better (and much less post modern). Claveloux makes these unbelieveable strange and twisted surreal tales, like childrens books, Robert Crumb and early Chester Brown all rolled into one. Oh yeah, Chester Brown needs mentioning too.
 

AshRa

Well-known member
maison-10.jpg


Maison Ikkoku is my favourite comic ever, it's a madly frustrating / funny 'will they or won't they' love story that takes about 14 books to conclude. And every page is magic.
 
D

droid

Guest
AshRa said:
maison-10.jpg


Maison Ikkoku is my favourite comic ever, it's a madly frustrating / funny 'will they or won't they' love story that takes about 14 books to conclude. And every page is magic.

Oh god... LOVE this comic... Cracks me up without fail everytime Mr. Yotsuya sticks his head through the wall into Godai's room

Hey Droid, have you read any of Junji Ito's comics? Specifically GYO and Uzumaki?

Yep - and they are brilliant. Insane claustrophobic Lovecraftian horror. The Uzumaki films aint so bad either..
 
D

droid

Guest
sufi said:
I also read his 'Palestine'
he have a good angle, different from most of the sci-fi/fantasy comix cited so far, whichis real life reportage by graphic novel. I reckon it's a good un - although i don't think he's particularly politically motivated or even necessarily committed to any particular cause, but by being a witness to events he does provide a commentary that is much deeper & more engaging than either most comix or indeed most 'current affairs' reportage...
not sure whether that represents evolution of comix tho, one of the medium's strengths is it's ability to portray situations that can't be captured by other media including whatever fantastical sci-fi can posibly be imagined
orselli9gr.jpg
(i also (appreciate he gets the arabic graf correct in 'Palestine' too :cool: )

Found this link to a new Joe Sacco short story about torture in Iraq:

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2006/01/20/fullsacco1.pdf

And id also like to add my voice to the chorus of praise for Charles Burns' 'Black hole'. Great stuff. Almost Japanese in its textual conciseness. Reminded me a bit of 'Uzumaki' or the 'Hino Horrors' mentioned above.
 
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